Wales v Fiji

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 10:51 am

First topic message reminder :

Match thread.....
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Post by miaow on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 4:49 pm

Afro wrote:Well done Wales in the end. That was an absolute battle, so they have got to be relieved to get through with the win and the bonus point. I think they deserved it in the end, and lets hope that the injuries are not too bad.

Got to say though that I held back from commenting on here during it. There was plenty of good and bad for Wales, and decisions that could have been interpreted differently, resulting in a different result. But it felt that the Welsh supporters were very sensitive to any comment that was a negative to Wales, so I held back from posting full stop.

And that's as someone who supports Wales in every game apart from when they play England, and has been to the Principality about 10 times more often than I've been to Twickenham.

Fair statement, but some of the WUMming from the OP through this thread is no doubt stoking the flames. There's 'anyone but Wales' and there's 'deliberately trying to get a reaction'.

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Post by Old Man on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 4:53 pm

miaow wrote:
Old Man wrote:Great match this, Fiji pushed Wales well, hopefully Biggar will be OK.

Interesting, thought this would have been quite a frustrating game for the neutral.

Frustrating in what way?

It was intense, fast, great play and a scoreboard that fluctuated throughout.

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Post by miaow on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 4:54 pm

BamBam wrote:Wasn't LT's comment re Adams looking like he'd picked up an injury after his 3rd try? Again I didn't watch, but he was apparently struggling. There were other comments earlier about taking him off though

Did he go off in the end?

No, this was early on, first half, due to slipping off two tackles against Tuisova etc.

Not sure what people expect, the Welsh to suddenly defend like Brian Lima. Adams proved his worth, but even if he didn't, odd call. Go back on the first page. Lots of 'get Adams off' chat.

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 4:55 pm

Why didn't you start the thread then?

please go back through and report every 'wum' I supposedly made. I'm sure the Mods would love to read all you BS reports.

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Post by Afro on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 4:57 pm

miaow wrote:
Afro wrote:Well done Wales in the end. That was an absolute battle, so they have got to be relieved to get through with the win and the bonus point. I think they deserved it in the end, and lets hope that the injuries are not too bad.

Got to say though that I held back from commenting on here during it. There was plenty of good and bad for Wales, and decisions that could have been interpreted differently, resulting in a different result. But it felt that the Welsh supporters were very sensitive to any comment that was a negative to Wales, so I held back from posting full stop.

And that's as someone who supports Wales in every game apart from when they play England, and has been to the Principality about 10 times more often than I've been to Twickenham.

Fair statement, but some of the WUMming from the OP through this thread is no doubt stoking the flames. There's 'anyone but Wales' and there's 'deliberately trying to get a reaction'.

I can't say whether its wumming or not. But as I say to my kids, if you ignore them and don't give them the reaction they want, then they'll stop doing it.

I think it time to move on though tbh
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Post by miaow on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 4:58 pm

Old Man wrote:
miaow wrote:
Old Man wrote:Great match this, Fiji pushed Wales well, hopefully Biggar will be OK.

Interesting, thought this would have been quite a frustrating game for the neutral.

Frustrating in what way?

It was intense, fast, great play and a scoreboard that fluctuated throughout.

Got the sense it was very 'bitty'. Never really flowed as a contest. Intense, yes, and gruelling - but lots and lots of stoppages, and long ones as well. That has to have been the longest game of the tournament so far.

That in itself breaks up the game, but I also felt the fact that it was littered with lots of tit for tat errors was frustrating. A proper game was threatening to break out but it never really got going - and credit to Wales for that, that was/is the tactic against teams like Fiji.

Just thought the neutral would be hoping for fewer and shorter stoppages, though, mainly. The TMO check for Adams' ruled out try in particular felt very long, and then every time the ball went down, or when a penalty occurred, about 4-5 players went down for treatment. No one's 'fault' there, and an indictment that it was an intense match, but frustrating. Could have been a different game for the neutral had there just been more periods of play strung together. Very different to the Australia Fiji game.

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Post by miaow on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 4:59 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Why didn't you start the thread then?

please go back through and report every 'wum' I supposedly made. I'm sure the Mods would love to read all you BS reports.


I'm taking afro's advice after this, but...

1. I've flicked through this thread and nearly every comment from yours is ref got it wrong for Wales, Wales infringed, Wales lucky etc.
2. I haven't reported anything
3. You started the thread...just so you could WUM? Honestly pathetic.

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Post by Old Man on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 5:00 pm

miaow wrote:
Old Man wrote:
miaow wrote:
Old Man wrote:Great match this, Fiji pushed Wales well, hopefully Biggar will be OK.

