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Post by TightHEAD on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 10:35 am

Thoughts on how ITV are doing?

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Post by TightHEAD on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 10:45 am

Why would you sub BOD for Maggie?
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Post by LondonTiger on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 10:54 am

TightHEAD wrote:Thoughts on how ITV are doing?


Cannot say. I do not watch the in studio segments. They are relying on host broadcaster pictures (which at time is rubbish as they fail to realise ball is in play and they are looking at something else) and have borrowed commentators.

Mind you they have covered every WC since 91 the same way.

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Post by Heaf on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 11:24 am

Missed the kick off for one match which wasn't great ...

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Post by No9 on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 12:29 pm

Better ITV than pay per view...

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 12:49 pm

BTa coverage is excellent.

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Post by LondonTiger on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 1:04 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:BTa coverage is excellent.
BTa?

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 1:20 pm

Should have been BT's.

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Post by LondonTiger on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 2:21 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Should have been BT's.

I did not realise BT had WC coverage. 


As I write that I realise what you probably mean. You prefer the coverage BT have for Premiership to ITVs WC coverage?

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 2:40 pm

Yeah. It was a general comment on standard of the show. BT Sky BBC ITV and then channel 4 in my list.

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Post by miaow on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 2:43 pm

BT's budget and scope is incomparable to ITV's. Same for BBC and Sky.

Think ITV are doing a good job. Not really watching the pundit segments, and it was a touch cringey listening to Danielle Waterman in the Tonga v Arg game this morning, as her experience just isn't comparable, which is definitely the emperor's new clothes moment in sports broadcasting at the moment. But who cares, pundits/commentators are for kids and casual fans.

Don't think there's been anything parrticularly bad from ITV. Done a decent job, and aside from the odd blowhard like Alfie, their student guests are all recently retired, eloquent, and informative. Not much to criticise.

Oh, and there's no Paloma Faith.

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Post by LondonTiger on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 6:17 pm

Yeah, but you cannot gain credit for not inflicting something on us this time around. The pain is still there from when they used her. 

That is like praising Larry Nasser for not abusing anyone. Or Josef Fritzl for remembering his kids birthdays.

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Post by miaow on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 6:42 pm

"THE WWWUUUURRRLLLLDD IN YOOOONNNEEUHUHUHUHUHUHUHHHOOONNNN"

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Post by TightHEAD on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 11:05 am

SCW is a wonderful pundit, always wanting to butt in when someone else is talking.
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Post by Irish Londoner on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 12:05 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Should have been BT's.
I think the studio segments are being filmed in the BT studio where they do "Rugby Tonight", nearly everyone who does the BT coverage is on ITV, except Austin Healey who's been left with the Premiership Cup.

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Post by No9 on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 12:51 pm

Irish Londoner wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Should have been BT's.
I think the studio segments are being filmed in the BT studio where they do "Rugby Tonight", nearly everyone who does the BT coverage is on ITV, except Austin Healey who's been left with the Premiership Cup.
Well there's one major positive.....  Yahoo

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Post by No9 on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 12:55 pm

I do think the BT Rugby Tonight format of walking through plays is now over kill... It works on Rugby Tonight as you have the club fans there, but in this format its jut cringe worthy. 

Even Scrum V has tried to do it, in their "boot room", and its all a bit pathetic IMO.

It just a cheap way of filling air time. They'd be better filling it with actual footage analysis.

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Post by miaow on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 1:55 pm

Everything's cheapened and dumbed down these days. Not sure if that's true, r just a sign I'm getting older...

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 2:02 pm

miaow wrote:Everything's cheapened and dumbed down these days. Not sure if that's true, r just a sign I'm getting older...

Probably both. 

Thing is the vast majority of the people watching have only a very passing knowledge of the game. Most posters know a lot about the game. Our opinions may differ (and boy we are opinionated) but we do know the game. The average viewer needs to be told what they are seeing much of the time.

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Post by miaow on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 2:10 pm

I think good point. Forgetting that rugby is much, much less of a fringe sport nowadays than when I was younger. 2003 changed a lot in how it was broadcast in Britain.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 2:14 pm

miaow wrote:I think good point. Forgetting that rugby is much, much less of a fringe sport nowadays than when I was younger. 2003 changed a lot in how it was broadcast in Britain.

Viewing figures, outside of 6Ns and RWCs, still very low. 

