Rugby World Cup and delayed games.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 29 Sep 2019, 9:26 pm

First topic message reminder :

Can any one recall a time in the history of the Rugby World Cup when a schedule game had to be called off, and rescheduled and what effect  did that rescheduled game have on the world cup? They say the weather might turn nasty before the next round gets under way. 




Discuss.

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Post by miaow on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 4:11 am

Glad I set an alarm for this.

Italy knocked out of the RWC on a technicality as their game v NZ is cancelled. Absolutely shameful. Terrible, terrible, terrible.

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Post by miaow on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 4:12 am

No update on the Japan - Scotland game but you have to assume that's off as well, they're just hedging their bets for now and it'll come out soon enough.

Italy are knocked out...can't believe it. Cannot believe it. This is farcical, unfortunately. Shame, damn shame. Ultimately this has seriously devalued the tournament. Have to feel for the Japanese as you'd imagine, culturally, they'll be totally devastated, but just from an outside perspective, you surely have to look in to alternatives - including delaying the tournament. Or literally going and playing a game in Hong Kong or something.

Presumably a major issue was the number of games they'd have to move/delay/rearrange. Australia v Georgia going ahead, as is Ireland and Samoa. I mean...wow...start your conspiracy theories here...just cannot believe it. Unreal.

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Post by miaow on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 4:12 am

Anyway, back to bed. Gutted. It's ruined the tournament - hopefully not totally, but it has.

Now have to hope the desctruction is minimal, and that people stay safe. More important things than rugby, but wow. Such a shame.

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Post by eirebilly on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 5:20 am

Surely games can simply not be cancelled whilst others go ahead. The organisers must be able to arrange double headed games at grounds where other games are set to proceed?
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Post by Taylorman on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 5:28 am

Good idea. The tickets sold would be an issue...ie two stadiums sold out, one venue, assuming some would travel to watch. You’d have to clear out one lot but perhaps play it the day after? Still, better than not playing. They’d also want to restrict travel during the storm so there’d be that as well.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 5:29 am

Personally see this as a pretty good result for England. Shame Australia are due to play Friday rather than Sunday.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 5:54 am

eirebilly wrote:Surely games can simply not be cancelled whilst others go ahead. The organisers must be able to arrange double headed games at grounds where other games are set to proceed?
The organisers have said they need to treat all teams equally. The press conference hinted they could have rescheduled some matches (going against pre-tournament guidance) but not all, so they elected to do none.

Gilpin points out that Italy have been automatically ejected, even though they had a chance to qualify, which is the same fate Scotland face if their game has to be cancelled.


(There's some Japanese spoken here but the simultaneous translation isn't audible)

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Post by eirebilly on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 6:21 am

Surely treating all teams equally should mean providing all teams with every opportunity to play?
By playing double headed games at supposedly unaffected grounds would provide that opportunity, the fans would still get their money back and it would be to the benefit of every team to be given every opportunity to qualify.
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Post by Rugby Fan on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 6:31 am

eirebilly wrote:Surely treating all teams equally should mean providing all teams with every opportunity to play?
It's because they couldn't, that we are in this position now.

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Post by EnglishReign on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 7:15 am

Poor Italy. Played some good rugby this tournament. Likely would have lost but deserved the chance to face the haka and have a real go.

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 7:38 am

eirebilly wrote:Surely treating all teams equally should mean providing all teams with every opportunity to play?
By playing double headed games at supposedly unaffected grounds would provide that opportunity, the fans would still get their money back and it would be to the benefit of every team to be given every opportunity to qualify.

They tried to move the England France game, but the logistics (mainly hotel rooms) proved impossible. Suggestions that Scotland Japan will be played behind closed doors.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 8:04 am

An absolute shambles, the tournament and therefore the winners will forever be tainted by this.

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Post by Rinsure on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 8:11 am

Disappointing news to wake up to, but regardless of the tournament you have to consider the safety of everyone concerned - this is a bigger event in itself than just a rugby phenomenon. There is serious risk to people's lives, and sport needs to be viewed in that context.

