Wales RWC 2019 thread Number II

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Post by maestegmafia on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 12:46 pm

First topic message reminder :

WALES’ 2019 RWC SQUAD:

Forwards: Jake Ball, Adam Beard, Rhys Carre, James Davies, Elliot Dee, Ryan Elias, Tomas Francis, Cory Hill, Alun Wyn Jones, Wyn Jones, Dillon Lewis, Ross Moriarty, Josh Navidi, Ken Owens, Aaron Shingler, Nicky Smith, Justin Tipuric, Aaron Wainwright.

Backs: Josh Adams, Hallam Amos, Dan Biggar, Aled Davies, Gareth Davies, Jonathan Davies, Leigh Halfpenny, George North, Hadleigh Parkes, Rhys Patchell, Owen Watkin, Liam Williams, Tomos Williams.

Pool D

AUSTRALIA, WALES, GEORGIA, FIJI, URUGUAY

Match 1

Australia vs Fiji... Sapporo Dome... Saturday, September 21... 5.45am BST... (ITV)

Match 2

Wales vs Georgia... City of Toyota Stadium... Monday, September 23... 11.15am BST... (ITV)

Match 3

Fiji vs Uruguay... Kamaishi Recovery Memorial Stadium... Wednesday, September 25... 6.15am BST... (ITV 4)

Match 4

Georgia vs Uruguay... Kumagaya Rugby Stadium... Sunday, September 29... 6.15am BST... (ITV)

Match 5

Australia vs Wales... Tokyo Stadium... Sunday, September 29... 8.45am BST... (ITV)

Match 6

Georgia vs Fiji... Hanazono Rugby Stadium... Thursday, October 3... 6.15am BST... (ITV 4)

Match 7

Australia vs Uruguay... Oita Stadium... Saturday, October 5... 6.15am BST... (ITV)

Match 8

Wales vs Fiji... Oita Stadium... Wednesday, October 9... 10.45am BST... (ITV)

Match 9

Australia vs Georgia... Shizuoka Stadium Ecopa... Friday, October 11... 11.15am BST... (ITV 4)

Match 10

Wales vs Uruguay... Kumamoto Stadium... Sunday, October 13... 9.15am BST... (ITV)


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Post by miaow on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 4:01 pm

If JD2 is out, then Scott Williams gets called up. It would be a shame but, honestly, JD2 hasn't been playing fantastically. He's been pretty average defensively so far, although showed his quality for the Adams try. Just about the only time Wales beat a Fijian.

I've said what I think about Scott Williams and the latter end of the tournament, but I'd reiterate it again here - a fine player and I'd hope he gets given a chance, not just relegated to the reserves with Halfpenny taking the #23 shirt. Unfortunately, I don't see Gatland doing anything but that, but if we do lose JD2 - which I hope we don't - we have a top class test centre ready to call up, which is a bonus.

All eyes on whether Scott plays for the Ospreys this weekend I suppose.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 4:13 pm

So yours is a lighthearted comment when some people disagree with it, but mine was stone cold? How are you still crying over it?

miaow wrote:Mikey, just calm down. It's a rugby forum. You win nothing with your outrage. Nothing you could say could possibly hurt, offend, or impact my life in any way, but I feel you take this all a bit too seriously and invest too much emotional wellbeing in this forum. Just relax.

The irony.... it's dripping. If you're not offended I suggest you stop the outbursts when someone doesn't agree with you, it comes across as a little disturbing when someone is doing it over and over again.

Evans over Priestland for me, last season and this season.

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Post by Afro on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 4:20 pm

Please can we just accept what the other one is saying, and not assume the other is "outraged".

Otherwise this is just going around in circles.

Going forward, can we treat the post on its own face value rather than attach a preconceived emotion to it based on what you think has gone before
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Post by miaow on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 4:30 pm

Agreed. The 'crying' comment is very strange. Nothing wrong with a good cry once in a while - instead of bottling everything up and being constantly on edg, or worse - but not sure anything I've read on 606 has been capable of producing tears...of sadness that is. Tears of frustration perhaps. Very strange to use crying as an insult. Reminds me of 8 year olds. Nothing wrong with a good old cry.

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Post by Pie on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 5:23 pm

Is Scott fit? Jamie is in Japan call him up!!! And do we know or suspect JD2 is kaput

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Post by Pie on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 5:29 pm

miaow wrote:Personally thought JD2's injury didn't look great, hence wanting to know where the 'tournament's over' chat came from from Pie. And muscle injury to the knee now - rather than a knock - and it's game over and months of rehab.

