Wales RWC 2019 thread Number II

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Post by maestegmafia on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 12:46 pm

First topic message reminder :

WALES’ 2019 RWC SQUAD:

Forwards: Jake Ball, Adam Beard, Rhys Carre, James Davies, Elliot Dee, Ryan Elias, Tomas Francis, Cory Hill, Alun Wyn Jones, Wyn Jones, Dillon Lewis, Ross Moriarty, Josh Navidi, Ken Owens, Aaron Shingler, Nicky Smith, Justin Tipuric, Aaron Wainwright.

Backs: Josh Adams, Hallam Amos, Dan Biggar, Aled Davies, Gareth Davies, Jonathan Davies, Leigh Halfpenny, George North, Hadleigh Parkes, Rhys Patchell, Owen Watkin, Liam Williams, Tomos Williams.

Pool D

AUSTRALIA, WALES, GEORGIA, FIJI, URUGUAY

Match 1

Australia vs Fiji... Sapporo Dome... Saturday, September 21... 5.45am BST... (ITV)

Match 2

Wales vs Georgia... City of Toyota Stadium... Monday, September 23... 11.15am BST... (ITV)

Match 3

Fiji vs Uruguay... Kamaishi Recovery Memorial Stadium... Wednesday, September 25... 6.15am BST... (ITV 4)

Match 4

Georgia vs Uruguay... Kumagaya Rugby Stadium... Sunday, September 29... 6.15am BST... (ITV)

Match 5

Australia vs Wales... Tokyo Stadium... Sunday, September 29... 8.45am BST... (ITV)

Match 6

Georgia vs Fiji... Hanazono Rugby Stadium... Thursday, October 3... 6.15am BST... (ITV 4)

Match 7

Australia vs Uruguay... Oita Stadium... Saturday, October 5... 6.15am BST... (ITV)

Match 8

Wales vs Fiji... Oita Stadium... Wednesday, October 9... 10.45am BST... (ITV)

Match 9

Australia vs Georgia... Shizuoka Stadium Ecopa... Friday, October 11... 11.15am BST... (ITV 4)

Match 10

Wales vs Uruguay... Kumamoto Stadium... Sunday, October 13... 9.15am BST... (ITV)


Last edited by maestegmafia on Thu 19 Sep 2019, 8:06 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by TightHEAD on Tue 24 Sep 2019, 6:57 pm

Was North injured when he scored? A player with a history of concusions lying down not moving was a bit worrying yet no one did anything?
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Post by The Oracle on Tue 24 Sep 2019, 7:00 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Was North injured when he scored? A player with a history of concusions lying down not moving was a bit worrying yet no one did anything?  


No.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 24 Sep 2019, 7:53 pm

Yikes, never pictured us having a lock crisis. One more down that's very much the case. I haven't been impressed by Seb Davies or Thornton to be honest. Hopefully the next lot coming through turn our pretty good.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 24 Sep 2019, 8:00 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Was North injured when he scored? A player with a history of concusions lying down not moving was a bit worrying yet no one did anything?  

Did he not wind himself by landing on the ball?

Anyway he was not injured so why would it be worrying that no-one did anything?

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Post by RiscaGame on Tue 24 Sep 2019, 8:01 pm

I’ve heard Big Joe Davies is next off the rank.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 24 Sep 2019, 8:09 pm

Screech wouldn't be a bad call, he could go the way of Cory Hill? Scarlets new coach probably doesn't rate Welsh locks either, seeing as he's brought in another one from the pacific islands.

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Post by miaow on Tue 24 Sep 2019, 8:22 pm

North looked a bit winded. Landed with a man on his back. Both arms were outstretched in a way that neither hits the floor/takes any of his body weight, so he's effectively landing on his diaphragm before anything else, with a player pushing down on him. Add in the fact it was fairly a long time in play (quick lineout) without a proper break, in the last minute of the first game, and he was probably just knackered.

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Post by RiscaGame on Tue 24 Sep 2019, 8:32 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Screech wouldn't be a bad call, he could go the way of Cory Hill? Scarlets new coach probably doesn't rate Welsh locks either, seeing as he's brought in another one from the pacific islands.

He’s not bad. I don’t think any lock from Dragons could step up, but then many would’ve thought that of Hill. I think they’re going to push Max Williams more this season, to be honest.

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 10:46 am

LondonTiger wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Was North injured when he scored? A player with a history of concusions lying down not moving was a bit worrying yet no one did anything?  

