Scotland v Samoa - Monday 30th September 11:15 KO (BST)

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 4:31 pm

First topic message reminder :

So to stop myself contemplating who could be a good replacement for Toonie, I've decided to start a match thread.

Scotland
Scotland v Samoa - Monday 30th September 11:15 KO (BST) - Page 5 Image10

Samoa
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Previous 4 meetings
2012 (Apia)
Sam 16-17 Sco
2013 (Durban)
Sam 27-17 Sco
2015 (RWC)
Sam 33-36 Sco
2017 (Murrayfield)
Sco 44-38 Sam
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Post by LordDowlais on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 1:35 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:To continue the narrative from the Welsh match threads. Wink

How were Scotland allowed to be constantly offside ? They were offside all game ? Didn't the ref want to enforce the offside rule ? How do Scotland always get away with being offside ? Very Happy


Anyway.

Well done Scotland, to come away with not giving your opponents a single point is good going. The Japan match is now massive, but you should beat them. Samoa were very physical, sometimes illegal, but you more than stood up to them, and kept them out, it was a very efficient performance. If you defend like this against Japan, then you should have no worries.

For clarification purposes, is this a joke with no intention to WUM?

100% yes, hence the smileys. thumbsup

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 1:36 pm

bsando wrote:Thomson would have been my MOM, just the backrow really they did really really well. Thomson isn’t a Denton carrier but boy is he speedy and abrasive. I think he’s the perfect 8 for Scotland really.

Particularly with Bradbury at 6, who does the brick wall carrying. It has the makings of a handy combo, and I don't see Barclay or Wilson breaking back into it.

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 1:36 pm

Easy enough for Scotland against a dismal Samoa side. The game against Japan on the 13th should be a cracker.

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Post by TightHEAD on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 1:39 pm

Don't think Samoa offer anything to the competition.
They need to re-invent themselves and learn how to play the game in the 21st century.
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Post by miaow on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 1:39 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW wrote:Ritchie my MOTM

Agreed, huge shift. Bradbury impressed me as well. Much better back row combo than against Ireland.

Agreed. No idea how Bradbury wasn't in the main squad. Stood out in this year's 6Ns.

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Post by Old Man on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 1:41 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Don't think Samoa offer anything to the competition.
They need to re-invent themselves and learn how to play the game in the 21st century.

Or perhaps retain their players and have money invested in their local rugby.

Which we both know isn’t going to happen.

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Post by TightHEAD on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 1:43 pm

Old Man wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Don't think Samoa offer anything to the competition.
They need to re-invent themselves and learn how to play the game in the 21st century.

Or perhaps retain their players and have money invested in their local rugby.

Which we both know isn’t going to happen.

Learning how to Tackle, ruck and defend would also be useful. Very Happy
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Post by LordDowlais on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 1:43 pm

Old Man wrote:Or perhaps retain their players and have money invested in their local rugby.

Their union is far too corrupt to be trusted with investment, they would be better off allowing world rugby to run things for them for a while.

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Post by TightHEAD on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 1:44 pm

Well done Scotland btw..........

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Post by Old Man on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 1:44 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Old Man wrote:Or perhaps retain their players and have money invested in their local rugby.

Their union is far too corrupt to be trusted with investment, they would be better off allowing world rugby to run things for them for a while.

Agreed, but it still won’t happen.

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Post by bsando on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 1:46 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
bsando wrote:Thomson would have been my MOM, just the backrow really they did really really well. Thomson isn’t a Denton carrier but boy is he speedy and abrasive. I think he’s the perfect 8 for Scotland really.

Particularly with Bradbury at 6, who does the brick wall carrying. It has the makings of a handy combo, and I don't see Barclay or Wilson breaking back into it.
Yes totally agree, Toonie May well have stumbled across his new 6,7,8 combo. Bradbury does a great job at 6 and Richie just gets better with each game, he’s become a valuable replacement for Watson. Wilson and Barclay definitely have a lot to do to earn back their jerseys.

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Post by TightHEAD on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 1:46 pm

All heads & limbs accounted for?

Never a given vs Samoa!
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Post by RDW on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 1:54 pm

miaow wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW wrote:Ritchie my MOTM

Agreed, huge shift. Bradbury impressed me as well. Much better back row combo than against Ireland.