He did it when offloading for Adams' 3rd. Hes basically running at pace, takes the tackle, and then twists his body to offload. Presumably his knee was stuck in the ground and it's minor moveent in the knee as he twists his upper body. That's basically a guaranteed tear as far as I can tell in terms of movement, which means tournament over unfortunately. Hope I'm wrong.

I was guessing but it appears I've fake newesd a story....I didnt like head in hands and watching the tape I thought it looks bad.....two players -including a Fijian tank - weight on his one knee at speed and twisting on what is apparently a very hard surface - see all that dust flying up all game.

He often has knee/groin issues and I just thought it looked bad immediately

His loss would be catastrophic for us in terms f playing a wide game and I'd bring Roberts straight in at 12 to go back to Warrenball but allow him to do a Mancs or commentary gig at half time lol (I say this because I just want to see the Doc back in the shirt)

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 5:50 pm

Guys like Scott Williams and Dan Lydiate haven't looked good at all, like the rest of their team. The more sensible option for me is to bring North infield and tell him to start getting involved. I thought JD2 might just have a muscle strain, hopefully not a pulled muscle as he could be out longer than a week. Otherwise I'm not sure who I'd call up in that case, maybe Jarrod and just have others cover some positions like what we're already doing.

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Post by Pie on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 5:55 pm

But north doesnt get involved...I watch him closely he stands off rucks and pushes. Hates getting his head in the mix. He's a big Cat with zero dog about him

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 5:58 pm

So the coaches need to offer him an ultimatum then, get involved or get out. I don't think he's been that bad btw, and it seems he just has some specific, limited task to do when playing for us. My idea was if Biggar is good and we have to call up an extra back, it'd be Jarrod covering 10 with Patchell at 12. Seems radical but I don't see what other options there are apart from Scott.

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Post by miaow on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 6:12 pm

Considering JD2 is one of the best defensive 13s in world rugby and he's having a tough time so far, no doubt due to the conditions and the less structured game plans, the last thing you'd want is to remove Wales' most potent carrying option from his best position and nullify the ability for him to get involved in strike moves and popping up in phase play, particularly when he's prone to tackling with T Rex arms and is one of the poorest defenders Wales have. Seems pretty obvious to me.

If JD2 is out it's clearly Owen Watkin to 13 and Scott Williams called up as cover. Gatland is likely to select Halfpenny at 23, and there's minimal disruption behind the scenes.

Anyone know how Owen Williams is getting on? He's probably the most experienced player Gatland could call on if needing a versatile 10-12? Would he even be eligible?

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Post by miaow on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 6:15 pm

Pie wrote:But north doesnt get involved...I watch him closely he stands off rucks and pushes. Hates getting his head in the mix. He's a big Cat with zero dog about him

Bit harsh. He's decent when there's a wide/isolated player who could be turned over, but literally no point him wasting his explosive energy counter rucking just to disrupt the scrum half for a second or two. That's what the plodders are for. North was disappointing v Fiji if onyl because he wasn't involved more often, but every time he touches the ball, for the last 18 months or so, he does something impressive. His game's come on a lot and he's a bit like Warburton - he's not making headlines anymore because other teams are taking 2-3 players to shut him down as quickly as possible. No surprise Adams has had such a good ride for his first 12 months in the game - it's not the only reason, but it's part of it. Teams try and prevent Wales from giving North the ball, and when he does get it, they leave gaps by stopping him. His job isn't to counter ruck.

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Post by RiscaGame on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 6:35 pm

Again, Jamie Roberts isn’t in Japan now. That’s why he was in the studio yesterday.


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Post by majesticimperialman on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 7:23 pm

RiscaGame wrote:Again, Jamie Roberts isn’t in Japan now. That’s why he wasn’t in the studio yesterday.

Even if he was still in Japan. The chances of Gatland giving him a call, very, very slim are they not. Shocked

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 7:29 pm

Pretty slim chance for Roberts, seeing as he hasn't been involved in the set-up for a while either.

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Post by Pie on Fri 11 Oct 2019, 2:47 am

What better player though to bench and do a job if required, Doc Manic Street Preacher Mr J Roberts

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Post by maestegmafia on Fri 11 Oct 2019, 9:35 am

miaow wrote:If JD2 is out, then Scott Williams gets called up. It would be a shame but, honestly, JD2 hasn't been playing fantastically. He's been pretty average defensively so far, although showed his quality for the Adams try. Just about the only time Wales beat a Fijian.

