Scotland V Russia...

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Post by jimbopip on Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:16 pm

First topic message reminder :

Scotland v Russia (Shizuoka), ... Welcome to Stalingrad...or Bannockburn.

Well gentlemen, we seem to be spending a lot of time fretting about whether we shall need to pick up four points or five in our final group game while blithely assuming that the five are already in the bag from this fixture. warning

Russia didn't look too shabby in the opening match against Japan: losing 30-10 but if the referee had spotted a blatant body check on the Russian 9 the hosts could have been reduced to 14 and things might have been "interesting".

In their second match they looked at least as good as Fiji for a large part of the game before tiring badly in the latter part of the game; but a three day turn around will do that to a team. chin
Again, the Russian can rightly feel aggrieved that the officials somehow contrived not to show any red cards. The Fijians should have been reduced to 13 men after two "tackles" which would be frowned upon in even the rowdiest Glasgow kebab shops.

Three day turnaround, Stevie Wonder refereeing, playing the hosts in the opening game.... rumour has it the team song is to be changed to the blues classic "If it wasn't for bad luck I wouldn't have no luck at all".

Russia play Ireland tomorrow and then Scotland six days later. The Irish have made eleven changes from the defeat to Japan and will be hoping for five points before their final match against Samoa.

If Russia lose to Ireland they will have to mount the biggest comeback since Lazarus, or Scotland's second half at Twickenham, after three defeats if they hope to have any chance of winning.

So....an easy five points for Scotland? chin

I think the biggest obstacle for Scotland is the four day turnaround for the decider against Japan. Barring Ireland losing one of their remaining matches the loser of Japan v Scotland is going home. So Toonie will have to rest several first choice players and play a number who haven't featured yet.

Front Row

Taking only five props could come back to haunt Toonie here. Dell went off early against Samoa and Shrek played an hour in a sauna, he probably lost Bru's body weight in sweat. If Dell is not fit then Berghan needs to start at LH and Shrek is on the bench. This means that Ragnar and Nel will share TH duties. Not ideal in terms of resting our starting props before the big game.

Second Row

Toolis hasn't been in a match day 23 yet. Will he be ready to start? Presumably he'll partner Cummings with JG benching.

Back Row

Ideally we would rest Mbawsa-Replicant-Bradbury but that only leaves two to play ; Batman and Barcs. So do we have Turner hooking and Brown at 7? The nightmare scenario would see both of them injured. Just in passing...if that happened could we fly a hooker out in time for the next game? The jet lag would surely prevent him from playing?

Half backs

Frodo and Dancer must sit this one out. So Henners and Haircut to start? Wee George to bench.

Centres

Sam Johnson will be rested. Furra Linee at 12. Taylor at 13. He needs to play as he's still not up to full match fitness. Harris to bench BUT if Furra replaces haircut at 10 and Harris comes on then Taylor must play the full 80. Is he fit enough to be available against Japan four days later?

Back Three

Maitland and Hogg must be rested. So Blarehorn, Seymour and Graham. one of whom must then start against Japan.

So
1. Dell               Shrek
2. Turner           Rambo
3. Berghan        Ragnar
4. Toolis            JG
5. Cummings
6. Batman
7. Brown
8. Barcs            The slightly piqued B's Bradbury to bench

9. Henners        Wee George
10.Haircut        
11. Graham      Maitland
12. Furra Linee
13. Taylor         Harris
14, Seymour
15. King Blarehorn

It's a team that have never played together, with a few who haven't played in weeks. What could go wrong?

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Post by tigertattie on Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:07 pm

RDW wrote:
jimbopip wrote:
RDW wrote:
jimbopip wrote:Not a terrible morning to be sure.

So a 3-0 win on Sunday would be enough then, Flounder? However, as we all know Japan are better at going forward than defending. If we counterpunch the way we did today we can score a few against them.

Russia's big strength was supposed to be in the pack, especially in the set piece: we totally dismantled them there. thumbsup

Don't think so - if they get a BP we need one too?

Unless you're on the wind up in which case raspberry

Seriously Flounder, a 3-0 win would see us through. We just need to collect four more points than them. But as I said earlier I think it will be a high scoring game.Our set piece was solid again today and I think our pack is better than theirs.

Would I ever wind you up, darling boy?
Would anyone?

P.S. How did Furra Linee play today?

No it won't as Japan would get a losing BP!

Thats what I've said too. I think Jimbo is just really trying to annoy you Flounder or his senile ramblings are getting worse!

It's a Bupa care home for Jimbo or Dignitas, depends on the Aging Glasgow Supporters current balance sheet!
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Post by George Carlin on Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:36 pm

Not much more you can do in 2 test matches than to win them 95-0.
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Post by tigertattie on Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:38 pm

George Carlin wrote:Not much more you can do in 2 test matches than to win them 95-0.

96 - 0?
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Post by jimbopip on Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:41 pm

Luvvies' fans in vindictive Dignitas Crowdfunding scheme... would not make a good headline in tomorrow's papers.

Also, first time Scotland have nilled successive opponents since Jim Telfer was in short trousers.