Did he not wind himself by landing on the ball?

Anyway he was not injured so why would it be worrying that no-one did anything?

Because old boy he has had a few concussions that we know of already, SIS (Second-impact syndrome) is a real thing that we are only just understanding.

How long was North down not moving?
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Post by The Oracle on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 10:52 am

Where was the head impact in that move?
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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 10:57 am

The Oracle wrote:Where was the head impact in that move?

There wasn't an obvious one, but there doesn't need to be as its his brain moving inside his skull that could have been the problem.Rolling Eyes

But do please keep ganging up, maybe Mae will get involved again and ban me again for having an opinion on a rugby forum site! Erm or maybe segregate fans so that we can only talk about our Nation of birth?
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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 10:59 am

TightHEAD wrote:maybe Mae will get involved again and ban me again

Yeah hopefully.

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 11:03 am

Have you ever made a comment about rugby Mikey?

Just wondering. Cool


Tighthead and Mikey Dragon - you have both had your say. Please do not let this degenerate into a flame war. You are each responsible for your own actions and will be treated accordingly should this advice be ignored.


Last edited by LondonTiger on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 11:24 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Modding)
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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 11:19 am

TightHEAD wrote:
The Oracle wrote:Where was the head impact in that move?

There wasn't an obvious one, but there doesn't need to be as its his brain moving inside his skull that could have been the problem.Rolling Eyes

But do please keep ganging up, maybe Mae will get involved again and ban me again for having an opinion on a rugby forum site! Erm or maybe segregate fans so that we can only talk about our Nation of birth?

Perhaps you need to look at how you post if you actually want people to think you are putting forward an opinion rather than a wind up?

North was fine. Yes he has had a series of concussions but that does not mean every time he does not move as much as you want it is to do with concussion.

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 11:22 am

TightHEAD wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Was North injured when he scored? A player with a history of concusions lying down not moving was a bit worrying yet no one did anything?  

Did he not wind himself by landing on the ball?

Anyway he was not injured so why would it be worrying that no-one did anything?

Because old boy he has had a few concussions that we know of already, SIS (Second-impact syndrome) is a real thing that we are only just understanding.

How long was North down not moving?

So what you are saying is that every time North, in your opinion, does not stand up quickly enough he should be taken from the field? Hell he will have rattled his brain more on his honeymoon than in scoring that try.

How long was he down for? Well let me check.

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 11:30 am

North started moving as soon as the guy who landed on him got off.

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 11:31 am

Long enough for a team mate or medic to ask if his ok.

He wasn't moving.
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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 11:35 am

TightHEAD wrote:Long enough for a team mate or medic to ask if his ok.

He wasn't moving.
 Wrong, go back and look. As soon as the guy gets off him he moves his head. A team mate comes to tap him on the head, North gets up and looks winded. There really was no issue however so much you want to create one.

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 11:39 am

Whatever

I'll Frak off to the England thread now.

Clearly I'm not allowed an opinion here! kiss
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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 11:46 am

TightHEAD wrote:Whatever

I'll Frak off to the England thread now.

Clearly I'm not allowed an opinion here! kiss

You are allowed an opinion, but if someone thinks it is wrong they can argue and you can present evidence as to why they are wrong and you are right.

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Post by miaow on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 1:59 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Because old boy he has had a few concussions that we know of already, SIS (Second-impact syndrome) is a real thing that we are only just understanding.

How long was North down not moving?

I explained to you why he was winded. What are you confused about?

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 2:54 pm

What if you were wrong?
Is it worth the risk?

Rugby needs to get rid of this 'Never mind lad get back out there, in my day men were men and just got on with it' attitude.

Safety first.
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Post by The Oracle on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 3:08 pm

TIGHTHEAD, it is clear that you are implying some sort of negligence on behalf of Wales and the Welsh Management, and are trying to wind up the Welsh supporters. How very sad nope
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Post by miaow on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 3:23 pm

TightHEAD wrote:What if you were wrong?
Is it worth the risk?

Some sage words that would do well to be heeded by all on 606 with regard to what they post, I feel...

Fortunately for Wales, I'm not the team doctor/medic. So if I'm wrong it's of no consequence. But I'm fairly certain I, and LondonTiger and others, are correct. Weird. I feel like you're gloating in the idea of North being concussed. All very sinister TH...

