Japan 2019 - Pool D Australia Fiji Georgia Uruguay Wales

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 2:32 pm

First topic message reminder :

TeamPlayedWonDrawnLostTriesPFPA+/-BPPoints
Wales2200872393319
Australia2101964501426
Georgia210174750-315
Uruguay210143760-2304
Fiji200274869-1122



Australia 39 - 21 Fiji  
Wales 43-14 Georgia
Fiji 27-30 Uruguay        
Georgia 33-7 Uruguay                  
Australia 25-29 Wales                    


3 October 2019         Georgia v Fiji                           Hanazono Rugby Stadium, Higashiosaka
5 October 2019         Australia v Uruguay                  Oita Stadium, Ōita
9 October 2019         Wales v Fiji                              Oita Stadium, Ōita
11 October 2019       Australia v Georgia                   Shizuoka Stadium Ecopa, Fukuroi
13 October 2019       Wales v Uruguay                      Kumamoto Stadium, Kumamoto


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Post by miaow on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 1:58 pm

Maybe, but Oz in the autumn internationals is different to at a world cup

2011: 3rd place
2015: runners up

Only NZ have a better RWC record for players still involved, bar the odd player from 2007.

If we consider the possibility that England might do a job on NZ in the semis, then Oz have to be considered one of the favourites. If they beat Wales, get the easier side of the draw, they should be looking at aleast a final.

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Post by BamBam on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 2:06 pm

I'd be shocked if Australia beat any of NZ, SA, England, Ireland or Wales at this tournament. Bigger surprises have happened, but I reckon the bookies would have the Aussies as underdogs against any of those teams

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 2:12 pm

miaow wrote:Maybe, but Oz in the autumn internationals is different to at a world cup

2011: 3rd place
2015: runners up

Only NZ have a better RWC record for players still involved, bar the odd player from 2007.

If we consider the possibility that England might do a job on NZ in the semis, then Oz have to be considered one of the favourites. If they beat Wales, get the easier side of the draw, they should be looking at aleast a final.

In 2015 and 2011 Australia were ranked 2nd in the world going into the RWC though werent they? Their win/loss record was quite good. Its abysmal now and their ranking much lower.

In 2011 they also lost to Ireland. In 2015 they effectively lost to Scotland but for really dodgy refereeing.

Edit: in 2015 it was 5th but their form was much better.


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Post by RiscaGame on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 2:14 pm

BamBam wrote:I'd be shocked if Australia beat any of NZ, SA, England, Ireland or Wales at this tournament. Bigger surprises have happened, but I reckon the bookies would have the Aussies as underdogs against any of those teams

I gather we are favourites for this? I don’t like that Wink

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Post by Old Man on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 2:16 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Wales will win by 2 scores. If they cant beat Oz by this stage they may as well forget about it.

I love how you state these predictions as matter of fact. Nt even a hint of doubt. OK

You must be killing it at the bookies?

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 2:18 pm

Havent got too many wrong so far. Had NZ and Ireland to win fairly comfortably for example.

I predicted Fiji would beat Aus but they may well have if the ref hadnt screwed up so badly.

This one isnt without doubt though. Australia's dreadful win loss record of the last 4 years is matched only by Wales terrible inability to beat Australia.

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Post by ebop on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 2:20 pm

But Australia beat Fiji
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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 2:21 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:If they cant beat Oz by this stage they may as well forget about it.

Yep. I'm not underestimating them, they look pretty strong up front and can play the game at a pace which is difficult to handle.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 2:22 pm

ebop wrote:But Australia beat Fiji

Really? Thanks for that Ebop.

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Post by ebop on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 2:23 pm

Not many people with any knowledge of the game thought Fiji would beat Australia
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Post by BamBam on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 2:27 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
BamBam wrote:I'd be shocked if Australia beat any of NZ, SA, England, Ireland or Wales at this tournament. Bigger surprises have happened, but I reckon the bookies would have the Aussies as underdogs against any of those teams

I gather we are favourites for this? I don’t like that Wink

You are indeed, when I looked earlier in the week it was 3 point favourites, not sure if it's changed since teams were named

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 2:29 pm

Wales are slight favorites according to the bookies and more bets have gone on Wales to win


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Post by Soul Requiem on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 2:30 pm

ebop wrote:Not many people with any knowledge of the game thought Fiji would beat Australia

It was seen as the most likely match to produce a big shock.

