PGA Tour: Here we go again, The 2019/20 Season is Underway, Vegas Baby: Notes from the Ballwasher

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Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 3:19 pm

First topic message reminder :

Random thoughts and notes:
1).The 2019/2020 PGA Tour season is on the move in "Almost heaven, West Virginia" but not before Rory wins the Player Of The Year trophy, somehow beating Brooks Koepka. I'd love to know the voting but that's a closely guarded secret (until someone leaks it).

So we can only imagine what this really means:
*The media narrative so far is that it rewards consistency thru'out the season (and lack lustre Majors) over extraordinary excellence in the four most important events of the year - the four, coincidentally or not - which are not run by the PGA Tour.
Rory himself said: "I wanted to try and bring my best every single week I played", so perhaps he endorses the consistency thought (when it suits him).

*Or does it mean that the Tour Membership now value the (very) limited field Tour Championship, plus $15M and the FedEx trophy, and The Players over say, the PGA Championship, top five finishes at Augusta, Pebble and Portrush, and a WGC? Is that now the Members' opinion?? Don't expect Tiger Woods, for instance, would agree, and deep down I can hardly believe that Rory does.

Bizarre.

2).No surprises here, but I see the ghost of Tim Finchem all over such shenanigans. I didn't like the compressed season when it was announced and like it even less now that such artificial contrivances are regarded as the new norm, rather like those who feel the history of the world began on January 1st 2017.

3).The 19/20 season opens its batting with "A Military Tribute At The Greenbrier" which, believe it or not, offers its winner the longest exemption of a "regular season" event (given that Bay Hill and Memorial seem to have been elevated). The winner effectively receives a three year exemption unlike its near-ish Green neighbour, The Wyndham, in Greensboro. And there are a few new tournaments filling up the autumnal calendar which now looks like this:

4).In order:
Greenbrier - is this event still on life support or is the odious Jim Justice re-upping? Not sure, but John Daly is "playing" this week, a sure sign of an event in decline.
Sanderson Farms in Mississippi- now a "full-field" event with 500 x FedEx Points and a Masters invitation to the winner.
Safeway in Napa
Vegas baby
Houston - wonder if Ian James will defend his title?
CJ Cup in Korea
The Zozo(!) Championship - in Japan, apparently T.Woods's focus for the autumn.
WGC-HSBC Champions (and opposite field event in Bermuda for the Plunky Cup)
Week off
Mayakoba - No word yet on Kuchar's caddie arrangement
RSM in lovely Sea Island, Georgia
The end. Until the TOC @ Kapalua in early January.

5).Meanwhile, the Korn Ferry circuit's Q-School saga has begun, with pre-qualifying being completed this week, and Stage 1 to follow shortly. No "notables" spotted in the pre-qualies, but there usually are some surprise appearances in Stage 1 and the first fields should be published next week.

6).The new season seems to have caught the Tour on the hop with pgatour.com deferring publication of its "Player Exemptions" until after the AMTATG. Apart from Kaymer's curious membership extension I have yet to see lists of players taking, for instance, career earnings exemptions.

7).But there is a long list of Medical Extensions including some well known pros such as:
Berger (5 events remaining)
Chappell (23)
Cink (8)
DeLaet (24)
Donald (3) - Would think he'd surely take a career earnings free pass. Or retire.
Harrington(11)
Kirk (11)
Lovemark (23)
O'Hair (16)
Schwartzel (12)
Stadler (23)
Villegas (13)
And about two dozen other past champions and Tour journeymen.
(and super_realist pooh poos the mere notion that golf is such a physical sport . . . . . . )

8).Talking about past champions and Tour journeymen, these old lags are among those returning to the Tour courtesy of the Korn Ferry channel:
Brendan Todd
Grayson Murray
Beau Hossler
Lahiri
David Hearn
Streb
Trahan

9).And welcome to Europeans Tom Lewis (he's playing this week and could use some good early results), Viktor Hovland, Ben Taylor, Sebastian Cappelen, HenriK Norlander and Ace Ventura.

10).Back to The Greenbrier with a field so disappointing that 30,000 free tickets are being distributed to pad the attendance. Prof DeChambeau is here, plus Bubba and Marc Leishman, plus defending champ Kevin Na.
The Europeans are led by Russell Knox, Tom Lewis, Hovland, Laird, Lingmerth, Cejka, Power, Freddie Jac, Ventura, Straka, Norlander, Cappelen and Taylor.
(Not sure you'd bet on more than half of them being in the field for the first tournament of 2020/2021.)