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 3:28 pm

Dr Barry O'Driscoll has already said 2 years ago that North would be told to retire if he wasn't a Pro player.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38397614


To imply I am on some sort of quest is rather pathetic, a players health and future well being is far more important to me than upsetting a few concussion dinosaurs on a rugby forum.

Each to their own I guess.

Also worth a read miaow.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11264856

Shontayne Hape "The specialist explained that my brain was so traumatised, had swollen so big that even just getting a tap to the body would knock me out."
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Post by The Oracle on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 3:54 pm

I thought you were fraking off to the England thread (your words)? Do we have to put up with this nonsense for the whole World Cup?

In summary, you thought North stayed down a bit long. Others disagree. That’s the end of it. Nice point to raise but there is nothing more to discuss. To suggest we’re ‘concussion dinosaurs’ is ridiculous. Believe it or not my colleagues who I share an office with actually work in rugby concussion research! So I know plenty about it and chat about it regularly with far more informed persons than you, thanks.

Seriously, sort your life out.
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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 4:07 pm

My nephew works on concussion research too, small world hey!
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Post by Pie on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 4:14 pm

Hey MODS thanks for letting Tighthead take every opportunity for a wind up on the Wales thread.

He knows what he's doing
Welsh posters know what he is doing
Only people who dont seem to be you

clap clap

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Post by The Oracle on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 4:16 pm

TightHEAD wrote:My nephew works on concussion research too, small world hey!

Where does he work? I might know him.
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Post by miaow on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 4:40 pm

Not sure having a go at the mods is the right thing to do here. He's clearly just WUMming now, but not enough to merit a red pen. Just ignore it, it's weird, and pathetic, and the faux-concern about concussion only thinly veils the gleeful sadism behind his comments. Don't give the old man ammunition and let's just discuss Wales.

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Post by Pie on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 4:52 pm

[quote="miaow"]Not sure having a go at the mods is the right thing to do here. He's clearly just WUMming now, but not enough to merit a red pen. Just ignore it, it's weird, and pathetic, and the faux-concern about concussion only thinly veils the gleeful sadism behind his comments. Don't give the old man ammunition and let's just discuss Wales.[/quote]

So says the diplomatic expert Laugh

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Post by miaow on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 4:55 pm

Wales' injury and exemption list so far:

- Cory Hill (leg fracture, medium term) - #4/5, Vice Captain Wales
- Ellis Jenkins (long term, knee) - #6/7, Vice Captain Wales
- Sam Warburton (retired, mutiple injuries) - #7, Captain Wales/B&I Lions
- Taulupe Faletau (long term, broken shoulder?) - #8, B&I Test Lion
- Rhys Webb (France, ineligible) - #9, B&I Test Lion
- Gareth Anscombe (cruciate, long term) - #10

That's about as close as you can come to a core of the team. 2 of those players are as close to nailed on starters for both Wales and the Lions as you can get, who will never be dropped unless injured. Another 3 had become key first team players by the time of their injuries. The only question mark was around Ellis Jenkins - who, by the time Warburton had retired, had almost certainly made himself a key member of the #23 in Gatland's mind, but we'll never really know.

I honestly don't think ANY team comes close to this in terms of disruption to first team planning. Not in the NH anyway. The only one you could question would be a SA or NZ who have lost players to the north, but in reality, SA and Oz still pick their overseas players, and there aren't that many players not picked by the ABs who'd make the squad let alone the first XV. Of course, it's not the same situation - and you can't compare what Fiji, Tonga, Samoa, or Georgia face in getting a team together.

But Wales don't have the depth to lose 6 key players for a WC and not have it make a huge impact.

The fact this isn't being mentioned is a testament to how well the team is coping, how well they've been winning, and how well the replacements have stepped up.

There's possibly Adam Beard (surgery recovery, short term) to add to that list as well which would be less than ideal. You could possibly add Rhys Priestland (ineligible) to the list as well, as it's a tough call saying Jarod Evans is the better test player.

Anyway, huge credit has to go to the team for dealing with what they've been dealt so far. You have to hope they can get through the groups with only minor niggles at most. But Fiji away with minimal fuss would be desirable, and Uruguay don't look the biggest, but they have to throw everything at Australia and see where the rubble lies afterwards.







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Post by rodders on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 4:56 pm

TH can you start a separate thread about concussion if you want to keep discussing this?
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Post by Pie on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 5:40 pm

Hill Faletau and Webb

What a difference they would make back 5 and 9 axis

AWJ, Hill, Navidi, Tipuric, Faletau and Webb

Although I think Davies gets better and better and If other Moriarty or Wainwright spark then we'll do fine. Navidi is fast becoming a back row legend of the Charvis variety

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 5:50 pm

It's as if people are surprised at the behaviour of HERSH chin. He's been doing it since 2007 as far as I know so yeah, it must be sadism.