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 2:34 pm

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Wales are slight favorites according to the bookies and more bets have gone on Wales to win

How/Where are you seeing that?

Oddschecker seems to have Wales as favourites across all UK bookies.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 2:37 pm

ebop wrote:Not many people with any knowledge of the game thought Fiji would beat Australia

A couple of the pundits on New Zealand's "The Breakdown" rugby show thought Fiji might win that one. Given Fiji were winning up to 60 minutes and the referee failed to send Hodge off when it was later confirmed he should have Id say it was a decent shout.

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 7:41 pm

ebop wrote:Not many people with any knowledge of the game thought Fiji would beat Australia

They didnt so whats your point?

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Post by Pie on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 3:18 am

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Wales are slight favorites according to the bookies and more bets have gone on Wales to win

Well, Howler is free to bet now right Laugh


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Post by Taylorman on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 5:00 am

ebop wrote:Not many people with any knowledge of the game thought Fiji would beat Australia

Who have you got for oz Wales Ebop? The loser gets to dance with England to play us provided we pass Scotland. Think Wales have a better chance of beating England but also think oz could steal this.

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Post by ebop on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 7:22 am

Think I put Wales for the tipping comp but I’m not confident about that at all. Good call looking forward. Aus beats Wales, Wales beat England, we beat Wales, in the final, 3-peat. Sounds pretty straightforward Wink
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Post by miaow on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 2:48 pm

Lol. This didn't age well, did it boys. Looks like you might be getting Schmidted in the QFs if Japan get it done v Scotland.

After seeing Japan beat Ireland by simply moving and holding on to the ball, Wales have to be willing to play tomorrow - as we always knew. Can't just rely on strike moves, need to be willing to feed North et al. in the wide channels and get Australia on the back foot at pace.

This is totally 50:50. I actually think Wales could pump Australia if they really turn up. A good 15-20 point win. But Australia could do the same to Wales, and the more likely result is tight and to the final whistle.

Wales need the win here. Have to get it done. For mindset as much as pathway in the knockouts.

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Post by ebop on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 2:58 pm

Lol, miaow. You didn’t age well at all and by the end of your diatribe I felt like you didn’t have any confidence. Wales, yay.
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Post by Taylorman on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 6:16 pm

Wales are different. They have Gats and he’s more astute than Schmidt when away from home due to the Lions campaigns, which are the closest thing you can get to the World Cup, in terms of intensity, planning, managing players abroad over a period.

It’s oz that are the X factor team here. They could do anything, and between Perth and Eden park they went a 57 point swing the other way in one week vs the same side.

So Wales will be the predictable, self assured side, oz will be all over the place, and are riding high on emotion, feel they have many critics, something Cheika ‘the world is against us’ with the hodge affair, brings on them.

They could bounce back and wreck Wales, and just as easily could get battled. That’s why they’re dangerous. Gumps box of chocolates come into play.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 6:21 pm

miaow wrote:Lol. This didn't age well, did it boys. Looks like you might be getting Schmidted in the QFs if Japan get it done v Scotland.

After seeing Japan beat Ireland by simply moving and holding on to the ball, Wales have to be willing to play tomorrow - as we always knew. Can't just rely on strike moves, need to be willing to feed North et al. in the wide channels and get Australia on the back foot at pace.

This is totally 50:50. I actually think Wales could pump Australia if they really turn up. A good 15-20 point win. But Australia could do the same to Wales, and the more likely result is tight and to the final whistle.

Wales need the win here. Have to get it done. For mindset as much as pathway in the knockouts.

Scotland will probably beat Japan, cos the dynamics have changed. Ireland got slightly ambushed, where Scotland are smack back into reality land, and have to perform, and Japan will be riding a high from the Irish win that will make Joseph’s job difficult to back up vs Scotland.

Wales vs oz, agree, 50/50. It’s real on the day stuff where today one might win, tomorrow the other. Gats is the difference for me. Far stronger than Cheika for this type of match, but oz have the mortgage on unpredictability for this.