TBH I listen to some of the stuff coming out of peoples mouths when I am at a game and they usually know the laws no better than you typical Aussie player Very Happy

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 4:38 pm

They do tend to dumb down in world cups especially. Tbf there are places particularly the scrums where some commentators flounder completely and it doesn't help the general fan. Healy used to be terrible with a few cracks of they bore me so I dont bother. Terrible for a paid commentator. He has got better/told to do his homework.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 4:41 pm

Irish Londoner wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Should have been BT's.
I think the studio segments are being filmed in the BT studio where they do "Rugby Tonight", nearly everyone who does the BT coverage is on ITV, except Austin Healey who's been left with the Premiership Cup.

Deplorably incestuous.

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Post by No9 on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 11:27 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
miaow wrote:I think good point. Forgetting that rugby is much, much less of a fringe sport nowadays than when I was younger. 2003 changed a lot in how it was broadcast in Britain.

Viewing figures, outside of 6Ns and RWCs, still very low. 

TBH I listen to some of the stuff coming out of peoples mouths when I am at a game and they usually know the laws no better than you typical Aussie player Very Happy

But pay per view has a lot to do with that, and it will get worse, when the 6 nations go PPV, even less will get to experience and watch rugby. PPV is short term. Rugby (and I hate football) is NOT football. It will never get the world fan base football has so it should protect and develop the base it has, not sell out for the quick buck.

Personally, I’ve been on record of how much I object to the Pro14 going PPV, and I saw very few games last season, whereas seasons before I watched most of the Pro14 (Pro12 before that, and the Rabbo direct before that, etc). Last season, I only saw the games covered by S4C and odd game on FreeSports. I did go to the Liberty as and when I could, but work and family commitments limited that, but I still paid my season ticket. This season, I’ve not even bought that, as work is getting tougher to get to the games,

So, I’m not expecting to get to see much rugby, this season, apart from RWC and 6 nations. And that’s from an avid rugby fan and ex player of over 50 years.

Said before, will say again.... PPV ruins sport long term and will be the killer of rugby. I’m expecting a backlash for this, but I’m not going to derail the topic by arguing back, as I’ve made my point on this before.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 01 Oct 2019, 12:49 am

Backlash?

You get a thumbs up from me.  OK
Virtually feels like that's me typing that.  Almost brings a nostalgic tear to the eye.

I too watch less and less.  I'm not a sports junkie, I am or was a rugby junkie.  But PPV sports platforms and 'packages' don't interest me.  Niggly, needless, life too busy doing other things.  For people interested/obsessed with sports in general, and I understand there are plenty in that bracket of course, the eternal shifts and movements from operators to packages etc.... well, perhaps it's part of the excitement.  
Good luck to them.  I hear posters here debate which PPV networks have the best coverage, experts etc.  So the PPV sporting culture is a culture in itself regardless of the sports watched.

I'd still enjoy sitting down on a Friday night to a good - or bad - Pro14 game but I won't be chasing it or any other rugby events into the PPV world.  I just won't.  Life is too short.  I'll find other things to do.  Rugby will drift away inevitably from my life if it all goes PPV.  I probably have even got to the point where I know I won't miss it that much - which is sad because it really is the only spectator sport I truly love.  But on the other hand, I'm okay with it too.  The sport is moving on and becoming the plaything of newer generations.  They'll make it adapt to their preferred lifestyles.

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Post by Cyril on Tue 01 Oct 2019, 1:20 am

PPV always makes me think of boxing ie a one-off payment for a ‘game’. Never been a fan of that. I’m quite happy to subscribe to a sports channel for a season if it shows what I want.

The Beeb (and ITV or whatever) need to bid better or they will be superseded. Protection of sports is coming to an end.

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Post by The Great Aukster on Tue 01 Oct 2019, 1:30 pm

Years ago PPV almost killed Boxing and certainly ruined Showjumping - but now not so sure? Pay TV is far more affordable with the best shows and sports than it has ever been. especially with more competition from net-based broadcasters hunting for subscribers. Sports like Volleyball, Icehockey and GAA have been popularised on Pay TV platforms.

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Post by No9 on Tue 01 Oct 2019, 2:02 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:Years ago PPV almost killed Boxing and certainly ruined Showjumping - but now not so sure? Pay TV is far more affordable with the best shows and sports than it has ever been. especially with more competition from net-based broadcasters hunting for subscribers. Sports like Volleyball, Icehockey and GAA have been popularised on Pay TV platforms.

Not so sure. Its not too bad if you subscribe to one (or maybe even two if you have a package), but if you enjoy or like me, only really interested in Rugby and you have different broadcasters winning different tournaments or tours, then you find it gets very expensive to subscribe to all of them to follow Rugby. 