Agreed. No idea how Bradbury wasn't in the main squad. Stood out in this year's 6Ns.

None of the Scotland fans could understand it either.

He paid the price for picking up an injury in training so he didn't feature in the warmup games before the squad was announced.

He was fit for the last one though so should still have been picked IMO. It was a mistake to pick both Barclay and Wilson.

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Post by EST on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 1:55 pm

Delighted with that win, in what were really tricky conditions.

We still look vulnerable, but at least we have something to build on from here.

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Post by EST on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 1:56 pm

RDW wrote:
miaow wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW wrote:Ritchie my MOTM

Agreed, huge shift. Bradbury impressed me as well. Much better back row combo than against Ireland.

Agreed. No idea how Bradbury wasn't in the main squad. Stood out in this year's 6Ns.

None of the Scotland fans could understand it either.

He paid the price for picking up an injury in training so he didn't feature in the warmup games before the squad was announced.

He was fit for the last one though so should still have been picked IMO. It was a mistake to pick both Barclay and Wilson.

Totally agree, they are far too similar a player.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 2:04 pm

Weird kinda game to observe for a semi-neutral. iScotland played what they met on the field and a good score line in the end. The first half was so sharp, accurate and had a good degree of variety to keep Samoa guessing where to put their troops, that I felt it was going to be an absolute rout in the second half - seven or eight tries.

So I'm a little confused that it didn't turn out that way because really Samoa didn't seem willing to offer much. And I'm not being critical of Scotland. I did honestly think the game, such as it was with what seemed like a lot of space to work with, would suit Scotland much more than for example it might suit Ireland. Still sometimes games work out that way, the opposition being so bad that you can't really get into the rhythm to really spank them.

Surely they (Samoa) are not waiting to give all their energies to the Japanese game? Planning another upset in this pool? I won't mind if they do Whistle Or maybe they're saving another big effort for Ireland, damn it!

Anyway. It seems from here on in wins are essential but also tries scored have to be plenty just in case calculations get messy in the end. Work really starts now.

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Post by BigGee on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 2:07 pm

Well i think Bradbury came of age today. I have never been completely sold on him as an international and to be honest, neither have the coaches, never quite did enough work. Rrmember they have GPS devices to back up their gut instincts.

Getting into the squad through the back door could be just what he needed to push on and make himself undropable. If he plays like that every week then no-one will be asking sny questions about him any more.

The whole back row wss outsrsnding in fact. We know how good JR can be but Blade Runner reslly stepped up as well. A shame he had so nany injuries ladt srason or he fojld already be really estxblished by now.

I sm starting to think that the game agsinst Russia might be John Barclay's last one for Scotland anx he may retire from international rugby after this WC.

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Post by RDW on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 2:16 pm

SecretFly wrote:Weird kinda game to observe for a semi-neutral.  iScotland played what they met on the field and a good score line in the end.  The first half was so sharp, accurate and had a good degree of variety to keep Samoa guessing where to put their troops, that I felt it was going to be an absolute rout in the second half - seven or eight tries.

So I'm a little confused that it didn't turn out that way because really Samoa didn't seem willing to offer much. And I'm not being critical of Scotland.  I did honestly think the game, such as it was with what seemed like a lot of space to work with, would suit Scotland much more than for example it might suit Ireland.  Still sometimes games work out that way, the opposition being so bad that you can't really get into the rhythm to really spank them.

Surely they (Samoa) are not waiting to give all their energies to the Japanese game?  Planning another upset in this pool?  I won't mind if they do Whistle  Or maybe they're saving another big effort for Ireland, damn it!

Anyway.  It seems from here on in wins are essential but also tries scored have to be plenty just in case calculations get messy in the end.  Work really starts now.

I think the conditions really played a huge part. Tom English has been pretty scathing of the WC organisers that they kept the roof shut in a stadium with no aircon - the heat and humidity was horrendous apparently. Not only did this lead to dropped balls but was also a major energy sapper.

I think Scotland played it spot on - they played the conditions and opposition perfectly. Yes it would have been nice to have had a few tries but if we'd played a more open game we would have run the risk of Samoa capitalising on mistakes and also us running out of steam due to the conditions.

