England's Winter

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 2:22 pm

First topic message reminder :

New Zealand

T20 Internationals

Friday November 1st - Christchurch
Sunday November 3rd - Wellington
Tuesday November 5th - Nelson
Friday November 8th - Napier
Sunday November 10th - Auckland

Squad
Eoin Morgan (Middlesex) captain
Jonny Bairstow (Yorkshire)
Tom Banton (Somerset)
Sam Billings (Kent)
Pat Brown (Worcestershire)
Sam Curran (Surrey)
Tom Curran (Surrey)
Joe Denly (Kent)
Lewis Gregory (Somerset)
Chris Jordan (Sussex)
Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire)
Dawid Malan (Middlesex)
Matt Parkinson (Lancashire)
Adil Rashid (Yorkshire)
James Vince (Hampshire)


Tests

Wednesday November 20th - Tauranga
Thursday November 28th - Hamilton

Squad
Joe Root (Yorkshire) captain
Jofra Archer (Sussex)
Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire)
Rory Burns (Surrey)
Jos Buttler (Lancashire)
Zak Crawley (Kent)
Sam Curran (Surrey)
Joe Denly (Kent)
Jack Leach (Somerset)
Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire)
Matthew Parkinson (Lancashire)
Ollie Pope (Surrey)
Dominic Sibley (Warwickshire)
Ben Stokes (Durham)
Chris Woakes (Warwickshire)



South Africa

Tests

Thursday 26th December - Centurion
Friday January 3rd - Cape Town
Thursday January 16th - Port Elizabeth
Friday January 24th - Johannesburg

Squad
TBC


ODI
Tuesday 4th February - Cape Town
Friday 7th February - Durban
Sunday 9th February - Johannesburg

Squad
TBC



T20 Internationals

Wednesday 12th February - East London
Friday 14th February - Durban
Sunday 16th February - Centurion


Sri Lanka

Nothing Official yet


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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 7:26 am

Looks like he needs a break from T20.

Malan though...wowzers. As noted the other day he already has an impressive record in T20i's but that was one of those innings that sets a batsman apart as someone who really could lift Englands batting further. The world cups likely hisnlastbchancenfor international glory too, surprisingly few caps in all formats despite having done a decent job when given chances.
His comments about moving to Yorkshire to not finish his career plodding along show he has the fire and knows it's really his last chance.
YJB conversely is getting all the chances and not doing much with them ( 50 over world cup aside!) Malans targeted a test recall too, and his name has been floated about for that. Whilst a friendly T20 century is about as relevant to test places as KPs Twitter opinions there could be a rivalry flbrewing between the two teammates across the formats.

And yes Banton has got a score. Overshadowed by Malan and Morgan but helps make the case for him to get a spot in the next series.

Englands bowlers now ripping through NZ after they hit Scurran out of the attack. Jordan's proving me and a lot of others wrong, hes delivering with the ball again. Hes another who's really cemented himself as a regular pick.

In still struggling to see what Billings is doing in an England shirt mind. If this tour was about blooding 20/21 year olds theres plenty of batsmen keepers out there to be Jos Buttlers stand reserve.

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 7:35 am

JDizzle ...
From the first choice 11 it would be Root feeling the most pressure. It's the weakest of the formats for him, hes never really been able to score at the rate we saw Malan do today.
If I were picking and England side today I'd have
Roy, Bairstow, Malan, Morgan, Stokes, Buttler, Moeen, T Curran, Archer, Rashid, Jordan

Ask me on another day after a different game and I'd probably give a different answer but Malan is offering some good competition for a place and should be keeping the senior bats on point and focused rather than assuming they have spots.
The bowling is a bit more up in the air, Mo is hard to leave out for ballance but so inconsistent. TCurran always competing against the dogmatic desire to have a left armer in the side and his brothers batting, as well as Wood who England always go back to.
Right now it's certainly hard to see how those 11 p wont make the world cup squad, but things can change over the coming season.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 7:42 am

New Yorkshire man to put pressure on the Yorkshire golden boy

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 7:45 am

Things happening very quickly with 3 wickets for a lot of runs off Parkinson! I guess it's the classic leggies job when defending a big total, you can leak runs so long as you take wickets. NZ looking like they will finish miles short now despite Southee being 26 off 8 balls!