Interesting, thought this would have been quite a frustrating game for the neutral.

Frustrating in what way?

It was intense, fast, great play and a scoreboard that fluctuated throughout.

Got the sense it was very 'bitty'. Never really flowed as a contest. Intense, yes, and gruelling - but lots and lots of stoppages, and long ones as well. That has to have been the longest game of the tournament so far.

That in itself breaks up the game, but I also felt the fact that it was littered with lots of tit for tat errors was frustrating. A proper game was threatening to break out but it never really got going - and credit to Wales for that, that was/is the tactic against teams like Fiji.

Just thought the neutral would be hoping for fewer and shorter stoppages, though, mainly. The TMO check for Adams' ruled out try in particular felt very long, and then every time the ball went down, or when a penalty occurred, about 4-5 players went down for treatment. No one's 'fault' there, and an indictment that it was an intense match, but frustrating. Could have been a different game for the neutral had there just been more periods of play strung together. Very different to the Australia Fiji game.

Longest half was SA vs Italy, first half took 53 minutes.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 5:04 pm

miaow wrote:
BamBam wrote:Wasn't LT's comment re Adams looking like he'd picked up an injury after his 3rd try? Again I didn't watch, but he was apparently struggling. There were other comments earlier about taking him off though

Did he go off in the end?

No, this was early on, first half, due to slipping off two tackles against Tuisova etc.

Not sure what people expect, the Welsh to suddenly defend like Brian Lima. Adams proved his worth, but even if he didn't, odd call. Go back on the first page. Lots of 'get Adams off' chat.

Nobody is doubting the attacking prowess of the Fijians, but Adams opening 20 mins were very poor. He wasn't great against Australia either. He was largely responsible for conceding 2 tries today (later scoring 3 so chalking it off pretty much) and it's perfectly normal to pick up on this. Not missing tackles is the least we can expect from pro rugby players, and defence from the whole team was not good enough today. I don't see why anyone has to try and go out of their way to excuse it when there is no excusing it - Shaun Edwards won't be.

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Post by The Oracle on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 5:18 pm

Agree about Adams early on, which is what the comments were relating too. Got bumped off two tackles which led to two tries. Poor tackle technique for both. Then a poor bit of handling which he knocked on after a North pass, if memory serves. All early on. Redeemed himself with 3 good tries though.
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Post by miaow on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 5:47 pm

Anyway.

Weird game that. Ultimately feel like Wales will be disappointed. Not all of it, some positive elements - mainly the win - but a few worrying elements for the latter stages, which we must be focusing on now.

Good performance from Fiji, showed up like they did against Australia. Man for man they are probably/definitely the best team to watch in the whole tournament.

Considering Wales had a 10 day break going in to this, I think they can be worried about the way they started. Lacking intensity, lacking accuracy, and lacking some nous as well. Josh Adams picked out but in reality Wales missed too many one on one tackles all over the park, it was just Adams' were out in the wide channels and more pronounced. 31 missed tackles overall, and that doesn't count the gaps they went through where no tackle was even attempted.

By and large, I look at the Australia performance against Fiji, and Wales were nowhere near in a few important facets.

1. Didn't take them on up front with ball in hand. Hooper, Latu, and a few others were absoute key in keeping Australia in it, then getting the lead second half by taking them on and making ground in the tight. Ken might have done this, Navidi did it a little bit, but by and large Wales really, really lack a powerful 'loose' carrier who can just burrow forward and make metres. We saw that when camped on their tryline - couldn't get over it, resorted to kick tries. That will be terminal against SA, as it was second half in the autumn when they came back in to it.

2. The wide game. Almost non existent from Wales. Australia kept moving the ball, knowing Fiji would both tire and lose shape/discipline, so that even if they got smashed a few times, eventually it would lead to tries like the one directly from a lineout that wrapped up the game. Jon Davies' break for the 4th try aside, and a few Liam Williams counters, there wasn't nearly enough threat from ball in hand. Half breaks were knocked on or botched, space and options were missed for the sake of playing it safe and/or getting smashed. Parkes had a rough game out wide. There's a huge lack of ability in between pre-planned strike moves, and broken field instinctive play. We need that midpoint of being able to go wide and just 'know' what to do - we honestly look similar to a tier 2 side in the phaseplays sometimes. I look at Russia earlier, or even the USA or Uruguay, and it's similar sort of stuff - flat back lines, just shipping it out to the next man, making a nice break and then forcing the pass, turning it over. It's all well and good saying 'it's Fiji' but I was hoping for more with ball in hand - not every play, just when it was on. Australia showed that the best teams will move the ball when they need to, and Wales won't win the World Cup if they don't do that.

