Scotland WC Chat - Part Deux

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 24 Sep 2019, 10:09 am

RDW wrote:FORWARDS (23)

John Barclay (Edinburgh) – 71 caps; Rugby World Cup 2007 and 2011
Simon Berghan (Edinburgh) – 19 caps
Jamie Bhatti (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps
Magnus Bradbury (Edinburgh) – 7 caps
Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 42 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Allan Dell (Edinburgh) – 22 caps
Matt Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 3 caps
Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 19 caps
Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh) – 33 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Gary Graham (Newcastle Falcons) – 2 caps
Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 51 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Stuart McInally (Edinburgh) – 27 caps
Willem Nel (Edinburgh) – 29 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Gordon Reid (London Irish) – 34 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Jamie Ritchie (Edinburgh) – 10 caps
Sam Skinner (Exeter Chiefs) – 5 caps
Grant Stewart (Glasgow Warriors) – uncapped
Josh Strauss (Sale Sharks) – 22 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Blade Thomson (Scarlets) – uncapped
Ben Toolis (Edinburgh) – 18 caps
George Turner (Glasgow Warriors) – 5 caps
Hamish Watson (Edinburgh) – 25 caps
Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 43 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015

BACKS (19)

Darcy Graham (Edinburgh) – 4 caps
Nick Grigg (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
Chris Harris (Newcastle Falcons) – 8 caps
Adam Hastings (Glasgow Warriors) – 11 caps
Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) – 67 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
George Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 4 caps
Pete Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 41 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Rory Hutchinson (Northampton Saints) – uncapped
Huw Jones (Glasgow Warriors) – 21 caps
Sam Johnson (Glasgow Warriors) – 4 caps
Blair Kinghorn (Edinburgh) – 11 caps
Greig Laidlaw (Clermont Auvergne) – 71 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Sean Maitland (Saracens) – 40 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Byron McGuigan (Sale Sharks) – 8 caps
Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) – 24 caps
Henry Pyrgos (Edinburgh) – 27 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Finn Russell (Racing 92) – 44 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 50 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Duncan Taylor (Saracens) – 21 caps



World Cup Warmups

France V Scotland
Scotland V France
Georgia V Scotland
Scotland V Georgia

World Cup Fixtures

Ireland v Scotland
International Stadium Yokohama, Yokohama
Sunday 22nd September 2019
Kick Off: 8:45am

Scotland v Samoa
Kobe Misaki Stadium, Kobe
Monday 30th September 2019
Kick Off: 11:15am

Scotland v Russia
Shizuoka Stadium Ecopa, Shizuoka
Wednesday 9th October 2019
Kick Off: 8:15am

Japan v Scotland
International Stadium Yokohama, Yokohama
Sunday 13th October 2019
Kick Off: 11:45am

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Post by jimbopip on Tue 24 Sep 2019, 10:25 am


The Aldi price injury really bad news. A sickener for him and a huge blow to the squad's morale I would imagine.

Either Toonie continues with Frodo at 9 and the Fastest 9 In The World for the last 5 minutes OR the whole squad decide, "Well lads, we're Friar Tucked here so let's just give it a lash."

For Samoa
(1) pick the gnarliest, punchiest pack we have
(2) pick the fastest, most aggressive in your face backs we have.

1. Dell Shrek
2. Brown Rambo
3. Ragnar Nel
4. Cummings
5. Toolis GG. I noticed someone saying Toolis and Cummings don't complement each other, let's not overcomplicate matters; Jonny tackles himself to a standstill but doesn't impose himself around the park, GG tries to smash it up but doesn't make enough yards. So lets put in two very mobile youngsters and tell them, in the words of Lawrence Taylor to "have some fun, like a pack of junkyard dogs!"
6. Bradbury
7. Mabawsa
8. Replicant Batman to bench; there may be a Samoan forward who hasn't been "wound up" sufficiently by the hour mark.

9. Wee George Let's go all in: if we believe we're on the Fastest Tram In The World then get a driver who's not chronically risk averse. Frodo has to bench
10. DancerHaircut. Tom English was saying that SJ doesn't read Dancer's lines of running, blaming it on his RL background. I think the game plan was to bypass the 12 channel. We need the ball in SJ's mitts and him taking it to the line to create space outside. We also need a back up 10 in case Dancer and Toonie are not talking.
11. D'arcy
12. SJ
13. Hardest Working Defender he has looked competent every time he has come on. deserves his chance.
14. King Blarehorn. Fecc it, he's fast and might make something happen.
15. Hogg. With instructions to ram it up them every time they kick to him.
Taylor as 23, covers everywhere.
.




.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 24 Sep 2019, 10:30 am

I was going to copy the above post across from the old thread - but tbh on reading it I got so confused I had to curl up into a ball in tyhe corner and whimper.

