Leicester Tigers 2019-20

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 11:23 am

First topic message reminder :

Fixtures


September
13th Misc - Premiership Sevens, Pool Fixtures
14th Misc - Premiership Sevens, KO Fixtures
21st 15:00 - Worcester (a), Premiership Cup
27th 19:45 - Exeter (h), Premiership Cup

October
 5th 15:00 - Bath (a), Premiership Cup
12th 15:00 - Northampton (h), Premiership Cup
19th 15:00 - Worcester (a), Gallagher Premiership
27th 15:00 - Saracens (h), Gallagher Premiership


November
 2nd 15:00 - Gloucester (h), Gallagher Premiership
10th 15:00 - London Irish (a), Gallagher Premiership
16th 15:00 - Pau (h), Challenge Cup
23rd 20:00 - Cardiff (a), Challenge Cup

30th 15:00 - Northampton (a), Gallagher Premiership

December
 7th 15:00 - Calvisano (h), Challenge Cup
14th 13:30 - Calvisano (a), Challenge Cup

21st 15:00 - Exeter (h), Gallagher Premiership
28th 16:30 - Harlequins (a - Twickenham), Gallagher Premiership

January
 4th 15:00 - Bristol (h), Gallagher Premiership
12th 15:15 - Cardiff (h), Challenge Cup

17/18/19 - Pau (a), Challenge Cup
24/25/26 - Bath (a), Gallagher Premiership

February
14/15/16 - Wasps (h), Gallagher Premiership
21/21/23 - Sale (a), Gallagher Premiership
28/29/01 - Worcester (h), Gallagher Premiership

March
6/7/8 - Saracens (a), Gallagher Premiership
20/21/22 - Exeter (a), Gallagher Premiership
27/28/29 - Beth (h), Gallagher Premiership


April
3/4/5 - Castres (h), Challenge Cup 1/4 Final
10/11/12 - London Irish (h), Gallagher Premiership
17/18/19 - Gloucester (a), Gallagher Premiership
24/25/26 - Sale (h), Gallagher Premiership

May
8/9/10 - Wasps (a), Gallagher Premiership
15/16/17 - Northampton (h), Gallagher Premiership
29/30/31 - Bristol (a), Gallagher Premiership

June
5/6/7 - Harlequins (h), Gallagher Premiership


Squad & Coaching Team


Head Coach: Geordan Murphy
Forwards Coach: Mark Bakewell
Attack Coach: Mike Ford
Defence Coach: Phil Blake
Scrum Coach: Boris Stankovich
Senior Development coach: Brett Deacon
Team Manager: Teresa Carrington


First Team Squad:
Props (8): Greg Bateman, Dan Cole, Gaston Cortes, Ellis Genge, Facundo Gigena, Joe Heyes, Owen Hills, Nephi Leatigaga
Hookers (5): Charlie Clare, Jake Kerr, Tatafu Polota-Nau, Jimmy Stevens, Tom Youngs
Second Row (4): Calum Green, Tomas Lavanini, Will Spencer, Harry Wells
Back Row (8): Jordan Coghlan, Dave Denston, Sione Kalamafoni, Sam Lewis, Hanro Liebenberg, Tommy Reffell, Jordan Taufua, Guy Thompson
Half Backs: (8)Sam Harrison, Harry Simmons, Ben White, Ben Youngs, George Ford, Tom Hardwicke, Johnny McPhillips, Noel Reid
Outside Backs (13): Sam Aspland-Robinson, Kyle Eastmond, Andy Forsyth, Jonah Holmes, Jonny May, Jordan Olowofela, Jaco Taute, Joe Thomas, Adam Thompstone, Manu Tuilagi, Telusa Veainu, EW Viljoen, George Worth

Development Squad:
Props (3): Osman Dimen, Keston Lines, James Whitcombe
Hookers (0):
Second Row (3): Cameron Jordan, Tom Manz, George Martin
Back Row (5): Ollie Ashwoth, Sam Eveleigh, Taylor Gough, Henri Lavin, Thom Smith
Half Backs (3): Jonny Law, Jack van Poortvliet, Sam Costelow
Outside Backs (4): Joe Browning, Kyran Bungaroo, Leo Gilliland, Freddie Steward


Last edited by LondonTiger on Tue 21 Jan 2020, 9:26 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Fri 27 Dec 2019, 12:17 pm