A few things went better than the Australians - discipline, and definitely the tactics to not play in to the Fijians' hands. Shut the game down well enough that meant the Fijians didn't have too much left in the final 20 minutes, and the scrappy game was only ever going one way in the end.

Weird game with cards. Garces seemed to be of the mindset to try and calm and soothe throughout, and wasn't shy in handing out cards. Ken's was a touch harsh but ultimately, to the letter, a fair yellow. Felt the Fijian jumped in to the tackle somewhat but naivety from Ken to half commit to the tackle and flip him over. Clear first yellow for Fiji, then the other two were touch and go. Bit early perhaps for both, but it resulted in more space for both sides.

Thought Wales were infinitely superior at the breakdown, some great work securing own ball, one soft AWJ clearout aside. The change in interpretation to favour posession kills a team like Wales, who can't bully teams around, but rely on turnovers on the ball - several times James Davies and a few others were unlucky not to win penalties. Positive to see such ferocity to maintain posession through clearouts, but maybe that also tied in to not wanting to be the next ball carrier. Thought by and large Wales were instinctively looking to ship it on all day - even Moriarty looked to pass it wide before straightening up and then the loose ball led to Liam Williams sealing the win. That inability to hold and pass, to back the basic handling skills, showed - Wales had to confront them in a different way, and it showed. Battered and bruised bodies across the park.

North barely touched the ball. Again, failure to adapt and get him off the wing and in to the game. Barely strung the phases together to manage that.

As said above, very 'bitty' game, very long, lots of stoppages, lots of stop-start stuff. Wanted Wales' fatigue to be tested in that sense but it probably helped with the win in the end.

Ultimately, this was the game for me that solidified the absence of Anscombe. We can just about get away with Parkes at 12 over Scott Williams, but both Biggar and Parkes is a weakness. Didn't see too much from Patchell, and the best thing he did was a nice grubber down in to the corner. That lack of running and top drawer handling at 10-12 is a major issue - Watkin came on and got smashed with ball in hand, and beaten on his outside in defence. Not a great showing from the bench. Lack of options, really, but when you consider the depth of playmaking ability other teams have at 10-12 and even 15, there is a major, major issue for Wales in this department.

Maybe we'll win the World Cup throuhg defence, who knows. But just felt the difference in mentality, game awareness, and attacking intent was stark today between Australia and Wales.

Good old physical battle but it revealed Welsh flaws as much as anything else. We keep winning, keep getting job done, but I also wonder if we're just not fit enough either. It's hard to say if Eddie Jones has nailed England's fitness as they've not really been tested so far, yet Wales dropped off against Australia in a way they can't be happy with, and again, here, looked out on their feet at times when the ball went wide. Ireland are suffering in the same way - too much fitness based on the hope the latter stages will be more like 6 Nations games. Attritional, physical, line speed, and low error count. Not loose, lots of missed tackles, and dominant tackles.

Job done I suppose, fair play to Fiji. Never felt like a win was on the cards for them, don't think you can win test matches against tier 1 playing 7s these days, and they didn't offer too much else outside the wide game. Very fortunate with their maul defence on several occasions, their lineout was invariably crooked, and a bit lucky in the scrums as well. But some great players and they had the Welsh players on toast in most collisions, with a few of them playing within themselves.

I'm not sure anyone other than Navidi stood out for Wales. AWJ struggled with the physical game and felt the pinch - stretched for a knock on, failed to clearout led to a penalty. Ken going off didn't help, thought he may have made a difference. Noticed Wyn Jones was really struggling around the hour mark and was barely moving in the defensive line, leaving dog legs - Fiji didn't take advantage but fitness issues there, clearly. Ball played well, real grunt, and underused as a carrier, particularly in their half for setting something up. Quietly getting on with it and making up for Cory Hill's absence.

Shame the bench didn't come on sooner, but you understand why. Didn't empty it until the job was done, which was the right call - tactically and mentally. Good for the starting XV to effectively 'win' the game before coming off.

In some ways we won't face tougher opposition - there is basically no weak link. Only Volavola, really, and JD2 ran through him for the try. No let up, no player to 'target' for easy yards. SA, Eng, and NZ will be tough if we play them, but they won't be as specifically tough as that. Different strenghs, of course, but not as fundamentally big and strong particularly for the first hour.