That said... extra prep. time for England ahead of the Australia QF, gives time for those with reported knocks / sicknesses to recover and get fit.

Got to feel for Italy - had a slim chance to qualify, but now out on a technicality. Still, anyone predict that game as being a draw? Is this Italy's best ever result against New Zealand?

Leaves Scotland on a knife-edge...

But overall hoping that Japan emerges unscathed, and the RWC can pick up again in the wake of the typhoon.

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Post by Rinsure on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 8:13 am

Typhoon visualisation: https://www.windy.com/?2019-10-12-09,35.012,145.371,5


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Post by RDW on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 8:15 am

I hope the organisers don't play the 'act of God' card and deny ticket refunds!

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Post by LordDowlais on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 8:24 am

This is what happens when world rugby bend the knee to the SANZAR nations, why we play the world cup during the NH season is absolutely ridiculous. The WC should be played in July/August. But they will not, because they do not want to upset SANZAR.

Everybody knows it's Typhoon season in Japan this time of year. Every 4 years we have to mess our seasons around.


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Post by No9 on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 8:30 am

Soul Requiem wrote:An absolute shambles, the tournament and therefore the winners will forever be tainted by this.
furious ... WHY!!!!

Already we're getting the RWC devalued posts. Wake up will you... 

1. Safety of ALL (fans, Players, Officials, public) has to be the prime concern. 
2. Apart from Japan going through (and that game is still on at the moment), does anyone believe any other side would have progressed if the games hadn't been cancelled.
3. If Japan OR Scotland go through to face the All Blacks OR the SpringBoks, the likelihood of them going further is very low.


It is not as if the rules have just been made up, they have been there and defined from the beginning, not just for this RWC, but for previous. So going against the rules for some games and not others would cause issue, so I can fully understand why they are sticking to the rules.

I can see why they are delaying decision on the Japan v Scotland game, to avoid the calls of "foul" if cancelled. But, the above still stands.

It is STILL the RWC, and the winners will STILL be crowned World Champions and justifiably so. It does not devalue this tournament OR Japan's fantastic hosting of it so far.

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 8:32 am

LordDowlais wrote:This is what happens when world rugby bend the knee to the SANZAR nations, why we play the world cup during the NH season is absolutely ridiculous. The WC should be played in July/August. But they will not, because they do not want to upset SANZAR.

Everybody knows it's Typhoon season in Japan this time of year. Every 4 years we have to mess our seasons around.


Apparently July and August is also Typhoon season. Safest time would have been November to May according to one article I read.

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Post by No9 on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 8:32 am

RDW wrote:I hope the organisers don't play the 'act of God' card and deny ticket refunds!
On the clip, they clearly say tickets will be refunded.

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 8:35 am

Soul Requiem wrote:An absolute shambles, the tournament and therefore the winners will forever be tainted by this.

It casts a shadow over the tournament, but in no way will the win be tainted. 

I feel for Scottish fans if their game is called off, but their team's supine performance against Ireland was something within their control.

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Post by RDW on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 8:37 am

No9 wrote:
RDW wrote:I hope the organisers don't play the 'act of God' card and deny ticket refunds!
On the clip, they clearly say tickets will be refunded.

That's good to hear.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 8:42 am

LondonTiger wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:An absolute shambles, the tournament and therefore the winners will forever be tainted by this.

It casts a shadow over the tournament, but in no way will the win be tainted. 

I feel for Scottish fans if their game is called off, but their team's supine performance against Ireland was something within their control.

If either New Zealand or England win having only played 6 games then for me it will be tainted.

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Post by RDW on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 8:47 am

LondonTiger wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:An absolute shambles, the tournament and therefore the winners will forever be tainted by this.

It casts a shadow over the tournament, but in no way will the win be tainted. 

I feel for Scottish fans if their game is called off, but their team's supine performance against Ireland was something within their control.