BUY TICKETS
HARLEQUINS
VS
LEICESTER TIGERS
28 December 2019 16:30 at Twickenham

Team news | Tigers away to Harlequins
27 December 2019 12:00 By Gary Sherrard
Sam Lewis is selected in the back row for the fixture against Harlequins
Sam Lewis is selected in the back row for the fixture against Harlequins
Kyle Eastmond is back in action following a calf injury
Kyle Eastmond is back in action following a calf injury
Jaco Taute comes into the Tigers backline for the trip to Twickenham
Jaco Taute comes into the Tigers backline for the trip to Twickenham
Sam Lewis is selected in the back row for the fixture against Harlequins
Sam Lewis is selected in the back row for the fixture against Harlequins
Kyle Eastmond is back in action following a calf injury
Kyle Eastmond is back in action following a calf injury
1 / 3
Kye Eastmond and Jaco Taute return to the Leicester Tigers line-up for Saturday’s trip to face Harlequins at Twickenham Stadium.

The duo team up at centre for this weekend’s Round 7 clash in the Gallagher Premiership season with Noel Reid reverting to the bench and Manu Tuilagi sitting out this weekend as the only changes to the backline following the game against Exeter Chiefs last Saturday.

In the forwards, there is a place for Sam Lewis in the back row alongside Jordan Taufua and Sione Kalamafoni, with Calum Green moving into the second row alongside Tomas Lavanini after Will Spencer’s head-knock against the Chiefs.

Tigers head coach Geordan Murphy said: “Manu pulled up sore after a busy game last Saturday and a lot of carries, so we want to manage him during what is a long season and so have decided to stand him down his week.

“Kyle and Jaco have trained a lot together this season and worked together in the midfield, so we’re confident they will partner up well for us on Saturday.

“We did a lot of good things in the first hour against Exeter and scored three good tries. But we missed out on a few attacking opportunities in the second half and I think if you can capitalise on one of those, then it’s a very different game. Now we have to build on the work from the first 60 minutes and put out a big performance.”

Leicester Tigers (v Harlequins, Twickenham Stadium, Saturday 4.30pm)

15 Telusa Veainu

14 Adam Thompstone

13 Jaco Taute

12 Kyle Eastmond

11 Jonny May

10 George Ford

9 Ben Youngs

1 Ellis Genge

2 Tom Youngs (c)

3 Dan Cole

4 Tomás Lavanini

5 Calum Green

6 Sam Lewis

7 Jordan Taufua

8 Sione Kalamafoni

Replacements

16 Tatafu Polota-Nau

17 Facundo Gigena

18 Nephi Leatigaga

19 Harry Wells

20 Tommy Reffell

21 Ben White

22 Noel Reid

23 George Worth

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Fri 27 Dec 2019, 12:18 pm

HARLEQUINS
SEARCHMOBILE NAV
NEWS
CATEGORY
HARLEQUINS ANNOUNCE BIG GAME 12 SQUAD TO FACE LEICESTER
Friday, 27th December 2019 @ 12:00


HARLEQUINS HAVE NAMED THE SIDE THAT WILL RUN OUT AT TWICKENHAM STADIUM ON SATURDAY 28 DECEMBER AT BIG GAME 12, FACING LEICESTER TIGERS.

Scrum half Danny Care will become the only Harlequins player to have played in every edition of Big Game, in a repeat of the Club’s first ever Big Game in 2008, facing Leicester at the home of English rugby.

Paul Gustard, and his coaching team, have named an unchanged pack from the side that beat Wasps last weekend at the Ricoh Arena, with only two changes in the backs.

American centre Paul Lasike replaces the injured James Lang at 12, while Fijian international winger Vereniki Goneva makes his first Gallagher Premiership start for Harlequins against his former club.

Head of Rugby at Harlequins, Paul Gustard said: “Big Game is such an important fixture for the Club, and a special one to be a part of for not only the players, coaches and staff; but also for the supporters who turn out in their numbers to enjoy an outstanding day of sport at Twickenham.

“All that said, of critical importance to me and the players is the simple fact that it is the next game and the next opportunity for us to move forward with our collective performance and build momentum in the league.

“Whilst we have had a couple days with our families and away from the Club, my mind doesn’t waver too far from the challenge this formidable Leicester Tigers side presents.

“It will be a great occasion and a thrilling contest and one we need our supporters to be in full voice for. We want our song to roll like thunder down the stands and help inspire our team to excellence.”