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Post by JDizzle on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 7:57 am

Gooseberry wrote:JDizzle ...
From the first choice 11 it would be Root feeling the most pressure. It's the weakest of the formats for him, hes never really been able to score at the rate we saw Malan do today.
If I were picking and England side today I'd have
Roy, Bairstow, Malan, Morgan, Stokes, Buttler, Moeen, T Curran, Archer,  Rashid, Jordan

Ask me on another day after a different game and I'd probably give a different answer but Malan is offering some good competition for a place and should be keeping the senior bats on point and focused rather than assuming they have spots.
The bowling is a bit more up in the air, Mo is hard to leave out for ballance but so inconsistent. TCurran always competing against the dogmatic desire to have a left armer in the side and his brothers batting, as well as Wood who England always go back to.
Right now it's certainly hard to see how those 11 p wont make the world cup squad, but things can change over the coming season.

I just think you are wasting Buttler at 6. He is probably our best T20 player and has excellent as an opener, rough to drop him down where he can’t impact the game as much. I agree Malan has probably gone ahead of Root this series, although Root will probably get his chance. I guess you just bat your bloke who plays pace best at 6 in that top 6, as he will most likely be facing pace at the death.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 8:21 am

Decided to go back to bed when Banton got out. Not my wisest decision
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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 8:53 am

Jos Buttler has not played a T20I this year, but having batted as a finisher for most of his England T20 career, his last five matches saw him open.

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 9:22 am

LondonTiger wrote:Jos Buttler has not played a T20I this year, but having batted as a finisher for most of his England T20 career, his last five matches saw him open.

This again points to what I was trying to say about Banton, he might be a talented youngster but theres such strong competition hes going to have to produce some big performances in a relatively small number of matches to force his way into the world cup squad. lets not forget Hales still exists too, although he has some even bigger barriers to overcome to be back in consideration. 

Its really hard to tell where England would see Buttlker in the batting order, they haven't put out a full first choice side in T20 since the last world cup, and Bairstows really grown as a force in white ball cricket over the past couple of years. Whilst thats mostly been in ODIs for England he also tore apart the IPL last year, so you'd see him and Roy as the lead contenders for openers spots. 
I guess I just had Buttler down in 6 in the team I hastily skecthed out as a reaction to Malans innings and Jordan getting a wicket because its more normal to have the keeper mid order and as noted hes traditionally been the finisher for England in white ball cricket. maybe he could come in ahead of Stokes or in that top two as an option, but I guess the overiding point is that England have an a nice problem trying to fit so many players into the top 4. 

Worth noting as well that Morgans score came at an even faster rate than Malans and hes only missed out on being the headline grabber by falling just shy of his own century. Another one whos absolutely proving he can score fast and big against decent attacks.


4 wickets for Parkinson in the end, Curran got the last couple of overs against the tail to massage his match figures to something respectable.
Dominant display all round for England, set up by the incredible batting and then Jordan stemming tide first change.

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 10:19 am

I guess not too much should be read into Parkinson's performance. Defending that sort of total will tend to give spinners wickets (Certainly Dilly has benefited in the past). Looking at CricInfo's commentary:

Parkinson to de Grandhomme, OUT, breakthrough! Parkinson entices de Grandhomme, he tried top sent that over long-on but Tom Banton is down ther e just inside the rope and takes a straightforward catch.
C de Grandhomme c Banton b Parkinson 7 (7m 3b 0x4 1x6) SR: 233.33

Parkinson to Munro, OUT, and another! Munro shapes to sweep, he sends it high and it's swallowed by midwicket.
C Munro c Brown b Parkinson 30 (37m 21b 3x4 0x6) SR: 142.85

Parkinson to Mitchell, OUT, Oh and another one!. It's tossed up. Mitchell didn't get enough on that and he finds the toe of the bat. Chris Jordan running across from long-off has safe hands and takes it.
DJ Mitchell c Jordan b Parkinson 2 (10m 5b 0x4 0x6) SR: 40.00

Parkinson to Southee, OUT, struck on the pads - given! Looked pretty good on first glance but Southee reviews; no bat on it as he swung hard across the line once again, the slider from Parkinson goes straight on and would have smacked the middle of middle, according to Hawk-Eye. Parkinson gets his fourth!
TG Southee lbw b Parkinson 39 (15m 15b 2x4 4x6) SR: 260.00

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 11:37 am

Yeah LT very expensive for his wickets, but when you're defending a massive total that's all good and frankly spinners are there to be fodder in this sort of game. Moeens built a career on putting the ball where it can be hit and encouraging batsmen to get themselves out.
Still have to hope Rashids shoulder problems arent going to hamper him long term unless the youngster can find a way to control scoring and remain a threat though.

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Post by Mat on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 12:44 pm

Caught a couple of overs this morning and although they did have to go after him, I was impressed with the temperament of Parkinson. De Grandhomme had plonked the previous ball into the stands for 6 and as a young leggie, even with that total, you'd be tempted to fire in a flatter one but he gave the ball air again and got his reward for it.