Almost finally, in an "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" move the PGA Tour is adjusting its cut-line to Top 65 and ties and abandoning the 54-hole cut (when more than 78 pros are T70 and ties). So no more MDF's.  

And lastly, really, 2-time Major winner (back in the days when golf thought Majors were the most important events) Angel Cabrera, the 2014 AMTATG Champ, has turned 50 and makes his Champions Tour debut. Happy 50th to Angel and Rob Karlsson.


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Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 19 Nov 2019, 6:18 pm

Far away from the action in Dubai and Sea Island, Georgia, Champions Tour Q-School is underway in Florida, Texas & California.

Dozens of vaguely familiar names from the dim and distant past, but Ryder Cuppers Karlsson, Levet & Sandelin are contesting the Florida qualie.
It's tough to break down the door of this closed shop but I reckon Rob Karlsson could do compete on the Champions Tour almost as successfully as Jimenez, if he can just get one of the four slots available when Final Stage is complete in a couple of weeks.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 19 Nov 2019, 6:41 pm

We often harp on about the Kafelnikov factor in pro sports' elite in other sports playing pro golf, especially when their performances are pretty grisly.
Along those lines, it'll be interesting to see how John Smoltz makes out in Champions Tour Q-School - he's a Hall Of Fame baseball pitcher who certainly has (some) game. In the clubhouse with a -1 70, among the leaders of the early starters.

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Post by Shotrock on Tue 19 Nov 2019, 6:52 pm

Must say I find this interesting Kwin. First off, Smoltz (like his fellow other ball sport ex-pro Romo) has, I'm sure, amazing hand-eye coordination. And I do applaud him for the effort, but there are two things working against him in a major way: (1) If you couldn't beat these guys when you were younger, what makes you think you can beat them today? OK, so maybe he never got "into" golf at a younger age, but the world is littered with scratch, +1, +2, etc. guys that have honed that handicap on a few courses and playing golf on their terms (when they want to, with whom, and on courses of their choice). Further, (2) I think they Smoltz (and Romo) have no idea as to the amount of solo practice required to stay sharp enough to compete. There's no doubt in my mind that team run practice is very different from solo practice. They call them "working" professionals for a reason. I'm sure Tiger, Rory, (you name it) committed to practice sessions when they had no desire or interest to do so.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 19 Nov 2019, 6:57 pm

Shotrock wrote:Must say I find this interesting Kwin. First off, Smoltz (like his fellow other ball sport ex-pro Romo) has, I'm sure, amazing hand-eye coordination. And I do applaud him for the effort, but there are two things working against him in a major way: (1) If you couldn't beat these guys when you were younger, what makes you think you can beat them today? OK, so maybe he never got "into" golf at a younger age, but the world is littered with scratch, +1, +2, etc. guys that have honed that handicap on a few courses and playing golf on their terms (when they want to, with whom, and on courses of their choice). Further, (2) I think they Smoltz (and Romo) have no idea as to the amount of solo practice required to stay sharp enough to compete. There's not doubt in my mind that team run practice is very different from solo practice. They call them "working" professionals for a reason. I'm sure Tiger, Rory, (you name it) committed to practice sessions when they had no desire or interest to do so.


Sr,
I thought this was quite insightful from pgatour.com:

https://www.pgatour.com/champions/tour-insider/2019/11/18/john-smoltz-signs-up-for-q-school-to-prove-he-deserves-spot.html

Interesting perspective of an amateur teeing it up with the pros. (Anything to get away from Joe Buck . . . . . . )

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Post by Shotrock on Tue 19 Nov 2019, 7:07 pm

Great read Kwin. And, as I'm sure you know, I know a tremendous golfer that didn't play professionally until the Senior Tour (Jay Sigel). He did admirably on that tour, but also had a distinguished Amateur career so hardly a surprise he was able to compete.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 19 Nov 2019, 7:25 pm

Karlsson not reading the script, +6 over his last seven holes.

One bloke was really firing blanks, "Kevin Blanks" who improved from a front nine 48 to a back nine 47. Wonder if he's related to that moronic erstwhile Tour player Kris Blanks who once got pulled over by airport security for trying to pack a loaded gun in his carry-on luggage?

