Japan 2019 - Pool C - Argentina England France Tonga USA

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 2:27 pm

First topic message reminder :

TeamPlayedWonDrawnLostTriesPFPA+/-BPPoints
England220011801070210
Argentina2101649351426
France110002232124
USA10011745-3800
Tonga200221763-4600

France 23-21 Argentina                  
England 35-3 Tonga      
England 45-7 United States
Argentina 28-14 Tonga       
               


2 October 2019                   France v United States                 Fukuoka Hakatanomori Stadium, Fukuoka
5 October 2019                   England v Argentina                    Tokyo Stadium, Chōfu
6 October 2019                   France v Tonga                            Kumamoto Stadium, Kumamoto
9 October 2019                   Argentina v United States             Kumagaya Rugby Stadium, Kumagaya
12 October 2019                 England v France                         International Stadium Yokohama, Yokohama
13 October 2019                 United States v Tonga                  Hanazono Rugby Stadium, Higashiōsaka


Last edited by LondonTiger on Tue 01 Oct 2019, 9:33 am; edited 2 times in total

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Post by Cyril on Sun 06 Oct 2019, 8:49 pm

Eh?

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Post by miaow on Sun 06 Oct 2019, 9:24 pm

Maesteg's suggesting, as both France and England are qualified, it's possible there might be some fringe players playing for both teams - not so much to avoid the All Blacks, but perhaps to keep them fresh for the QFs. Not sure either team need to do that, or will, but it's a possibility - rare instance where the 2 top ranked teams in the group are already qualified by the time they play each other.

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac on Sun 06 Oct 2019, 9:25 pm

It could be the first time the whole of Wales will support England next week.

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Post by Cyril on Sun 06 Oct 2019, 9:33 pm

Yep, I see that. Wales will want the win to avoid facing England. Must be a difficult support though 😉

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 06 Oct 2019, 9:34 pm

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:It could be the first time the whole of Wales will support England next week.

We wouldn’t mind either. Both teams have the players and the game to negate our strengths. As much as we keep asking which France will turn up, it’s the usual France that will turn up - the one that keeps losing. Not worried about England personally, as they’re still prone to choke in big games, which is what the KO stages are.

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 06 Oct 2019, 10:42 pm

France have fought for the big prize more than any other European Nation. Their latest shot being in 2011 when they lost 2 games in the pools and still only lost by a point in the final against head honchos NZ.
Who did France beat that year in the playoff stages to get there?

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac on Sun 06 Oct 2019, 10:47 pm

SecretFly wrote:France have fought for the big prize more than any other European Nation.  Their latest shot being in 2011 when they lost 2 games in the pools and still only lost by a point in the final against head honchos NZ.
Who did France beat that year in the playoff stages to get there?

Obviously some chokers Wink

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Post by robbo277 on Sun 06 Oct 2019, 11:55 pm

One thing from me about the England vs Argentina game.

On the match thread I, like others, remarked that it was one of Daly's best games at 15.

That being said, when Nowell came on for Watson who was actually playing at 15?

For Nowell's try he was on the wing with Daly one inside, joining the line from deep as he so often does, although the pass to Nowell was a miss pass from inside. But here Daly was clearly at 15 in attack.

However if you look at the previous highlight which was the Argentina try, they broke the line and Nowell was definitely 15 and Daly tracked in from the left wing.

I'm sure against Tonga when the subs came in Slade spent some time at 15 and Daly moved to the wing, but this seemed to happen again this week, for at least one defensive set at any rate.

One to keep an eye on? With Nowell, Watson and to an extent May happy to fill in at full back and Daly also a Lions winger there is a bit of flexibility in there, but what plays they're switching for and why I'm less sure.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 06 Oct 2019, 11:56 pm

Don't think even this France is the old France but its a point. Tonga beat them in 2011 so anythings possible. France are the most difficult of the top sides to work out. All over the place world cup wise. They don't seem to know 'the rules'...

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Post by yappysnap on Mon 07 Oct 2019, 1:49 am

Reading through the threads it doesnt seem like any players actually played well on the weekend. Yet we still won and scored 5 tries.

I guess we'll see against France but it kinda feels that unless England play the perfect game some fans wont be happy.

Personally ill take the wins any which way, great to be through to the knock outs and I personally feel England are playing as well as they can without Care and Brown Wink

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Post by lostinwales on Mon 07 Oct 2019, 2:15 am

yappysnap wrote:Reading through the threads it doesnt seem like any players actually played well on the weekend. Yet we still won and scored 5 tries.