Can't see us winning the World Cup - the injuries to Faletau, Anscombe and a few others look the difference, really - but the tactical side of things is a positive, and I think we can beat everyone bar NZ. Hopefully show maturity and a bit more fire and desire to take France on up front, if that is who we face, or if it's England, likewise. SA will be really, really tough if we play them. Really tough. Think that will be like 4 years ago - can Wales do enough, do they have the strike moves, the ambition, to get tries, and then hold on to a lead as Wales tire and the Boks' physical strength grinds them back in to the game.

Have to hope JD2 isn't seriously injured as looked like a hamstring or possibly a knee injury. Adams likewise, and of course Biggar. Might be a few other players with soreness after that game, and you hope no-one starting here today features for more than 10 minutes against Uruguay. Props especially, as they're most likely to come off the bench - but I do think it's possible Gatland will be looking for 80 minute performances from the reserves on Sunday.

All eyes on Biggar, really, as the worry. For all the subtle flaws he has that mean Wales aren't good enough in attack, he's still a prime asset and vital on the field - two head knocks, one major, in the space of 10 days is a worry. If we had a 2nd playmaker in the team you'd be tempted to rest him for the QF as well, but who knows.

Anyway, good result in the end, thought Wales might have a bit more in their locker and slightly disappointed they didn't crack on second half and finish them off - it was more a case of passively waiting for Fiji to lose. That won't do. Australia was a step up, this was a step down, but a win's a win and didn't think Wales were ever likely to lose.

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Post by miaow on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 5:50 pm

I 'get' your criticisms but reading the match thread felt like being at a game with idiots who see one bad thing and scream 'get him off'. Same goes for TightHead and his favouritism for Fiji - like the boorish gob who's just screaming at the ref he's getting everything wrong. Weird to see it among people who you'd think would know better - you can't avoid the vocal idiots at a game, so it's paticularly annoying to voluntarily experience it virtually.

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 5:57 pm

miaow wrote:I 'get' your criticisms but reading the match thread felt like being at a game with idiots who see one bad thing and scream 'get him off'. Same goes for TightHead and his favouritism for Fiji - like the boorish gob who's just screaming at the ref he's getting everything wrong. Weird to see it among people who you'd think would know better - you can't avoid the vocal idiots at a game, so it's paticularly annoying to voluntarily experience it virtually.

I from Fijian descent so pardon me for wanting them to win, plus many people here were criticising and applauding the Ref.


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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 6:01 pm

I’ve watched two Wales game, this and Australia, and honestly think they show just why Wales can’t win this. Two average sides have really stressed them and pushed them. Can they handle anyone any better? On what they’ve shown, not at all.

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Post by miaow on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 6:08 pm

Dolphin, if all you've seen of Wales are these 2 games, then it's probably skewing perspectives - but you're not wrong. Wales are almost like water - we adapt to what we play. Not really mentally comfortable with going out there and putting a stall out, that's all very English (or Australian). Wales rise to the occasion, but also fall, and although we got the job done early v Georgia, again, you're right, struggled against average teams.

In some ways I think this is a positive sign - won a Grand Slam barely getting out of third gear until we had to play a bit against England; massive winning streak including everyone apart from ABs doing the same. There's still a couple of gears in this Welsh team, primarily at least on step up than we showed against Australia. It's just unlikely we can keep it going for 3 games on the trot if we need it to beat France.

If we scrape past France, instead of having to play out of our skins, I think we can beat SA or Ireland in the SF, particularly as SA and Ireland are likely to smash the faeces out of each other for 80 minutes and be pretty tired.

But you're right. Wales are either holding back and will peak in a fortnight, all being well, or just don't have it in them break the habit of scraping wins without dominating.

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Post by The Oracle on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 6:09 pm

miaow wrote:I 'get' your criticisms but reading the match thread felt like being at a game with idiots who see one bad thing and scream 'get him off'. Same goes for TightHead and his favouritism for Fiji - like the boorish gob who's just screaming at the ref he's getting everything wrong. Weird to see it among people who you'd think would know better - you can't avoid the vocal idiots at a game, so it's paticularly annoying to voluntarily experience it virtually.


I hope you’re not replying to my message?
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Post by miaow on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 6:13 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:GET ADAMS OFF!

TightHEAD wrote:Josh Adams is having a shocker.

BigGee wrote:Poor Josh Adams is having a howler!

