Wales RWC 2019 thread Number II

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Post by maestegmafia on Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:46 pm

First topic message reminder :

WALES’ 2019 RWC SQUAD:

Forwards: Jake Ball, Adam Beard, Rhys Carre, James Davies, Elliot Dee, Ryan Elias, Tomas Francis, Cory Hill, Alun Wyn Jones, Wyn Jones, Dillon Lewis, Ross Moriarty, Josh Navidi, Ken Owens, Aaron Shingler, Nicky Smith, Justin Tipuric, Aaron Wainwright.

Backs: Josh Adams, Hallam Amos, Dan Biggar, Aled Davies, Gareth Davies, Jonathan Davies, Leigh Halfpenny, George North, Hadleigh Parkes, Rhys Patchell, Owen Watkin, Liam Williams, Tomos Williams.

Pool D

AUSTRALIA, WALES, GEORGIA, FIJI, URUGUAY

Match 1

Australia vs Fiji... Sapporo Dome... Saturday, September 21... 5.45am BST... (ITV)

Match 2

Wales vs Georgia... City of Toyota Stadium... Monday, September 23... 11.15am BST... (ITV)

Match 3

Fiji vs Uruguay... Kamaishi Recovery Memorial Stadium... Wednesday, September 25... 6.15am BST... (ITV 4)

Match 4

Georgia vs Uruguay... Kumagaya Rugby Stadium... Sunday, September 29... 6.15am BST... (ITV)

Match 5

Australia vs Wales... Tokyo Stadium... Sunday, September 29... 8.45am BST... (ITV)

Match 6

Georgia vs Fiji... Hanazono Rugby Stadium... Thursday, October 3... 6.15am BST... (ITV 4)

Match 7

Australia vs Uruguay... Oita Stadium... Saturday, October 5... 6.15am BST... (ITV)

Match 8

Wales vs Fiji... Oita Stadium... Wednesday, October 9... 10.45am BST... (ITV)

Match 9

Australia vs Georgia... Shizuoka Stadium Ecopa... Friday, October 11... 11.15am BST... (ITV 4)

Match 10

Wales vs Uruguay... Kumamoto Stadium... Sunday, October 13... 9.15am BST... (ITV)


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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:51 pm

Dave if you’re asking me I think I’ve already answered that? Your views are coming across as a tad ignorant tbh. I wrote him off a few years ago only for him to come back and prove me wrong, he still has in important role to play going forward.

A little word on scott williams... he’s playing terribly right now, he has done all season. He’s also looked poor for more than a season now.

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Post by miaow on Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:47 am

Dirtydave wrote:Did either of you guys watch the English and Irish warm up games? He was massively under cooked, and it was almost an embarrassment watching a guy that size so physically outmatched. I, like you, believed it was the injury return, and considering our lock crisis taking him to the world cup was a must.

He's not a starting 6 option in reality, it would prove costly against the likes of England and France. Wainright has proven quality, dynamism and athleticism. Navidi is also a better 6 option. Fingers crosse Falatau is on the mend, Tipuric is standout. That's 4 better options right there, Moriarty I agree is struggling, but with a number of talented back rowers behind this group, Davies, Young, Griffiths, Robinson, jenkins etc...

It's non sensical, without another lock crisis to persist.

I'm honestly not sure what point you're trying to make here. You seem to contradict yourself.

Think nearly everyone else in Wales realises how good Shingler was from 2016/17 until his injury. Have to wait and see what level he gets back to now but he didn't exactly let Wales down in the world cup games that mattered.

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Post by miaow on Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:59 am

Anyway, as for Wales in general, one thing that seems patently clear to me is the drop off from test rugby to the regions. The Ospreys have just lost to the Kings, the whipping boys of the league. Scott Williams must regret going there, North and Anscombe must be having serious doubts as well. But it's not like it's just the Ospreys.