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Post by tigertattie on Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:53 pm

jimbopip wrote:Luvvies' fans in vindictive Dignitas Crowdfunding scheme... would not make a good headline in tomorrow's papers.

Also, first time Scotland have nilled successive opponents since Jim Telfer was in short trousers.

surely its the only time we've nilled two teams in the one competition?
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Post by tigertattie on Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:56 pm

Also, here's as short a summarisation as I can muster.

For Scotland to reach the QF, we need to beat Japan by 8 points or more and stop them scoring 4 tries or score 4 ourselves.

PS, There is also the possibility of Ireland doing an allmighty mansossage up vs Samoa which could open other variants.
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Post by 123456789. on Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:08 pm

In a rather weird turn of events if Ireland beat Samoa but fail to get the bonus point then it might be in our interests, hypothetically, to give Japan points. We now have a far superior points difference to the rest of the group so in a three way tie on 15 points we would win the group. So let's say Ireland beat Samoa by 15 points (scoring fewer than four tries), and we are let's say 20-10 up (having scored four tries) with time up on the clock then, to top the group, it would suit us to connive a situation in which Japan get a losing bonus point.

Whilst an unlikely, complicated scenario it does show how complicated all of this is. The bottom line is that Scotland need to play bloody well. Fortunately our big game players will be well rested; Finn Russell, Stuart Hogg, Sam Johnson, Sean Maitland and Greig Laidlaw will all have had a week and a half to prepare in the backs.

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Post by BigGee on Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:33 pm

Hate to be the bringer of bad news, but there are some fairly serious rumours going around that our game against Japan is going to be cancelled due to the typhoon.

If that happens then we are out!


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Post by RDW on Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:46 pm

BigGee wrote:Hate to be the bringer of bad news, but there are some fairly serious rumours going around that our game against Japan is going to be cancelled due to the typhoon.

If that happens then we are out!


I'm sure the organisers will be completely impartial and forget that a cancelled game guarantees Japan go through! Whistle

Joking aside I really hope not - as I said when the Ireland game was threatened it would be a really unsatisfactory conclusion. Much more so when your own team is involved! Safety is paramount though and if there's a high risk there's no other choice.

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Post by miaow on Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:07 pm

Job done for Scotland - but I literally don't understand the forward pass law on the basis of Horne's disallowed 4th try.

How can you allow Slade's try v Ireland where the ball travels a full 6 yards forwards in the space of 15 lateral metres, but disallow that pass from Bradbury? Bradbury's pass was less 'forward with momentum' but, because he was tackled, does it 'look' more forward? The pass being forward didn't lead to the try being scored - any catch, even a juggle, or a checked run, would have still led to it being scored.

The 'hands' looked identical to Slade's pass to May. I'm just really at a loss as to what the law is here - unless they've tightened up since the 6Ns, in which case Ireland can feel hard done by as that loss to England set them on their decline, I just don't get it. Slade's forward pass created a try -Bradbury's pass being marginally forward (and no more forward than momentum) was incidental to the try being scored.

Just don't get it.

But decent win for Scotland. Hard to tell if this is false hope or not, Typhoon aside, as felt they looked a bit underpowered up front while Russia were still in the game. That's where the game will be won or lost v Japan - can they keep momentum up while keeping it relatively tight. If they can't get go forward, they'll slow it down and succumb to Japanese pressure and aggression.

Some good running rugby from Scotland though, and credit to Russia, particuarly in defence. Unfortunate that they just looked spent by the second half.

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Post by BigGee on Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:10 pm

It will be a very different looking team agsinst Japan if the gamd does go ahead

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Post by tigertattie on Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:22 pm

RDW wrote:
BigGee wrote:Hate to be the bringer of bad news, but there are some fairly serious rumours going around that our game against Japan is going to be cancelled due to the typhoon.

If that happens then we are out!


I'm sure the organisers will be completely impartial and forget that a cancelled game guarantees Japan go through! Whistle

Joking aside I really hope not - as I said when the Ireland game was threatened it would be a really unsatisfactory conclusion. Much more so when your own team is involved! Safety is paramount though and if there's a high risk there's no other choice.

If that does happen it will be truely disasterous in that A) Scotland will be out and B) It will give Toonie an excuse not to step down!
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Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:53 pm

Yup, this hurricane could save his job. We've been good flat track bullies and were particularly impressive today, but if the weather does for us then whilst a horrible way to exit, that shocker against Ireland will be my abiding memory and I'd have to say the better sides progressed.

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Post by RDW on Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:03 pm

Surely world rugby's priority is to play the game no matter what. If they have to move it 600 miles but play behind closed doors due to logistics then that's what it has to be. If they can somehow arrange to let a crowd in - even a reduced one - even better.

Playing the game with no one there is better than not playing the game at all! They'll be losing money anyway if they just cancel.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:12 pm

I hope they'll take that view. It'd leave a sour taste in the mouth, and I'm sure Japan would rather get the opportunity to prove their worth.

