Scotland V Russia...

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Post by jimbopip on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 6:16 pm

First topic message reminder :

Scotland v Russia (Shizuoka), ... Welcome to Stalingrad...or Bannockburn.

Well gentlemen, we seem to be spending a lot of time fretting about whether we shall need to pick up four points or five in our final group game while blithely assuming that the five are already in the bag from this fixture. warning

Russia didn't look too shabby in the opening match against Japan: losing 30-10 but if the referee had spotted a blatant body check on the Russian 9 the hosts could have been reduced to 14 and things might have been "interesting".

In their second match they looked at least as good as Fiji for a large part of the game before tiring badly in the latter part of the game; but a three day turn around will do that to a team. chin
Again, the Russian can rightly feel aggrieved that the officials somehow contrived not to show any red cards. The Fijians should have been reduced to 13 men after two "tackles" which would be frowned upon in even the rowdiest Glasgow kebab shops.

Three day turnaround, Stevie Wonder refereeing, playing the hosts in the opening game.... rumour has it the team song is to be changed to the blues classic "If it wasn't for bad luck I wouldn't have no luck at all".

Russia play Ireland tomorrow and then Scotland six days later. The Irish have made eleven changes from the defeat to Japan and will be hoping for five points before their final match against Samoa.

If Russia lose to Ireland they will have to mount the biggest comeback since Lazarus, or Scotland's second half at Twickenham, after three defeats if they hope to have any chance of winning.

So....an easy five points for Scotland? chin

I think the biggest obstacle for Scotland is the four day turnaround for the decider against Japan. Barring Ireland losing one of their remaining matches the loser of Japan v Scotland is going home. So Toonie will have to rest several first choice players and play a number who haven't featured yet.

Front Row

Taking only five props could come back to haunt Toonie here. Dell went off early against Samoa and Shrek played an hour in a sauna, he probably lost Bru's body weight in sweat. If Dell is not fit then Berghan needs to start at LH and Shrek is on the bench. This means that Ragnar and Nel will share TH duties. Not ideal in terms of resting our starting props before the big game.

Second Row

Toolis hasn't been in a match day 23 yet. Will he be ready to start? Presumably he'll partner Cummings with JG benching.

Back Row

Ideally we would rest Mbawsa-Replicant-Bradbury but that only leaves two to play ; Batman and Barcs. So do we have Turner hooking and Brown at 7? The nightmare scenario would see both of them injured. Just in passing...if that happened could we fly a hooker out in time for the next game? The jet lag would surely prevent him from playing?

Half backs

Frodo and Dancer must sit this one out. So Henners and Haircut to start? Wee George to bench.

Centres

Sam Johnson will be rested. Furra Linee at 12. Taylor at 13. He needs to play as he's still not up to full match fitness. Harris to bench BUT if Furra replaces haircut at 10 and Harris comes on then Taylor must play the full 80. Is he fit enough to be available against Japan four days later?

Back Three

Maitland and Hogg must be rested. So Blarehorn, Seymour and Graham. one of whom must then start against Japan.

So
1. Dell               Shrek
2. Turner           Rambo
3. Berghan        Ragnar
4. Toolis            JG
5. Cummings
6. Batman
7. Brown
8. Barcs            The slightly piqued B's Bradbury to bench

9. Henners        Wee George
10.Haircut        
11. Graham      Maitland
12. Furra Linee
13. Taylor         Harris
14, Seymour
15. King Blarehorn

It's a team that have never played together, with a few who haven't played in weeks. What could go wrong?

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Post by tigertattie on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 9:43 am

Nel on the hoof. Saw he had 30m to run so said "nahhhhhh" and passed it to Piecrust.

Wee George is running riot. Finally showing what he can do (yes it is against a tired Russian outfit). Greig would never have scored that first try though.

Horne needs to be playing regular rugby. Wasted behind Ali Price who is still knickers. Horne to Edinburgh!!!!
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Post by RDW on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 9:44 am

Can we please get Bradbury off.