The lack of crowds, the lack of reasonable hope of winning anything, the poor standard of rugby...there's a big, big issue, structurally speaking, that losing Gatland might now start to bleed through in to the national team.

Just about any other top class country can throw their dropped players backto the club game and let them play their way back to form and competitiveness. For the last 5 years or so Wales haven't really been able to do that, but for 18 months where the Scarlets shone. There's no sense of bringing your club form in to the test arena, there's no sense of using what you learn at the regions and hoping it works against tier 1 teams. How can Dragons and Ospreys players hope to compete with the form of Saracens, Leinster, Exeter, and Munster players? Let alone Crusaders etc.

I think that was mostly apparent in the way Wales played in the RWC. It was probably the most negative rugby under Gatland, ever, yet it was some of the most effective. That's why I genuinely think there was a case to be made for Jamie Roberts, in hindsight. Either way, the sheer inability to run the ball and utilise basic skills with basic modern attacking tactics shows the gulf between the rugby played by the regions, and what's being played particularly in the SH, but also over in England, sort of France (at least it's brutal), and the best Irish and Scottish clubs. It's not like they're perfect, but it feels Wales are in danger of being left behind. We saw the lack of basic skills against Uruguay. Saw it against South Africa. France played 30 minutes of decent attacking rugby and nearly beat Wales.

It seems so obvious that you're fighting a losing battle if the regions aren't playing some of the best rugby in Europe. Small player pool, physically a small nation...that has to be mitigated by intelligence and style of play, sort of like the Scots have started to do, but more effectively.

Anyway, big test for Pivac. I cannot see a huge stylistic departure from Gatlandball but there's clear need to do his own thing as well. That's not helped by the fact the regions - all bar the Scarlets this year, as the Blues have suddenly dropped off the face of the earth - are basically useless.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:46 am

Would Wales have had a better chance in the RWC if this Gatland's law was not in force. If you want to play for Wales, you must play in Wales.....unless you have x a mount of caps.

Would Wales have had a better chance with Webb at 9 rather Davies?

I still think it is a mater of ifs,buts, coulda, shouda. No offence but Wales was just like England in the RWC, just not good enough to win the RWC. How much better will Wales be with Pivac in charge make? That remain's to be seen.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:55 am

26 applicants have been invited to apply for the ABs job, all kiwis, so if they’re all currently head coaches I’d be surprised if we’ll over half of them arent currently in NH club rugby, unless they’ve asked co coaches like Tony Brown. If there’s that many be surprised if Pivac isn’t on the list. If it precludes those with contracts don’t think I could even name that many. Unless they’re scraping the barrel on names like Pat Lam.

Think Rueben Thorn is right though, they should now be including players opinions on what the new coaches qualities should be, rather than the old ways of you get so you get. Players that have served under various Super rugby coaches, and both overseas and AB coaches have a combined amount of knowledge on what works in a way that those selecting the new coach will have. An obvious bias to favouring one that is more likely to select you might be an issue but it would be interesting what a player vote would throw up. I’m thinking that would clearly favour Razor, even amongst non Crusaders players.

He’s the new generation, like Rassie, under 50 and pro players themselves.

For Wales, Be interesting whether Pivac now selects players Gatland seldomly or never did.


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Post by The Oracle on Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:58 am

I think it only really affected one player, Maj, in terms of who would actually be good enough to be called up. I.e. Rhys Webb. And I don’t think that on his own he’d be the difference between wales doing better (I.e. making the final) or doing the same as we did. I don’t think the difference between him and Davies or Tomos Williams is so big that he’d impact our World Cup showing alone. Had we a number of players caught out by Gatland’s law then maybe....... but it was only Webb realistically.
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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:20 am

Taylorman.

I have all ways had the thought that when a coach, like Hanson is set to leave the Abs, there is some one all ready line up for the job...Like when Graham Henry was in charge it was obvious the Steve Hanson would be taking over.

It their no obvious choice this time?