I've said what I think about Scott Williams and the latter end of the tournament, but I'd reiterate it again here - a fine player and I'd hope he gets given a chance, not just relegated to the reserves with Halfpenny taking the #23 shirt. Unfortunately, I don't see Gatland doing anything but that, but if we do lose JD2 - which I hope we don't - we have a top class test centre ready to call up, which is a bonus.

All eyes on whether Scott plays for the Ospreys this weekend I suppose.

It’s just a bruised knee, he now has ten days until we play France in the quarter finals. Though if they picked Owen Watkin I wouldn’t be upset. Keep JD2 fresh for the semis if we beat France.

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Post by miaow on Fri 11 Oct 2019, 2:25 pm

I heard it was swollen and he's icing it? Sounds to me like it's one of those where, once the swelling goes down, only then can you see the full extent of the damage. I'd be surprised if he plays again this tournament as he seems prone to muscle injuries in his legs, but let's hope for the best.

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Post by RiscaGame on Fri 11 Oct 2019, 4:05 pm

That’s still my fear, is they’re waiting for the swelling to subside. I still see it as positive that it’s not an obvious injury mind.

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Post by Pie on Fri 11 Oct 2019, 6:21 pm

They'd know if it was an articulation issue I suspect. I think he just took a mighty wallop of a concrete pitch while twisting under the weight of a charging bull at speed....should be fine then

I dont think Watkin Parkes is the end of the world, I just know that JD2 has been known to produce magical moments as he just did to get crocked

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Post by miaow on Fri 11 Oct 2019, 6:48 pm

You're forgetting that Gatland et al. aren't about to tell the media until absolutely necessary. I'd imagine they do know what's wrong with it, and it's possible they're keeping quiet. If there's any hope of strapping him up and getting him on the park in 2 weeks time for a SF, it's going to be 'a bruised knee' until the moment he's ruled out of the tournament. Keep the opposition guessing.

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Post by Pie on Fri 11 Oct 2019, 7:01 pm

How am I forgetting that?? I said that I think they know already how the knee looks, thats all.

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Post by miaow on Fri 11 Oct 2019, 7:09 pm

How? Because it's almost certainly a twist rather than a bump based on the action as he did it. Hope I'm wrong

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Post by Pie on Fri 11 Oct 2019, 7:22 pm

miaow wrote:How? Because it's almost certainly a twist rather than a bump based on the action as he did it. Hope I'm wrong

I said he was twisting.

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Post by miaow on Fri 11 Oct 2019, 7:30 pm

Alright. Well, let's just hope for the best either way.

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Post by maestegmafia on Fri 11 Oct 2019, 9:37 pm

You know if you have damage as soon as you do an mri the swelling doesn’t matter.

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Post by miaow on Fri 11 Oct 2019, 9:50 pm

I think that's the worry. He went from sprinting away and delivering an offload to barely hobbling and reports are he 'had his head in his hands' on the sidelines. Even if he couldn't 'hear' the damage, you can feel it, and as a pro athlete, you imagine he knows the difference between injuries.

Have to hope if it is a tear it's somehow minor. In terms of the team, Halfpenny comes on to the bench at 23, Watkin starts, and we could shift North to 13, Patchell to 12, or Tipuric at a push to either centre position. But it's not ideal, as JD2 is still one of our best players, and definitely second in the 'irreplacable' stakes behind AWJ.

Let's hope for the best.

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Post by maestegmafia on Fri 11 Oct 2019, 10:00 pm

miaow wrote:I think that's the worry. He went from sprinting away and delivering an offload to barely hobbling  and reports are he 'had his head in his hands' on the sidelines. Even if he couldn't 'hear' the damage, you can feel it, and as a pro athlete, you imagine he knows the difference between injuries.

Have to hope if it is a tear it's somehow minor. In terms of the team, Halfpenny comes on to the bench at 23, Watkin starts, and we could shift North to 13, Patchell to 12, or Tipuric at a push to either centre position. But it's not ideal, as JD2 is still one of our best players, and definitely second in the 'irreplacable' stakes behind AWJ.

Let's hope for the best.

It was two days ago, he will have had an mri on it they will know if there is any damage and if there is he would have been sent home for treatment

There is no reason to suspect different.

Bang on the knee but of swelling, I’ve treatment. He will be fit to play France.

Where are you cooking all this “he’s out of the RWC” stuff from???

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Post by miaow on Fri 11 Oct 2019, 10:25 pm

I always assumed scans are limited or even difficult to do if there's severe swelling around an injury. Perhaps it's different for pro sport, and perhaps it's changing/getting better year on year. But I doubt he'd have had a definitive scan just yet.

As to why - call it Welsh pessimism, I don't know. But his injury record isn't great, particularly muscular, particularly lower half.