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Post by miaow on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 6:50 pm

Cheika's a clown but he masterminded a tactical demolition of the ABs a few weeks ago and took an average, ageing Oz team to a RWC final 4 years ago. You're also placing too much faith/importance in the coaches. Each will have their gameplans they've been working on at the back of their mind for months, it's about execution on the day and the coaches mean f all by this stage. They're not the ones who go out there and play the game.

One of the key battles will be the 10s. If Foley sparks and gets the backline coming on to the ball at the right time, Wales and Biggar could struggle to adapt, but also respond with ball in hand. The 10-12 of Biggar and Parkes is a worry as Parkes is a pretty poor option when the game opens up. Might have gone for Watkin on the bench over Halfpenny because of this, with Parkes able to shift around the backline as a stopgap if necessary, as he was at the Scarlets prior to 2 years ago. God forbid Parkes on the wing though...

But na, coaches don't mean too much at this stage. Mentality is the obvious point of difference and has been for years.

We can draw parallels between captains - AWJ and Hooper both excellent stalwarts who lead by example. Both have special back row talismans in different styles, Tipuric and Pocock - shame Warburton isn't there.

Both have the powerful right winger in North and Koroibete who can be lethal given space. Both have tidy attacking 9s who are up and down in form. Both have mercurial talent - Liam at 15, Beale on the bench - who can change a game.

Very evenly matched. It's all about who turns up on the day and how much Wales truly believe, deep down, they're better than Australia. Wales' worst enemy is Wales first of all, and with AWJ as captain, I think/hope we're a little bit better than our instincts allow us to be. We'll need to be against Australia.

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Post by Old Man on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 6:58 pm

miaow wrote:Cheika's a clown but he masterminded a tactical demolition of the ABs a few weeks ago and took an average, ageing Oz team to a RWC final 4 years ago. You're also placing too much faith/importance in the coaches. Each will have their gameplans they've been working on at the back of their mind for months, it's about execution on the day and the coaches mean f all by this stage. They're not the ones who go out there and play the game.

One of the key battles will be the 10s. If Foley sparks and gets the backline coming on to the ball at the right time, Wales and Biggar could struggle to adapt, but also respond with ball in hand. The 10-12 of Biggar and Parkes is a worry as Parkes is a pretty poor option when the game opens up. Might have gone for Watkin on the bench over Halfpenny because of this, with Parkes able to shift around the backline as a stopgap if necessary, as he was at the Scarlets prior to 2 years ago. God forbid Parkes on the wing though...

But na, coaches don't mean too much at this stage. Mentality is the obvious point of difference and has been for years.

We can draw parallels between captains - AWJ and Hooper both excellent stalwarts who lead by example. Both have special back row talismans in different styles, Tipuric and Pocock - shame Warburton isn't there.

Both have the powerful right winger in North and Koroibete who can be lethal given space. Both have tidy attacking 9s who are up and down in form. Both have mercurial talent - Liam at 15, Beale on the bench - who can change a game.

Very evenly matched. It's all about who turns up on the day and how much Wales truly believe, deep down, they're better than Australia. Wales' worst enemy is Wales first of all, and with AWJ as captain, I think/hope we're a little bit better than our instincts allow us to be. We'll need to be against Australia.

Cheika was fortunate to get to the final in 2015, Scotland was unlucky to lose the QF.

The issues the Wallabies have is they don’t have a tactical kicking game, they rely on ball in hand excursions to exit their 22 and possession retention for them is crucial.

If Wales dominate the set piece (specifically the scrum and breakdown then OZ will play on the back foot.

On attack the Welsh runners must target Pocock to be the tackler, that negates him as the first arrival at the breakdown to pilfer, Australia doesn’t really have another formidable pilferer.

If Wales stick to their structures and Biggar uses his pin point accuracy with the up and unders Australia could be challenged in the air, hence Cheika dropping Beale as his defence and specifically his aerial skills are often found wanting.

Speed wise AAC has lost a yard or two, and although that is likely the Wallabies’ most powerful backline it isn’t that quick.