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:28 am

The Oracle wrote:I think it only really affected one player, Maj, in terms of who would actually be good enough to be called up. I.e. Rhys Webb. And I don’t think that on his own he’d be the difference between wales doing better (I.e. making the final) or doing the same as we did. I don’t think the difference between him and Davies or Tomos Williams is so big that he’d impact our World Cup showing alone. Had we a number of players caught out by Gatland’s law then maybe....... but it was only Webb realistically.
I only new of Rhys Webb, that was over seas( like in France) but i did think there could be more to be honest....personally i am not so sure what a difference he would of made....just believe he(webb) was a better 9 than Gareth Davies.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:33 am

majesticimperialman wrote:Taylorman.

I have all ways had the thought that when a coach, like Hanson is set to leave the Abs, there is some one all ready line up for the job...Like when Graham Henry was in charge it was obvious the Steve Hanson would be taking over.

It their no obvious choice this time?

That’s because they won. Previously coach selections were tumultuous affairs with Hart vs Wyllie versus Mains in the 80s and 90s, then the awful divisive Mitchell era, each coach was replaced every losing World Cup coach except for Henry who just about divided the country to stay on. Hansen got in mainly due to the win in 2011, and Henry retiring, and was retained in 2015. Now they’ve lost the title, the obvious that was Foster, is now not so obvious. He didn’t win, he hasn’t coached overseas and his own record as head coach is poorer than others.tThere might be thinking that the further away from the Henry, Wayne Smith...Hansen and now Foster...the power thinking is now lost. Time for a new direction.

Henry is on the panel for selecting the new coach, as is an ex netball captain/ coach so they are going for not only knowledge in rugby but also in leadership and coaching in sport general. I just think they should include players opinions, even if only recently retired ones. Carter, McCaw, Conrad, Nonu, SBW, Brad Thorne, Cruden etc.

I’m thinking fave is now either Razor or Jamie Joseph. They may retain Foster or Grant Fox.

Tony Brown was approached by Razor who declined (the candidates need to put their case, including co coaches, forward at application so one wonders whether he wants OGara, knowing the risk that the panel may have already ruled out outsiders. Without Brown or OGara, Razors back coach options are looking slim.

Be interested to know who the 26 are. It’d be like the ABs to leave no stone unturned meaning anyone could have been invited...Pivac, Schmidt, Gats, Joseph, even Wayne Smith, regardless of contracts or what they’re stated intentions were.

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Post by Pie on Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:48 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:Nice story here about Wales and Kitakyushu trading thank you messages.

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20191108/p2a/00m/0na/003000c


Meanwhile the NZ Herald has taken out an ad and asked the Japanese to share their bills for the ABs coming to Japan

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Post by Taylorman on Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:54 pm

Pie wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:Nice story here about Wales and Kitakyushu trading thank you messages.

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20191108/p2a/00m/0na/003000c


Meanwhile the NZ Herald has taken out an ad and asked the Japanese to share their bills for the ABs coming to Japan

Good to see you read our herald. I don’t. Not since they started asking for money like all the northern rags.

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Post by Pie on Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:15 pm

Taylorman wrote:
Pie wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:Nice story here about Wales and Kitakyushu trading thank you messages.

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20191108/p2a/00m/0na/003000c


Meanwhile the NZ Herald has taken out an ad and asked the Japanese to share their bills for the ABs coming to Japan

Good to see you read our herald. I don’t. Not since they started asking for money like all the northern rags.

I dont have to read it to know if its dire rep.

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Post by miaow on Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:36 pm

Taylorman wrote:26 applicants have been invited to apply for the ABs job, all kiwis, so if they’re all currently head coaches I’d be surprised if we’ll over half of them arent currently in NH club rugby, unless they’ve asked co coaches like Tony Brown. If there’s that many be surprised if Pivac isn’t on the list. If it precludes those with contracts don’t think I could even name that many. Unless they’re scraping the barrel on names like Pat Lam.