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Post by robopz on Tue 19 Nov 2019, 10:09 pm

Shotrock wrote:Great read Kwin. And, as I'm sure you know, I know a tremendous golfer that didn't play professionally until the Senior Tour (Jay Sigel). He did admirably on that tour, but also had a distinguished Amateur career so hardly a surprise he was able to compete.
Jay was amazing. I got to know and play with him a few times through Randy Sonnier. He was still an amateur back then... But sure played like a pro. Sonnier was a better ball striker, but Sigel was as good a tactician as I ever saw at any level...

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Post by McLaren on Wed 20 Nov 2019, 4:24 pm

Koepka claiming a wrist injury and Rickie in to replace him. Doubt he is injured that badly.
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Post by Shotrock on Wed 20 Nov 2019, 5:04 pm

Quite possibly Mac ... and I strongly suspect Koepka looks at his career as a hunt for majors and little else at this point.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 20 Nov 2019, 6:33 pm

1).Seriously doubt Koepka would have pulled out of Ryder Cup at this stage.
2).If anyone had, highly questionable whether Fowler would have been the replacement - assume he's now promising he'll put Mrs F down and dust off his clubs after a 3-month hiatus.

DJ's fitness still in doubt.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 20 Nov 2019, 7:47 pm

The first quarter of the Tour season will be in the books after this week's trip to Sea Island, one of Georgia's gorgeous (so I've heard) Golden Isles.

Not the greatest field you'll ever see but several better-known pros on hand are deep in the bowels of the owgr rankings, teasing us as to whether they're serious about returning to the top level.
e.g.:
#64: Noren
105: Knox
123: Harman
174: Zach Johnson
197: Henley - hope he's checking his balls this week after last week's costly error.
223: Dufner
306: Kirk
312: Chappell
427: Haas
428: Donald

Clearly Noren & Knox are the pick of the scanty European entry.
Should be good weather and the Seaside & Plantation courses will doubtless look beautiful. The courses fit the profile of the top-ranked contestants pretty well: Simpson, Kuchar, Kisner, Hadwin, Horschel and last year's play-off winner, CHIII.

I kinda like the look of Billy Horschel, perhaps with Frittelli as a decent e.w. bet.

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Post by pedro on Wed 20 Nov 2019, 7:54 pm

McLaren wrote:Koepka claiming a wrist injury and Rickie in to replace him. Doubt he is injured that badly.
Think he heard he was to be paired with Reed.

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Post by ralphjohn69 on Wed 20 Nov 2019, 11:34 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:1).Seriously doubt Koepka would have pulled out of Ryder Cup at this stage.
2).If anyone had, highly questionable whether Fowler would have been the replacement - assume he's now promising he'll put Mrs F down and dust off his clubs after a 3-month hiatus.

DJ's fitness still in doubt.

It completely confirms the lack of interest & appeal in this event, by anyone really, especially when compared to the Ryder Cup; despite what some on here might think the Presidents Cup has virtually zero importance, even to those playing in it.

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Post by Shotrock on Wed 20 Nov 2019, 11:48 pm

Kwin's opinion "completely confirms the lack of interest and appeal in this event"? Wow ... some might call that view a tad myopic, but count me as mighty impressed!

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Post by super_realist on Thu 21 Nov 2019, 7:56 am

Shotrock wrote:Kwin's opinion "completely confirms the lack of interest and appeal in this event"? Wow ... some might call that view a tad myopic, but count me as mighty impressed!

Where's the media coverage of the Presidents Cup? Where's the TV schedule? Where's the sponsors? Where's the players desperate to tee it up in the event? Nowhere. Compare that to the Ryder Cup. Even the ROI are more interested in the Ryder Cup than the Presidents Cup.

This is a niche event which holds very little interest in the golf world at all.


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Post by McLaren on Thu 21 Nov 2019, 11:20 am

Super

How would we know what publicity the PC gets in other regions around the world?
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Post by super_realist on Thu 21 Nov 2019, 11:31 am

McLaren wrote:Super

How would we know what publicity the PC gets in other regions around the world?

The same way I find out about other things in the world. I know you've just hatched out of an egg, but there are more media outlets than just those in the UK.

Is there any evidence that the Presidents Cup is a big thing? Not that I've seen, I'm happy enough for you to change my mind by providing some, but then again you've never been good at that have you?

I just looked up ABC (Australia). The most recent news story they have about the PC is  from 8th November and Botox picking himself. Considering its being held there, that's pretty telling about the lack of interest.