Harlequins Starting XV:
1 Joe Marler (197)
2 Elia Elia (48)
3 Kyle Sinckler (142)
4 Stephan Lewies (10)
5 Matt Symons (34)
6 James Chisholm (79) (VC)
7 Chris Robshaw (285) (Captain)
8 Tom Lawday (10)
9 Danny Care (267) (VC)
10 Marcus Smith (70)
11 Vereniki Goneva (3)
12 Paul Lasike (13)
13 Michele Campagnaro (6)
14 Cadan Murley (24)
15 Ross Chisholm (113)

Game Changers:
16 Jack Musk (5)
17 Santiago Garcia Botta (8)
18 Will Collier (161)
19 Tevita Cavubati (7)
20 Alex Dombrandt (35)
21 Martin Landajo (10)
22 Brett Herron (4)
23 Gabriel Ibitoye (30)

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Fri 27 Dec 2019, 12:32 pm

Happy Lewis gets his chance to lay down a marker. Taufua looked exceptional last weekend but will have to be again this week against a Quins backrow that will be handy at the breakdown.

Scrum should be quite a battle but we have no excuses for not having a functioning lineout with Quins not displaying any particular expert in the exponent of the game.

The massive Lasike Vs the diminutive Eastmond will be an interesting match up at 12 as will master Vs pupil at 10 and the old rivalry at 9. No Manu is a blow for Tigers but this is what Taute was brought in for and he is a leader which might be useful in the outside channels though both our wingers have plenty of experience.

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Post by king_carlos on Fri 27 Dec 2019, 3:54 pm

I'm delighted for Lewis to get a go. We have lots of talented back rows coming through so we need to use them. Back rows demand high salaries as well so in terms of staying under the cap bringing academy grads through as squad cover (and hopefully starters as they progress) will help a lot.

I hope we see 6.Lewis 7.Reffell 8.Taufua in the second half as things open up.

I was thinking 'this is the sort of game we need to be winning', but frankly we just need to start winning regardless if we're going to stay up.

Ibitoye has been in good form so it's arguably harsh to drop him but Goneva has an infuriating habit of tearing Tigers apart. Especially running good lines around the fringes where our defence has been abject in recent years.

Interesting that Murphy has reverted to Eastmond with him fit again. Personally I think he's been poor for Tigers and many are hanging to a hope of the Ford-Eastmond partnership from Bath sparking something.

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Post by Brendan on Fri 27 Dec 2019, 10:25 pm

Win for wasps really puts the pressure on Tigers.

They really need a result tomorrow v Quinns

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Post by king_carlos on Fri 27 Dec 2019, 10:52 pm

Brendan wrote:Win for wasps really puts the pressure on Tigers.

They really need a result tomorrow v Quinns

Wasps 7 points ahead. Effectively 2 wins to overturn and 2 wins seem rare for this side currently.

We only have 2 Prem matches (Quins (a) and Bristol (h)) before the England players will be away for the 6 Nations as well. With the England players available these look like two of our more winnable Premiership games in the near future.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Fri 27 Dec 2019, 10:57 pm

We really needed a result full stop. You can't spend the season waiting for people to be worse than you. We should of got a result against Chiefs last week and now we really should be looking for something against someone lower down the league.

The team on paper is up to the job. They just have to deliver for 80 minutes. Only issue is that Quins have a bit more X factor off of the bench. Tigers need to hit hard and hit big in the first half take the game away from Quins and silence the crowd. Put themselves in a position where they can play smart in the second half, play territory and force Quins to try and play from deep. Lots of pressure on Marcus Smith, force Quins to play off of 9 and run into our big boys up front.

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Post by Gooseberry on Sun 29 Dec 2019, 9:26 pm

Its a mark of things that people are celebrating a draw against the 8th/9th placed club as an upturn, especially as Wasps cashed in and widened the gap. Saracens loss to Exeter doesnt really change that they look well set to chew up Tigers advantage.

The small improvements in play and the fight shown by the team needs to be turned into wins, the danger of relegation is very real.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 29 Dec 2019, 9:46 pm

You're not wrong. Things are improving but we needed this improvement and more from the start of the season. Our attack is still shockingly poor consideringthe resources we have available. Currently we are the favourites for relegation. 5 points Vs Bristol will help things nicely but currently that looks a long way away.

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 01 Jan 2020, 9:12 am

king_carlos wrote:Ford and Genge would be my priorities as well. Both key and have time on their hands. The value of fly-halves and props is huge as well so replacing either will cost big the same as trying to re-sign them.