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Post by Old Man on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 6:14 pm

miaow wrote:Dolphin, if all you've seen of Wales are these 2 games, then it's probably skewing perspectives - but you're not wrong. Wales are almost like water - we adapt to what we play. Not really mentally comfortable with going out there and putting a stall out, that's all very English (or Australian). Wales rise to the occasion, but also fall, and although we got the job done early v Georgia, again, you're right, struggled against average teams.

In some ways I think this is a positive sign - won a Grand Slam barely getting out of third gear until we had to play a bit against England; massive winning streak including everyone apart from ABs doing the same. There's still a couple of gears in this Welsh team, primarily at least on step up than we showed against Australia. It's just unlikely we can keep it going for 3 games on the trot if we need it to beat France.

If we scrape past France, instead of having to play out of our skins, I think we can beat SA or Ireland in the SF, particularly as SA and Ireland are likely to smash the faeces out of each other for 80 minutes and be pretty tired.

But you're right. Wales are either holding back and will peak in a fortnight, all being well, or just don't have it in them break the habit of scraping wins without dominating.

I don’t think any team can afford to hold back at this stage, the next match is a qf, too late to start getting into momentum then.

Teams should have hit momentum in the last two weeks.

Between SA and Ireland, Ireland and Wales, SA and Wales there is very little in it.

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 6:18 pm

miaow wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:GET ADAMS OFF!

TightHEAD wrote:Josh Adams is having a shocker.

BigGee wrote:Poor Josh Adams is having a howler!

Until his 1st try he was. He showed true grit to step backup. why didn't you post the times and scores when these posts were made?
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Post by The Oracle on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 6:19 pm

miaow wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:GET ADAMS OFF!

TightHEAD wrote:Josh Adams is having a shocker.

BigGee wrote:Poor Josh Adams is having a howler!

Apart from Mikey’s comment, the other two were accurate at that point in the game. Those last two were not exactly incendiary comments, IMO. He was having a mare to start with but turned it around. Kudos to him.
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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 6:22 pm

The Oracle wrote:
miaow wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:GET ADAMS OFF!

TightHEAD wrote:Josh Adams is having a shocker.

BigGee wrote:Poor Josh Adams is having a howler!

Apart from Mikey’s comment, the other two were accurate at that point in the game. Those last two were not exactly incendiary comments, IMO. He was having a mare to start with but turned it around. Kudos to him.

Thanks fella. I really wasn't trying to get up anyones noses today, I really enjoyed that game and the right team won. Same as the Aus v Wales game too.

AWJ is a machine. Yahoo
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Post by miaow on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 6:27 pm

Old Man wrote:
miaow wrote:Dolphin, if all you've seen of Wales are these 2 games, then it's probably skewing perspectives - but you're not wrong. Wales are almost like water - we adapt to what we play. Not really mentally comfortable with going out there and putting a stall out, that's all very English (or Australian). Wales rise to the occasion, but also fall, and although we got the job done early v Georgia, again, you're right, struggled against average teams.

In some ways I think this is a positive sign - won a Grand Slam barely getting out of third gear until we had to play a bit against England; massive winning streak including everyone apart from ABs doing the same. There's still a couple of gears in this Welsh team, primarily at least on step up than we showed against Australia. It's just unlikely we can keep it going for 3 games on the trot if we need it to beat France.

If we scrape past France, instead of having to play out of our skins, I think we can beat SA or Ireland in the SF, particularly as SA and Ireland are likely to smash the faeces out of each other for 80 minutes and be pretty tired.

But you're right. Wales are either holding back and will peak in a fortnight, all being well, or just don't have it in them break the habit of scraping wins without dominating.

I don’t think any team can afford to hold back at this stage, the next match is a qf, too late to start getting into momentum then.

Teams should have hit momentum in the last two weeks.

Between SA and Ireland, Ireland and Wales, SA and Wales there is very little in it.

Agreed, but there's 'holding back' and 'Wales holding back'.

As I said, we're malleable, and we adapt to opposition more than trying to go out and play the game - one of the key reasons we beat Australia. We turned them over first half, scored tries from their errors, and comprehensively outplayed them. They switched things up in a way we struggled to cope, got the bounce of the ball and the rub of the green a few times, and their quality showed - not enough to win the game, and I think there's credit to Wales for the 6 second half points under adversity that ultimately proved the difference. But we do 'play' the opposition quite often, and that includes the French.

While England have been stuffing France for years, and even Scotland making them look useless quite often, Wales have been quietly ruthless in making sure we repeatedly make up for the 2011 WC by just turning them over. Never really playing a gameplan that we could win the game with, never running the ball a specific way and just carving the French open. It's a slower death. I'd expect us to do the same, accept that France will be powerful but sloppy, and try and minimise the mistakes and force errors from them.