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Post by reallybored on Tue 24 Sep 2019, 9:03 pm

I’d like to see

1 Dell
2 McInally
3 Nell
4 Cummings
5 Gray
6 Thomson
7 Ritchie
8 Bradbury

9 Horne
10 Russell
11 Maitland
12 Johnson
13 Taylor
14 Graham
15 Hogg

16 Brown
17 Reid
18 Fagerson
19 Gilchrist
20 Wilson
21 Laidlaw
22 Hastings
23 Kinghorn

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Post by George Carlin on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 6:08 am

LondonTiger wrote:I was going to copy the above post across from the old thread - but tbh on reading it I got so confused I had to curl up into a ball in tyhe corner and whimper.
Not to worry LT.

This is a Scottish thread, so its contents are largely a mystery wrapped in a conundrum, stamped with an impenetrable nickname and then marinated in a 2003 Cote de Morningside.
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Post by George Carlin on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 6:09 am

I have to say that I am not as down as everyone else seems to be about Price.

Forget about the tournament, we aren't going to win it.

We have a handful of games left to give some youngfellers some big event experience. Am thrilled to see the MicroHorne on the field.
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Post by NeilyBroon on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 6:47 am

So reading an interview with maitland, he admits they were flinging it about too much but says the focus now has to be on their kicking. picard

Talk about missing the problem!

If Toonie hasn't told them they just need to hold on to the ball for longer and be patient that's not just ridiculous but absolutely mental. If we kick to Samoa or Japan they'll happily just run it back at us. I don't know whether to think (or hope) this is just gamesmanship and they are actually focusing on ball retention or whether they are going for a tactic that really didnt help them against Ireland. Granted they'd probably still manage to get past samoa and maybe Japan but if we make the quarter vs NZ we'll be facing a record score if we take the same approach.

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Post by George Carlin on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 9:23 am

I just don't understand what's difficult about putting in place agreed shouts to put in place a well organised kick chase.

It's not rocket salad, Brian.
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Post by EST on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 10:02 am

Nothing coming out of the camp is reassuring me, the rugby pod had an interview with Toonie where he said part of our game put Ireland under pressure? He also said that the game plan involves attacking, kicking and defending......

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Post by jimbopip on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 10:34 am

So, in Russia's first two games there could/should have been three red cards shown to their opponents. Shocked

What's the chances the officials overcompensate and give a red in their next match? Who are they playing next? Doh

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Post by RDW on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 10:56 am

A high chance Jimob, given World Rugby has publicly criticised the refereeing so far!

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Post by Tramptastic on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 12:02 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:So reading an interview with maitland, he admits they were flinging it about too much but says the focus now has to be on their kicking. picard

Talk about missing the problem!

If Toonie hasn't told them they just need to hold on to the ball for longer and be patient that's not just ridiculous but absolutely mental. If we kick to Samoa or Japan they'll happily just run it back at us. I don't know whether to think (or hope) this is just gamesmanship and they are actually focusing on ball retention or whether they are going for a tactic that really didnt help them against Ireland. Granted they'd probably still manage to get past samoa and maybe Japan but if we make the quarter vs NZ we'll be facing a record score if we take the same approach.


I think Maitland was meaning that initial 20 minutes where, with the Irish defence blitzing so hard Russell et al should have said "fair enough, but we're going to punish that strategy by chipping the ball over the onrushing defence or grubbering it through". Smarter kicking is what he means not just the loose passing game we gave them. This should have been identified in the 1st couple of attacking phases, not 70 minutes in.

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Post by LordDowlais on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 1:37 pm

It's all down to the game against Samoa for your guys now. That could be a defining game for Scottish rugby.

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Post by RDW on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 2:49 pm

For all the complaints we had about our performance against Ireland I'm not any more nervous than I was before the tournament. We should beat Samoa and I think we will - it will definitely be tough but we should be OK. Especially after the rocket we would have had after Ireland!

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Post by 123456789. on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 4:00 pm

My frustration does not spill over into nerves. I have not been overly impressed by Japan or Samoa. If either had blown away Russia I'm be incredibly nervous. However I see no reason why this bland, non-performance is any different from the one we saw against Wales in 2018 for example. We were dreadful on that day and then managed to beat England and France in consecutive weeks. The big occasion flop against a decent team is written into the DNA of Scottish professional rugby. I can think of about five occasions where our teams have needed to play above the sum of their parts to win and actually done it. Worryingly I can think of far more where they have gone into their shells. We should be fine in this world cup (fine being qualifying for the world cup), but there reaches a point where we have to consider if 'fine' is good enough.
We are reaching the 30th anniversary of the last time Scotland won the Grand Slam, twenty-one years since we won the Five/Six-Nations and 28 years since we reached the semi-finals of the World Cup. As one of World Rugby's big nations, of which we undoubtedly still belong, there has to be a serious and open conversation as to how we drive the game to long term stability and driving up what it means to perform adequately. That goes well beyond Townsend's remit.
However, it's hard to get past the view that the main issues in the here and now are coaching related. If we are good enough to come back from 38 points against England then we should not be losing like we have in the past couple of months to Ireland and France. I think if we qualify the group then he should be in last chance saloon, if we get further than that then I suppose we have to accept that there is method in his madness and try to enjoy the ride, if we're out before then he has to be out.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 6:01 pm

RDW wrote:For all the complaints we had about our performance against Ireland I'm not any more nervous than I was before the tournament. We should beat Samoa and I think we will - it will definitely be tough but we should be OK. Especially after the rocket we would have had after Ireland!