Lenny hasn't consistently shown his best for Tigers for a long time. He's had a great career and was once one of the clubs crown jewels but realistically we can get another very good scrum-half for his wage. I hope he stays but for the right price, given what Tigers have got from Youngs recently that might not happen.

The Mail reported that we have 17 players coming out of contract. My guess would be:

Forwards: Genge, Bateman, Hills, Youngs, Polota-Nau, Cortes, Spencer, Thompson, Kalamafoni

Backs: Youngs, Harrison, Ford, Eastmond, May, Thompstone, Aspland-Robinson, Worth

Players are less likely to re-sign if we are 11th and playing dire rugby so hopefully things improve fast.

Now that it is a New Year, club starting to announce those who have signed extensions.

Ashland Robinson at 8am, Worth at 9am.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Wed 01 Jan 2020, 9:30 am

Hopefully the "Wonderful Wednesday" culminates in Genge, Ford and Borthwick.

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 01 Jan 2020, 10:00 am

Ellis Genge at 10am Yahoo

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Wed 01 Jan 2020, 10:16 am

It's nice to see Worth and SAP retrained.

It's great to see Genge signing on again, especially the week after destroying Sinckler at Twickers.

Now Ford and Borthwick please.

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 01 Jan 2020, 11:02 am

And now George Ford.

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 01 Jan 2020, 3:51 pm

It's a good start to the re-signings. Ford and Genge were the vital 2. They will be on massive contracts but we needed to retain them as two of the leaders in the first XV.

Worth and Aspland-Robinson are handy squad players who cover lots of positions and wont cost a huge amount. Good to re-sign and get some continuity. I personally think that Worth is best at centre but time will see where he settles.

We have Steward, Browning and Gilliland coming through plus Olowofela recently promoted. It's a good vein of talent coming through in the back three that will hopefully allow us to save money by not overpaying for squad players.

We need to improve hooker and second row options a lot more than the back three so hopefully using the academy talent can facilitate that somewhat.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Wed 01 Jan 2020, 6:18 pm

We've got some good locks coming through. Martin should be a future international but needs a year or two more development. If we can acquire someone with a similar mindset to Lavanini to help our physical edge that would be ideal.

Hooker is an area where funds need to be spent. TPN will be off and Youngs is rumoured to be retiring. Keeping Clare and Stevens as cheap 3rd and 4th choices make sense. Kerr is in there as well so that should leave funds for a high quality hooker. If we decide to let Stevens go we could instead go after two good hookers and have Clare as 4th choice, picking up players like Woolstencroft and Cooper would not be massively expensive.

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Post by king_carlos on Sun 05 Jan 2020, 7:20 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo4HmBX_obc

Well made mini documentary and a good watch.

The academy is still in good health and the pathway to the senior side seems to be improving again. Jamie Taylor has a really good reputation as a coach and I've only heard positive things about Matt Smith thus far in his short coaching career.

Emeka Ilione seems an impressive leader already. In the forwards I've got big hopes for him and Archie Vanes. Kit Smith is a unit as well for a lad his age.

I just hope we see more of the development squad pushing into the senior squad. With Dimen, Lines and Whitcombe in the development squad I'd be happy for us to drop a prop from the senior squad for next year for instance. Cortes has barely been seen so far this season and championship props can be picked up for injury dispensation if needed - Christian Judge at Sarries for example.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 05 Jan 2020, 7:45 pm

I'd argue against the need for both Hills and Cortes next season. As you say we can pick up a injury dispensation or a loan from the Championship if we need to plus our development props will be of an age where they can step in. Unless of course there's a particularly good prop available at a good price. This season is likely to be the last where Cole is involved with England so he should be around more next season.

Save some money at prop and some at hooker as above and we can afford that extra lock. Ideally another real bruiser. We'll have to free up some extra cash somewhere though as Ford and Genge will have had good payrises.

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Post by Gooseberry on Sun 05 Jan 2020, 10:07 pm

Rugby Pass is doing a documentary series following the Tigers academy, two episodes so far and theres at least one more due

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtmkMQQaTeY

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 13 Jan 2020, 12:52 pm

Some good performances yesterday. Clancy was rather "odd" at the scrums, but I felt that the less experienced players stood up well in teh set piece. Scrum continues to look strong and we took the Cardiff lineout apart.