We've heard this a lot as Scottish fans recently and it is really tenuous - people saying we deserve to go out because of the Ireland game and Japan deserve to go through because of what they've done (i'm not saying that's what you're implying, just linking what you've siad to what a lot of other people have said). That's completely forgetting that QF qualification is based on all the pool games not just one! You can't hit Scotland with that stick IMO.

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 9:01 am

Aye, not saying Scotland deserve to go out, just suggesting that the first game is not ignored in the post mortem should the last be cancelled.

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Post by The Oracle on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 9:02 am

No one deserves to go out in this way, regardless of performance in earlier games. Nightmare.
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Post by BamBam on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 9:06 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:An absolute shambles, the tournament and therefore the winners will forever be tainted by this.

It casts a shadow over the tournament, but in no way will the win be tainted. 

I feel for Scottish fans if their game is called off, but their team's supine performance against Ireland was something within their control.

If either New Zealand or England win having only played 6 games then for me it will be tainted.

Or on the other hand it's devalued if England / France / New Zealand lose their QF as a result of being undercooked. Not that straightforward is it

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Post by Old Man on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 9:12 am

Knowing it was typhoon season before the RWC was awarded to Japan surely world rugby should have had reserve dates for matches?

I know turnaround times would have been affected, would teams rather play than not?

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Post by No9 on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 9:13 am

What is NOT fair is I put £50 on All Blacks v Italy and England v France being 0-0 draws, but the b'tard bookie wont pay out.... 

Now that's NOT FAIR!!!

Crying or Very sad

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Post by The Oracle on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 9:14 am

Old Man wrote:Knowing it was typhoon season before the RWC was awarded to Japan surely world rugby should have had reserve dates for matches?

I know turnaround times would have been affected, would teams rather play than not?


Yeah, I agree. I'm sure Scotland would prefer to play a day or two later and have a 4 or 5 day turnaround for a 1/4 final rather than just go home. Should have been built in, as you say.
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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 9:15 am

BamBam wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:An absolute shambles, the tournament and therefore the winners will forever be tainted by this.

It casts a shadow over the tournament, but in no way will the win be tainted. 

I feel for Scottish fans if their game is called off, but their team's supine performance against Ireland was something within their control.

If either New Zealand or England win having only played 6 games then for me it will be tainted.

Or on the other hand it's devalued if England / France / New Zealand lose their QF as a result of being undercooked. Not that straightforward is it

That's also true.

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Post by Irish Londoner on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 9:22 am

No9 wrote:
RDW wrote:I hope the organisers don't play the 'act of God' card and deny ticket refunds!
On the clip, they clearly say tickets will be refunded.

It's not just about the ticket refunds though it is, people have taken time off work and spent a load of money on flights, hotels, etc. which they are not going to get back.

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Post by RDW on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 9:24 am

Irish Londoner wrote:
No9 wrote:
RDW wrote:I hope the organisers don't play the 'act of God' card and deny ticket refunds!
On the clip, they clearly say tickets will be refunded.

It's not just about the ticket refunds though it is, people have taken time off work and spent a load of money on flights, hotels, etc. which they are not going to get back.

to be fair they have the consolation of a holiday in Japan, which is amazing in its own right!

No doubt that I'd be raging if it happened to me though.


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Post by BigGee on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 9:26 am

There are going to be an awful lot of unhappy fans out in Japan atm and not just the Scottish ones.

It has been a very expensive WC to attend.

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Post by BigGee on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 9:29 am

RDW wrote:

to be fair they have the consolation of a holiday in Japan, which is amazing in its own right!

You would imagine that a fair bit of the holiday will be trashed as well if the whole country shuts down for the typhoon. I guess that can't be helped, but it is very sh1t!

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Post by RDW on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 9:33 am

True Biggee.

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 9:35 am

Italy probably wouldn’t have made it anyway, but they’ve still been cruelly shafted by events out of their control. Sounds like Scotland-Japan and other Sunday games are heading for the bin, but the organisers are hoping for a minor miracle to bail them out.