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Post by BigGee on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 9:44 am

RDW wrote:Horne showing he's not a winger - could have held back a little bit. terrible performance from him...!

I don't know, it looked like a poor pass from Bradbury to me

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Post by EWT Spoons on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 9:45 am

BigGee wrote:
RDW wrote:Horne showing he's not a winger - could have held back a little bit. terrible performance from him...!

I don't know, it looked like a poor pass from Bradbury to me

I think it was flat, the ball carried forward through momentum, but I don't actually think he passed it forwards.

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 9:45 am

Russia really are not good  Sad

We knew that coming into the tournament, but while being decent athletes they seem to be lacking much rugby nous. If it were not for a variety of man sausage ups, Scotland would be looking at the biggest win of the tournament.

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Post by No9 on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 9:45 am

EWT Spoons wrote:I don't think that's a right call.  Ball carried forward, but wasn't passed forward
No, only the All Blacks are allowed that excuse..

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Post by No9 on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 9:48 am

Right... I'd better do some work before I turn my phone off for the Wales game... 

Well done Scotland, Russia have been extremely poor, but you can only play what's in front of you and you have done what you needed to make sure it goes to the wire against Japan.

thumbsup

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Post by Tramptastic on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 9:50 am

LondonTiger wrote:Russia really are not good  Sad

We knew that coming into the tournament, but while being decent athletes they seem to be lacking much rugby nous. If it were not for a variety of man sausage ups, Scotland would be looking at the biggest win of the tournament.

They've actually been ok this tournament considering they got in due to spain, belgium and romania defaulting out the tournament!

They only lost 30-10 (?) against japan, the hosts, and 35-0 to Ireland (4th in the rankings) and it took ages for samoa to wear them down.

Good physical side, smart kicker at 10, they've not exactly been mugs and at no point has it looked dangerous for them to be playing. I think Canada and Namibia have been a lot worse

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Post by RDW on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 9:52 am

Taylor's passing has been pretty loose since he's comeback - several times now since the warmup games that he's shovelled sh!t

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Post by BigGee on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 9:55 am

Barclay runs an easy one in, not sure he even did a dummy there!

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Post by BigGee on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 9:56 am

Lovely pop pass from Berghan to Barclay to set it up though

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Post by RDW on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 9:56 am

That winger was not interested int he tackle at all

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Post by BigGee on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 9:58 am

And another one, coast to coast. McInally this time

Russia just dead on their feet now

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Post by RDW on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 9:58 am

Best try of the night!

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 9:59 am

The Russian defending is on the same level as a Sunday morning social rugby team.
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Post by tigertattie on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 9:59 am

We need to keep focus. Can’t go getting carried away.

Told you Russia weren’t a worry
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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:00 am

Forward.
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Post by BigGee on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:02 am

Hastings picks up a hat trick as well to end it up

68-0 Scotland

Or maybe not, looked forward

Oh well, have to settle for 61-0

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:02 am

Glad that one was chalked off, should have took a quick Drop goal though.
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Post by RDW on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:03 am

Can't complain about that! Huge win, no apparent injuries and good squad rotation.

I'm surprised Bradbury played so long though - Ritchie didn't come off the bench. Given that Bradbury is a starter and Brown is on the bench why give Brown 30 and Bradbury 50? Can only think he took a knock.

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Post by Tramptastic on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:04 am

ahhh but he passed backwards and seymour was still in front of hastings when hastings caught it - the physics of momentum carried it forward despite the ball being passed backwards

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Post by The Oracle on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:04 am

Well done Scotland clap
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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:04 am

Tramptastic wrote:ahhh but he passed backwards and seymour was still in front of hastings when hastings caught it - the physics of momentum carried it forward despite the ball being passed backwards

Rubbish, it was forward
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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:05 am

Tramptastic wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Russia really are not good  Sad

We knew that coming into the tournament, but while being decent athletes they seem to be lacking much rugby nous. If it were not for a variety of man sausage ups, Scotland would be looking at the biggest win of the tournament.