Think Rueben Thorn is right though, they should now be including players opinions on what the new coaches qualities should be, rather than the old ways of you get so you get. Players that have served under various Super rugby coaches, and both overseas and AB coaches have a combined amount of knowledge on what works in a way that those selecting the new coach will have. An obvious bias to favouring one that is more likely to select you might be an issue but it would be interesting what a player vote would throw up. I’m thinking that would clearly favour Razor, even amongst non Crusaders players.

He’s the new generation, like Rassie, under 50 and pro players themselves.

For Wales, Be interesting whether Pivac now selects players Gatland seldomly or never did.

Really struggling to understand what relevance 95% of this comment has to Wales tbh. Seems like it would be more appropriate for your diary (again) or, failing that, a NZ thread. Or, as there's so little interest in NZ and so few Kiwi posters, maybe create a SANZAR thread.

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Post by miaow on Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:45 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:Would Wales have had a better chance in the RWC if this Gatland's law was not in force. If you want to play for Wales, you must play in Wales.....unless you have x a mount of caps.

Would Wales have had a better chance with Webb at 9 rather Davies?

I still think it is a mater of ifs,buts, coulda, shouda. No offence but Wales was just like England in the RWC, just not good enough to win the RWC. How much better will Wales be with Pivac in charge make? That remain's to be seen.

Probably not. You'd have players playing all over England and France and they'd just get churned up in the meat factories that are those two leagues.

Webb would have helped, undoubtedly. He's a quality 9. The issue is that ship has now sailed. This was when he should have been peaking. You can't blame him leaving the mess that was and still is the Ospreys, but where Biggar joined a club that will clearly value and look after him, it seems Webb got swayed by the money and lifestyle and didn't really consider what happened to Charteris, Hook etc. and how gentlemens' agreements get flushed down the toilet in France. Had he joined Bath, we'll never know if there might have been a loan to the Dragons or even a Welsh Prem club over the summer so he could play. But yeah, clearly he would have been a plus for Wales. In the end, though, it was the 10 position that was a bigger/Biggar issue as having Anscombe starting games and Biggar finishing them was perfect. Without Anscombe, the attacking plan went to pieces, really, and Parkes isn't a playmaker. The 9 shirt now has a great fight between Kieran Hardy and Tomos Williams for years to come. Both look like the have the complete game, moreso than Gareth Davies, who will still do a job for a few years. Also a number of decent players in the wings at 9 as well but I think a few might see it as a chance to move away to England for a paycheck perhaps with the talent coming through.

Wales weren't good enough to win, no, but had they kept even half their injured players fit (particularly Anscombe) then it might have been a different story.

How much better under Pivac. Ultimately we have no idea. My guess will be we'll play better rugby, get more wins v SH, but no 6Ns titles in the next 4 years. If I were to put a bet on, iti would be that Wales will beat the All Blacks under Pivac but won't win a 6 Nations before the next RWC. Not sure what odds you'd get on that, possibly not great, but that's where I think Pivac will get Wales. His tactics seem to be streaky but that also includes extended periods of underachieving. Hope I'm wrong but I'm a bit worried it could go horribly wrong and he's gone in 2 years (there's a mid cycle review in 2021 I believe).

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Post by miaow on Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:49 pm

Taylorman wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Taylorman.

I have all ways had the thought that when a coach, like Hanson is set to leave the Abs, there is some one all ready line up for the job...Like when Graham Henry was in charge it was obvious the Steve Hanson would be taking over.

It their no obvious choice this time?

That’s because they won. Previously coach selections were tumultuous affairs with Hart vs Wyllie versus Mains in the 80s and 90s, then the awful divisive Mitchell era, each coach was replaced every losing World Cup coach except for Henry who just about divided the country to stay on. Hansen got in mainly due to the win in 2011, and Henry retiring, and was retained in 2015. Now they’ve lost the title, the obvious that was Foster, is now not so obvious. He didn’t win, he hasn’t coached overseas and his own record as head coach is poorer than others.tThere might be thinking that the further away from the Henry, Wayne Smith...Hansen and now Foster...the power thinking is now lost. Time for a new direction.