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Post by JDizzle on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 6:02 pm

Huge boundaries in Aus where the WT20 is should favour Parkinson too. Bit different to some of the postage stamps (beautiful postage stamps!) in NZ.

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Post by guildfordbat on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 7:55 pm

Parky would actually have got a fifth if JD's lad Brown hadn't dropped a straightforward chance in the deep!

A guy I like in the Sky studio is the Kiwi James Franklin. Talks a lot of sense. Especially liked his point the other day that the new England players coming in need to show they merit a place in the full strength team rather than just a place in the squad. He was especially referring to the batsmen after their showing in Nelson and emphasising that match winning performances are what will cut it for them rather than 20s and 30s. Malan certainly seems to have got that message!

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 8:29 pm

Oh right I say it and get teased...James Franklin says and he talks a lot of sense.

Finnnnnne Wink

In regard to the ground sizes in Aus itll be interesting to see how much they bring the boundary ropes in ( for India). England have struggled at times when they couldnt 6 hit their way out of trouble, but theres more gaps for " proper batsmen" to hit 2s and 3s on the big grounds.

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Post by guildfordbat on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 11:06 pm

Goose - there's been no teasing on that from me. Just maybe it might have something to do with the different way in which you and Franklin say it. Smile

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Post by alfie on Sat 09 Nov 2019, 5:03 am

Having watched the NZ innings yesterday I have to say I was rather impressed with Parkinson - whose figures actually do not do him justice. As guildford notes , he was deprived of a fifth wicket by Brown's failure to gather a real sitter ...but he also conceded a couple of boundaries to bad fielding errors during Southee's assault ; and incidentally had a clear lbw turned down earlier (though he must wear part of the blame there for not making a better case for a review ! Still not quite sure why England didn't call for one )
Mat praises his temperament in continuing to go for wickets and I agree : he was ready to keep throwing the ball up despite the attacking bats - and got his rewards. Far rather see a spin bowler take them on like that than just try to contain ...though obviously it remains to be seen whether he can translate this into a successful method in the longer formats , quite apart from backing up this effort.

But so far I like what I see.

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Post by Afro on Sat 09 Nov 2019, 9:51 am

Gooseberry wrote:Oh right I say it and get teased...James Franklin says and he talks a lot of sense.

Finnnnnne Wink

In regard to the ground sizes in Aus itll be interesting to see how much they bring the boundary ropes in ( for India). England have struggled at times when they couldnt 6 hit their way out of trouble, but theres more gaps for " proper batsmen"  to hit 2s and 3s on the big grounds.

Sorry didn’t mean it to come across as teasing. I agree with you.

I think having probably seen more of Banton than most, I think he is a special talent and I think England need to be patient with him if he doesn’t score runs straight away, as he is worth having that patience.

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Post by alfie on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 3:15 am

The decider has been rain reduced to eleven overs a side...probably lucky to get on the field at all...

Currans may not think so at the moment : their first two overs have gone for 37 as Guptill swings freely. And Jordan is faring no better as he's gone for 17 off his first four balls !

A dot ball at last and it is 55/0 off three overs. Looks like being a hefty chase later for England...

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Post by alfie on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 3:38 am

Rashid and Mahmood have brought it back a bit with a couple of wickets but the hundred is up in the eighth over...

Rashid 1/34 from his three. 110/2 and Jordan and the Currans will hope to keep the last three under fifty , I guess.

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Post by alfie on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 3:56 am

Good finish from Tom Curran keeps NZ to 146/5. Looks a stiff task for England ...I don't fancy their chances of running that down unless someone goes berserk , but the straight boundaries aren't too long so who knows ?

Notable that Vince held two catches in the outfield today so perhaps it is his day Smile

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Post by alfie on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 4:12 am

Not a great start for England.  Banton lbw despite a review - which actually showed the ball would just have kissed the stump , but given on field...and Vince gone second ball so it's 9/2 in the second over...

Think NZ have a good grip on this.


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Post by alfie on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 4:24 am

Morgan has picked up where he left off in Napier...6 4 6 off Boult...but now he's holed out to long off.

With Billings in at five the Tail is Long...39/3 off three and the game is all but gone...

Edit : not Billings. Sam Curran has come in at five to try and work a miracle. Good luck with that .

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Post by alfie on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 4:31 am

Kuggeleijn going round the park...Sam Curran feasting on some short stuff with twenty from his over. But they are still up against it needing another 79 off six overs...