They've actually been ok this tournament considering they got in due to spain, belgium and romania defaulting out the tournament!

They only lost 30-10 (?) against japan, the hosts, and 35-0 to Ireland (4th in the rankings) and it took ages for samoa to wear them down.

Good physical side, smart kicker at 10, they've not exactly been mugs and at no point has it looked dangerous for them to be playing. I think Canada and Namibia have been a lot worse

They are physical and they have worked on their defence, but there ability in possession is shocking. Canada have been poor, Namibia for me are better than Russia by a huge margin - Russia in that group would have conceded 100 points. You cannot fault Russia's effort - but I stand by my assertion that they are no good (or indeed poor). It is still the issue for Rugby that there are not enough competitive teams.

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Post by bsando on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:07 am

well that went pretty well! My pre match thoughts were far too cautious. Crazy second half and a shame two certain tries had slight forward passes in the buildup. It really is impressive when the forward platform is there for Scotland. Lovely to see Hastings and Horne play so well too, they're the future. And Pyrgos! Is that the same player who takes an age to do anything at Edinburgh?? He definitely looks better without the shackles attached.

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Post by LordDowlais on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:08 am

Two nils on the bounce, well done Scotland. thumbsup

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Post by RDW on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:11 am

If we're being picky our support lines could be better - we lost a few tries from outside runners not being deep enough.

That's basic stuff that amateur rugby players even get trained to do! Basic 2 on 1s.

I am being very picky though! Very Happy

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Post by NeilyBroon on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:15 am

Mince from russia but very clinical from us. G Horne is really pushing Frodo now.

The real challenge starts sunday but we've definitely not harmed our chances, especially if it comes down to PD.

A commanding, disciplined win over Japan and a quarter final performance to be proud of would redeem the coaching team. It must be said though, excellent to nil two teams, even if they were mince.
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Post by Tramptastic on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:15 am

TightHEAD wrote:
Tramptastic wrote:ahhh but he passed backwards and seymour was still in front of hastings when hastings caught it - the physics of momentum carried it forward despite the ball being passed backwards

Rubbish, it was forward

It all comes down to vectors and momentum, if you are running with the ball the ball is travelling at the same speed as you same as if you are standing still holding the ball the ball matches your speed i.e. zero. If you are standing still and pass the ball backwards the only force being applied to the ball is the force you apply to pass the ball. However, if you are running and pass the ball backwards there are 2 forces being applied to the ball: A forwards momentum applied from the your run and a negative force applied from your backwards pass. If the laws are applied as you indicate then all passes applied whilst running have a forwards momentum should be illegal. Rugby becomes impossible if we play follow the laws like this.

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Post by BigGee on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:15 am

On second look in the analysis, the Bradbury to Horne pass that was called forward looks like it was a bit of a harsh call

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Post by EST on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:15 am

RDW wrote:Can't complain about that! Huge win, no apparent injuries and good squad rotation.

I'm surprised Bradbury played so long though - Ritchie didn't come off the bench. Given that Bradbury is a starter and Brown is on the bench why give Brown 30 and Bradbury 50? Can only think he took a knock.

I thought this as well - I suppose Bradbury has played very little so they may have wanted to give him minutes, but it still seems a bit strange.

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Post by EWT Spoons on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:17 am

BigGee wrote:On second look in the analysis, the Bradbury to Horne pass that was called forward looks like it was a bit of a harsh call

YES BigGee! Delighted we're on the same page

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Post by RDW on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:19 am

EWT Spoons wrote:
BigGee wrote:On second look in the analysis, the Bradbury to Horne pass that was called forward looks like it was a bit of a harsh call

YES BigGee!  Delighted we're on the same page

I thought it was harsh too.

Point is though it should have been an easy 2 on 1 that would be never in doubt - both Bradbury and Horne were at fault that it was doubtful. These fine margins could cost us in tight games!