Thought Ben White looked really good, having Ford outside him must have helped. Olowefela is looking red hot at the moment.

Finally a thought for Ford's goal kicking. It is now a clear strength of his game and I cannot remember the last time he had anything resembling an off day.

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Post by BigGee on Mon 13 Jan 2020, 1:21 pm

How did Rory Hughes get on LT?

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Mon 13 Jan 2020, 1:24 pm

Ben White looked good in the second half. Laboured a bit in the first. He's got it in him to be an international level scrum HF but needs to back himself and start setting the tempo as opposed to be cautious and slowing things down.

Owolfela given a metre makes twenty. He's really adapted his attacking game to senior rugby and is linking up very well with TV. Another one who could have a big future. He'll need to sort out his positioning in the tackle though. He has a tendency to worry about being stepped so stays up on the balls of his feet. He's quite tall and has no weight to him to its really easy for an opponent to get lower and just muscle him backwards. He's got to get lower and chop people down.

Second half Tigers came out and took control of the game well. There's some young lads who showed up well. Reffell looked better as the game wore on and will have learnt something up against Navidi. Hughes try saver was good and he looked busy, potential successor to Thompstone.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 13 Jan 2020, 1:33 pm

BigGee wrote:How did Rory Hughes get on LT?

As Sam says he made an important try saving tackle. Should fit in well as backup, starting during 6Ns etc.

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Post by BigGee on Mon 13 Jan 2020, 1:39 pm

Hopefully he gets some game time and settles in.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Mon 13 Jan 2020, 4:54 pm

A decent start. He didn't have to put his body on the line to make the try saving tackle, no one would have pointing fingers if he hadn't come flying across and got underneath the falling Cardiff player. That kind of tackle is typical of Thompstone the man we presume he is being eyed up as a replacement for. That kind of attitude is why Thompstone is a fan favourite.injurkes have hindered Thompstone's carrying ability so we'll be looking for Hughes to show that side of his game consistently going forward. He made some decent carries but nothing particularly eye catching. Not knowing the players around him it might have been difficult to judge when to link, one Owolfela/TV break led to TV being held up but the switch was on for Hughes to come back inside unfortunately he wasn't on the same wavelength as TV.

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Post by BigGee on Mon 13 Jan 2020, 5:58 pm

That might be his weakness unfortunately, for all his power and enthusiasm, he is probably not an instinctive a footballer as other top wingers, certainly if you compare him to Seymour and DTHVDM who have held down the Glasgow wing shirts for a long time now.

He has also got injured a lot which has held him back a bit when he looked like he might break through. Maybe he just needs his chance to shine.

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Post by Khouli Khan on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 6:28 am

Encouraging as the results in Europe have been so far this year, it's disappointing that Tigers seem to have found their niche - that is, the second tier of any competition....

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 7:14 am

Was always likely to be a rebuilding process this year. We need tj stay up, have another good summer of recruitment and with Borthwick coming in kick in next season. Part of the problem last season and at the start of this season is a lack of confidence. A good showing in the smaller European competition will help boost confidence in the squad and if we were to get the cup at the end of the year then that would only be good for us.

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Post by Khouli Khan on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 7:17 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:Was always likely to be a rebuilding process this year.....

Has been for 10 years apparently....

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 9:07 am

Khouli Khan wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:Was always likely to be a rebuilding process this year.....  

Has been for 10 years apparently....

Not really, though the club did rest on it's laurels for too long.

2013 was a peak beating Saints in the premiership final and providing the Lions with 6 players.

The following season was a decent one but the signs were there that we were on the slide. Losing away to Saints in the semi after leading for so long was hard to take. Losing home and away to Ulster saw us consigned to travelling to Clermont for the Euro 1/4 final.

The decline continued apace and some dire rugby was being played. Scraping into play-offs and the Euro Semi v Racing all papered over the cracks but recruitment was dreadful and there was no direction. Just failing to make the play-offs should have been the wake up call in 17/18 - instead we had another year of poor recruitment, a Head Coach who failed to report back on time and players who started the season not fit enough. Thi sall meant last season which should have been a chance to rebuild was wasted as the club spent the whole time "bailing water with leaky buckets".

This summer and this season there are improvements. The coaching is still not good enough but at home so far we have lost to Saracens and Exeter, winning every other game. There are some tiny shoots of recovery but boy they are fragile right now.

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Post by Khouli Khan on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 9:24 am

LondonTiger wrote:
Khouli Khan wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:Was always likely to be a rebuilding process this year.....  