We will lose if we repeat the Ireland performance, so there will need to be serious improvements in every aspect of play.

Toonie team selection will be fascinating.

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Post by RDW on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 8:42 pm

Any thoughts of Ben vellacot being an injury call up if we lose another 9 are over before they began - he's just had surgery!

Has got me thinking though - who else could we call up? Sean Kennedy? Charlie Shiel?? Nathan Fowles???

Rory Lawson is out in Japan - I'd probably rather him!

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Post by BigGee on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 8:56 pm

That would be a grim scenario

Charlie Sheil would be my guess, as the next best of the bunch, unless that Finlay Chrisie would come over from NZ. Remember when we all got excited when he added a Saltire to his Instagram profile. Seems to have gone a bit quieter since then unfortunately, was he plsying in Super Rugby this year?

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Post by tigertattie on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 8:57 pm

RDW wrote:Any thoughts of Ben vellacot being an injury call up if we lose another 9 are over before they began - he's just had surgery!

Has got me thinking though - who else could we call up? Sean Kennedy? Charlie Shiel?? Nathan Fowles???

Rory Lawson is out in Japan - I'd probably rather him!

Surely after Pyrgos it’s Sam H C that’s next in line?
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Post by RDW on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 9:04 pm

He's ruled himself out to secure his club future.

I suspect if we lose another we'll call a non-9 up and stick with two for the rest of the tournament.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Thu 26 Sep 2019, 6:50 am

I think nothing but a comprehensive win against samoa is acceptable. Im not talking an utter pasting, I'd be happy if we conceded one try and won by one or two. If we back that up with a performance against Russia and a clinical win against Japan (again, same scenario as Samoa) I'd feel somewhat better. It's not much to ask for three decent, comprehensive performances against tier two opposition. Fail that, even if we scrape through and give NZ a confidence boosting cricket score, then in my opinion that's beyond the last chance saloon and out on their erses in the dirt because contrary to what some non-scots say on the forum (and understandably so), we're better than that.
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Post by alive555 on Thu 26 Sep 2019, 7:17 am

Spot on

Samoa and japan by 20 or more

Win qf or lose by less tha 10

Otherwise change of coach
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Post by funnyExiledScot on Thu 26 Sep 2019, 11:25 pm

tigertattie wrote:
RDW wrote:Any thoughts of Ben vellacot being an injury call up if we lose another 9 are over before they began - he's just had surgery!

Has got me thinking though - who else could we call up? Sean Kennedy? Charlie Shiel?? Nathan Fowles???

Rory Lawson is out in Japan - I'd probably rather him!

Surely after Pyrgos it’s Sam H C that’s next in line?

I'd go with Mike Blair. Save the SRU the air fare plus his service will still be infinitely faster than Laidlaw.

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Post by bsando on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 12:19 pm

Yeah Dobie is benching for Glasgow against Cheetahs so will be interesting to see how he gets on. Looks like he has potential, very young though.

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 1:33 pm

Steele at London Irish could be asked. Not an inspiring choice but better than Fowles or Kennedy and more experienced than Dobby.

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Post by 123456789. on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 4:15 pm

Sam Hidalgo-Clyne is at Racing for the period of the world cup only. Accepting an offer to sit on the bench for us will do him no favours, nor probably Scotland, in the long term. He'll be hoping to suitably impress at Racing to gain a contract. That may well work well for us, especially if he builds up a partnership with Russell. I see a battle between him, Price and Horne as the narrative for the next four years at scrum-half. Stealing the opportunity for him to rebuild his career so we can force our way through Samoa and Japan, in the unlikely scenario of him being needed to play ultimately so Townsend can restore his reputation would ultimately damage Scotland. Perhaps, if both, god forbid, are injured he is the way to go.
The other suggestion is Dobie, I would advise against that, he is a young lad and thrusting him in against Japan in what is likely to be their biggest game, would be unwise and even worse against New Zealand. I would stick with what we have. In fact if a scrum-half gets injured I'd call up a centre. If catastrophe strikes and then bring up whoever is next off the rank on the basis they'd likely to be playing.

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Post by bsando on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 4:29 pm

It would be crazy if both Laidlaw and Horne got injured in next couple of games.