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Post by alfie on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 4:35 am

Now Bairstow launches at Sodhi...6 6 6 ...ends up 22 off that over . Fifty partnership in 17 balls.

Need 57 off five. Only just over eleven per over now...

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Post by alfie on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 4:43 am

Bairstow gone now (47 from 18) trying to run one to third man and that swings it back NZ's way...
Four overs left , need 47 , but running out of wickets.

Now Curran is brilliantly stumped off a wide and Gregory and Billings have it all to do...

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Post by alfie on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 4:48 am

Gregory 6 ...Gregory out. All action here...

If Billings is ever going to play an innings for England this would be a good time Smile

Need 36 from the last three. Someone needs to be clearing the ropes...

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Post by alfie on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 4:53 am

Clever over from Boult. Need 26 from the last two...

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Post by alfie on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 4:59 am

Good from Southee too...only ten off it so 16 needed from the last.

No pressure , Neesham Smile

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Post by alfie on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 5:03 am

2-1-wicket...reckon that's it. England haven't been able to hit the big shots at the end. Reckon Jordan - who is coming in now - might have come in earlier...he hits his first ball for six over cover !

Need seven off two balls...

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Post by alfie on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 5:05 am

A two...

Last ball coming : four would bring a super over...

And that is what we have! What a finish from Jordan , 6.2.4 ...

Take a breath.

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Post by alfie on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 5:09 am

Think I'd have left Jordan out there for this ...but it appears it will be Bairstow and Morgan .
Presume Boult will bowl ?

No idea who will bowl for England when it's their turn. They all got hammered earlier...

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Post by alfie on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 5:21 am

Actually it is Southee. Skipper taking the responsibility...

Jonny a single...Morgan a six...and a single...Jonny a six...and a single...Last ball Morgan gets two. Seventeen from the over. One more than the World Cup Smile

Guptill and Seifert for NZ , with CdG padded up.


No Archer today so who gets the job for England ? Tom Curran warming up...but so is Jordan. And it is Jordan to bowl.

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Post by alfie on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 5:23 am

Two for Seifert...and a wide to follow. And a four. Advantage NZ...

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Post by alfie on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 5:27 am

A dot. (Precious !) And now a brilliant outfield catch from Morgan !

NZ now need ten from two balls to get a tie...

Don't bowl another wide Chris Smile

Just a single ...England have this now. Last ball a dot and England win by 8 runs no need to count the boundaries Smile

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Post by alfie on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 5:29 am

Not sure what an eleven over game really means but it was fun for everyone ...

England win the t20 ...or t11 ...series 3-2. Your commentator Alfie signing off from NZ thumbsup

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 9:20 am

Looks like you got a good one Alfie!

Good series and a good win for England, especially without many of the stalwart/stars.
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Post by Duty281 on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 12:00 pm

Amazing comeback from England. Should be one of the front-runners for next year's T20 World Cup (and 2021's T20 World Cup) as they have a silly number of powerful batters capable of winning any game. Banton absolutely needs to be in the starting XI.

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Post by Gooseberry on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 5:43 pm

Duty281 wrote:they have a silly number of powerful batters capable of winning any game. Banton absolutely needs to be in the starting XI.

Which (two) of Roy, Bairstow, Morgan, Root, Malan does he have to be in the side ahead of?
He scored 73 runs in 5 innings on the tour. Even Billings came out with a higher average

I do agree though that England look in good shape.
Malan has confirmed himself as a genuine contender for a starting batting spot.
Jordan has proved (me wrong) that he is a genuinely good bowler in this format and give England a death overs specialist

Theres no reason they shouldnt be the same force in T20 that they have been in ODIs when everyones available.

The only thing that really concerns me looking forward to Australia is the big grounds. England have struggled when they cant hit over fields in 50 overs cricket.

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Post by JDizzle on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 6:00 pm

Including warm up games to assess Banton’s performance is stretching things! He’ll have chances in the IPL, BBL etc to impress but he is certainly behind a few at the moment.

Think the top 7 as it stands is Buttler, Bairstow, Roy, Morgan, Stokes, Malan and Ali. In whatever order. Hopefully we will be brave enough to be flexible and move the order about to create match ups that work through the tournament. Left/Right mixes, vs spin and vs pace etc.

We did win 4-1 in the last ODI series in Aus, which shows they can adapt to the grounds there.

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 4:41 pm

Even discounting the warm ups he was out performed by Malan, Bairstow, Morgan, and Vince ( ie every batsman!) and Billings averaged more. That he got less games then all those sums up where he is in the pecking order everywhere except this thread apparently.
This is without Roy, Root and well Denly is fit again. So lets call him 7th choice for 4 spots in the first XI and 5 in the squad. Duckett could even chuck his hat back in too, he did play in the T20 prior to this.