It's SA I'd say we'll be really trying to put everything out there, because I disagree, I think SA have an extra bow or 2 compared to most other teams. They're still the most powerful team in the world and can move the ball when they want, as well and have genuine pace out wide. That can make all the difference.

Hoping North will get the bounce of the ball and/or be used more. He's been in form for 18 months now without tearing up trees, with Adams getting a lot of the focus and plaudits (and criticism, apparently...). But he stands out - along with Liam Williams - as the world class attacking threats in this team. We don't really have enough inside him, we don't have a playmaker, but he can get us going forward in the tight, can bash us up out wide, and has the speed and power to brush off defenders when running at pace. This was a tough game for him as only remember him makng one outside break that was called back for a knock on.

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Post by The Oracle on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 6:27 pm

TightHEAD wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
miaow wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:GET ADAMS OFF!

TightHEAD wrote:Josh Adams is having a shocker.

BigGee wrote:Poor Josh Adams is having a howler!

Apart from Mikey’s comment, the other two were accurate at that point in the game. Those last two were not exactly incendiary comments, IMO. He was having a mare to start with but turned it around. Kudos to him.

Thanks fella. I really wasn't trying to get up anyones noses today, I really enjoyed that game and the right team won. Same as the Aus v Wales game too.

AWJ is a machine. Yahoo


I don’t believe that for a second! Hug
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Post by Pie on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 7:12 pm

TightHEAD wrote:
miaow wrote:I 'get' your criticisms but reading the match thread felt like being at a game with idiots who see one bad thing and scream 'get him off'. Same goes for TightHead and his favouritism for Fiji - like the boorish gob who's just screaming at the ref he's getting everything wrong. Weird to see it among people who you'd think would know better - you can't avoid the vocal idiots at a game, so it's paticularly annoying to voluntarily experience it virtually.

I from Fijian descent so pardon me for wanting them to win, plus many people here were criticising and applauding the Ref.



Do Trolls come from Fiji?? Shocked

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 7:28 pm

I'm having to catch up on highlights as I was at work when it was in and forgot to record it. Looks like I missed out.

Two teams look pretty equally matched until Fiji tired as the game went on. Fiji have a lot of explosive brilliance and if they can cut out the errors then they can go toe to toe with most. Could easily have been a win today without the two forward passes costing them tries. Wales have a lot of quality in the back three, always look like they can cut loose and score through them when they want to. A less pragmatic coach would probably have Wales scoring more.

In live coverage explain why there was no yellow card following the penalty try? I though that the ref was supposed to issue a yellow card where the officials could identify the perpetrator leading to the penalty try. Wouldn't have been difficult to pick out the Welsh forward who came in the side and took the maul down.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 7:35 pm

Not sure, but in live coverage they didn't explain why Wales didn't earn a penalty try from Fiji's thrice scrum infringements either. Surely that would have been a yellow for their LH too.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 7:39 pm

The Oracle wrote:
miaow wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:GET ADAMS OFF!

TightHEAD wrote:Josh Adams is having a shocker.

BigGee wrote:Poor Josh Adams is having a howler!

Apart from Mikey’s comment, the other two were accurate at that point in the game. Those last two were not exactly incendiary comments, IMO. He was having a mare to start with but turned it around. Kudos to him.

Yeah great resilience by him to turn that around. It wasn't a good enough defensive display overall anyway, which I also said. I'm also unsure as to why someone would get very upset about justifiably pointing out how bad Adams was to begin with. I do get a little stressed when Wales keep making errors like they did, which may go some way to explain how I reacted to Adams' shall we say, sub-par 20-30 minutes.

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Post by robbo277 on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 7:45 pm

Sam

Letter if the law they probably should have, but it felt a bit generous to give a penalty try in that situation as we don't often see them that early.

I'll caveat that with I was only half watching as I was working at the same time.

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Post by RiscaGame on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 8:00 pm

robbo277 wrote:Sam

Letter if the law they probably should have, but it felt a bit generous to give a penalty try in that situation as we don't often see them that early.

I'll caveat that with I was only half watching as I was working at the same time.

Funnily enough, Wales didn’t get a penalty try against Georgia, when I thought they looked like they had more momentum with their drive. I do also think Biggar was right to make the point about no penalty try for the scrum, although obviously he shouldn’t have been the one raising the point.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 8:04 pm

Well Wales got the win today, but at what cost to the Wales team?

Fiji was doing well for the first 30 minutes, then some yellow cards for both teams, made the difference. I do think that Ken Owens was lucky to get a yellow card, thought it should of been a red card.

