Ireland [1] vs Scotland [7] Pool A, Match 6, RWC 2019

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Post by bsando on Mon 16 Sep 2019, 3:20 pm

First topic message reminder :

Ireland vs Scotland

Pool A, Match 6
Sunday, September 22
Kick Off 08:45 BST
International Stadium Yokohama, Kanagawa Prefecture, Yokohama City

Teams


Ireland
Ireland [1] vs Scotland [7] Pool A, Match 6, RWC 2019 - Page 9 Downlo10

1.Healy, 2.Best (C), 3.Furlong
4.Henderson, 5.James Ryan
6.O'Mahony, 7.Van der Flier
8.Stander

9.Murray, 10.Sexton
12.Aki, 13.Ringrose
11.Stockdale, 15.Lamour, 14.Conway

Replacements: Scannell, Kilcoyne, Porter, Beirne, Conan, McGrath, Carty, Farrell

Scotland
Ireland [1] vs Scotland [7] Pool A, Match 6, RWC 2019 - Page 9 Scot10

1.Dell, 2.McInally (C), 3.Nel
4.Gilchrist, 5.Gray
6.Barclay (VC), 7.Watson, 8.Wilson

9.Laidlaw (VC), 10.Russell
12.Johnson, 13.Taylor
11.Maitland, 15.Hogg, 14.Seymour

Bench: Brown, Reid, Berghan, Cummings, Thomson, Price, Harris, Graham


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Post by reallybored on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 12:57 pm

If we don’t get out the group I hope Townsend has the grace to fall on his sword.

Has he not been watching our demise over the past 18 months? It’s the same sh|t every time: out thought and out-muscled.

Fastest game in the world doesn’t work so change the fu€king record.


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Post by Heuer27 on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 1:11 pm

Is Ritchie not still injured?

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Post by TJ on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 1:15 pm

Fastest game in the world doesn’t work so change the fu€king record

It does if the forwards get us over the gainline and thus get quick ball. I didn't see the forwards get over the gain line once.




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Post by BigGee on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 1:20 pm

Ritchie should be fit for next game, he was touch and go for this one

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Post by ronian on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 1:25 pm

Alot of players looking past it and a distinct lack of leadership today - with two former captains in the team one wonders what is going on.

Despite some of these guys being at home I think we should be playing

Hogg
Graham
Jones/Hutch
Johnson
Kinghorn
Russell
Price/Horne

Dell
McInally
Nel
R. Gray
Cummings/ J Gray
Ritchie
Watson
Fagerson/Bradbury

And ask Vern back with Toony as backs coach and Shaun Edwards as defence coach (our defence is awful)

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Post by Heuer27 on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 1:44 pm

BigGee wrote:Ritchie should be fit for next game, he was touch and go for this one

Ah, thought he would still be injured. Well full back row turnover then for me.

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Post by Heuer27 on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 1:50 pm

There has to be consequences for playing that poorly and you can’t totally blame the tactics . They are taught to play what’s in front of them. They didn’t and there has to be repercussions for that, otherwise how are they going to improve if there is no pressure to do so.

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Post by BigGee on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 1:57 pm

That has always been the issue for Scottish international players, they play badly and then get picked again the next match and given the chsnce to redeem themselves.

They used to ssy it was harder to get out of the team than to get into it, with only a hint of irony about it.

If players in NZ and SA played that badly for their national sides, they would not just get dropped, they would probably have to emigrate.

Whatever tactics Toonie put in place they surely did not involved behaving like pussycats for the first half an hour.

Surely some heads have to roll for this and if it does not improve during the tournament then that will include the coaches!

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Post by Old Man on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 2:00 pm

Very good performance by Ireland, that made a statement of intent, Congratulations.