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Post by bsando on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:21 am

For anyone who was wondering...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=box08lq9ylg

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Post by EWT Spoons on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:24 am

RDW wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:
BigGee wrote:On second look in the analysis, the Bradbury to Horne pass that was called forward looks like it was a bit of a harsh call

YES BigGee!  Delighted we're on the same page

I thought it was harsh too.

Point is though it should have been an easy 2 on 1 that would be never in doubt - both Bradbury and Horne were at fault that it was doubtful. These fine margins could cost us in tight games!

Sorry RDW, delighted you're in this harsh boat as well

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Post by tigertattie on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:25 am

RDW wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:
BigGee wrote:On second look in the analysis, the Bradbury to Horne pass that was called forward looks like it was a bit of a harsh call

YES BigGee!  Delighted we're on the same page

I thought it was harsh too.

Point is though it should have been an easy 2 on 1 that would be never in doubt - both Bradbury and Horne were at fault that it was doubtful. These fine margins could cost us in tight games!

Sorry but as a forward I need to defend Bradbury and blame the winger (Horne) in this situation.

The winger needs to hold his run as the ball carrier will pass the ball to the support runner. The pass went into Horne's breadbasket, what else was Bradbury to do? Pass it behind Horne and into touch?

If Bradbury had flung it forward in front of Horne who had to strech to get it then I'd blame Bradbury, but that want the case.

Horne had a great game but he should have held his run a bit more. He got over excited in that one.
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Post by bsando on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:25 am

As BOD said in post game analysis, the Russia tackler halted Bradbury and that made the pass look forward when in fact it was not.

The last one was forwards though.

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Post by jimbopip on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:27 am

Not a terrible morning to be sure.

So a 3-0 win on Sunday would be enough then, Flounder? However, as we all know Japan are better at going forward than defending. If we counterpunch the way we did today we can score a few against them.

Russia's big strength was supposed to be in the pack, especially in the set piece: we totally dismantled them there. thumbsup

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Post by RDW on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:28 am

tigertattie wrote:
RDW wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:
BigGee wrote:On second look in the analysis, the Bradbury to Horne pass that was called forward looks like it was a bit of a harsh call

YES BigGee!  Delighted we're on the same page

I thought it was harsh too.

Point is though it should have been an easy 2 on 1 that would be never in doubt - both Bradbury and Horne were at fault that it was doubtful. These fine margins could cost us in tight games!

Sorry but as a forward I need to defend Bradbury and blame the winger (Horne) in this situation.

The winger needs to hold his run as the ball carrier will pass the ball to the support runner. The pass went into Horne's breadbasket, what else was Bradbury to do? Pass it behind Horne and into touch?

If Bradbury had flung it forward in front of Horne who had to strech to get it then I'd blame Bradbury, but that want the case.

Horne had a great game but he should have held his run a bit more. He got over excited in that one.

I know what you're saying, but Bradbury could also have passed slightly earlier! I would agree that the blame is more on Horne's side for not holding his depth. As you say just over eagerness.

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Post by RDW on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:28 am

jimbopip wrote:Not a terrible morning to be sure.

So a 3-0 win on Sunday would be enough then, Flounder? However, as we all know Japan are better at going forward than defending. If we counterpunch the way we did today we can score a few against them.

Russia's big strength was supposed to be in the pack, especially in the set piece: we totally dismantled them there. thumbsup

Don't think so - if they get a BP we need one too?

Unless you're on the wind up in which case raspberry

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Post by TJ on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:30 am

Anyone else spot the fear in Nels eyes as he broke clear? funny as heck
" help me - I can't run that far! Its against the props union rules!"

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Post by TJ on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:31 am

Bradbury to Horne right call his hands go forward just.

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Post by bsando on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:33 am

TJ wrote:Anyone else spot the fear in Nels eyes as he broke clear?    funny as heck
" help me - I can't run that far!  Its against the props union rules!"