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Post by 123456789. on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 5:02 pm

bsando wrote:It would be crazy if both Laidlaw and Horne got injured in next couple of games.

It would fit the narrative of the tournament so far.

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Post by alive555 on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 7:29 pm

Sean lamont can do a job at scrum half. He gets my vote
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Post by NeilyBroon on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 11:18 pm

Guys there is only one true replacement.

Richie V.
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Post by tigertattie on Fri 27 Sep 2019, 11:42 pm

What I’m most looking forward to (and possibly it’s the only thing I’m looking forward to) is of Horne jnr gets rolled out against a tiring Samoan team.

Either he’s brought on as we’re well in front or brought on to up the tempo to get us a win. It is possible that with 10 to go we’re only slightly ahead (or behind) so laidlaw stays in for the full. If that happens though then wee George will surely start again the Russians?

Will be great to see how he goes in a proper competitive test match.

I haven’t written this World Cup off yet, but I’m starting to think this will be invaluable experience for the younger guys and hopefully it can be a springboard for the next World Cup.
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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 1:17 am

Ah now, don’t be writing off the World Cup just yet. After all, I’ve still got a good bit of exploring of Kyoto and a trip over to Kobe still to come!

If any of you are in any doubt, Japan is a wonderful country full of wonderful people (and right now what seems to be around 90% of the population of Ireland!) and the food is amazing!

In fact as I was sat relaxing in my private onsen (hot spring bath) in my hotel room in Hakone the other night, drinking some sake, I almost managed to forget about the savage pumping at the hands of the Irish. Bliss.

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Post by BigGee on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 7:04 am

Teams out and the axe had been welded as predicted.

Graham in for Seymour

Harris for Taylor

Completely new back row of Bradbury, Ritchie and Thompson

Horne G, Taylor and Wildkn kn the bench along with Fagerson Z

Barclay completely dropped.

Brutal but necessary and hopefully the message has got through!

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Post by RDW on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 7:37 am

I pretty much called it except Cummings not starting!

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Post by BigGee on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 7:44 am

Yes Cummings probably unlucky not to start, but he may get there yet by the Japan game.

Hopefully, JG will be more up to match speed this week but snothef gsme like last weekend and he could be warming the pine as well!

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Post by RDW on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 7:46 am

On the plus side that looks a much better balanced team, with big carriers and threats out wide.

Feeling more confident (which doesn't sit well!)

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 8:33 am

Well so far japan don't look like upsetting Ireland which is good news for us.

Here's hoping for a major bounce back from the players on Monday, my patience at this point is very thin!
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Post by RDW on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 8:48 am

They're looking dangerous to me!

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 8:58 am

Aye I was going to say they've come back into the game a bit, they're certainly making a better account of themselves than Scotland did (not hard). I reckon 2nd half ireland will turn the screw. Japan look threatening when they're allowed to play but Ireland generally haven't been allowing that.
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Post by RDW on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 9:00 am

Ireland scrambling well - some of these chances could easily have gone to Japan.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 9:05 am

If they play like that against us we could very well lose tbf. Irelands defence is watertight. Ours is about as leaky as the current government.
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Post by tigertattie on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 9:38 am

Do I want Japan to win this?
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Post by RDW on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 9:41 am

If they win it would mean we could beat them yet still go out, so no!

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Post by robbo277 on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 9:43 am

If Japan win and Ireland get a bonus point it becomes an issue for Scotland, who didn't get the bonus point against Ireland.

Japan will be on 9 points and Ireland will be on 6.

Scotland would need to beat Japan and most likely to deny them a bonus point, assuming they get the same number of points against Samoa.

If Ireland win this is just becomes a straight shoot out between Japan and Scotland, assuming they both beat Samoa.

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Post by tigertattie on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 9:48 am

RDW wrote:If they win it would mean we could beat them yet still go out, so no!

Yeah but I like Japan

And on this we won’t beat them anyway.

So Japan to top the group and Ireland 2nd

We get to go home and find a competent coach who can have more than one plan

Japan go on to face SA in the QF where it’s groundhog day for them and Japan get to the semi
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Post by NeilyBroon on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 9:49 am

From a rugby fan prospective i would love japan to win. From a scotland fan perspective, it gets toonie out quicker.
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Post by NeilyBroon on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 9:58 am

Agree with tiger. Rugby would be the biggest loser if we scrape through. Japan have given Ireland a game. We gave them a training ground.

The benefit is we'll hopefully get a new coach though no doubt toonie will blame the upset rather than our p*ss poor performance.
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Post by RDW on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 10:03 am

In the plus side Edinburgh and Glasgow will get their players back early!

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Post by bsando on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 10:07 am

So we need Japan to deny the bonus point to Ireland

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Post by tigertattie on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 10:07 am

What about a draw???
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