Wales have the structures to beat OZ, as long as they control the set piece and territory and don’t lose the plot.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 7:23 pm

Whereas I think you’re underestimating the coaches. You said it yourself Joseph ran the Japan side like a well run club side and now you’re saying coaches mean f all.
Once again you have no idea. Schmidt has shown once again he’s inept at managing a side at a World Cup, losing again, already, to an underdog.
On the day its the run on team yes but the effort getting here goes more into today’s match than that, and that’s where Gats is stronger.
Oz, despite Cheika ineptness will and always will be unpredictable, today, and as they have been all year.
For me Wales should win, as Gats and Wales holds more cards across the board, but in oz’s favour is people usually forget to tell them that. They’re more instinctive, passionate, wear their heart on a sleeve type of side. And that’s a dangerous cocktail for any opposition. You can’t rely on predictability, something at the heart of Gatlands ethos.
Of the players Foley needs a strong match, as does Genia. It’s obvious they’re going to kick, and I think that’s a good idea. But in the end oz will either score some freaky tries or they’ll get pumped.
This is as good a side as oz can muster and I think their backline is stronger bar as you say old man AAC but he’ll just run straight and hard all day anyway.
The oz backs bench is sharp with White, Beale...where he should be, and Toomua.

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Post by miaow on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 7:31 pm

Don't disagree with that, Australia were also 'fortunate' to beat Wales in the groups. But they still found a way. Likewise getting to the final itself, and I don't think the tactical job they did on the ABs can be overlooked.

We've seen so far this year that teams can 'turn up' and batter the opposition if/when they really prepare for it. England did it to Ireland in Dublin, Wales to England in Cardiff, SA and Oz did it to NZ in the Rugby Championship. You can guarantee Wales will have a gameplan for Australia, but Australia will likewise have surely recognised that Wales will eventually come good against them, and given the beating they took for most of the game in 2015, they must produce something special to get past them this time. It's why it really could go any way.

As a sidepoint, on that gameplan, Wales have had 12 years of Gatland/Howley. Now is the time to unload the playbook. I've been looking back in the last few weeks at moves me might see, and this move (link below) is one I was certain Wales would use again. So it was interesting to see Wales play the inside switchback from 10 instead of 9 twice against Georgia. Wonder how much we'll see that against Australia's defence, which is much less of a blitz compared to other teams.

But this is the beauty of it. Will Cheika have a gameplan that strikes right at the heart of Wales? You can guarantee Pocock on his own can dismantle Wales' possession gameplan. Navidi and Moriarty will be key in taking him off the ball, and I can see that being the sole reason Navidi has got in ahead of Ross.

Link: https://youtu.be/7E2doKt7-U0?t=336

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Post by miaow on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 7:32 pm

Taylorman wrote:Whereas I think you’re underestimating the coaches.

Yeah but your whole thing is SH good, NH bad. And in this case it's the subcategory of NZ good, Aus bad. It's like the boy who cried wolf. Even if you are making a serious point this time, no-one's going to take you seriously because of your mindset.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 7:39 pm

miaow wrote:Don't disagree with that, Australia were also 'fortunate' to beat Wales in the groups. But they still found a way. Likewise getting to the final itself, and I don't think the tactical job they did on the ABs can be overlooked.

We've seen so far this year that teams can 'turn up' and batter the opposition if/when they really prepare for it. England did it to Ireland in Dublin, Wales to England in Cardiff, SA and Oz did it to NZ in the Rugby Championship. You can guarantee Wales will have a gameplan for Australia, but Australia will likewise have surely recognised that Wales will eventually come good against them, and given the beating they took for most of the game in 2015, they must produce something special to get past them this time. It's why it really could go any way.

As a sidepoint, on that gameplan, Wales have had 12 years of Gatland/Howley. Now is the time to unload the playbook. I've been looking back in the last few weeks at moves me might see, and this move (link below) is one I was certain Wales would use again. So it was interesting to see Wales play the inside switchback from 10 instead of 9 twice against Georgia. Wonder how much we'll see that against Australia's defence, which is much less of a blitz compared to other teams.

But this is the beauty of it. Will Cheika have a gameplan that strikes right at the heart of Wales? You can guarantee Pocock on his own can dismantle Wales' possession gameplan. Navidi and Moriarty will be key in taking him off the ball, and I can see that being the sole reason Navidi has got in ahead of Ross.

Link: https://youtu.be/7E2doKt7-U0?t=336

Yep agree with all that. That ‘find a way’ is certainly what oz are about. Here’s why oz could win. Perth they were underdogs, and bookies have them that here as well. But there’s no sense of urgency on Wales part to beat them as there was when NZ faced oz at Eden park after being beaten at Perth. We had them lined up front and center after the Perth shock.