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Post by McLaren on Thu 21 Nov 2019, 12:07 pm

I would argue it is quite hard to pick up the mood and anticipation for an even but just looking at a couple of online newspaper articles.
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Post by super_realist on Thu 21 Nov 2019, 12:14 pm

Mac, I asked specifically where in the media a fuss is being made of the Presidents Cup in relation to how much interest in it.
I provided a prime example of where there is little to no interest.
As usual, you can't show me anything to the contrary.

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Post by McLaren on Thu 21 Nov 2019, 12:26 pm

Super

I think we would agree that the PC doesn't get the same wider attention outside of the game that the RC does, but that doesn't mean the PC garners no interest. If we judged the merits of all golf tournaments on how much the fans and media pay attention to them (both within and outside the core golf world) you would have to cancel 90% of the PGAT, and pretty much all the ET.

For a golf tournament the PC will get a bit more attention from the fans and media than most, does it matter if that is still not very much in general?

Most golf tournaments are not written about outside the period over which they occur, most golf media outlets have been covering aspects of the PC for some time now so it is somewhat ahead of the game in that respect.

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Post by pedro on Thu 21 Nov 2019, 12:46 pm

Well there's hardly anything on the PC on golfchannel.com and pgatour.com. And whatever there is it's all about Tiger. Even the story about the Fowler pick is about Tiger.

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Post by super_realist on Thu 21 Nov 2019, 1:11 pm

McLaren wrote:Super

I think we would agree that the PC doesn't get the same wider attention outside of the game that the RC does, but that doesn't mean the PC garners no interest. If we judged the merits of all golf tournaments on how much the fans and media pay attention to them (both within and outside the core golf world) you would have to cancel 90% of the PGAT, and pretty much all the ET.

For a golf tournament the PC will get a bit more attention from the fans and media than most, does it matter if that is still not very much in general?

Most golf tournaments are not written about outside the period over which they occur, most golf media outlets have been covering aspects of the PC for some time now so it is somewhat ahead of the game in that respect.


Christ Mac, I said very little interest, and I've not seen anything that suggests otherwise.
Ryder Cup, Open and Masters are talked about ages in advance
The contention was that it was only Kwini's opinion that the PC is small fry, yet evidently it is not. Why don't you try reading for a change instead of charging in?

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Post by McLaren on Thu 21 Nov 2019, 4:13 pm

If you read my post you will see that I pretty much agree that the PC is small fry, the point is that most golf tournaments are small fry. I would expect the PC to be followed by those who follow the PGAT on a weekly basis, it is not going to draw in extra fans. I guess my contention is whether or not the PC is small fry withing the golf world, you talk about it as if it has even less prestige than the smaller ET and PGAT events. I am not so sure, I would say it is probably about the equivalent of the bay hill.
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Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 21 Nov 2019, 4:26 pm

McLaren wrote:If you read my post you will see that I pretty much agree that the PC is small fry, the point is that most golf tournaments are small fry.  I would expect the PC to be followed by those who follow the PGAT on a weekly basis, it is not going to draw in extra fans.  I guess my contention is whether or not the PC is small fry withing the golf world, you talk about it as if it has even less prestige than the smaller ET and PGAT events.  I am not so sure, I would say it is probably about the equivalent of the bay hill.


At the risk of aggravating some fellow US posters, I would say that the PC is a bigger deal in the US than you might think.
For unfathomable reasons, US sponsors and viewers seem to prefer a dominating performance against a weaker team than a competitive match between two teams less well known.
You can see that from this White House down. Bigger is always best. Even when it's not.

In shamateur basketball, Duke University against the blind school will always attract more attention than competition between teams a notch below the top level.
The Presidents Cup is right up that street, especially when Tiger Woods is involved.
Though golf fans will largely much prefer to watch Bay Hill.

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Post by Shotrock on Thu 21 Nov 2019, 9:37 pm

Agree with all that Kwin. My guess is that it will grow even further in popularity as the International Teams wins more.

Super: Media Coverage? Sponsors? TV Schedule? I assume Google works in your neck of the woods.

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Post by ralphjohn69 on Thu 21 Nov 2019, 10:27 pm

Shotrock wrote:Kwin's opinion "completely confirms the lack of interest and appeal in this event"? Wow ... some might call that view a tad myopic, but count me as mighty impressed!