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Post by 123456789. on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 2:20 pm

I'm not sure what went "wrong" in the second-half. The first half appeared grind them down and the floodgates seemed to have opened around the 20-30 minute mark. We were incredibly accurate. The second was a disparate, drab affair. We didn't seem to have the drive or ingenuity to finish them off. In terms of performance, I thought the locks were solid, the back-row was very good. Thomson seems like a better version of Wilson, not a huge carrier but intelligent enough to make ground and good enough to link up. He is a bigger, faster carrier than Wilson and a more intelligent player with it. Also increasingly strange that he didn't make the squad to begin with.
Harris was very solid and perhaps, given our current situation, may be a decent option at 13. I don't think he's as good a player as the other options but he does seem to be solid.

With a view to Russia I'd like to see wholesale changes, and if things go to plan bringing off those in contention for the Japan game at 40 minutes:

1. Reid
2. Turner
3. Fagerson
4. Cummings
5. Toolis
6. Barclay
7. Brown
8. Wilson
9. Pyrgos
10. Hastings
11. Seymour
12. Horne
13. Taylor
14. Graham
15. Kinghorn


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Post by tigertattie on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 2:21 pm

SecretFly wrote:Weird kinda game to observe for a semi-neutral.  iScotland played what they met on the field and a good score line in the end.  The first half was so sharp, accurate and had a good degree of variety to keep Samoa guessing where to put their troops, that I felt it was going to be an absolute rout in the second half - seven or eight tries.

So I'm a little confused that it didn't turn out that way because really Samoa didn't seem willing to offer much. And I'm not being critical of Scotland.  I did honestly think the game, such as it was with what seemed like a lot of space to work with, would suit Scotland much more than for example it might suit Ireland.  Still sometimes games work out that way, the opposition being so bad that you can't really get into the rhythm to really spank them.

Surely they (Samoa) are not waiting to give all their energies to the Japanese game?  Planning another upset in this pool?  I won't mind if they do Whistle  Or maybe they're saving another big effort for Ireland, damn it!

Anyway.  It seems from here on in wins are essential but also tries scored have to be plenty just in case calculations get messy in the end.  Work really starts now.

Ah but you forget Mr Fly that we are Scotland.

My take on it is that we were doing all the nice things that we do in the first half but then in the second half the players were starting to force things looking for that much needed BP. When we then start to force things, everything starts to unravel.

In terms of the Backrow, totally agree that it has more balance to it and that is mostly down to Wilson not being there. Barclay has been out of sorts but he is still twice the player that Wilson is.

For me the best backrow we have is Bradbury, Blade, Hamish with Ritchie on the bench covering 6 and 7 and if Blade needs to come off, Maggie moves to 8 and Ritchie slots into 6. I'd also say that games where we need a bludgeon, Bradbury starts but games where we need a mobile pack to be pests at the breakdown you have Ritchie start at 6 with Watson at 7.

In the meantime though, Ritchie is a capable Hamish replacement at 7
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Post by EWT Spoons on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 2:24 pm

123456789. wrote:I'm not sure what went "wrong" in the second-half. The first half appeared grind them down and the floodgates seemed to have opened around the 20-30 minute mark. We were incredibly accurate. The second was a disparate, drab affair. We didn't seem to have the drive or ingenuity to finish them off. In terms of performance, I thought the locks were solid, the back-row was very good. Thomson seems like a better version of Wilson, not a huge carrier but intelligent enough to make ground and good enough to link up. He is a bigger, faster carrier than Wilson and a more intelligent player with it.  Also increasingly strange that he didn't make the squad to begin with.
Harris was very solid and perhaps, given our current situation, may be a decent option at 13. I don't think he's as good a player as the other options but he does seem to be solid.

With a view to Russia I'd like to see wholesale changes, and if things go to plan bringing off those in contention for the Japan game at 40 minutes:

1. Reid
2. Turner
3. Fagerson
4. Cummings
5. Toolis
6. Barclay
7. Brown
8. Wilson
9. Pyrgos
10. Hastings
11. Seymour
12. Horne
13. Taylor
14. Graham
15. Kinghorn


Wilson came on Very Happy

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Post by BigGee on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 2:27 pm

I think in hindsight Matt Fagerson was very unlucky not to travel as well. There were to many inexperienced players i guess and yet they seem to have stepped up.