Henry is on the panel for selecting the new coach, as is an ex netball captain/ coach so they are going for not only knowledge in rugby but also in leadership and coaching in sport general. I just think they should include players opinions, even if only recently retired ones. Carter, McCaw, Conrad, Nonu, SBW, Brad Thorne, Cruden etc.

I’m thinking fave is now either Razor or Jamie Joseph. They may retain Foster or Grant Fox.

Tony Brown was approached by Razor who declined (the candidates need to put their case, including co coaches, forward at application so one wonders whether he wants OGara, knowing the risk that the panel may have already ruled out outsiders. Without Brown or OGara, Razors back coach options are looking slim.

Be interested to know who the 26 are. It’d be like the ABs to leave no stone unturned meaning anyone could have been invited...Pivac, Schmidt, Gats, Joseph, even Wayne Smith, regardless of contracts or what they’re stated intentions were.

You can find it easily enough. Genuinely. However, if you create another thread instead of having a lengthy, one way (i.e. to yourself) conversation about NZ on what is quite clearly and unambiguously the Wales thread, I'll even tell you myself. Just please stop writing journal entries on threads where the topic is literally irrelevant. Pivac isn't on the list.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:30 pm

miaow wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Taylorman.

I have all ways had the thought that when a coach, like Hanson is set to leave the Abs, there is some one all ready line up for the job...Like when Graham Henry was in charge it was obvious the Steve Hanson would be taking over.

It their no obvious choice this time?

That’s because they won. Previously coach selections were tumultuous affairs with Hart vs Wyllie versus Mains in the 80s and 90s, then the awful divisive Mitchell era, each coach was replaced every losing World Cup coach except for Henry who just about divided the country to stay on. Hansen got in mainly due to the win in 2011, and Henry retiring, and was retained in 2015. Now they’ve lost the title, the obvious that was Foster, is now not so obvious. He didn’t win, he hasn’t coached overseas and his own record as head coach is poorer than others.tThere might be thinking that the further away from the Henry, Wayne Smith...Hansen and now Foster...the power thinking is now lost. Time for a new direction.

Henry is on the panel for selecting the new coach, as is an ex netball captain/ coach so they are going for not only knowledge in rugby but also in leadership and coaching in sport general. I just think they should include players opinions, even if only recently retired ones. Carter, McCaw, Conrad, Nonu, SBW, Brad Thorne, Cruden etc.

I’m thinking fave is now either Razor or Jamie Joseph. They may retain Foster or Grant Fox.

Tony Brown was approached by Razor who declined (the candidates need to put their case, including co coaches, forward at application so one wonders whether he wants OGara, knowing the risk that the panel may have already ruled out outsiders. Without Brown or OGara, Razors back coach options are looking slim.

Be interested to know who the 26 are. It’d be like the ABs to leave no stone unturned meaning anyone could have been invited...Pivac, Schmidt, Gats, Joseph, even Wayne Smith, regardless of contracts or what they’re stated intentions were.

You can find it easily enough. Genuinely. However, if you create another thread instead of having a lengthy, one way (i.e. to yourself) conversation about NZ on what is quite clearly and unambiguously the Wales thread, I'll even tell you myself. Just please stop writing journal entries on threads where the topic is literally irrelevant. Pivac isn't on the list.

You’ve just made the article that much longer by complaining yourself. How many times do you have to be told not to tell others what they can write, and part of the post I was answering a question, part of it was about the new Welsh coach. Say it 100 times... ‘I must not tell others what they can write...’ Hug

And if you know the list who are they then kiddo? All I’ve seen is guesses at it.

And I wouldn’t recommend making things up...makes you look stoopid. ‘You can find it easy enough...Laugh

’As it is an official employment process, the identities of those 26 individuals will remain confidential, but that doesn’t stop the questioned being asked: who could be on that extended shortlist?’