In that sense oz are sneaking under the radar a bit, and could be dangerous. Imagine Ireland playing Japan again next week. No way would Japan win again, Ireland would bring that extra 10-15% we know they have because of the loss.

I sense the same with this match, and trust me, you don’t want oz in underdog mode. They live happily there, where no one expects them to win.

Watch out Wales, a storm is brewing. Whistle

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Post by alanmackie6 on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 8:29 pm

OZ did a number on Nz with 14 men,next week they were thrashed.think this one will be
close Whistle Whistle Whistle

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Post by miaow on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 8:32 pm

They were outplaying them before the red card. Worked them out at the breakdown and in defence.

That's enough blackness for this thread anyway. Let's get back on topic.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 8:34 pm

Wales vs Australia?

this could go either way, Wales when they get it together can beat any team on the day. Australia? not so sure, think Australia may be a little to much. 

I do not see a being a big scoring game to be honest, 7/10 points making the difference between winning and losing. What ever the result it will be a close fought game.

Am really looking forward to watching this game.

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Post by RiscaGame on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 8:55 pm

Wales need to not get isolated v Pocock. Obviously I love Aaron Wainwright, but it’s a lot of pressure on him tomorrow. I hope he goes well. Tipuric needs a big game too. Ultimately, that might be the difference, that their backrow you would expect to show up, but there’s a lot to prove for ours. It would be great to see Tips really dominate a tight game internationally. I wouldn’t be overly surprised to see Moriarty having to come on fairly soon after halftime, to get Navidi on the flank with Tips.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 8:58 pm

Just thinking of Australia, how much do they/will they  be missing Isreal Faloue ( spelling) Australia all ways seen a dangerous team when he was playing.

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Post by Old Man on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 9:03 pm

Aerially they are much weaker, defensively not really, Folau was a lazy defender.

Attack wise perhaps not I don’t think they have lost much in the physical side of things. Folau did have a knack for running good lines and being in the right place at the right time though

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Post by miaow on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 9:09 pm

Good thing is Pocock looked miles off the pace v Fiji. Bad news is, he'll know that, and that might be all he needs to get back up to pace. Also bad news, Hooper looked fantastic. Standout performer and a constant shining light in a side which flicks on and off far too often.

Agree it'll be a big game for Wainwright. Can't help but feel the plaudits are a touch premature for him - lauding him as the new Warburton etc. He looks like he's got all the skills, but still looks raw in some ways. Tomorrow will be a big test. Navidi to nullify Pocock, Wainwright on Hooper.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 9:12 pm

alanmackie6 wrote:OZ did a number on Nz with 14 men,next week they were thrashed.think this one will be
close Whistle Whistle Whistle

Hi ya Al, yes Oz are highly unstable, and that comes from a Cheika. He’s already gone off at both Fiji and World rugby over Hodge. I honestly he think he brings the attention on himself to take it away from the team. He does it every time pressure is building. I think he genuinely thinks it helps his teams focus, ie if he absorbs the media ‘pain’.

Mind you, that doesn’t explain his awful post match moans. Gotta be the most dreadful public face of Oz rugby...pre Folau, for a while now.

Anyway. I think we’ll see more of the Perth oz than the Eden park Oz.Beale and White off the bench could be the difference for Oz.

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Post by RiscaGame on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 9:33 pm

miaow wrote:Good thing is Pocock looked miles off the pace v Fiji. Bad news is, he'll know that, and that might be all he needs to get back up to pace. Also bad news, Hooper looked fantastic. Standout performer and a constant shining light in a side which flicks on and off far too often.

Agree it'll be a big game for Wainwright. Can't help but feel the plaudits are a touch premature for him - lauding him as the new Warburton etc. He looks like he's got all the skills, but still looks raw in some ways. Tomorrow will be a big test. Navidi to nullify Pocock, Wainwright on Hooper.

Just feel like for all Wainwright does well, he’s a bit off the pace internationally. He fell off a few tackles in the warmups, but that could be due to not being used to playing heavy legged etc. Be interesting to see, but obviously he’s still very raw. I guess it helps that in comparison to Moriarty, he shows up as a more intelligent player.