The Scottish bsck row is going to look very different going forward from this WC

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Post by Heuer27 on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 2:32 pm

tigertattie wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Weird kinda game to observe for a semi-neutral.  iScotland played what they met on the field and a good score line in the end.  The first half was so sharp, accurate and had a good degree of variety to keep Samoa guessing where to put their troops, that I felt it was going to be an absolute rout in the second half - seven or eight tries.

So I'm a little confused that it didn't turn out that way because really Samoa didn't seem willing to offer much. And I'm not being critical of Scotland.  I did honestly think the game, such as it was with what seemed like a lot of space to work with, would suit Scotland much more than for example it might suit Ireland.  Still sometimes games work out that way, the opposition being so bad that you can't really get into the rhythm to really spank them.

Surely they (Samoa) are not waiting to give all their energies to the Japanese game?  Planning another upset in this pool?  I won't mind if they do Whistle  Or maybe they're saving another big effort for Ireland, damn it!

Anyway.  It seems from here on in wins are essential but also tries scored have to be plenty just in case calculations get messy in the end.  Work really starts now.

Ah but you forget Mr Fly that we are Scotland.

My take on it is that we were doing all the nice things that we do in the first half but then in the second half the players were starting to force things looking for that much needed BP. When we then start to force things, everything starts to unravel.

In terms of the Backrow, totally agree that it has more balance to it and that is mostly down to Wilson not being there. Barclay has been out of sorts but he is still twice the player that Wilson is.

For me the best backrow we have is Bradbury, Blade, Hamish with Ritchie on the bench covering 6 and 7 and if Blade needs to come off, Maggie moves to 8 and Ritchie slots into 6. I'd also say that games where we need a bludgeon, Bradbury starts but games where we need a mobile pack to be pests at the breakdown you have Ritchie start at 6 with Watson at 7.

In the meantime though, Ritchie is a capable Hamish replacement at 7


This!!
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Post by miaow on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 2:38 pm

RDW wrote:
miaow wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW wrote:Ritchie my MOTM

Agreed, huge shift. Bradbury impressed me as well. Much better back row combo than against Ireland.

Agreed. No idea how Bradbury wasn't in the main squad. Stood out in this year's 6Ns.

None of the Scotland fans could understand it either.

He paid the price for picking up an injury in training so he didn't feature in the warmup games before the squad was announced.

He was fit for the last one though so should still have been picked IMO. It was a mistake to pick both Barclay and Wilson.

I'd be tempted to move Barclay to 8 as he was at the Scarlets. Have Blade coming off the bench, with those two on the flank.

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Post by BigGee on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 2:58 pm

Barclay unfortunately has not looked the same player since his injury.

I am sure he is still a really good player to have around the squad and has likely been invaluable in picking everyone up after the Ireland debacle. I csn see why he was picked and no-one really was that critical about it at the time.

He is however being shown up on the pitch by some of the young guns and is likely coming to the end of his international career.

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Post by reallybored on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 3:03 pm

Best BR imo is

6 - Ritchie
7 - Watson
8 - Bradbury

20 - Fagerson

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Post by miaow on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 3:04 pm

Hmm, in which case, Blade at 8, Barclay to bench, or is Wilson ahead of him?

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Post by RDW on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 3:07 pm

reallybored wrote:Best BR imo is

6 - Ritchie
7 - Watson
8 - Bradbury

20 - Fagerson

I just don't think that backrow is big enough to cope with the top Tier 1 packs, mainly due to both Ritchie and Watson on the flanks.

Thomson is slowly growing into his game at international level - if he keeps it up I think the number 8 shirt is his with Bradbury at 6.

Ritchie to be the classic versatile player that can fill in at 6 or 7 as required.

IMO Fagerson is still to prove himself at International level. He had a couple of good cameos in the warmups but needs to show it in proper tests.

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Post by BigGee on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 3:12 pm

Back ros is sn atricious podition and reslity is you are always going to need 5 or 6 to get you through a tournament or a tour.

After this WC we will likely have:

Bradbury
Thompson
Watson
Fagerson
Ritchie
Skinner

As our core group with the chances of a couple of others putting their names forward if they csn find form and favour

Gary Graham probably out of the equation until Newcasyle bring themselves back up but Crosbie, Smith, Carmichael

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Post by jimbopip on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 3:23 pm

I was very impressed with the victory and the calm efficient way it was achieved.