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Post by miaow on Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:08 am

Please stop. As I said, I'll tell you the 26 names, just get off this thread. You're clearly using it because you know it's one that will get the most traffic, yet NZ are literally not relevant. Start a SANZAR thread please. It's pretty simple.

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Post by Taylorman on Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:14 am

miaow wrote:Please stop. As I said, I'll tell you the 26 names, just get off this thread. You're clearly using it because you know it's one that will get the most traffic, yet NZ are literally not relevant. Start a SANZAR thread please. It's pretty simple.

No. The comment was relevant and about rugby. I have broken no rules, I was engaging in a rugby conversation, and no, you won’t give me the list because of the reasons I said. The list will never be published. So stop making things up. Stop ruining things by telling others what to think, a do. You are the most annoying thing around here, denoted by having confrontations on a regular basis with multiple posters.. Only difference is I don’t tolerate it on my own posts, and don’t suffer fools like you. Next thing Cyril will be around slamming us both, when I started talking rugby, and you decided, incorrectly yet again,to play the mod.

You spend your time hijacking every thread going and now you want to be the rules guy?
Report it, or p off my posts.

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Post by miaow on Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:55 am

No, you haven't broken any 'rules' of the forum, although a more robust would clearly confirm this is off topic and now deraling, which was surely your sole purpose. But you have broken social rules. You just come across like a bit of a spoilt brat tbh, like a kid who thinks everything they do is amazing. "Mummy, mummy, look at me" etc. Except no-one wants this in the Wales thread. No-one thinks it's special or impressive. They would give you more respect if you weren't such a persistent de-railer of threads, however, and that's what I'm asking you to consider.

You know exactly what you're doing.

Start a blog. Buy a diary.

None of this is relevant to Wales.

The World Cup's over. If you want to discuss Wales, great, do for it in this thread.

If you literally just want an audience for your ramblings about NZ - guess what?! Start a thread about NZ!? How is that hard?

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Post by Taylorman on Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:33 am

Miaow. get off my posts. Ive told you again and again. Simple.



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Post by miaow on Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:43 am

It's very simple T. Talk about Wales in the Wales thread. Not this psuedo-therapy you're hoping to get from 606. Very simple. Will you create a NZ thread to talk about NZ?

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Post by Taylorman on Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:52 am

You know what happened last time you got all worked up Gwlad. Looks like its coming back huh?

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Post by miaow on Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:54 am

Look, I've helped you out. I can't do anymore.

Please keep monologues about NZ to the relevant thread: http://www.606v2.com/t69218-the-new-zealand-all-blacks-thread-post-rwc-2020-season#3866138

Thanks.

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Post by Taylorman on Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:56 am

kiss

I maintain my post was relevant. For you to continually harrass me over it, to even set up another thread on my behalf is absurd. You clearly have problems others write on this site and when you cant offer commentary you start throwing toys.

Others might let it go but I won't, at the risk of being banned.

You're a joke Miaow. All you needed to do was ignore my post which was not in any way targeted at you.


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Post by miaow on Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:04 am

Thanks for your co-operation. I'm sure literally everyone on 606 - from mods, lurkers, regular posters, and myself - is grateful.

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Post by Taylorman on Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:10 am

Somehow i doubt that.

Give you 24 hours before youre in some toy throwing with someone else.


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Post by Dirtydave on Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:44 am

So, to return this to a Welsh discussion...

I'm a season ticket holder for blues and dragons, and neither team give me any hope of victories.

True story, at the Edinburgh game at CAP, 65 minutes in, a guy in the row in front of me got up, muttered 'well so much for this season' and left. Didn't see him last week, or this, and to be honest the entire crowd understands his sentiment.

I swear half the season ticket holders are holding out to see the Blues backline of Tomos, Evans, Lane, Lee lo, halaholo, Adams, Amos...