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Post by The Oracle on Fri 11 Oct 2019, 10:51 pm

Lucky it’s his knee then and not one of his muscles! Wink
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Post by miaow on Fri 11 Oct 2019, 11:11 pm

Dread to think what your knees look like if they don't have any muscles in them! Absolute spaghetti legs!

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Post by The Oracle on Fri 11 Oct 2019, 11:12 pm

Are you serious?! Muscles in your knee??? Jesus wept picard
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Post by miaow on Fri 11 Oct 2019, 11:21 pm

Tbf it's late. What's a ligament to a muscle at this time of night.

Wales RWC 2019 thread Number II - Page 5 Giphy

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 12 Oct 2019, 9:21 am

Spark sports backline so far...

G Davies
Mo’unga
Kerevi
AL Brown
Radradra
Kolbe
Barrett

With honourable mentions tjp, sexton, Liam Williams

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Post by miaow on Sat 12 Oct 2019, 3:52 pm

Very NZ-centric as expected. Would disagree with nearly all of those, including Gareth Davies. He's been good but it feels very much like 'pick the headline players' because he scored a try against Australia.

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Post by Pie on Sat 12 Oct 2019, 10:29 pm

If marginally fit I'd rest JD2 v France and bring him in v Saffa/Japan. I think Watkin can do the job adequately. Its set piece and kicking will beat that lot anyway.

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Post by miaow on Sat 12 Oct 2019, 10:32 pm

Yeah, I'd be tempted to agree. Also would like to see Watkin actually play. Scott Williams an Tipuric sat on the bench for a while but we know they could step up - not quite sure with Watkin.

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Post by miaow on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 1:17 am

Think it's worth saying - Wales haven't lose a top class test match in 18 months.

If/when we beat Uruguay, it'll be 18 wins on the bounce.

I know, warm up games etc., but really, as mentioned - and you can guarantee they're talking about this in house - they have none of the pressure of a winning streak, with all the benefts of it, knowing that, yes, they have won 18 games that actually matter, and they won the only warm up they really needed to win - albeit the return fixture against Ireland would have been a good win, too.

18 wins. No loss in a 'proper' test match since Feb 2018.

Things are looking decent.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 1:39 am

miaow wrote:Think it's worth saying - Wales haven't lose a top class test match in 18 months.

If/when we beat Uruguay, it'll be 18 wins on the bounce.

I know, warm up games etc., but really, as mentioned - and you can guarantee they're talking about this in house - they have none of the pressure of a winning streak, with all the benefts of it, knowing that, yes, they have won 18 games that actually matter, and they won the only warm up they really needed to win - albeit the return fixture against Ireland would have been a good win, too.

18 wins. No loss in a 'proper' test match since Feb 2018.

Things are looking decent.

They are, and they’re still showing it, and that’s a better record than anyone going into the quarters.

Only thing about that many matches is peak may be in the past but that’s a minor. I didn’t rate the Ireland Wales matches after the England won. Both looked like they were waiting for the real thing. Wales injuries to Faletau, Anscombe and Biggar? Is he out? Won’t help but they seem to be coping. Plus Gats is the northern campaign king.

England and Wales are definite winner chances, I don’t think Ireland can do three from here simply due to reliance on both Sexton and a certain way the game needs to play out. Work that out and Ireland look beatable.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 3:48 am

Taylorman wrote:Spark sports backline so far...

G Davies
Mo’unga
Kerevi
AL Brown
Radradra
Kolbe
Barrett

With honourable mentions tjp, sexton, Liam Williams

Forwards

Marler
Horie
Laulala
Barrett
Itoje
Du Toit
Savea
Himeno

Nacewa is one of the panel.
Not saying I agree with it and discussion could have had a number of players in there. I do think though that for us Mo’unga and AL Brown have been clearly the best in their positions.

B Barrett and Savea wouldn’t be far off.

Who have the best kicking %s I wonder.

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Post by maestegmafia on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 7:52 am

I have never been so excited to watch a welsh team play an international against a team like Uruguay. Can’t wait.

So happy the Scotland vs Japan game is going ahead... great news.


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Post by miaow on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 8:03 am

Yeah, that's a rubbish list. Just picking headline players and the ones they already know.

In terms of players who have stood out, there aren't too many - not helped by cancelled games.

Best half backs so far, for me, would be the Tongan 9 and the Japanese 10. Noticeably better than anyone else based on what I've seen. Not comfortable enough judging other positions as there's just been too much varied rugby to make that call. Russian 15 probably deserves a mention though.

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Post by miaow on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 8:56 am

Anyway, back to Wales.