However, that's the second game where Sam Johnson was on starvation rations and had a minimal impact on the game. What is occurring? Is he not fit, or has Toonie decided that we don't want a 12 trucking it up so give it to the fat boys, but then again we do want the ball wide as soon as possible so ignore 12 and hit 13 or 15 asap.

If Furra Linee starts against Russia and has a stormer then selection for the Japan games will be interesting.

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Post by BigGee on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 3:26 pm

I would not say he did nothing Jim, his was a pretty impressive defensive shift. Him and Harriz were z bit of a brick wall and bsring injuries, i can't see that not being our starting centre combo going forward.

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Post by RDW on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 3:30 pm

Graham was probably the most underwhelming player - it was a big call to drop him for Seymour (the correct one) but he didn't really have a chance to show he is now un-droppable.

He didn't do much wrong but didn't seem to get on the ball much - I wonder if he was told to stay out wide instead of go looking for work, which isn't really his game.

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Post by EST on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 3:56 pm

jimbopip wrote:I was very impressed with the victory and the calm efficient way it was achieved.

However, that's the second game where Sam Johnson was on starvation rations and had a minimal impact on the game. What is occurring? Is he not fit, or has Toonie decided that we don't want a 12 trucking it up so give it to the fat boys, but then again we do want the ball wide as soon as possible so ignore 12 and hit 13 or 15 asap.

If Furra Linee starts against Russia and has a stormer then selection for the Japan games will be interesting.

I don't think Johnson has shown us his best stuff, i'd say Harris has nailed down the 13 position and its a three way battle for 12...I would not have said that a few weeks ago.

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Post by jimbopip on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 4:13 pm

EST wrote:
jimbopip wrote:I was very impressed with the victory and the calm efficient way it was achieved.

However, that's the second game where Sam Johnson was on starvation rations and had a minimal impact on the game. What is occurring? Is he not fit, or has Toonie decided that we don't want a 12 trucking it up so give it to the fat boys, but then again we do want the ball wide as soon as possible so ignore 12 and hit 13 or 15 asap.

If Furra Linee starts against Russia and has a stormer then selection for the Japan games will be interesting.

I don't think Johnson has shown us his best stuff, i'd say Harris has nailed down the 13 position and its a three way battle for 12...I would not have said that a few weeks ago.

Although I agree with Gee that he tackled everything that came his way, SJ's real value to a side is in what he brings going forward. In the Ireland game the plan was to by-pass the 12 channel and bring the back three in as quickly as possible and today's was to be a lot more controlled and use the forwards to tie in the Samoan defenders before going wide. SJ seems to have fallen into the cracks in Toonie's wall.

Mind you, The Hardest Working Centre in Scotland played well again. Furra and Spacey to start against Russia. Harris to bench?

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Post by BigGee on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 7:27 pm

That may well be the order of things. Horne will surely play 12 outside Hastings and whoever starts at 13 against Russia, surely benches against Japan. In current rsnkings, that would mesn Harris to start, Taylor to bench.

I think Horne will need an injury to someone to get any other game time in this WC

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Post by takethelongroad on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 11:47 pm

When the balls are not slippery FR / SJ is the best axis we have. Trouble is as you say Mr Pip, they bypassed 12 in game one and today the grip issues added a certain frisson to watching any handling based backs moves. I was pleased to see boot on ball all day long today. So far playing like last WC, gettibg the right balance for Russia is now the next challenge, needs to be Goldilocks porridge. I think we can beat Japan but would prefer they drop a BP along the way so we can negate the within 7pt margin of error that would be a typically tough on the blood pressure way to go out of the cup. Will be watching the other teams play this out with interest - work permitting.

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Post by Taylorman on Tue 01 Oct 2019, 12:04 am

Very good win for Scotland and theyre back in the race. Think theyll beat Japan as the ambush factor is now gone.

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Post by tigertattie on Tue 01 Oct 2019, 12:07 am

Had a chance to watch the game with a bit more focus and a few things stand out

1. Let’s not get carried away with the Scottish hype train. We were competent but nothing more. Hopefully it was just the slippery conditions.  