If the IRB did an exclusive deal where all rugby would be on one broadcaster or two at the most, maybe it would be justified, but with the vast number it gets silly. Sky for Lions tours and any AI/Tuyr game against England or Ireland (as it currently stands), BT for European Rugby, Premiership or some Tours, Premier for Pro14, probably Amazon later on for 6 Nations, etc, etc... 

And to think there was an uproar with the cost of the BBC licence, yet, people will pay more than the annual cost of the licence for these subscription services per month...

Unbelievable..

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 01 Oct 2019, 2:05 pm

No9 wrote:


And to think there was an uproar with the cost of the BBC licence, yet, people will pay more than the annual cost of the licence for these subscription services per month...

Unbelievable..

£154.50 for the licence fee. 

Would love to see who pays more than that per month for subscription channels (excluding porn - actually including porn as what idiots buy adult subscription channels)

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Post by LordDowlais on Tue 01 Oct 2019, 2:33 pm

I have been banging this drum for a while on here, but I get shot down and red barred by the usual suspects, but putting something, that was treading water at best on PPV in Wales was never a good idea. The Pro14/Celtic League/ Rabbo or what ever name it has been under was never that popular in Wales, but in saying that, it was starting to gain momentum.

Now, and it gives me no pleasure to say this, it is all but dead in Wales, apart from the strongholds, Cardiff(certain areas), Swansea, Newport and Llanelli. Only the die hard fans of the regions are following it. Where as, when it was on the BBC, it was the topic of everybody's rugby conversation.

The thing is, in Wales, lots of people pay to go and watch their local team, the Welsh prem has a decent enough following seeing at it is only semi-pro. But all these people used to then watch the regions on the tele in the clubhouse, or at home with a glass of wine. This is no more, Why ? Because nobody wants to pay an extra £12 per month to watch the Pro14 on Premier sports.

Like No9 has already alluded to, the amount of subscriptions you have to make to watch the regions play in all competitions is extortionate. BT Sports is £40-50 per month, Premier Sports is £12 per month, that is £12.50 a week to watch the regions in all competitions.

You are asking people to pay for these extra channels after forking out a small fortune to watch their local sides as well. OK, I know I will have the regulars I argue with over this trying to convince all that it is a good deal, when in reality, it isn't.

Putting the 6N on PPV will be the death knell. The pubs that show the games would have to pay a fortune, and I just do not think people would pay it. In saying that, I think all Wales home games in the 6N are protected as it is our national sport. But the AI's could be snapped up.

Unfortunately rugby union is not popular enough to be put on PPV tele and making it privvy to the people who are willing to pay to watch it, will not help the game long term no matter how you try and spin it. PPV is short term gain, for long term pain.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 01 Oct 2019, 2:38 pm

I actually agree ppv rugby would die quickly. Wales games arent protected however.

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Post by LordDowlais on Tue 01 Oct 2019, 2:58 pm

And as if by magic, a red bar, pathetic, if you do not agree, say why.

Also, I am sure the Wales home games in the 6N are protected.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 01 Oct 2019, 3:00 pm

Well you cant blame me for the red bar as I use the mobile app which doesn't have it! They arent protected. Only rugby which is is the world cup final.

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Post by BamBam on Tue 01 Oct 2019, 3:02 pm

Its been discussed before, but this is the current protected list. Source is the 2nd link on google if you search for "protected tv sports uk", its a download so can't link directly

Upcoming changes are likely to be to add women's sport to one of the lists

Group A: full live coverage protected
• The Olympic Games
• The FIFA World Cup Finals Tournament
• The European Football Championship Finals Tournament
• The FA Cup Final
• The Scottish FA Cup Final (in Scotland)
• The Grand National
• The Derby
• The Wimbledon Tennis Finals
• The Rugby League Challenge Cup Final
• The Rugby World Cup Final

Group B: secondary coverage protected
• Cricket Test matches played in England
• Non-Finals play in the Wimbledon Tournament
• All other matches in the Rugby World Cup Finals
• Six Nations Rugby matches involving home countries
• The Commonwealth Games
• The World Athletics Championship
• The Cricket World Cup - the final, semi-finals and matches
involving home nations' teams
• The Ryder Cup
• The Open Golf Championship

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 01 Oct 2019, 3:08 pm

Secondary Protection means that highlights must be made available to FTA.