No, Koepka pulling out with some made up injury confirms the lack of interest, even among the players, in this event. No chance he'd pull out of the Ryder Cup 3 weeks in advance, he'd be trying everything to make sure he could play. Because the Ryder Cup is meaningful to golf fans across the world, the Presidents Cup just isn't.

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Post by GPB on Fri 22 Nov 2019, 2:47 am

I can tell you that there is very little interest in the RtD here.

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Post by super_realist on Fri 22 Nov 2019, 7:45 am

GPB wrote:I can tell you that there is very little interest in the RtD here.

Nobody claimed there was. I don't think people even care about it here either, much like the global interest in the PC.

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Post by super_realist on Fri 22 Nov 2019, 7:47 am

Shotrock wrote:Agree with all that Kwin. My guess is that it will grow even further in popularity as the International Teams wins more.

Super: Media Coverage? Sponsors? TV Schedule? I assume Google works in your neck of the woods.

Yes, I've looked. I'm not saying there is no coverage or hype, just that it's incredibly low key. As a sports event, it's right down at the bottom.

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Post by McLaren on Fri 22 Nov 2019, 10:29 am

super_realist wrote:As a sports event, it's right down at the bottom.

But that isn't true, unless you count almost all PGAT events as "right down at the bottom".
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Post by Shotrock on Fri 22 Nov 2019, 1:20 pm

Ralph - How do you know Koepka's injury is made up? How do you know the Ryder Cup is "meaningful" to golf fans all over the world, but the President's cup "just isn't?"

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Post by GPB on Fri 22 Nov 2019, 4:30 pm

Watch out Viktor.

Your 69 or better streak might be in jeopardy!

Brendon Todd with 10 consecutive rounds in the 60's

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Post by McLaren on Fri 22 Nov 2019, 4:35 pm

Shotrock wrote:Ralph - How do you know Koepka's injury is made up? How do you know the Ryder Cup is "meaningful" to golf fans all over the world, but the President's cup "just isn't?"

Remember when McIlroy admitted he thought of the RC as an exhibition?
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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 22 Nov 2019, 7:28 pm

McLaren wrote:
Shotrock wrote:Ralph - How do you know Koepka's injury is made up? How do you know the Ryder Cup is "meaningful" to golf fans all over the world, but the President's cup "just isn't?"

Remember when McIlroy admitted he thought of the RC as an exhibition?

Until he played in it, don't think he'd say that now.

One of the problems with the Presidents Cup is that it's organised by the PGA Tour, pretty much for the PGA Tour and to the PGA Tour's rules, even down to the courses chosen. Sure Nick Price got that moderated slightly but it's still comes across as an exhibition even if it isn't.
After all, it was Jason Day who said he hasn't been able to get excited about the PC in the past. (Tho I suppose some might say that's like Woods at the RC.)

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Post by GPB on Fri 22 Nov 2019, 7:51 pm

When you boil it down, the Ryder Cup is an exhibition.

A highly competitive one, but still an exhibition.

What do you get for winning it? Its not part of the qualifications for Hall of Fame. It does not extend a players exemption for either the PGA Tour or European Tour. Did it help Brett Wetterich's or Jarmo Sandelin's career?

But you can't even say it is a World Class exhibition because 25-30% of the population cannot play in it.

Yes, the PC is an exhibition

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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 22 Nov 2019, 7:55 pm

The Good, The Bad and The Ugly from Europeans at the RSM:
Great to see Alex Noren find some form with a 64.

Donald & Knox should just about Squeak into the weekend, on the number.

And: Sepp Straka who might be good or just an occasional flash in the pan, embarrassed himself with a +10 effort (after 17 holes, so it could get worse).

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Post by pedro on Fri 22 Nov 2019, 10:24 pm

GPB, players in the Ryder Cup usually don’t bother about exemptions. And the HoF is purely an American thing. But if there was one in Europe Poulter would be in it, for his RC merits alone.

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Post by ralphjohn69 on Sat 23 Nov 2019, 12:12 am

Shotrock wrote:Ralph - How do you know Koepka's injury is made up? How do you know the Ryder Cup is "meaningful" to golf fans all over the world, but the President's cup "just isn't?"

I don't, it's my informed opinion based on my knowledge of golf; you can disagree if you want, it won't change my opinion.

But if you think Koepka would have pulled out of the Ryder Cup 3 weeks ahead of it with a "debatable" injury then you're off your trolley, he'd have been trying everything to make himself available.