Bit of a side point - well, a lot of a side point - but considering there's a lot of commercial focus in the modern game, it's a bit strange but Wales look unlikely to play in their green away kit - which I can't say I'm upset about as I'm not really sure about Wales looking like Ireland.

Didn't wear it in the 4 warm up games where it usually gets a run out - England have worn theirs twice already. With Under Armour's contract up, and Welsh players presumably not fancying looking like the Irish, it looks like a rare instane of common sense taking precedence over commercial interests.

Wales will presumably wear their own red strip against Uruguay, who play in light blue, meaning this kit is likely to never be played in. There's a tour to NZ next summer, so maybe it gets a wear next autumn, but by the looks of things it's not getting worn.

Now wait to see Wales run out in green and make me look stupid...

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Post by Pal Joey on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 9:02 am

Would have been nice to see that, miaow.

I actually prefer Australia's away kit although it does resemble the Springboks and the Kangaroo RL kit.

Few people realise our original colours (or from 1905-07) were cerise and sky blue (Qld+NSW) colours... which would be good to see again one day.
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Post by miaow on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 11:42 am

Think we saw today the difference in depth between Wales and Ireland and especially England - but also our potential rivals, including France, Australia, NZ, and SA.

We have a number of tidy, decent players but it's dubious whether some of those - Amos, Watkin in particularly today - have really made the step up at test level other than anything but stop gaps and a reserve for the 'midweek' games.

Ireland are a poor comparison so far, but their reserves dealt with ours well enough, and even more worrying is the depth England and France have, with only minimal ability lost from first team to second and even third choice.

Still feels very much like a moneyball team - more than the some of our parts. Or the sum of our Parkes? Even Hadleigh looked out of his depth today, which is worrying given the performances at club level that got him a call up to start with.

I honestly don't think we can beat NZ, but I think this team can still win a RWC. It's just very clear we need to lose as few players to injury as possible. We've dne ok so far in the tournament, but were hit terribly beforehand. It's evident what players like Anscombe, Faletau, and even Cory Hill would bring in terms of game understanding and coolness under pressure.

Anyway, onwrds and upwards. We won the group with the only 'blip' coming at the end, really. It's the hope that kills you...

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 11:52 am

Does Parks have a shoulder injury.

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Post by chris_501 on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 10:47 am

My view off the back of the Uruguay game was that we won with a bonus point, but more importantly there were no injuries.

I also thought that those players that are likely to feature in the knockout matches performed well.

Tipuric, Wainwright and Moriarty looked good, as well as Tomos and Gareth Davies. I thought Halfpenny looked rock solid, and was looking to run the ball back, showing a fair bit of confidence and I wouldn't be surprised to see him back on the bench for France, with Adams on a hot streak with his try scoring.

Off the bench, I would be happy to see Carre, either reserve hooker and both second rows with Shingler got a good run out, ready to bench v France.

The biggest worry is Parkes, I thought he wasn't at his best, as he hasn't been for a while, but I hope he brings out his best performances for the QFs and beyond. Aled Davies, Watkin and Amos looked like they hadn't had much game time, with the scrum half and winger clearly below the other options we have in those positions.

Overall, with a full squad to pick from for Sunday, things are definitely looking positive!

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Post by miaow on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 1:29 pm

Parkes is there to effectively be a slightly better but slightly smaller Jamie Roberts who can also play a bit if/when the game breaks up. More natural footballing ability than Roberts, and (usually) can pick a pass that puts someone away for a try, can hold and give at the right moment, decent but not great reading of the game and takes the right option.

I'd have Scott Williams over him but as a hard running 12 is integral to the way Gatland plays, it's hard to argue he's not useful.

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Post by miaow on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 1:30 pm

Also, what odds on an England v Wales final? I've got a sneaking feeling it could happen.

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Post by Afro on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 1:53 pm

miaow wrote:Also, what odds on an England v Wales final? I've got a sneaking feeling it could happen.

Got 3 world cup bets left, all relying on Wales to an extent

England, Wales or Ireland to win the WC
New Zealand to beat Wales in the final
England and Wales to meet in the final.

The last one is currently 10/1,
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Post by Afro on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 1:59 pm

I genuinely think Halfpenny should be coming in on the wing for the next game.

Whilst Josh Adam's is decent enough, I'm not buying into the hype from the last 3 games just yet. 4 tries yes, but only one of them was class finishing. The other three were simple run ins as a result of other player's play.

He isn't doing enough to keep Halfpenny out the side IMO

Amos had a chance to stake a claim, but blew it yesterday
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