But yes the franchise leagues give Banton the opportunity to press a case to be given another go.

The new caps have not made the sort of immediate impact Archer did on debut. Which is understandable as all but Scurran are at a much earlier stage in their careers.

The guys who shone are Malan and Jordan, which really has lessened the chances of the kids breaking in.

Parkinson did take good wickets, but only got two T20s which again shows hed down the list of priorities. Mahmood is behind TCurran, Wood, Archer and Jordan as a fast(ish) bowler still. England may still be interested by that may partly depend on how much fire Plunkett has left in him, Stones fitness and if they see Woakes as an option in this format again.

Although I have my reservations about him I see SCurran as the one most likely to get into the core T20 squad. Hes a left armer, and it looks like they do see him as a power hitting finisher. He didn't do a great deal with his chances but is surely ahead of Gregory who is looking at a similar option bowler/slugger role.

Leaving our Root would be a big call but at the moment I agree it looks on. There will be pressure on him to try and play very expensively when he gets a chance. And Mo ..its quite possible England will look to play just one spinner as they did here. That's where SCuarran/Gregory/Woakes comes in to consideration at 7 as the fifth bowler. Although dare I say Stokes has a pretty awful record in T20i's....

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 10:17 pm

Apparently Malan is number 3 in the t20i batting ratings now, for what they are worth with so few played and so many big players rotated.
Bairstow got a demerit for swearing

Englands first warm up is delayed for rain.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 6:20 am

Hundreds for Sibley and Crawley in the first warm up game - excellent work
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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 6:57 am

Only a warm it doesnt count. It is worth noting it's a very inexperienced attack they are facing, one of the opening bowlers hasn't even got a cricinfo profile yet.
All the same a heartening start for the two uncapped bats and hopefully confidence they can take forward.
Roots making runs too.



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Post by JDizzle on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 8:02 am

You can say warm up’s don’t count sarcastically Goose, but they by definition don’t matter. At least we can include Steve Smith’s failure vs Derbyshire now in his Ashes average, so his figures don’t look as good.

Good for them to get some runs in England colours, might make them feel a little more confident when the real thing starts. But as you say, the competition wasn’t much cop. It might make it tougher for England to put Denly in if he is fit if Crawley has made runs in the warm ups though.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 9:45 am

The NZ bowling attack had 85 first class wickets between them. The guy with the most has 43 - the same number of first class wickets as Joe Root.

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Post by king_carlos on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 1:10 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Apparently Malan is number 3 in the t20i batting ratings now, for what they are worth with so few played and so many big players rotated.
Bairstow got a demerit for swearing

Englands first warm up is delayed for rain.
I imagine it will be worth a fair bit to Malan if he gets an IPL contract off the back of his performances.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 2:03 pm

king_carlos wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Apparently Malan is number 3 in the t20i batting ratings now, for what they are worth with so few played and so many big players rotated.
Bairstow got a demerit for swearing

Englands first warm up is delayed for rain.
I imagine it will be worth a fair bit to Malan if he gets an IPL contract off the back of his performances.

IPL/BBL contracts would be nice for him, no central contract  Rolling Eyes 

My point in regard to the rankings was more that they are a bit misleading for T20, not as reliable a measure of who the consistently best players in the format are as the test/ODI ones, more easily affected by short runs of form and who actually plays them. 

England don't have many highly rated players in the format, but most of their best have hardly played it at international level.  The team rankings too have Pakistan top, followed by Aus, England, SA, India and NZ with the West Indies way down in 10th presumably because their best players only turn up for the world cups. At the moment the five I'd see as in with a serious shout of winning it would be Aus, England, India, Pakistan, New Zealand, Windies in that order.

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Post by JDizzle on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 2:54 pm

1 Mohammad Nabi AFG 339
2 Glenn Maxwell AUS 333
3 Richard Berrington SCO 244
4 Mahmudullah BAN 225
5 Sean Williams ZIM 220
6 Zeeshan Maqsood OMA 180
7 Kevin O'Brien IRE 179
8 Collins Obuya KEN 177
9 JP Duminy SA 171
10 Rohan Mustafa UAE

The ICC T20 all rounder ratings do suggest they have a slight problem with their rankings for this format...

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 3:29 pm

BBC still has this warm up game as a 2 day one. Thought I had heard/read that rather than playing 2*two day games we were instead playing 1*four day game at Silverwood's request. Anyone know?

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 7:11 pm

Last I'd heard it was a two and a three day game so who knows

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