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Post by ebop on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 2:02 pm

That was a do or die game for both teams. Ireland played the percentages that were in their favour and bored everyone watching the game to tears. But they won. That’s good coaching. Irish players played their game plan to a tee. The Scots faltered.
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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 2:11 pm

ebop wrote:That was a do or die game for both teams. Ireland played the percentages that were in their favour and bored everyone watching the game to tears. But they won. That’s good coaching. Irish players played their game plan to a tee. The Scots faltered.

Meanwhile Kiwis very relieved they dont have to play Ireland because they dont want to go home.

Ireland have scored more tries than NZ in the RWC so far last time I checked.


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Post by PredictorofTeams on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 2:12 pm

ebop wrote:That was a do or die game for both teams. Ireland played the percentages that were in their favour and bored everyone watching the game to tears. But they won. That’s good coaching. Irish players played their game plan to a tee. The Scots faltered.

Ireland made 10 linebreaks, if you think that's boring then rugby probably isn't the right game for you. Granted Ireland closed up shop when the monsoon came after the half but this is the exact kind of game intelligence Scotland lack. Ireland had a 16 point lead and Scotland were only going to get back into it off an Irish error/intercept.

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 2:15 pm

ebop wrote:That was a do or die game for both teams. Ireland played the percentages that were in their favour and bored everyone watching the game to tears. But they won. That’s good coaching. Irish players played their game plan to a tee. The Scots faltered.

It's old school raw, hard-basterde rugby.  It was a thing of rugged beauty it was - and I'm not one to overly praise our coach chosen methods.  But when it glides, it glides - and is like a HobNob biscuit rather than those cute good looking dainty little lads they put on the side of coffee saucers that melt when you eat them.

People are getting a little soft skinned in their appreciation of rugby's warlike attributes.  If we're not careful, we'll just merge with League to get the Ooh Ahh! crowd in.....

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Post by jimbopip on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 2:25 pm

Well lads, Crying or Very sad

To our Celtic cousins: well done you deserved it. clap

Just before kick off Young Pipetto and I were settling down on the sofa with the fry ups when I got a message from a rugby bud in Pukekohe wishing us luck. Hug After that things really did unravel. picard

I've tried to make sense of it: it was Twickenham all over again but without the comeback.

So, in my first year of teaching I was asked to help out with the Year 9 boys' football team. The Head of PE offered me the Van Coerver coaching videos to help me. When I asked what was so special about them he said, "In England coaches believe that if you put enough pressure on the opposition their skills break down. In Holland they believe that if you coach kids correctly they will develop their skill such that no amount of pressure will break them down. That's why England never get past the quarter finals. When they meet a team they can't bully they're knackered."

Toonie has nailed his colours to the mast of being more skilful than the opposition.

Joe Schmidt has developed a team who will destroy the opposition's game plan and score from their mistakes.

The big question is why didn't Toonie see it coming?

Or did he? At 28 minutes I asked Pipetto if Sam Johnson had run at the Irish defence yet. It seems the master plan was to get the ball into Taylor's hand as quickly as possible. This only led to runners getting isolated out wide and turned over, or hurried inaccurate passes and dropped balls.

Game set and match Ireland.

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Post by Old Man on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 2:54 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
Ireland have scored more tries than NZ in the RWC so far last time I checked.

Great barometer Rolling Eyes

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 2:58 pm

Old Man wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
Ireland have scored more tries than NZ in the RWC so far last time I checked.

Great barometer Rolling Eyes

Ok, so you think Ireland are a boring side too? Lol, SA kick the ball more than any other side in the top 10 and you think Ireland are boring.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 3:01 pm

Yeah cause they frequently pummel Ireland picard

Looks like you deleted your post Ebop


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Post by ebop on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 3:01 pm

SA will out passion Ireland. I know that’s hard to comprehend, but SA have history.
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Post by ebop on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 3:03 pm

Guns, you’re Irish (and Australian) and ‘too’ slow


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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 3:05 pm

ebop wrote:SA will out passion Ireland. I know that’s hard to comprehend, but SA have history.

No they dont have history, they have never played Ireland at a RWC. The weight of history is for the media not this Ireland team, thats why they have defeated NZ twice.