Has been for 10 years apparently....

Not really, though the club did rest on it's laurels for too long.

2013 was a peak beating Saints in the premiership final and providing the Lions with 6 players.

The following season was a decent one but the signs were there that we were on the slide. Losing away to Saints in the semi after leading for so long was hard to take. Losing home and away to Ulster saw us consigned to travelling to Clermont for the Euro 1/4 final.

The decline continued apace and some dire rugby was being played. Scraping into play-offs and the Euro Semi v Racing all papered over the cracks but recruitment was dreadful and there was no direction. Just failing to make the play-offs should have been the wake up call in 17/18 - instead we had another year of poor recruitment, a Head Coach who failed to report back on time and players who started the season not fit enough. Thi sall meant last season which should have been a chance to rebuild was wasted as the club spent the whole time "bailing water with leaky buckets".

This summer and this season there are improvements. The coaching is still not good enough but at home so far we have lost to Saracens and Exeter, winning every other game. There are some tiny shoots of recovery but boy they are fragile right now.

I completely agree with what you've said, although I do personally think the club was in decline well before the 2013 Premiership Final, and that that was won 'against the trend'....

But there were quite a few people on the Tigers' official forum who began to froth at the mouth if such a thing were suggested and that each season was a season 'rebuilding' or 'in transition'. For most any sensible person, the fall from grace was obvious. I often thought that if some of the supporters weren't willing to accept the truth, then it was no surprise that the people running the club were ingrained with the same blinkered mentality.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 11:23 am

It is weird while 2013 was perhaps the recent peak, but by then the throughput from the academy had virtually dried up. Five of our Six Lions that year were homegrown but they had all graduated in the previous decade. George Ford has been the only notable academy graduate (so far) from the decade just finished - and we ended up in a position where he left.

so as usual the seeds of the decline usually do start earlier. I still remember the euphoria of the 2010 final. We were sat behind the posts Leicester were defending in the second half, so had seen Saracens come down and appear to sneak a late win. Then that final play, Flood's kick off, Hamilton's leap and Hipkiss's try. Saffacens (as they were very much then) used that defeat as a springboard and evolved the team (yes they also cheated the cap, but we have not been squeaky clean when it comes to "investments"). We however fine tuned what we had perhaps ignoring teh long term.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 12:31 pm

Oh the 2010 final. Best Prem final ever, what a game. Me and the then girlfriend (now wife) jumping up and down like nutters as Hipkiss raced over before commiserating with the devastated Sarries fans to our left. Was there the year after when Sarries kicked us to death as well...

The mismanagement of the academy was a disgraceful oversight by too many in notable positions in the club. Most of which are now gone. It'll take years for the benefits of a working academy to be felt though we are getting the first glimmers already.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 12:50 pm

Struggling to remember if 2011 Was Sarries and death by a thousand kicks or Quins and them stepping sideways just as each scrum set.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 1:10 pm

Quins was after the Sarries defeat. Robshaw with the last minute turnover, watched that from new house being too skint to go down to Twickers. Depending on which side you were on would depend on whether you thought he was off his feet or not and whether you thought the Quins scrum relied entirely on the initial hit to step forward before roulette wheeling round.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 1:13 pm

Theres quite a difference between the "slide" from 2010-2013 and the 2016-2019 plummet though. Tigers had already gone through the Lofredda/Meyer debacles by then...so you could point back to before the last glory days for when the problems started. 

A long term decline is one thing, but Tigers still have more resources on and off the field than many cubs above them. You cant really blame the 18 month debacle on what happened a decade ago. Theres perfectly good players who have massively under performed, as well as some poor appointments. 

The academy was ignored for a while and bringing back one of the key instigators in that was obviously a massive error (and precipitated the recent crash), but it is one of the best resourced academies out there and part of a regional programme. Theres no reason it shouldnt be producing quality players other than a failure of the coaches and the individuals put in their. 

The narrative that this current mess was inevitable doesnt really stack up to me. Yes the team and club had stopped being the big cheese, but theres still no excuse for the 18 months of absolute dirge we got. 