I think we're going to be suffering if we take on more injuries. Davies and Williams are good 9s, our other option looks below semi-pro level. What a difference Webb could make. Hill, Faletau, Jenkins and Anscombe would all make a great difference to the squad too. One of our strengths during the unbeaten run was the bench and I feel we're losing that. Navidi is becoming undroppable, but to confirm that POV I need to see him perform in some more big games, like the upcoming one I guess.

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Post by RiscaGame on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 7:14 am

Australia: Dane Haylett-Petty; Adam Ashley-Cooper, James O'Connor, Samu Kerevi, Marika Koroibete; Bernard Foley, Will Genia; Scott Sio, Tolu Latu, Allan Alaalatoa, Izack Rodda, Rory Arnold, David Pocock, Michael Hooper, Isi Naisarani.

Replacements: Jordan Uelese, James Slipper, Sekope Kepu, Adam Coleman, Lukhan Salakaia-Loto, Nic White, Matt To'omua, Kurtley Beale.

Wales: Liam Williams; George North, Jonathan Davies, Hadleigh Parkes, Josh Adams; Dan Biggar, Gareth Davies; Wyn Jones, Ken Owens, Tomas Francis, Jake Ball, Alun Wyn Jones, Aaron Wainwright, Justin Tipuric, Josh Navidi.

Replacements: Elliot Dee, Nicky Smith, Dillon Lewis, Aaron Shingler, Ross Moriarty, Tomos Williams, Rhys Patchell, Owen Watkin.

Congratulations to AWJ breaking the cap record.

One change in our 23 (Watkin for Halfpenny). I really thought that they would pick Smith for this, but I understand why Jones stays in.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 9:19 am

The other change I would have made is having a lock on the bench (Davies), with possibly leaving Moriarty out.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 9:20 am

Congrats to AWJ, it's no small feat especially as a second row.

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Post by miaow on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 12:54 pm

Would have kept Halfpenny, personally. I understand why they want Watkin, but Patchell is prone to falling apart if he's forced to kick at goal, which means we have one proven test match kicker in the 23.

Add in the fact it's Australia, where the Welsh pessimism meets brash self-belief, and the last thing we need is an outside half having a nervous meltdown in the final 10 minutes.

As I think I said earlier - if not in this thread, elsewhere - not surprised to see Foley back, and starting as well. Genia was guaranteed a start after the Fiji game, but Australia need Foley. They've gone for experience in AAC over Beale.

I think we can have a go at them out wide. Haylett-Petty is a bit hit and miss and I'd like to see North, Adams, and Liam against him, AAC and O'Connor both in the air, and with the ball in hand. Koroibete and Kerevi are big threats, and we'll need to front up there.

Quietly confident with those teams but still worried about Dillon Lewis, and to a lesser extent Nicky Smith, in the scrums.

I can see both teams struggling in the lineouts. Wales aren't great but the Ozzies have huge locks. And Latu can't throw the ball straight or true. So could be a source of frustration for both sides there.

If ever there was a must win game against the Wallabies, this is it for Wales. Scraped past them last year but we have to go out and beat them - as we did in 2015, but this time on the scoreboard as well. Go and play and enjoy running the ball. Fear will kill us.

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 2:50 pm

Good luck Wales Wales

This is your time, favourites against Aus in a RWC.
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Post by Heaf on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 2:58 pm

Looking forwards to this - should be the match of the weekend ...

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 3:21 pm

Wales vs Aus or Tighthead vs the mods?

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Post by Heaf on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 3:27 pm

Laugh

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Post by miaow on Sun 29 Sep 2019, 2:15 pm

Proved to be match of the weekend.

Finally, then, we're now set up to top the pool for the first time in Gatland's tenure.

2011 worked out with Ireland beating Oz in the end, and Wales fairly comfortable in victory. Then 'that' France game.

We might now have France, and then the Boks - a 1 point, squeaky, did-he-didn't-he-James-Hook-penalty loss to SA in 2011 which announced the beginning of the Gatland era proper; and then a last 5 minutes try against Cuthbert in 2015 to beat us by less than 5 in 2015. Been our nemesis twice then, but Wales have a nice winning streak against them. Don't think they've lost to them since that RWC game 4 years ago - a 4 match winning streak?