Also toonie would still hang in there so it'll be a wooden spoon next year to boot! 🤣

In all seriousness, if we play with the confidence and accuracy we've shown I think we could sneak through, if world rugby give us a chance. Whether we'd show up against NZ? pfffftt hard to say. Considering Toonies record against tier obe i doubt it!
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Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:17 pm

RDW wrote:Surely world rugby's priority is to play the game no matter what. If they have to move it 600 miles but play behind closed doors due to logistics then that's what it has to be. If they can somehow arrange to let a crowd in - even a reduced one - even better.

Playing the game with no one there is better than not playing the game at all! They'll be losing money anyway if they just cancel.

100%. Just show them footage of an Edinburgh home game. You don't need fans....

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Post by miaow on Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:18 pm

Haha.

Agreed. The game is the priority. Even if they play it in Dubai filmed on an iphone stuck to a drone and livestreamed on Instagram, the game is the most important thing. I can't see any game being cancelled.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:19 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:I hope they'll take that view. It'd leave a sour taste in the mouth, and I'm sure Japan would rather get the opportunity to prove their worth.

Also toonie would still hang in there so it'll be a wooden spoon next year to boot! 🤣

In all seriousness, if we play with the confidence and accuracy we've shown I think we could sneak through, if world rugby give us a chance. Whether we'd show up against NZ? pfffftt hard to say. Considering Toonies record against tier obe i doubt it!

Let's remember that the confidence and accuracy was mostly on display by players Toonie won't pick for the Japan game.

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Post by 123456789. on Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:46 am

England-France has been cancelled, our game is 23 hours later on the same patch. I can’t see it being ready 24 hours on from Typhoon Haggis. By the letter of the law we’re probably out. Thing is, this is a knockout game in all but name. I’d hope that they would want the game to go ahead. It’s the last pool game, surely it could be played a day later at a different location. Sadly I suspect that they will seize the opportunity to usher Japan through.

I have to say I’ll be gutted if that is the case. I’m told that this is typhoon season. I’m all for spreading the game around the world but not like this. It’s not just that Scotland might not go through, Scotland and Japan have played the same teams and Japan have done better. We can’t really complain. It’s the people who have travelled across the world spending their life savings to see a rugby game. It’s world rugby actively encouraging people to visit a typhoon season. Players spend four year working toward this. The football World Cup in Qatar is ridiculous is many respects, but at least having ballsed up they had the foresight to change the timing to suit the climate. Failing to do so on this occasion is unforgivable.



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Post by miaow on Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:49 am

If there's any consolation, I reckon they've sacrificed the England France game for this. THIS is the game that's getting moved 600 miles away. Just a hunch.

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Post by Taylorman on Thu Oct 10, 2019 1:24 am

123456789. wrote:England-France has been cancelled, our game is 23 hours later on the same patch. I can’t see it being ready 24 hours on from Typhoon Haggis. By the letter of the law we’re probably out. Thing is, this is a knockout game in all but name. I’d hope that they would want the game to go ahead. It’s the last pool game, surely it could be played a day later at a different location. Sadly I suspect that they will seize the opportunity to usher Japan through.

I have to say I’ll be gutted if that is the case. I’m told that this is typhoon season. I’m all for spreading the game around the world but not like this. It’s not just that Scotland might not go through, Scotland and Japan have played the same teams and Japan have done better. We can’t really complain. It’s the people who have travelled across the world spending their life savings to see a rugby game. It’s world rugby actively encouraging people to visit a typhoon season. Players spend four year working toward this. The football World Cup in Qatar is ridiculous is many respects, but at least having ballsed up they had the foresight to change the timing to suit the climate. Failing to do so on this occasion is unforgivable.



True, not good. The home side being the fortunate one doesnt help. I guess of the three that could go home saw one beat Ireland and Ireland beat Scotland comfortably so although the triangle of matches wont be complete its a fair enough outcome if it has to happen.

Though I would back Scotland to beat Japan without the ambush factor.

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Post by RDW on Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:37 am

It's a worrying statement as it looks like they're not being proactive and moving the game but are basically waiting to see what the weather does. They say they're going to assess the condition of the stadiums after the storms but will only make the final decision on Sunday morning, which is so late that it will basically mean either play it at the stadium or don't.

It's coming down to luck instead of proper planning!

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Post by RDW on Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:10 am

BBC Carole says the typhoon should be gone by Sunday but it's a question not what it leaves behind in its wake.

The other issue here is with our very short turnaround - if the game is on our preparation is likely to be badly affected. In 4 days we've got to recover from a test match, travel to a new city and prepare for another one. With the city in lockdown on Saturday that will now have to be done in 3 days, with the captain's run not happening. Let's hope the hotel has a big ballroom!

It's going to be real backs to the wall stuff for the squad!

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Post by RDW on Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:40 am


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Post by George Carlin on Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:29 am

RDW wrote:It's a worrying statement as it looks like they're not being proactive and moving the game but are basically waiting to see what the weather does. They say they're going to assess the condition of the stadiums after the storms but will only make the final decision on Sunday morning, which is so late that it will basically mean either play it at the stadium or don't.

It's coming down to luck instead of proper planning!
To be fair though, so is my career/life in general, and that's working out inexplicably well.
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