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Post by ebop on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 3:08 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
ebop wrote:SA will out passion Ireland. I know that’s hard to comprehend, but SA have history.

No they dont have history, they have never played Ireland at a RWC. The weight of history is for the media not this Ireland team, thats why they have defeated NZ twice.
South Africa have won two RWCs and Ireland have never ever made it into a semifinal. Ireland are gagging to make it into a semifinal for the first time ever. South Africa are looking to bag a third RWC trophy. Ireland will choke, again.
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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 3:12 pm

SA have to get past Italy first. Didnt they lose to Italy fairly recently?

All good sides are looking to win the RWC because none of the teams at this RWC have one one yet, their predecessors may have.

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Post by ebop on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 3:21 pm

To be honest with you Guns, my money is on SA rolling Ireland in the quarterfinals. Did you see Kolbe? He’ll rip your team to bits.
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Post by SecretFly on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 3:22 pm

ebop wrote: Ireland are gagging to make it into a semifinal for the first time ever.

That's only the cover story for the media to laugh at us about. Always have a good duck decoy ready for the self-effacing gags. Sure we even pretended we suddenly couldn't play rugby for an entire year and everyone bought it Laugh
Behind the scenes though sure the streets of Dublin are already being closed to traffic in preparation for the bus and the cup procession. Tee shirts are already being printed in England as we speak, coz them lads are good at getting first edition tee shirts out.

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Post by maestegmafia on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 3:24 pm

ebop wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
ebop wrote:SA will out passion Ireland. I know that’s hard to comprehend, but SA have history.

No they dont have history, they have never played Ireland at a RWC. The weight of history is for the media not this Ireland team, thats why they have defeated NZ twice.
South Africa have won two RWCs and Ireland have never ever made it into a semifinal. Ireland are gagging to make it into a semifinal for the first time ever. South Africa are looking to bag a third RWC trophy. Ireland will choke, again.

This kind of historical precedent doesn’t make any sense. Teams don’t win things just because they have won them before.

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Post by ebop on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 3:25 pm

SecretFly, you are a freakin genius
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Post by ebop on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 3:34 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
ebop wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
ebop wrote:SA will out passion Ireland. I know that’s hard to comprehend, but SA have history.

No they dont have history, they have never played Ireland at a RWC. The weight of history is for the media not this Ireland team, thats why they have defeated NZ twice.
South Africa have won two RWCs and Ireland have never ever made it into a semifinal. Ireland are gagging to make it into a semifinal for the first time ever. South Africa are looking to bag a third RWC trophy. Ireland will choke, again.

This kind of historical precedent doesn’t make any sense. Teams don’t win things just because they have won them before.
Fair enough call maestegmafia, but the monkey is real. Only four nations have won. NZ, SA, AUS, ENG. Every other nation is pushing the envelope. Those 4 can draw on previous experience/history.
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Post by SecretFly on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 3:41 pm

What IS real is the shadow of teams waiting.  To stop the fun and games for a little moment, SA is a Real team - respect to them - and if there is a future past them, then that reality only gets larger still.

Hopefully, we've made a few of those prospective future sides a little more wary of the reality of our shadow looming too.

But first another real team in Japan.  We're not even certain we won't meet the ABs yet.  We have to keep proving this pool is ours by the honesty of our determination to go a way in this contest. No off days.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 3:52 pm

ebop wrote:To be honest with you Guns, my money is on SA rolling Ireland in the quarterfinals. Did you see Kolbe? He’ll rip your team to bits.

Maybe you didnt realise but Irelands defense is quite good, better than NZs and the Ireland players have played against Kolbe before.

Leinster played Toulouse 3 times this year and generally kept Kolbe under wraps. He got 1 consolation try in 3 games. He is still a threat though as is Pollard.


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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 3:54 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
ebop wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
ebop wrote:SA will out passion Ireland. I know that’s hard to comprehend, but SA have history.