As a side note, what a relief it is having a proper winger in Josh Adams as opposed to Cuthbert. There's basically no one in the side now who lacks rugby IQ - no Andy Powells, no Cuthberts.

Too far ahead to start looking at a semi final - should walk Uruguay, but Fiji are a banana skin, and France are potent and a real, genuine threat. Particularly in greasy conditions. Could als beat England and we end up having to play EJ's men.

But set it up nicely for the best chance of a WC final, perhaps ever, for Wales. Keep enough players fit and, like with the Grand Slam this year, there's a quiet confidence we can get there. And if it's the ABs, then it's a shot to nothing for the trophy.

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Post by No9 on Sun 29 Sep 2019, 10:46 pm

If.....and a big if...we (Wales) get to the final, who do you want to see there.

Personally, I’d like to meet the All Blacks. Can you imagine, not only beating the All Blacks since 1953 but doing it in a RWC final to stop them taking 3rd successive. Would be a very big ask, but what a day that would be,

Failing that, second choice to meet in the final would be England....for obvious reasons... kiss

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Post by miaow on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 12:38 am

England would be great. If feel like it would be a bit like meeting some kind of wild man. All bloodied and spittle flecked, bags around their wide eyes, (emotionally/physically) battered and bruised for the journey it took to finally, entually, get to the crest of the hill and be in sight of the trophy. If they do 4 in a row - including the ABs in the semis - they will be 70% certain they'll win the thing, and if Wales are suffering with an injury or two in key positions, they almost certainly would as well. We've yet to see England really flourish against Wales in competitive games, not for a while, anyway. The closest they've come to cutting loose was 2014 and 2016, with 2014 being where they really did a job on us. But we've not seen them do what they did to Ireland this year to Wales. And they can.

If Wales are in the final, I'd almost quite like the Wallabies again, but really, you have to assume it'll be NZ with their schedule. Need to sort out the scrum if we're to stand a chance - can have no glaring weaknesses, and at the moment, the scrum is an issue.

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Post by Pie on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 12:52 am

That was an unrecognizable Welsh side. Great performance and Aus have only one person to blame and thats Cheika who picked the wrong 10 cos he was scared.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 10:20 am

Lewis can't scrum, it's official now. We don't need an extra flanker as we have enough of those, we need a scrummaging prop on the TH. Smith seems hit or miss now, usually he was good due to that low centre of gravity. Of the top tier nations Wales look one of the worst in the scrum, compared to Eng, Aus, SA, NZ, Ire. The props in those playing nations just look better. The props in SA and Ire are huge.

It could be a bad idea leaving out Evans and Lee. I watched them against Connacht however, and in those conditions with a poor referee it was hard to tell if they were as dominant as expected. A lot of scrum went down.

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Post by miaow on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 1:26 pm

It's been clear for a while Lewis can't scrum. Nicky Smith not great either. Dee is small for a hooker as well, and if Jake Ball goes off, that's 4 of the tight 5 who are both lightweight and technically poor.

It's a big risk for Wales. Paid off yesterday as Smith was good in the loose, didn't see too much of Lewis but that's probably a good thing, wasn't walking back/leaving gaps like Samson.

Rob Evans is the obvious one who should be in the side, but Samson is so poor in the loose, unless he's dominating like Adam Jones used to, he's not worth it.

Good tet against Fiji. Big boys, but technically maybe a bit loose. Need to find a scrum by the time of the French game.

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Post by The Oracle on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 1:43 pm

I think this is part of the reason why we're not finishing as strongly as we have done over the past few years. People talk about how we turn games around in the last quarter when the opposition tire and our fitness is superior (allegedly). But recently it has been us in the lead and other teams clawing back. Great that we're now often leading. But part of the problem must be bringing on a front row of Smith, Dee and Lewis. All have their merits individually but as a unit they are quite a step down from Francis, Owens and Jones, IMO. As others have pointed out, Lee and Rob Evans were off the pace a bit due to injury recovery, etc. but I feel having players of their quality on the bench would help us finish stronger. I think they could do a 25 min substitute job well and maintain the platform even if they haven't perhaps got the fitness to start the games. But with the subs we're now using they're often driven backwards on the first scrum they're involved in as a unit! And then teams are able to get back in the game once our platform goes. It' always hide behind the sofa time when the subs are on and someone knocks on!
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