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Post by alanmackie6 on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 10:04 pm

At the time of the red card the score was only 10-6.NZ actually played better in the second half.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 10:09 pm

Scott barrett red card? 13 12 was the score. To aus.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 10:18 pm

Aus's big forwards and Nic White exploited the ABs one man in the ruck big time, naturally this lead to space out wide, which was sometimes exacerbated by the red card. Hard to tell if it would've been different 15 vs 15. For me, if you take off a flanker then it doesn't really create much more space for the opposition when they still have 15 on the field.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 11:03 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Scott barrett red card? 13 12 was the score. To aus.

The red wasn’t the difference for 21 point loss, the whole side owns that. If Barrett’s still on we still lose, maybe not by as much.

The difference in attitude showed a week later. One red card doesn’t explain a 57 point turnaround in a week. ABs were poor in Perth, and the loss steeled them big time a week later, and that’s been the case for ten years. They haven’t lost two straight for 8 years, 10 if you excuse the 2011 RC where experimentation took place in SA to get players like Dagg back playing.

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Post by miaow on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 11:29 pm

NZ aren't in this group. Let's not use the pretence of a Australia NZ game that was last month be used as a vehicle to bang on about the ABs on the eve of the Oz/Wales game. Stick it in the NZ group for that.


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Post by miaow on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 11:48 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
miaow wrote:Good thing is Pocock looked miles off the pace v Fiji. Bad news is, he'll know that, and that might be all he needs to get back up to pace. Also bad news, Hooper looked fantastic. Standout performer and a constant shining light in a side which flicks on and off far too often.

Agree it'll be a big game for Wainwright. Can't help but feel the plaudits are a touch premature for him - lauding him as the new Warburton etc. He looks like he's got all the skills, but still looks raw in some ways. Tomorrow will be a big test. Navidi to nullify Pocock, Wainwright on Hooper.

Just feel like for all Wainwright does well, he’s a bit off the pace internationally. He fell off a few tackles in the warmups, but that could be due to not being used to playing heavy legged etc. Be interesting to see, but obviously he’s still very raw. I guess it helps that in comparison to Moriarty, he shows up as a more intelligent player.

Agree with this. He seems to me someone who's still growing in to his body a bit - for all his height and bulk, he doesn't quite have that 'man strength' yet. It's weird, but it's basically that extra bit of core density and power you just naturally get as you hit your mid to late 20s. A lot of players seem to have it earlier - Warburton did - but he looks like he's still quite raw and growing still. I don't expect him to physically impose himself against quality opposition, and he did struggle with that against SA last autumn.

But that's nitpicking, he's done well in the loose generally, and he is what he is - someone who was on the pro football pathway during the last world cup. Definitely a different player to Moriarty, like chalk and cheese. Put them together and you've got a good pairing, so Dragons have something to look forward to over the coming years.

It's only natural he isn't quite 'there' yet. For all the talk of Wales exploding in to 2011 with a new back row of Lydiate-Warburton-Faletau, only Faletau made his debut that summer. Warburton went on the 09 tour to the US, I believe, and Lydiate won his cap that autumn, I think, after a broken back had held him back. They both picked up caps up until 2011, but didn't really displace Martyn Williams/Jon Thomas/Ryan Jones (injured in 2011?)/Andy Powell until that 6 Nations.

Wainright's in a different situation. Come from football for starters, and maybe Gatland had him on the radar, but he's had to shake things up in the last 12-15 months with Warburton retiring. Would have always been the plan to carry Warburton through the groups so he could do his stuff in the knockouts. Then, with him gone, Ellis Jenkins was - I believe - being lined up to take over the 7 shirt, or maybe the 6 shirt depending on the mix of the backrow. With Ellis out, it basically guaranteed Tipuric the 7 shirt as well as guaranteeing Navidi a place in the 23 as well, likely at the expense of Moriarty. So you have Tipuric 7, Faletau 8, Navidi 6. Moriarty or Shingler at 20 depending on opposition, with Shingler also filling in at 19, as he is now.

Wainwright almost threw a happy spanner in the works by giving Gatland what he wanted in the autumn, and then again in the 6Ns and, presumably, training. He looks like the kind of man/boy who would excel in that environment, working hard, top of the wrestling stats, always hydrated etc. Anyway, Shingler's not really a starting option due to injury, Faletau's out, and that really changes the dynamic of the back row, and is far from ideal. 3 world class players out of the RWC for Wales, possibly could have been our starters if Ellis was also being lined up.