No they dont have history, they have never played Ireland at a RWC. The weight of history is for the media not this Ireland team, thats why they have defeated NZ twice.
South Africa have won two RWCs and Ireland have never ever made it into a semifinal. Ireland are gagging to make it into a semifinal for the first time ever. South Africa are looking to bag a third RWC trophy. Ireland will choke, again.

This kind of historical precedent doesn’t make any sense. Teams don’t win things just because they have won them before.

Exactly, this SA side havent won anything yet and one thing is for sure Ireland wont fear them one bit as most of the Ireland side have experienced wins v most of the current SA squad.



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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 3:54 pm

Ireland played some fine rugby today, better than they did in the warm up game's against England, and Wales. the point is can they keep it up or improve on today's game for the rest of the RWC?

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Post by RDW on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 4:00 pm

Who got motm today? I would have given it to Best.

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Post by ebop on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 4:02 pm

Yeah Ireland did play their best game in 2019 against an underwhelming Scotland
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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 4:05 pm

RDW wrote:Who got motm today? I would have given it to Best.

Stander. Best deserves credit as the lineout was excellent.

Farrell was excellent. Not many teams have such a quality reserve centre.

VdF was my man of the match.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 4:21 pm

I hope Scotland rally and make it through the group and then give NZ a good rattle. Park it and move on, rugby can change very quickly.

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Post by bsando on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 4:29 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:I hope Scotland rally and make it through the group and then give NZ a good rattle. Park it and move on, rugby can change very quickly.

Well said. I had a wee rewatch of the first 30 mins and to be fair, although Scotland made mistakes in attack and defence, Ireland were just the better team and punished Scotland hard for those errors. The Irish rush defence was very good too and forced the Scottish backline to make quick decisions. That intensity won't come against Samoa, Russia and Japan I believe so I'm feeling positive going forwards in the pool.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 4:33 pm

People are too quick to throw players and coaches on the scrap heap after a bad outing. Scotland are still in this RWC and are definitely better than Japan, Russia and Samoa.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 4:45 pm

It's very easy to say we're throwing toonie onto the fire from a kneejerk reaction but having endured many many games with the same crap resurfacing for the last 18 months which we know the players are capable of correcting it's hard to look anywhere else but the coaches. Especially after BVC was making us look like a more cohesive unit.

Being a scotland fan isn't easy! 😂
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Post by miaow on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 4:53 pm

Ireland looking good. No team comes close to what they're good at. Saw hints of a more expansive game at times, but Scotland were barely competitive unfortunately. Townsend took the safe option but in the end they just died meekly.

I don't like McInally as your captain, either. I think the captain still really should be one of the leaders, not just a nice guy, which he seems to be. Seeing him miss an easy tackle early on against one of the Irish players is a huge boost, and was a sign of things to come. It's also a sign Scotland lack that ballsy forward pack with a bit of grit. What they'd do for a mobile Al Kellock these days, let alone Nathan Hines, Jason White etc.

What does Tadhg Beirne need to do to get a break at test level as well?

Ireland SA will be brutal. I honestly think it's 50:50, whatever a few partisan/bitter Kiwis on these boards want to think.

Scotland now have to play the rest of the tournament, avoiding banana skins, knowing they probably have a thumping coming their way in the QFs. Tough, tough task. I won't repeat my thoughts on Townsend, not the time, but it's a rather tame WC if today was what decided it for Scotland.

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Post by miaow on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 4:56 pm

ronian wrote:And ask Vern back with Toony as backs coach and Shaun Edwards as defence coach (our defence is awful)

That would be some coaching team. For all the SRU has done right since 2012/13ish, that basically jingoistic decision to get rid of Cotter is disgraceful. There's so much potential in Scotland to produce a national side that can properly compete with the other 3 Home Unions.

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Post by miaow on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 5:03 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Maybe you didnt realise but Irelands defense is quite good, better than NZs and the Ireland players have played against Kolbe before.