2. Ritchie should have been motm

3. What has happened to SJ? Is he suffering for second season syndrome? He’s just not doing much

4. Can’t believe I’m saying this but I think we need to drop JG. Cummings is coming on well and GG was more effective at carrying. JG never made it over the gain line with any of his carries. Compare that to Bradbury who got over it 80% of the time. JG’s mythical tackling stats don’t show that most of his tackles he’s flopping onto the ball carrier who is making it over their gain line. He never puts in a dominant tackle that drives a player back.

5. Poor Shrek had to come on early and by god he was nearly dead by the 50 min mark.

6. Can’t remember who was saying maitland needed dropped, but today he showed why that’s just not the case. Behind Ritchie he’d have been my motm and not just because of his try (and the penalty try) but he was the hardest working back bar far. Chasing kicks and coming In Looking for work. Some solid defensive work too.


Hopefully we can kick on now. Looking forward to seeing wee Horne playing most if not all 80 mins vs Russia with Frodo getting a wee nap. Will probably need dell to be rested with his knock and shrek can’t handle the pace for a game so Berghan likely starting at loosehead. Turner to get a run at 2 with Ragnar at 3?
We can’t go taking Russia too lightly though as we’re Scotland but surely we can put out a mostly 2nd XV against them?

The Japan game is going to be a nail biter.
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Post by RDW on Tue 01 Oct 2019, 8:38 am

I watched the game fully last night having has to rely on slyly having it on in the background at work. It was actually not as good a performance as I first thought, but it was certainly professional and determined by the conditions. We rode our luck with the BP try - it came minutes after Samoa kicked a penalty dead in our 22 on 72 minutes. If that had gone into touch we could have had several minutes defending our own line eating up time.

Worth saying how many bad tackles appeared to be missed - Thomson and Gilchrist almost had their heads taken off. If Ben Skeen had been TMO Samoa would have finished the game with 12 men! If world rugby are serious about this issue there should be citings.

My player ratings

Dell - NA Reid - 6

Dell looked sharp but went off early. Reid did ok on the scrum but was clearly struggling with the heat.

McInally - 7.5

Perfect lineout and back to his best with his carrying. I even heard him speaking to the ref!!

Nel - 7

Top scrummaging as always and a few decent carries. He's in great shape (for a prop).

Gilchrist - 6.5

A big part of our perfect lineout and a willing carrier. Took a huge dodgy looking hit before going off.

Gray - 6.5

A classic Gray workhorse performance, although no idea why he was MOTM. I still want to see more from both locks though.

Bradbury - 8

Can be summed up in one word - physical. Everything he did was physical whether carrying, tackling or rucking. Why was he not in the squad??

Ritchie - 8.5

My MOTM. He was everywhere and made some key turnovers. He was also a good link man with an assist for Laidlaw's try. We keep viewing him as back up to Watson but if he keeps this up can he still be viewed as only backup?? One of our most consistent players in 2019.

Thomson - 7.5

He seems to get better every game and has nailed the number 8 jersey IMO. He's like a bigger, better Ryan Wilson with less of the fighting tendencies.

Laidlaw - 7

Some good kicking and a well taken try. Service wasn't noticeably ponderous. He even put in a few tackles!

Russell - 8

Some sublime skill for two tries and excellent kicking ball game. This was a controlled Russell and it worked well.

Maitland - 8

His best game for a while with two well taken tries and plenty action throughout. A couple of loose passes knocks 0.5 off his score.

Johnson - 6

His quietest game of his short international career. Solid in defence but didn't do much in attack and dropped a couple of passes. We're certainly nowhere near him being replaced by Horne though!

Harris - 7.5

He had a decent game. Took a lot of hits in attack and defence but just got up and kept going. Made good yards in attack and linked well. I'd say he's our first choice 13 now.

Graham - 6

Had a decent start but struggled to influence the rest of the game. He was given the opportunity to show he should be a permanent pick on the wing and didn't take it.

Hogg - 8

May not have made his trademark breaks but his kicking game was world class. He really had his game face on and drove the team forwards.


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Post by George Carlin on Tue 01 Oct 2019, 9:16 am

I am still laughing at 'Mbawza'.
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Post by EST on Tue 01 Oct 2019, 9:20 am

RDW wrote:I watched the game fully last night having has to rely on slyly having it on in the background at work. It was actually not as good a performance as I first thought, but it was certainly professional and determined by the conditions. We rode our luck with the BP try - it came minutes after Samoa kicked a penalty dead in our 22 on 72 minutes. If that had gone into touch we could have had several minutes defending our own line eating up time.