Watch & compare the players and their demeanour, the fans, the general atmosphere at a Ryder Cup and compare it to a Presidents Cup and it's night & day; one matters and the other doesn't.  You can argue whether it should matter or not all you want, fact is the Ryder Cup is important and the Presidents Cup isn't.  And as long as the PGA insist on running the Presidents Cup to favour the USA team to the detriment of the International Team then it will never change.

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Post by ralphjohn69 on Sat 23 Nov 2019, 12:18 am

kwinigolfer wrote:
McLaren wrote:
Shotrock wrote:Ralph - How do you know Koepka's injury is made up? How do you know the Ryder Cup is "meaningful" to golf fans all over the world, but the President's cup "just isn't?"

Remember when McIlroy admitted he thought of the RC as an exhibition?

Until he played in it, don't think he'd say that now.

One of the problems with the Presidents Cup is that it's organised by the PGA Tour, pretty much for the PGA Tour and to the PGA Tour's rules, even down to the courses chosen. Sure Nick Price got that moderated slightly but it's still comes across as an exhibition even if it isn't.
After all, it was Jason Day who said he hasn't been able to get excited about the PC in the past. (Tho I suppose some might say that's like Woods at the RC.)

Watch Woods in the 1997 and, especially, the 1999 Ryder Cups and tell me he's not excited by it, this myth that he doesn't care has coincided with his, and the US team's, generally dreadful record over the past 20 years.

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Post by super_realist on Sat 23 Nov 2019, 7:35 am

GPB wrote:When you boil it down, the Ryder Cup is an exhibition.

A highly competitive one, but still an exhibition.  

What do you get for winning it?  Its not part of the qualifications for Hall of Fame.  It does not extend a players exemption for either the PGA Tour or European Tour.  Did it help Brett Wetterich's or Jarmo Sandelin's career?

But you can't even say it is a World Class exhibition because 25-30% of the population cannot play in it.

Yes, the PC is an exhibition

I think people give even less of a toss about the HoF than they do about the Presidents Cup.

After the Majors, the Ryder Cup is the biggest event, it may actually be bigger than some of the majors and is certainly one of the biggest events in all sport. The Presidents Cup is not even in the same division.

You don't "get" anything for winning lots of sporting events, but it doesn't mean it's an "exhibition".


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Post by GPB on Sat 23 Nov 2019, 11:19 pm

You win money (and exemptions) for winning just about any pro golf tournament.

I agree that the PC is not as big as the RC or the Majors.  Well Duh!

It might not even be in the Top 10 events this year, but I think it is definitely in the Top 15.  And considering there are 100's of Pro events on various Professional Tour, IMO that qualifies it as a big event.

I can tell you that the Prez Cup is being heavily promoted by the Golf Channel here in the USA, and I suspect it is being promoted heavily in Australia too.  It is being conducted at Royal Melbourne (for the third time) which is ranked #3 on Golf Digest International Ranking (well ahead of any of any of Europe's host courses in the last 30 years.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/worlds-100-greatest-golf-courses

The more you try to denigrate the event, the more I think you are trying to convince yourself than any of us

The RC and PC are still exhibitions and both of them exclude much of the world's population from playing.

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Post by Shotrock on Sun 24 Nov 2019, 12:09 am

Brendon. Todd. I mean, what gives here? Perhaps he's a world class golfer but a very slow starter?

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Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 24 Nov 2019, 9:55 pm

PGA Tour season over for the year, with Tyler Duncan winning the play-off against Webb Simpson.
That Webby's fourth runner-up finish in less than 6 months.

Good finishes by Noren & Norlander - if Noren is intent on regaining his card, he'll take the opportunity to take his Top Ten exemption into the Sony Open in Hawaii.

Always tat that "Seaside" course is my idea of a US coastal course, love the look of that place. Just need a couple of mil (or more) to buy a place there.

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Post by super_realist on Mon 25 Nov 2019, 8:18 am

GPB wrote:You win money (and exemptions) for winning just about any pro golf tournament.

I agree that the PC is not as big as the RC or the Majors.  Well Duh!

It might not even be in the Top 10 events this year, but I think it is definitely in the Top 15.  And considering there are 100's of Pro events on various Professional Tour, IMO that qualifies it as a big event.

I can tell you that the Prez Cup is being heavily promoted by the Golf Channel here in the USA, and I suspect it is being promoted heavily in Australia too.  It is being conducted at Royal Melbourne (for the third time) which is ranked #3 on Golf Digest International Ranking (well ahead of any of any of Europe's host courses in the last 30 years.