It does look like they hit rock bottom and are on their way back up now at least. I'm a lot less fearful of relegation than a few weeks ago and it looks like Murphy has finally managed to get the team working as one and to a coherent plan. The state of Irish makes me pretty confident that Tigers will be safe, and we can look forward to a rebuilding/transition phase next year  Whistle

Getting Borthwick on board will be a big plus too, and hopefully his presence will help tigers get some choice pickings from Saracens come transfers time. 
Owolfela finally starting to look like hes going to live up to potential is a huge plus from the last few weeks.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 3:11 pm

Gooseberry wrote:

The academy was ignored for a while and bringing back one of the key instigators in that was obviously a massive error (and precipitated the recent crash), but it is one of the best resourced academies out there and part of a regional programme. Theres no reason it shouldnt be producing quality players other than a failure of the coaches and the individuals put in their. .

MOC had little impact on it this time round. The malaise that engulfed it was as much down to the MOC/Cockers mantra of win on Saturday at all costs as it was the awful people they had running it. Thacker Snr by all accounts was more interested in which school the player was attending than what they could do on the pitch (told to me first hand by a former county age grade player in the system who ended up signing for a league team when his face didn't fit). The previous head of the academy was even worse and it's no wonder after we pushed him out he went to Gloucester and then got fired. Far too often they had project players they considered special and then filled the squad around them with the biggest players they could find so they win games. It was a terrible mess before Taylor put things right.

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Post by nathan on Sat 18 Jan 2020, 1:14 pm

Some awful reffing in this game.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 18 Jan 2020, 2:17 pm

It's Ben Whitehouse he's incompetent.

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 18 Jan 2020, 2:19 pm

Should have been a yellow with the three offsides in consecutive phases but that's so poor from Tigers not to finish a try with those opportunities.

Really frustrating.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 18 Jan 2020, 2:23 pm

king_carlos wrote:Should have been a yellow with the three offsides in consecutive phases but that's so poor from Tigers not to finish a try with those opportunities.

Really frustrating.

We've been hit and miss today.

Pau are playing the ref better than we are. Just coming through the ruck and taking the 9 everytime. How no yellow card came from the three offsides I have no idea, absolutely ridiculous.

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 18 Jan 2020, 2:30 pm

Same story of lacking shape in the backs without Ford pulling the strings.

I'm glad that Hardwick and Reid are getting game time, and in the right positions, before the 6 Nations as the shape with Ford needs to improve so much.

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 18 Jan 2020, 2:33 pm

The old Freddie Burns dink over the top isn't dead yet!

White's match sharpness and Taufua's class have made an impact though.

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 18 Jan 2020, 2:41 pm

So nice seeing Jake Kerr playing.

Youngs is a club legend (who has been in solid form this season) and TPN has had a fantastic career (but hasn't been in shining form) but Kerr is the sort of talented squad player, with potential to be more that we need to develop more.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 18 Jan 2020, 2:46 pm

Sloppy scrum free kick we should have done better. That should have been our big chance.

The farce of the yellow card is ridiculous. Clock should have been reset.

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 18 Jan 2020, 2:53 pm

Taufua has been brilliant since arriving at Leicester. Him and Lavanini are in a position to have impacts akin to Craig Newby, Daryll Gibson, Julian Salvi, etc.

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Post by nathan on Sat 18 Jan 2020, 3:00 pm

So they only had someone in the bin for around 8 minutes after they just brought another player on.

Took Murphy to point it out

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 18 Jan 2020, 3:27 pm

king_carlos wrote:Taufua has been brilliant since arriving at Leicester. Him and Lavanini are in a position to have impacts akin to Craig Newby, Daryll Gibson, Julian Salvi, etc.

Brilliant summer signings. Exactly what we needed and hopefully Liebenburg will return soon, he showed hints of very promising form before injury. Having that quality in the pack is allowing us to bring in some of the younger guys and develop them. Lewis looked decent off the bench.

Nathan I think the only had 7 and a half minutes with 14.

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 18 Jan 2020, 3:47 pm

nathan wrote:So they only had someone in the bin for around 8 minutes after they just brought another player on.

Took Murphy to point it out

Such a farcical situation. I guess the argument for not re-starting the clock would be that Tigers got a penalty on halfway to restart. How far does that extend though, if it had taken 4 minutes would that be the case for instance. Geordie was going nuts, understandably so given how much pressure he's under.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 18 Jan 2020, 4:27 pm

Given how close Pau were to breaking through and scoring whilst playing with a man more than they should he had every right to be angry.

Hardwick looked fairly assured at 10, that's a positive considering Ford will be away with England soon. Reid looked unsure and didn't link as well as I would have liked to see. Simmons looked very rusty.

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