I understand that Biggar got another bang to the head. Hope he will be all right.

How many more injuries was there?

But well done Wales a win is a win and you did win. Well done.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 8:50 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Not sure, but in live coverage they didn't explain why Wales didn't earn a penalty try from Fiji's thrice scrum infringements either. Surely that would have been a yellow for their LH too.

It's not the number of infringements that equals the penalty try it's whether the ref thinks a try would have been scored. Could have been a yellow for repeated infringement though, they didn't show that sufficiently in the highlights.

Sometimes the moaning at the ref, particularly from someone not the captain, can have the adverse effect to that intended. Ref will want to make a point that they won't be bullied.

robbo277 wrote:Sam

Letter if the law they probably should have, but it felt a bit generous to give a penalty try in that situation as we don't often see them that early.

I'll caveat that with I was only half watching as I was working at the same time.

It's not the number of infringements or the amount of pressure it's whether a try would have been scored had it not been for the cynical play of the defending team. Fiji were practically over the line and the maul was cynically brought down and obviously so. Only way it shouldn't be a yellow if they couldn't pick out whoever on the openside tackled it down.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 9:00 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Not sure, but in live coverage they didn't explain why Wales didn't earn a penalty try from Fiji's thrice scrum infringements either. Surely that would have been a yellow for their LH too.

It's not the number of infringements that equals the penalty try it's whether the ref thinks a try would have been scored. Could have been a yellow for repeated infringement though, they didn't show that sufficiently in the highlights.

Sometimes the moaning at the ref, particularly from someone not the captain, can have the adverse effect to that intended. Ref will want to make a point that they won't be bullied.

robbo277 wrote:Sam

Letter if the law they probably should have, but it felt a bit generous to give a penalty try in that situation as we don't often see them that early.

I'll caveat that with I was only half watching as I was working at the same time.

It's not the number of infringements or the amount of pressure it's whether a try would have been scored had it not been for the cynical play of the defending team. Fiji were practically over the line and the maul was cynically brought down and obviously so. Only way it shouldn't be a yellow if they couldn't pick out whoever on the openside tackled it down.

In which case Wales were marching their scrum backwards towards their line for the third time straight (first scrum was brought down by their LH), no penalty try was coming so Wales played it, if I remember rightly. In which case had their been a penalty try then presumably it would have also been a YC for the Fijian LH. I can only assume Garces was reluctant due to Fiji already having a player in the bin, again if I remember that rightly. If I get the chance I'll go back over it, same for you if you're keen. If something could have benefitted Wales you wouldn't hear it much on here, but if it benefitted our opposition however...

I believe what Risca is referring to is when Biggar questioned Garces on awarding Fiji a penalty try off the cuff, he pretty much said what I just said. I didn't hear him say anything about us not getting one, but I could have missed it. So DB moaning didn't prevent us from being awarded a penalty try, nor did it persuade Garces to go back on his decision to award one to Fiji.

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Post by Afro on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 9:15 pm

I must have missed the Wales scrum/denied penalty try so cant comment on that one, but the Fiji one was a clear penalty try, they were going over the line at a rate of knots and had it not been brought down, it was obvious that Fiji would score.
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Post by miaow on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 9:24 pm

Old Man wrote:Longest half was SA vs Italy, first half took 53 minutes.

Apparently the game was 2 hours long. Thought it was dragging. Makes 53 minutes look a doddle...

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Post by miaow on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 9:25 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:In live coverage explain why there was no yellow card following the penalty try? I though that the ref was supposed to issue a yellow card where the officials could identify the perpetrator leading to the penalty try. Wouldn't have been difficult to pick out the Welsh forward who came in the side and took the maul down.

Probably because he'd just (prematurely) handed one out to James Davies. The lineout resulted from that penalty.

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Post by miaow on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 9:27 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
miaow wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:GET ADAMS OFF!

TightHEAD wrote:Josh Adams is having a shocker.

BigGee wrote:Poor Josh Adams is having a howler!

Apart from Mikey’s comment, the other two were accurate at that point in the game. Those last two were not exactly incendiary comments, IMO. He was having a mare to start with but turned it around. Kudos to him.

Yeah great resilience by him to turn that around. It wasn't a good enough defensive display overall anyway, which I also said. I'm also unsure as to why someone would get very upset about justifiably pointing out how bad Adams was to begin with. I do get a little stressed when Wales keep making errors like they did, which may go some way to explain how I reacted to Adams' shall we say, sub-par 20-30 minutes.