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/worlds-100-greatest-golf-courses

The more you try to denigrate the event, the more I think you are trying to convince yourself than any of us

The RC and PC are still exhibitions and both of them exclude much of the world's population from playing.

Jesus Christ, now you are trying to use the ranking of the venue of the PC to add credence to the event? Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh

Venues for the Ryder Cup are chosen on a myriad of different factors, the rankings of that course is absolutely effing irrelevant. That's as hilarious as it is pathetic. Seeing as you went down that laughable line of argument though, Muirfield, no4 on your list has also held the Ryder Cup, so stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Botox Woods had to pick himself for goodness sake to raise the interest in this non event.

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Post by GPB on Mon 25 Nov 2019, 2:25 pm

Muirfield has hosted a Ryder Cup in the last 30 years? News to me.

Yes, I think venues are a part of the equation. The Prez Cup at Royal Melbourne hold more interest to me than it would if it were held at the Perth Sheep Track.

Look at the last few Ryder Cup venues. Classic Courses! So classic that those courses have fallen (or nearly disappeared) from the EuroTour schedule. But Celtic Manor can always claim that they hosted a Ryder Cup. WOO HOO

BTW...no one gave a rats Bum about the Ryder Cup for the first 60 years of its existence. It certainly was not one of the top 10 events of the year until the mid 80's

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Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 25 Nov 2019, 2:32 pm

Careful, GPB, exactly how many Presidents Cup venues are regular stops on the PGA Tour?


Perhaps one difference is that the European PGA recognised the RC WAS uncompetitive and took the initiative to recommend changes. No sign of that happening with the PC, largely because the PC is run by the PGA Tour and it's not about the competition, it's about the win baby.

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Post by I'm never wrong on Mon 25 Nov 2019, 3:18 pm

super_realist wrote:Venues for the Ryder Cup are chosen on a myriad of different factors
Isn't the biggest money? I thought Italy got the next one in Europe because they stumped a load of money for it and made the Italian Open a Rolex series event.

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Post by GPB on Mon 25 Nov 2019, 5:56 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Careful, GPB, exactly how many Presidents Cup venues are regular stops on the PGA Tour?


Perhaps one difference is that the European PGA recognised the RC WAS uncompetitive and took the initiative to recommend changes. No sign of that happening with the PC, largely because the PC is run by the PGA Tour and it's not about the competition, it's about the win baby.

All of the US Sites and one Int'l site that have hosted Prez Cups (RTJ, Harding Park, Muirfield Village, Liberty National, and Royal Montreal), have hosted PGATournaments.

And Harding Park is hosting a future PGA.

Do you not think that a more competitive Prez Cup would benefit the Prez Cup and therefore the PGATour?

Take you tinfoil hat off for a moment and realize that the International Teams haven't been very good. Other than a Jason Day Purple Patch, there really has not been any dominant International players since Norman and Price.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 25 Nov 2019, 6:55 pm

Tin foil chapeau? Mon dieu? What the F is that?

Els has more Majors than either of the two you mention. And don't get me started on Jason Day who doesn't give a toss about the PC and has been pretty vocal about it.

Ah, yes. Forgot about Muirfield Village, but none of the others you mention host PGA Tour events on any sort of regular basis. Certainly not in comparison to the strings of Tour events held at Gleneagles, Celtic Manor, The Belfry, Valderama & the Paris course.

Last time they played at Royal Melbourne I really thought the Internationals would win, until two or three of the Asian players, who some team members didn't even know, turned up late and I think one of them, possibly KT Kim, was too late to play a practice round.

First thing I'd do is let the International Federations choose the rules and stop the made-for-TV nonsense that the Commissioner du jour play to. And hold the matches in South Africa for a change. The TV ads for the PC have been full of replays of the tie and match between Woods & Els - only trouble is, the PGA Tour stays away for some reason; pretty much an insult to the Saffers who by and large come to play, whereas the Aussies don't seem to care, Adam Scott possibly excepted.

Of course a more competitive PC would benefit all concerned, but there's no pretense to make it competitive.

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Post by pedro on Mon 25 Nov 2019, 11:03 pm

I would guess the yanks wouldn’t like to travel so Saf - for safety reasons.
And maybe there’s something about the time difference in relation to TV.

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