The myth about Wales 6Ns games has been discussed before, with the relevant documents from the relevant Government Body have been linked to a relevant passages printed and highlighted. More than once Very Happy

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Post by BamBam on Tue 01 Oct 2019, 3:15 pm

And it was LD who made the statement that time too

I blame the government report that recommended it be stripped down to one list for live coverage only rather than A and B categories, and had Wales 6N matches included. Although that report was from 2009 Laugh

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Post by No9 on Tue 01 Oct 2019, 4:04 pm

LD was sort of right... The 6 Nations has never been protected by the statute. However, the WRU did make a commitment to the Welsh public that ALL of the Welsh games would always be free to air. It was the time that Sky was bidding for the 6 Nations and England sold out to them, having a bigger share than other nations of the revenue. WRU told them where to go and commited to keeping Wales games on free to air, and I believe Scotland and Ireland backed the WRU. It meant that you had a season (or maybe two) of the 6 Nations (England games only) on Sky. But due to agreement, it meant that any game England played away Sky didnt have, and they soon pulled out of that.

WRU maintained their commitment to 6 Nations (and AI) remaining on free to air right up to recently (this year, maybe last), when they have now agreed with other 6 Nations nations to sell the family silver. So, the end of the 6 Nations is not far away (IMO). OK it will take a few years, but as kids dont get to see it, then their aspiration to play rugby will fade, and alas, so will the 6 Nations (with the RWC shortly following).

In my opinion.... a very short term view, for a sport that is, not a major world sport. Very popular, but not major enough to survive on PPV.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 01 Oct 2019, 4:19 pm

Are people really meaning ppv? Not heard of this plan and it'd be suicide. Football hasn't even gone down that route.

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 10:34 am

Anyone else find Maggie a bit over the top, yes we get it you played a game of rugby before!

Rather listen to Care and Dallaglio.
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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 10:38 am

Maggie comparing herself to Kolbe!!!!!!

Too many people have been blowing smoke up her ...
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 10:41 am

Yeah. Imagine her saying hes the same height as her. Shes just silly.

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 10:45 am

Who cares shes the same height, what does that bring to the studio discussion?

Next she'll be giving us details of how she caught a ball from a pass.
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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 10:45 am

Who cares shes the same height, what does that bring to the studio discussion?

Next she'll be giving us details of how she caught a ball from a pass.
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Post by Poorfour on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 12:32 pm

It's actually quite a useful point of comparison. It can be hard to tell the size of players in play, but seeing her alongside the likes of Dayglo puts into context how small Kolbe is by modern standards.
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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 12:49 pm

picard
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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 1:14 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Are people really meaning ppv? Not heard of this plan and it'd be suicide. Football hasn't even gone down that route.

Different definition of PPV I suspect. To you (and the broadcasting industry) it means paying per event/match. Others are expanding it to include a subscription.

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 1:20 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Anyone else find Maggie a bit over the top, yes we get it you played a game of rugby before!

Rather listen to Care and Dallaglio.

Disagree 100%.

Dallaglio never has anything useful to say.
Care is a bit meh.
Alphonsi is able to explain things in a way that the bulk of the viewers can understand. I would also like to point out that I once observed her giving a coaching session to an academy team on the breakdown that was better than any coaching session I have ever seen (including Andy Farrell on defence and a Graham Rowntree scrum session). It helps that she was an expert at this but she could get the information across in a way the lads understood. My favourite bit was when she offered up two tickets to a 6Ns game at Twickenham (mens) for the first person who could clear he off the ball. None managed it before the tackled player would have been pinged for holding on - despite one of the lads having captained England U20s since.

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 1:23 pm

Poorfour wrote:It's actually quite a useful point of comparison. It can be hard to tell the size of players in play, but seeing her alongside the likes of Dayglo puts into context how small Kolbe is by modern standards.

Agreed.

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 1:28 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Anyone else find Maggie a bit over the top, yes we get it you played a game of rugby before!

Rather listen to Care and Dallaglio.

Disagree 100%.

Dallaglio never has anything useful to say.
Care is a bit meh.
Alphonsi is able to explain things in a way that the bulk of the viewers can understand. I would also like to point out that I once observed her giving a coaching session to an academy team on the breakdown that was better than any coaching session I have ever seen (including Andy Farrell on defence and a Graham Rowntree scrum session). It helps that she was an expert at this but she could get the information across in a way the lads understood. My favourite bit was when she offered up two tickets to a 6Ns game at Twickenham (mens) for the first person who could clear he off the ball. None managed it before the tackled player would have been pinged for holding on - despite one of the lads having captained England U20s since.

I Disagree 100%.
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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 1:46 pm

And you are entitled to your opinion, even when it is wrong. 

Personally I would rather listen to someone who talks sense and actually knows the laws, rather than a blowhard like Dayglo who has never known the laws and thinks being a good bloke is all you need.

LondonTiger
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