Loved his pass, nice floaty one, not taking any risks haha

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Post by Tramptastic on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:59 am

really happy with that win, Horne the younger playing very well, we now know we can chuck Hastings at these lower ranked teams and feel confident he wont let us down - time for him to kick on against Tier 1 teams though!

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Post by jimbopip on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 11:09 am

RDW wrote:
jimbopip wrote:Not a terrible morning to be sure.

So a 3-0 win on Sunday would be enough then, Flounder? However, as we all know Japan are better at going forward than defending. If we counterpunch the way we did today we can score a few against them.

Russia's big strength was supposed to be in the pack, especially in the set piece: we totally dismantled them there. thumbsup

Don't think so - if they get a BP we need one too?

Unless you're on the wind up in which case raspberry

Seriously Flounder, a 3-0 win would see us through. We just need to collect four more points than them. But as I said earlier I think it will be a high scoring game.Our set piece was solid again today and I think our pack is better than theirs.

Would I ever wind you up, darling boy?
Would anyone?

P.S. How did Furra Linee play today?


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Post by tigertattie on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 11:11 am

meanwhile in Ōita....................
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Scotland V Russia... - Page 3 Empty Re: Scotland V Russia...

Post by tigertattie on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 11:17 am

jimbopip wrote:
RDW wrote:
jimbopip wrote:Not a terrible morning to be sure.

So a 3-0 win on Sunday would be enough then, Flounder? However, as we all know Japan are better at going forward than defending. If we counterpunch the way we did today we can score a few against them.

Russia's big strength was supposed to be in the pack, especially in the set piece: we totally dismantled them there. thumbsup

Don't think so - if they get a BP we need one too?

Unless you're on the wind up in which case raspberry

Seriously Flounder, a 3-0 win would see us through. We just need to collect four more points than them. But as I said earlier I think it will be a high scoring game.Our set piece was solid again today and I think our pack is better than theirs.

Would I ever wind you up, darling boy?
Would anyone?

Yes you would!

To sum up

Scotland win vs japan with no team getting any BP means Scotland go through on Points difference/head to head (depdns on the Ireland result but either way we go through)
Scotland win with a BP and japan get a BP then Scotland go through
Scotland win with no BP and Japan get a BP (for example if Scotland win 3 - 0 Jimbo) then JAPAN GO THROUGH

We need to win by more than 7 points. We also can't let them get a TBP or we'll also need a TBP. So they could score 4 tries and miss all kicks to give them 20 and we score three tries and convert them all plus a three penalties to gice us 30, we win 30 to 20 but they get a TBP and we dont, JAPAN GO THROUGH.

This is why the try Japan got at the end vs samoa was so important for them and potentially damaging to us.
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Post by jimbopip on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 11:25 am

We all know that Flounder, but it's good to have it explained in such eloquent terms.

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Post by tigertattie on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 11:48 am

It's going to come down to the mental strength of each team and how they set out to play.

We're at risk of "chasing the game" by trying to win by 8 points or more or scoring 4 tries rather than focussing on winning the game first.

Are Japan at risk of going out there and trying not to lose by more than 7 points?

The head shrinking folk may be earning thier wages over the next 4 days!
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Post by RDW on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 11:58 am

jimbopip wrote:
RDW wrote:
jimbopip wrote:Not a terrible morning to be sure.

So a 3-0 win on Sunday would be enough then, Flounder? However, as we all know Japan are better at going forward than defending. If we counterpunch the way we did today we can score a few against them.

Russia's big strength was supposed to be in the pack, especially in the set piece: we totally dismantled them there. thumbsup

Don't think so - if they get a BP we need one too?

Unless you're on the wind up in which case raspberry

Seriously Flounder, a 3-0 win would see us through. We just need to collect four more points than them. But as I said earlier I think it will be a high scoring game.Our set piece was solid again today and I think our pack is better than theirs.

Would I ever wind you up, darling boy?
Would anyone?

P.S. How did Furra Linee play today?

No it won't as Japan would get a losing BP!

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