I guess we'll see against France but it kinda feels that unless England play the perfect game some fans wont be happy.

Personally ill take the wins any which way, great to be through to the knock outs and I personally feel England are playing as well as they can without Care and Brown Wink

6 tries.

I think its a case or performance against expectations, especially after Argentina were down to 14. Also we like to see the big name players do their stuff. Billy wasn't playing well, then he got hurt and didn't come out for the 2nd half. Manu just mainly seemed to get used as a decoy, and didn't actually run with the ball much at all. Farrell was indifferent and (mostly) poor with the boot. Add in points from the kicks he missed and that victory gets big.

On the other hand Ford was very good, the chances we made we scored from, and we just didn't need to do anything more. It was very comfortable

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Post by Taylorman on Mon 07 Oct 2019, 2:22 am

agree, Gotta be careful what you think you are taking from pool play too. Argie needed this to stay in, so theres that. You got their best effort, man down or not. On that factor alone Englands looking good, the one to beat for me. Those big names are needed in the knockouts, not in pool.

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Post by Poorfour on Mon 07 Oct 2019, 7:48 am

It feels to me as if powder is still being kept dry. Eddie has the team doing the minimum required to get maximum points.

The strategy seems to be to play a very controlling game in the first half and then open up enough to get the bonus point in the second half. England haven't yet looked anything but in control. We won't really be able to judge them until they face a team that forces them to extend themselves.
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Post by robbo277 on Mon 07 Oct 2019, 8:11 am

I think everyone else had such fun with us crashing out in the pools that they were eagerly anticipating it happening again.

It started against Tonga, England won 35-3 without ever looking uncomfortable and all the chat was around how bad we were. Neither Argentina or France scored more or conceded fewer against the same opposition. France also had a worse score against the US.

Our pool is weird in comparison. We have stronger 3rd, 4th and 5th seeds but possibly the weakest 2nd seed in France. That means there are no blowout 60 point wins and no tense games against a serious contender (i.e. Wales vs Australia, New Zealand vs South Africa). But for the games we've had, we've done all right. We've qualified, score north of 30 each game and only conceded 2 tries and 20 points.

Harder challenges to come but it would be nitpicking to criticise England now.

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Post by Old Man on Mon 07 Oct 2019, 8:43 am

Hard to measure any tier one team against the lower tiers. England can simply focus on retaining their structures, experiment with a few positions, roate their players.

For Eddie Jones it is really a balancing act in keeping everyone match fit and not overused.

The real tests will begin at the quarters.

Perhaps France will be a test.

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Post by Pal Joey on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 7:09 am

Finally Tonga get over the line. Some great lead up play. Unlucky not to score earlier.
The US are getting run off their feet.
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Post by Pal Joey on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 7:13 am

Nice reply from T'eo.

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Post by Pal Joey on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 7:56 am

Another chance blown by Tonga. They should have been well in the lead but those last passes...

Still USA 12-7
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Post by miaow on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 8:07 am

Decent game this. Both teams 'deserve' something from it, so should go to the wire. Nicely matched with USA having the edge, but can't rule out Tonga. Showing some ambition when they break.

55 mins

USA 12-10 Tonga

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Post by Pal Joey on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 8:10 am

Finally back in the lead... Hingano! who has played for my local club. Tonga 17-12


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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 8:10 am

What a great try for Tonga, end to end. Well played. clap clap clap

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Post by miaow on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 8:15 am

Good stuff Tonga.

USA pressing, look like they're going to score, and Tonga hoof it down the other end and take the lead.

Now they've got the USA on the rack, and they can't handle the physicality. Piatau with the try. Popular scorer.

64 mins

12-24 Tonga

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Post by Pal Joey on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 8:15 am

It's opening up now on the scoreboard. 24-12
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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 8:16 am

Looks like Tonga are going to win this game, USA look out on their feet.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 8:38 am

Great, Great win for Tonga.

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Post by miaow on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 8:41 am

Deserved for Tonga. Like the way they've played this torunament. Would have liked to see a bit more of that attack against England but good win in the end. Tough on the US, also played decently, but still a distance away from being a threatening tier 2 nation.

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Post by Pal Joey on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 8:42 am

They pretty much dominated the game... left a few scores out there. USA did their best.
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Post by maestegmafia on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 8:49 am

Close at the end.

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Post by miaow on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 8:57 am

US did well, controlled the game for a lot of it, just no cutting edge.

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