Sadly, without a pack, and a 48 year old 8, what's the point having that type of backline? They'll live off scraps, and feel the need to score every play!

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Post by miaow on Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:53 am

That's pretty depressing, but not surprised. Seems like the derbies are about the only games fans want to go and watch.

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Post by Dirtydave on Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:53 am

If that! I've just signed up to work on the boxing day derby...

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Post by miaow on Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:03 pm

5 players from the south of Africa in the Ospreys' starting line up when facing the Kings - Klim, Botha, Venter, Orie, and Dirksen.

That alone is a worrying indictment of how bad things are at the Liberty, frankly. 1/3 of the team is journeymen Africans and yet they still get turned over by the dregs of South African regional rugby. At home.

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:50 pm

Please stop derailing this with an obsession about South Africans

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Post by Pal Joey on Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:01 pm

Perhaps it's time for a separate Journeyman African thread... but I think Biltong covered that one back in 2015? or thereabouts.
It was a long list if I recall correctly. Well over 320 players from memory but it could have possibly been even more.
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Post by miaow on Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:55 pm

Mods, can you please step in for derailing and trolling please?

Only so much of the good fight this cat can do by itself...

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:56 pm

As the World Cup's over, wouldn't it be a better idea to close this thread and start a general Wales one?

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Post by miaow on Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:59 pm

I assume the title can be edited to update it but if it keeps the trolls away then it wouldn't be a bad idea.

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Post by The Oracle on Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:13 pm

Dirtydave wrote:So, to return this to a Welsh discussion...

I'm a season ticket holder for blues and dragons, and neither team give me any hope of victories.

True story, at the Edinburgh game at CAP, 65 minutes in, a guy in the row in front of me got up, muttered 'well so much for this season' and left. Didn't see him last week, or this, and to be honest the entire crowd understands his sentiment.

I swear half the season ticket holders are holding out to see the Blues backline of Tomos, Evans, Lane, Lee lo, halaholo, Adams, Amos...

Sadly, without a pack, and a 48 year old 8, what's the point having that type of backline? They'll live off scraps, and feel the need to score every play!

I haven't watched the Blues so can't comment, but disagree about the Dragons. We're looking better this year already. Of course we've had a couple of tonkings. But we've got a couple of wins too.... as many as Jackman managed in a whole season in the league. We had a battling loss to Edinburgh with some excellent signs the other day. We've got a few players to come back in...... not as many as other regions, obviously. But when you're a poor side the likes of Moriarty, Hill, Dee will make a difference. So in terms of 'neither team gives me much hope for a victory'.... for the Dragons look no further than the next home game in the league which is against Zebre. Surely you'd have 'hope' for that one as we've already beaten them away 52-28. And we'll win a few more this year, especially at home. I'm sure of that. We won't be stellar. But we've already won away for the first time in like 20 years and have also beaten a Glasgow team that, while shorn of their internationals, still usually manage to beat us during the international windows. So there is some hope, in my humble opinion.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:02 pm

Blues are another team that hits below their weight, the coach comes across as a bit dim too, not to mention delusional given his “we’re the best region” jibe. I remember having an argument with Phil over it, and his argument was “well we have XX budget so we’re doing good..” Jeez. Looks like I’ve since been proven right, they have gone backwards under Mulvihill and Wilson was under appreciated. 

I appreciate that it’s a Welsh rugby issue though. We’ve already spoken about the state of the Ospreys elsewhere. Let us not kid ourselves with Dragons either. They struggle with collisions, they struggle to put phases together, as well as plenty other basics. That includes the game against Zebre btw, that was another sub-standard performance. The game against Edinburgh was probably our best, so if we can play in the same vein then we’ll get a few more wins. Consistency has never been our strong point though. All in all, Dragons (like two of the other Welsh teams) look like they’re a level below most of the other pro teams in this league. I’m also a little tired of reading “we have X amount of international missing.” - so do the rest, the teams that put 5-6 tries past us. Leinster have the most missing I think. 