Pretty obvious. 'GET ADAMS OFF' is about inane as it gets. There were 3 defenders who failed to stop Tuisova for the first try. After Adams got bowled over for the second, there were still defenders there. It's not even a good tactical read of the game, let alone a sensible suggestion. Can we get you and TH your own thread next time to shout at each other? That would be ideal.

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Post by miaow on Wed 09 Oct 2019, 9:28 pm

Also, the penalty try itself looked harsh. Didn't see a replay but honestly looked like it just lost control and went to ground 'naturally' rather than being hauled down. Arguably fair, but as the James Davies yellow was harhs, and the try itself, a yellow card again would have really rubbed it in.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 12:27 pm

miaow wrote:Also, the penalty try itself looked harsh. Didn't see a replay but honestly looked like it just lost control and went to ground 'naturally' rather than being hauled down. Arguably fair, but as the James Davies yellow was harhs, and the try itself, a yellow card again would have really rubbed it in.

Penalty try wasn't harsh, spot on from the camera angle in the highlights. As the Fiji maul rolls to the left it loses most of the Welsh defenders and accelerates to the line. A number of the Welsh defenders go to ground and a Welsh defender from the openside tackles one of the Fijians from the side. It's pretty blatant but if the ref was unsure which party took it down he could use that in order to avoid giving a second yellow if he thought that the one previous was adequate.

James Davies was clearly off his feet and repeatedly told to release. It was a cynical penalty, slowing the ball down to halt the attack. Only watched the highlights so unsure how harsh it was in the context of the game. Too far from the line for an obvious yellow.

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Post by Steffan on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 12:52 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Oh okay that's two comments on topic and non-offensive that I've had complained about here, including the attack on me and targeting of my comment on the 'delayed games' thread yesterday. The posters (always of a certain nationality) targeting me are the ones who constantly post incorrect stuff just to WUM people on every single Wales match thread. I am surprised this is allowed to continue. You expect posters to stay on topic but allow this to go on, and then you just lock threads rather than deal with individuals.
Maybe you would be happier posting on another forum if this one isn't living up to your exceptions? Just a thought

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Post by miaow on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 12:56 pm

I'll take your word Sam. Watched the highlights last night but didn't watch out for it. No huge complaints - probably abit of bias coming in as it all happened quite quickly - a Fijian scrum, a linebreak, yellow card, lineout, penalty try. All in under 2 minutes.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 2:21 pm

The Oracle wrote:
miaow wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:GET ADAMS OFF!

TightHEAD wrote:Josh Adams is having a shocker.

BigGee wrote:Poor Josh Adams is having a howler!

Apart from Mikey’s comment, the other two were accurate at that point in the game. Those last two were not exactly incendiary comments, IMO. He was having a mare to start with but turned it around. Kudos to him.

Yep. It seems odd to take issue with people's responses to a match as it's being played. Emotions are naturally high - we wouldn't be fans if we didn't care - and it's unrealistic to expect people to be 100% objective and analytical. It's especially poor IMHO to sneer at people's in-match comments from the safety of full time.

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Post by miaow on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 3:06 pm

A stupid comment is stupid whether it's said in the heat of the moment at a game or from the 'safety' of full time. Even less excuse for being that bore at a match mouthing off and projecting their own feelings and failures on to officials/players/coaches on a forum, where it (should) take time and thought to convey your expression.

If you're in ALL CAPS writing a player should come off after 20 minutes, and that player then goes on to score 3 tries, it's weird to try and claim the moral high ground...

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 3:10 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
miaow wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:GET ADAMS OFF!

TightHEAD wrote:Josh Adams is having a shocker.

BigGee wrote:Poor Josh Adams is having a howler!

Apart from Mikey’s comment, the other two were accurate at that point in the game. Those last two were not exactly incendiary comments, IMO. He was having a mare to start with but turned it around. Kudos to him.

Yep. It seems odd to take issue with people's responses to a match as it's being played. Emotions are naturally high - we wouldn't be fans if we didn't care - and it's unrealistic to expect people to be 100% objective and analytical. It's especially poor IMHO to sneer at people's in-match comments from the safety of full time.

At last some sense.

ADAMS did well to get himself back into the game, reminded me of Cuthbert a bit, but without the hat-trick response!
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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 3:24 pm

As I said, before he got a load of comments here on this thread removed, this particular Adams argument should have been left at my last reply to The Oracle. I and others have said what's needed to be said on that matter. Still putting this much effort to be riled up over it whilst very subtly posting sly insults is a little strange to say the least.

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