The issue with Wainwright and Tipuric is ball carrying. Tipuric's good in his own way, and isn't a 'dumb' carrier, he uses his body well, but we almost need a dumb carrier - like Warburton would be from time to time - who can just stick the shoulder down and run hard.

Hopefully won't matter against Australia, but they do have a few tidy carriers in the front row and Hooper does a nice job there as well. We have Jake Ball to do the hard yards, Ken will always offer himself, Wyn Jones is quite a savvy yet safe loose carrier, but we could really do with Moriarty doing what he's been getting better at, which is being a number 8.

Anyway, hope Wainwright pays well. Massive ask to come across Pooper so early in his test career in what could make or break Wales' WC.

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Post by miaow on Sun 29 Sep 2019, 11:46 am

Great win for Wales that kept Australia to the single bonus point, conceding just the 3 tries.

Wales on 9, Australia on 6. Only a Wales loss or failure to win lets Oz back in to top the group.

That means we're likely looking at the blydi French again - payback for 2011 on the cards - while Australia will match up against England.

That's all barring England failing to beat Arg and France back to back. Can't help but feel the scheduling has been tough on England in what is an already tough group.

Anyway, we both know who's qualifying from the group, it's just whether Wales can back it up against Fiji. Enough of a rest now to go first team again against Fiji, but I imagine there will be a few injuries in the wake of that game. Have to hope Biggar isn't serious, and North looked like he took a bit of a knock. Liam Williams as well. Who knows in the forwards, no-one went off injured, but that was a battering game.

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Post by Shifty on Sun 29 Sep 2019, 12:03 pm

Fantastic from Wales today. Personally i expected Wales to dominate, but Australia to get enough special moments to win the game. Luckily Wales did enough in the first half to see the game out.

Just need to sneak past Fiji, hopefully rest up our main players for Uruguay, and start fresh in the quarters now. We will be carrying a lot of dents in the armour after this win though.
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Post by maestegmafia on Sun 29 Sep 2019, 12:04 pm

miaow wrote:Great win for Wales that kept Australia to the single bonus point, conceding just the 3 tries.

Wales on 9, Australia on 6. Only a Wales loss or failure to win lets Oz back in to top the group.

That means we're likely looking at the blydi French again - payback for 2011 on the cards - while Australia will match up against England.

That's all barring England failing to beat Arg and France back to back. Can't help but feel the scheduling has been tough on England in what is an already tough group.

Anyway, we both know who's qualifying from the group, it's just whether Wales can back it up against Fiji. Enough of a rest now to go first team again against Fiji, but I imagine there will be a few injuries in the wake of that game. Have to hope Biggar isn't serious, and North looked like he took a bit of a knock. Liam Williams as well. Who knows in the forwards, no-one went off injured, but that was a battering game.



Two games left and we need to make sure we get through unscathed and unbeaten.

Looks like the boys are doing well with dealing with pressure.

I was about to have a heart attack when we kicked possession away with 1.5min left on the clock but defended well and turned over the ball.


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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 29 Sep 2019, 12:06 pm

AWJ and Tips for me are guys that need rest. They should be benched for Fiji at least, then left out of the 23 for Uruguay.

Is it too soon to mention Aaron Wainwrights and world class in the same sentence? Wink

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Post by LondonTiger on Sun 29 Sep 2019, 12:37 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:AWJ and Tips for me are guys that need rest. They should be benched for Fiji at least, then left out of the 23 for Uruguay.

Is it too soon to mention Aaron Wainwrights and world class in the same sentence? Wink

Not sure if you were involved, but certainly your fellow Welsh fans were saying he does not look quite ready for this level in the run up to the game.

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Post by BigGee on Sun 29 Sep 2019, 12:38 pm

Very good win by Wales, considering the tide had turned and they looked out on their feet with 20 to go.

Thd bench gave them a second wind and got them over the line.

How does Dsvies keep getting away with these intercepts? Do sides not look at his highlights reel?

Great plays though and he would have put the match to bed if he had held on to the second one.

Wales in prime spot to top thst group now

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