Worth saying how many bad tackles appeared to be missed - Thomson and Gilchrist almost had their heads taken off. If Ben Skeen had been TMO Samoa would have finished the game with 12 men! If world rugby are serious about this issue there should be citings.

My player ratings

Dell - NA Reid - 6

Dell looked sharp but went off early. Reid did ok on the scrum but was clearly struggling with the heat.

McInally - 7.5

Perfect lineout and back to his best with his carrying. I even heard him speaking to the ref!!

Nel - 7

Top scrummaging as always and a few decent carries. He's in great shape (for a prop).

Gilchrist - 6.5

A big part of our perfect lineout and a willing carrier. Took a huge dodgy looking hit before going off.

Gray - 6.5

A classic Gray workhorse performance, although no idea why he was MOTM. I still want to see more from both locks though.

Bradbury - 8

Can be summed up in one word - physical. Everything he did was physical whether carrying, tackling or rucking. Why was he not in the squad??

Ritchie - 8.5

My MOTM. He was everywhere and made some key turnovers. He was also a good link man with an assist for Laidlaw's try. We keep viewing him as back up to Watson but if he keeps this up can he still be viewed as only backup?? One of our most consistent players in 2019.

Thomson - 7.5

He seems to get better every game and has nailed the number 8 jersey IMO. He's like a bigger, better Ryan Wilson with less of the fighting tendencies.

Laidlaw - 7

Some good kicking and a well taken try. Service wasn't noticeably ponderous. He even put in a few tackles!

Russell - 8

Some sublime skill for two tries and excellent kicking ball game. This was a controlled Russell and it worked well.

Maitland - 8

His best game for a while with two well taken tries and plenty action throughout. A couple of loose passes knocks 0.5 off his score.

Johnson - 6

His quietest game of his short international career. Solid in defence but didn't do much in attack and dropped a couple of passes. We're certainly nowhere near him being replaced by Horne though!

Harris - 7.5

He had a decent game. Took a lot of hits in attack and defence but just got up and kept going. Made good yards in attack and linked well. I'd say he's our first choice 13 now.

Graham - 6

Had a decent start but struggled to influence the rest of the game. He was given the opportunity to show he should be a permanent pick on the wing and didn't take it.

Hogg - 8

May not have made his trademark breaks but his kicking game was world class. He really had his game face on and drove the team forwards.


I'd say those scores are fair, RDW. As you mention, both locks need to show much, much more - the lack of dynamism brought by both of them is such a contrast to the likes of Itoje, Ryan, etc.

Overall, I think yesterday was a 6.5/10. Yes, we got the win and the conditions were terrible, but I thought aspects of our game were very poor: Supporting the ball carrier/clearing rucks, patience and decision making in attack especially.

Something to build on, but I think we still need to go up several notches.

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Post by tigertattie on Tue 01 Oct 2019, 9:24 am

George Carlin wrote:I am still laughing at 'Mbawza'.

It confuzzes the visitors to thinking we have a Namibian import in the ranks.

It also confuzzes them further when they try to figure out what the nickname is for once they see he's no from Namibia but a wee lad fi Dundee (though he's not a schemey fi Dundee as he went to Strathallen)
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Post by jimbopip on Tue 01 Oct 2019, 12:55 pm

EST wrote:Delighted with that win, in what were really tricky conditions.

We still look vulnerable, but at least we have something to build on from here.

This. thumbsup

The more I think about the game the less clear it seems.

At the 30 minute mark (approx.) we were 3-0 up and I was thinking that for all our possession and territory Samoa were one line break away from going in 7-3 ahead at half time. How would we have reacted? Instead we scored twice and at 20-0 we all expected the floodgates to burst pen after the interval. But we didn't pull away convincingly. Mind you we did achieve a 5 point win. I thought JG was fairly quiet. JG was man of the match. Erm

What did we need? A five point win and a better team performance. Fingers Crossed

What did we get?  A five point win and a better team performance. Yahoo

So, why the long face? As the barman said to the horse.

Dancer hasn't dazzled anyone yet.
Smiling Sam hasn't.
Spacey still isn't there yet.
The Hardest Working Centre In The World is looking better by the day by dint of....well, working hard.
Graham looked dangerous in the first 10 minutes and then the game passed him by.
Wee George came on and didn't take the rugby world by storm.
Dell went off injured, will he be fit for Russia? Shrek probably sweated out about a stone and a half.