Where’s the investment from the WRU, or haven’t we paid off loans yet? We even sold the naming rights of our great stadium... Surely I’m not the only one to see it, I mean if the WRU can’t see the state of our teams then what exactly is it that they’re doing? The union seriously needs to invest or we risk going back to the doldrums, if we aren’t there already. The Scottish, Irish and one of the Italians are better than we are. If we improve I imagine that would encourage help from other investors but it needs to happen now.

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Post by miaow on Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:41 am

Den Ryan will get the Dragons in to decent shape. He's a quality coach. If he's paid well enough and stays for 3-4 years or mre he could really be the redeemer in the region.

The Ospreys are shocking. Clarke is clearly not up to the job. It seems much more prudent to put Howley or, better still, McBryde in charge of them. Why are we handing out development coaching contracts to the IRFU while they take the decent Welsh coaches and give them bit part roles - which are no doubt attractive financially, but ultimately take them away from Wales. Seems we're getting screwed over both ways.

Not sure about the Blues. Dury's still out on them.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:18 pm

miaow wrote:Den Ryan will get the Dragons in to decent shape. He's a quality coach. If he's paid well enough and stays for 3-4 years or mre he could really be the redeemer in the region.

The Ospreys are shocking. Clarke is clearly not up to the job. It seems much more prudent to put Howley or, better still, McBryde in charge of them. Why are we handing out development coaching contracts to the IRFU while they take the decent Welsh coaches and give them bit part roles - which are no doubt attractive financially, but ultimately take them away from Wales. Seems we're getting screwed over both ways.

Not sure about the Blues. Dury's still out on them.

I'm sorry, who?

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:23 pm

JD2 out for 6 months after undergoing knee surgery.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50390897

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:25 pm

If I were Pivac I'd use the baa-baa's game for some returning players (if available), like Faletau, Hill, etc. I would hand debuts to Halaholo and McNicholl too, not sure if this is capped but it's a competitive game anyway.

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Post by TightHEAD on Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:29 pm

Hands off Faletau, let him get some game time under his belt at Bath.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:34 pm

Patchell out for 16 weeks following shoulder surgery. We're doing awful on the injury front right now. For that game we would hand a start to Jarrod Evans, have him play outside Tomos Williams so he doesn't have to suffer Aled again.

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Post by bsando on Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:49 pm

Shame about JD2, he'll be a big loss for Wales in the 6N. Who is likely to replace him?

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:57 pm

Good question as I don't recall anyone else playing much at 13 for us, to a high enough standard at least. Our centres are usually interchangeable anyway. We'll have to wait and see who's showing good form (not Scott Williams).

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:25 pm

All sorts of issues trying to make a back line for the Barbarians match at the end of the month.

Currently unavailable: Anscombe, Biggar, Patchell, JD2, North, Williams
Doubtful: Parkes, 1/2p

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Post by LordDowlais on Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:25 pm

Like I have said previously, Wayne Pivoc has got one hell of job to do with Wales going forwards. Gatland has left at the right time. Crying or Very sad

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Post by TightHEAD on Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:14 pm

So many injuries, Gatland really beasted these players before and during the RWC.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:21 pm

LondonTiger wrote:All sorts of issues trying to make a back line for the Barbarians match at the end of the month.

Currently unavailable: Anscombe, Biggar, Patchell, JD2, North, Williams
Doubtful: Parkes, 1/2p

I'll try.

9. Tomos Williams
10. Jarrod Evans
11. Josh Adams
12. Willis Halaholo
13. Adam Warren
14. Johnny McNicholl
15. Hallam Amos

Reps: Gareth Davies, Dan Jones, Owen Watkin.
Other bets; Rhodri Williams, Sam Davies, Tyler Morgan, Owen Lane, Scott Williams. Not too bad.


Last edited by mikey_dragon on Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:32 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by TightHEAD on Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:26 pm

Scott Williams?
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