Despite the WUMming in this thread, which you're maybe biting at, I have to say that NZ's defence is excellent. Both yesterday and against England in 2018 they showed real grit and their defence is probably underrated. They spent most of the game in their own half, defending, and yet SA scored one try and only had half chances for the rest of the game. I wouldn't be confident saying Ireland's defence (or Wales') is better than NZ's.

Kolbe is SA's Shane Williams, no doubt. Wonderful player to watch.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 5:07 pm

Thought you had left Miaow.

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Post by Old Man on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 5:25 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
Old Man wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
Ireland have scored more tries than NZ in the RWC so far last time I checked.

Great barometer Rolling Eyes

Ok, so you think Ireland are a boring side too? Lol, SA kick the ball more than any other side in the top 10 and you think Ireland are boring.

I struggle to understand how you got “so you think Ireland is boring too” from my comment.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 5:30 pm

Old Man wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
Old Man wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
Ireland have scored more tries than NZ in the RWC so far last time I checked.

Great barometer Rolling Eyes

Ok, so you think Ireland are a boring side too? Lol, SA kick the ball more than any other side in the top 10 and you think Ireland are boring.

I struggle to understand how you got “so you think Ireland is boring too” from my comment.

Thats because you didnt bother to read the post I responded to in order to under the context of my response.

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Post by miaow on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 5:33 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Thought you had left Miaow.

I did send a message to RDW to delete my account, assumed it had been, but tried to log in a few days ago, it worked/hadn't been deleted, and thought f it, some people will be back for the RWC and the dross will be dilluted/they'll be actual things to discuss. I have no other means to bore people writing/talking about rugby in this way, so I'll make an exception during the RWC.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 5:36 pm

Some effort from 37 year old Best today. All lineouts won, scored a try and he played 80 minutes. Ireland legend, still got it.

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Post by Old Man on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 5:52 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
Old Man wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
Old Man wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
Ireland have scored more tries than NZ in the RWC so far last time I checked.

Great barometer Rolling Eyes

Ok, so you think Ireland are a boring side too? Lol, SA kick the ball more than any other side in the top 10 and you think Ireland are boring.

I struggle to understand how you got “so you think Ireland is boring too” from my comment.

Thats because you didnt bother to read the post I responded to in order to under the context of my response.

Yeah, nah, you are making assumptions.

But to clarify my comment is you compare Ireland the number 1 ranked team’s tries vs Scotland the number 8 ranked team to NZ ranked two vs SA ranked 4.


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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 5:55 pm

NZ are ranked 1 now not Ireland, SA fifth. Not sure how you can be a boring side and score 4 tries and win by 24 points. Maybe you can explain that one to me?

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Post by Old Man on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 6:12 pm

OK, let’s do this one step at a time.

Did I say Ireland were boring?

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 6:21 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:NZ are ranked 1 now not Ireland, SA fifth. Not sure how you can be a boring side and score 4 tries and win by 24 points. Maybe you can explain that one to me?

Well one way is to be able to see the tries actually scored. For all their running Ireland were always stopped short and needed to maul over the line every time. At least the ‘few’ AB tries were finished moves from a long way out. Stop Ireland getting points on the board early as NZ did SA despite being under heavy initial attack and you get a different Ireland, trying to score late, something they’re poor at.

In saying that it was a very well executed game plan, effective. But also a very predictable one. World cups are difficult to win off limited game plans, because they have to front three different sides, all with different ideas on how to play them, and the chances are one will probably work.

Tis a pity though that after day three we already know SA A and Ireland will play a quarter, and NZ will likely be in the semi after what’s happened so far. Scotland have never beaten NZ, and that result won’t give them confidence of changing that here. They were awful if we’re honest. Couldn’t see a single real positive across their performance. They’ll rally vs lesser sides, but they may only serve to give them a false confidence.

History doesn’t count? We’ll see.


Last edited by Taylorman on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 6:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

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