I think the uncertain feeling comes from the fact that our successes are all things we didn't do.

We didn't fall behind early and then chase the scoreboard.
We didn't allow their defence to dominate our attack and cause us to go looking for the miracle offload.
When we still needed a fourth try with less than ten minutes to play we didn't panic.  

So, while we didn't do anything spectacularly good, apart from Hoggy's Zinzan impersonation, we didn't shoot ourselves in the foot. Repeatedly.

Eddie Butler once wrote a really good article about the legendary Ponty front row. They'd turn up, smash the opposing front row, collect their win bonus, get changed, pull their plastic Woolworths' combs out of their blazer pockets, slick the hair back with Brylcreem and head off to the clubhouse for a few beers. Every Saturday , rain or shine. They wouldn't be in two minds about yesterday's performance.

We just have to replicate it against Russia and then all the pressure will be on the host nation in the last match. Fingers Crossed

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Post by RDW on Tue 01 Oct 2019, 1:01 pm

Tell you what, all of Scotland will be Samoan next game as we really really really need Japan to not get a winning BP.

I suspect they will though, especially if Samoa play like they did yesterday.

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Post by jimbopip on Tue 01 Oct 2019, 1:14 pm

RDW wrote:Tell you what, all of Scotland will be Samoan next game as we really really really need Japan to not get a winning BP.

I suspect they will though, especially if Samoa play like they did yesterday.

I'm pretty sure a WBP is irrelevant for Japan.

They're on 9 at the moment and they can pick up 5 against Samoa =14

If we achieve two WBP's we end on 15.

If Japan get a LBP against us they will also be on 15 but we'll have won the head to head and be ahead of them in terms of who's at the head of the group. If you can get your head round that.

HOWEVER Shocked

If we score five converted tries we will score 35 points. If Japan score five tries and convert only four of them they will have scored 33 points

Scotland 35-Japan 33

Scotland 5 points for Bonus Point Win....move onto 15 points in the group.

Japan 1LBP + 1TBP = 16 points so are ahead of us in the group. picard

Now as for Ireland and typhoons. oh yeah

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Post by RDW on Tue 01 Oct 2019, 1:33 pm

jimbopip wrote:
RDW wrote:Tell you what, all of Scotland will be Samoan next game as we really really really need Japan to not get a winning BP.

I suspect they will though, especially if Samoa play like they did yesterday.

I'm pretty sure a WBP is irrelevant for Japan.

They're on 9 at the moment and they can pick up 5 against Samoa =14

If we achieve two WBP's we end on 15.

If Japan get a LBP against us they will also be on 15 but we'll have won the head to head and be ahead of them in terms of who's at the head of the group. If you can get your head round that.

HOWEVER Shocked

If we score five converted tries we will score 35 points. If Japan score five tries and convert only four of them they will have scored 33 points

Scotland 35-Japan 33

Scotland 5 points for Bonus Point Win....move onto 15 points in the group.

Japan 1LBP + 1TBP = 16 points so are ahead of us in the group. picard

Now as for Ireland and typhoons. oh yeah

So in conclusion, we could really do without Japan getting a BP!

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Post by jimbopip on Tue 01 Oct 2019, 2:37 pm

No, certainly not. We just need to beat them by eight points. Stopping them scoring four tries would be good too, but seriously if they score four tries they will most likely win the match anyway so everything else is irrelevant.

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Post by RDW on Tue 01 Oct 2019, 2:40 pm

But surely Japan not getting a BP against Samoa would mean we don't have to beat them with a BP, assuming they don't get a LBP?

That's a completely different mindset and gameplan compared to needing a BP win!

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Post by tigertattie on Tue 01 Oct 2019, 2:46 pm

RDW wrote:But surely Japan not getting a BP against Samoa would mean we don't have to beat them with a BP, assuming they don't get a LBP?

That's a completely different mindset and gameplan compared to needing a BP win!

If we get the BP win over Russia and Japan do not get a BP but win against Samoa then yes, we would only need to beat japan to progress.
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Post by RDW on Tue 01 Oct 2019, 2:50 pm

That's what I was meaning - you've always been the voice of reason tattie, unlike Jimbo!

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