Would agree that it has devalued the tournament. It’s certainly stunted any momentum of this being a good World Cup.

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Post by Big on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 9:35 am

Agree that this is all bad for the tournament.  I appreciate the logistical challenge of moving fans and tv, but actually I'd rather the game was played on any old pitch with no tv and no fans - just a report of the result - than that it is called off entirely and called a nil-nil draw (and it shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to find a local club that's not in the path of the typhoon, and get a bit of radio coverage as a bare minimum).  It's not the end of the world with respect to England France as they are both guaranteed a QF place, but if other matches are called off it's much more significant.  If they blow their opponents away there will be questions asked about whether the break meant they were fresher, if they get blown away there will be questions asked about whether the break left them undercooked - I'm really not sure how much difference it makes.  

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 9:36 am

I'll love to debate how devalued englands win is should we win it!

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Post by LordDowlais on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 9:38 am

Duty281 wrote:Italy probably wouldn’t have made it anyway, but they’ve still been cruelly shafted by events out of their control. Sounds like Scotland-Japan and other Sunday games are heading for the bin, but the organisers are hoping for a minor miracle to bail them out.

Would agree that it has devalued the tournament. It’s certainly stunted any momentum of this being a good World Cup.

Wales game is on apparently, the Typhoon is not going to affect the city where their game is.

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Post by Irish Londoner on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 9:42 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:I'll love to debate how devalued englands win is should we win it!

It'll be the "asterix" final in the record books:

Rugby World Cup winners 2019 - England*

*2019 Rugby World Cup when other sides were unable to complete their group games.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 9:45 am

And I'll be right upset. Honest.

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 9:46 am

Youd think after all the giant monster attacks Japan would have some better contingency planning in place by now

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Post by alive555 on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 9:48 am

Scotlands game will be off

All Blacks game would never be off

TRUE STATEMENT!
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Post by BamBam on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 9:50 am

There's going to be typhoon levels of tears on this forum if England manage to win a devalued tournament Laugh

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 9:54 am

Japan can't host again. Them and WR should have agreed to a contingency which didn't involve calling off games. Got to feel for the fans and players out there.

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Post by RDW on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 9:55 am

Irish Londoner wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I'll love to debate how devalued englands win is should we win it!

It'll be the "asterix" final in the record books:

Rugby World Cup winners 2019 - England*

*2019 Rugby World Cup when other sides were unable to complete their group games.

I really hate myself for doing this, but it's asterisk Very Happy

Unless you're somehow involving the little French bloke with a moustache in the rugby world cup?

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Post by Ninjarugby on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 10:00 am

What happens if a Typhoon hits 1/4 final weekend/semi final weekend?
WR can't just call it a draw if they are not going to move it. Do they just toss a coin, most points in the group stages, points difference???
As we speak fans are on long flights landing in Tokyo for these matches and in many cases some are just travelling for 1 game.
They land only to be told that the match they are going to has been called off!
Fair enough as the games called off so far in Group B didn't really change anything & in Group C robbed Eng/Fra the chance of losing & avoiding the AB's but if The Japan/Sco games gets called off & Ireland beat Samoa (or even lose with a bonus point), Scotland go home for the 2nd WC after being robbed 4 years ago!
Also that Parisse & the older players won't get the chance to play in a WC again.
Not cool WR!

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Post by ebop on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 10:05 am

Who remembers the farcical 2019 Cricket World Cup final? Boy that was a joke outcome and has a big fat * next to it. We’re no where near there with this RWC but if shizz goes down in the playoffs, then that’s when the *s start getting rolled out.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 10:06 am

Actually you're correct. So much better with a * as you can have a laugh at the people complaining too!

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Post by BigGee on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 10:09 am

Ghiraldini, the veteran Italian hooker has spent months getting fit for the NZ game.

He was going to get 20 off the bench, his last ever gsme in a 15 year career.

He broke down in tears when he heard the news.

It is very very tough on some of these guys.

BigGee
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