QF2 - Match Thread - New Zealand v Ireland - 19/10/19 - K/O 11:15 BST

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Post by miaow on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 6:31 pm

Thought I'd get these made nice and early for a few reasons - but one being that we're already now looking ahead to the QFs with several teams having finished their group stage, so it's all heating up for the proper knockout stuff...barring any more disruption.

NZ

QF2 - Match Thread - New Zealand v Ireland - 19/10/19 - K/O 11:15 BST 1538347555208

Team: B Barrett; Reece, Goodhue, Lienert-Brown, Bridge; Mo'unga, Smith; Moody, Taylor, Laulala, Retallick, Whitelock; Savea, Cane, Reid.

Replacements: Coles, Tuungafasi, Ta'avao, S Barrett, Todd, Perenara, Williams, J Barrett.


Ireland

QF2 - Match Thread - New Zealand v Ireland - 19/10/19 - K/O 11:15 BST Irish-rugby-fans-1024x677

Team: Kearney; Earls, Ringrose, Henshaw, Stockdale; Sexton, Murray; Healy, Best, Furlong, Henderson, James Ryan, O'Mahony; Van der Flier, Stander.

Replacements: Scannell, Kilcoyne, Porter, Beirne, Ruddock, McGrath, Carbery, Larmour.



Venue: Tokyo
Referee: Nigel Owens
AR1: Pascal Gauzere
AR2: Angus Gardiner
TMO: Graham Hughes


Last edited by miaow on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 1:53 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 12 Oct 2019, 7:33 pm

One thing I’m glad about is if it’s Ireland glad Sam Canes back in the saddle as I think we missed him last year in Dublin, as good as Savea was, Canes tackling is second to none and will be needed here. Quite a different side from last year that Ireland? Will be facing. Far more mobile.

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Post by No9 on Sat 12 Oct 2019, 7:52 pm

Whoever you meet next and in the semi, we’ll see you in the finals to end 66 years of hurt.... thumbsup

Wales

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 12 Oct 2019, 8:08 pm

Taylorman wrote:One thing I’m glad about is if it’s Ireland glad Sam Canes back in the saddle as I think we missed him last year in Dublin, as good as Savea was, Canes tackling is second to none and will be needed here. Quite a different side from last year that Ireland? Will be facing. Far more mobile.

VdF is a formidable tackler himself. He has played NZ twice for two wins and is a tackle machine. NZ will need to be prepared to win the gainline battles.

The wingers are different but its not that different elsewhere. Who else?

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 12 Oct 2019, 8:10 pm

No9 wrote:Whoever you meet next and in the semi, we’ll see you in the finals to end 66 years of hurt.... thumbsup

Wales

That would be an amazing story if it happened but the odds are low.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 12 Oct 2019, 8:15 pm

Anyway good luck to NZ, hopefully it will not be ruined by bad refereeing but won fair and square by whoever wins. Hopefully a good game.

Hoping for a NH ref.

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Post by No9 on Sat 12 Oct 2019, 8:25 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
No9 wrote:Whoever you meet next and in the semi, we’ll see you in the finals to end 66 years of hurt.... thumbsup

Wales

That would be an amazing story if it happened but the odds are low.

Never say never.... we have to break that hoodoo sometime, and now is as good a chance we’ve had since 2011. But have to get the French hurdle out of the way first (assuming we don’t screw up tomorrow   Rolling Eyes )....oh and probably the Boks as well... Shocked ... saying that it will be amazing if we do it...if we do, don’t think I’ll be sober before Christmas Very Happy

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 12 Oct 2019, 8:39 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
Taylorman wrote:One thing I’m glad about is if it’s Ireland glad Sam Canes back in the saddle as I think we missed him last year in Dublin, as good as Savea was, Canes tackling is second to none and will be needed here. Quite a different side from last year that Ireland? Will be facing. Far more mobile.

VdF is a formidable tackler himself. He has played NZ twice for two wins and is a tackle machine. NZ will need to be prepared to win the gainline battles.

The wingers are different but its not that different elsewhere. Who else?

Most of the team...Barrett’s in for DMac at 15, Mo’unga to 10 and that combo is working a treat so far.
No Ben Smith or Reiko on wing, ALB will be at 13, Goodhue hasn’t got enough time or done enough. ALB is probably the form centre of the tourney so far, back to his 2016 form.

Crotty May be at 12.

Front row has changed completely, now Moody, Coles and Laulala, and no Liam Squire...Cane, Ardie and Read of the sides.

Some of them were off the bench last year. Retallick is lucky to have got the 30 he did, and is usually the best of them all to hit the ground running after time off.

No injuries as far as I know, just less game time for a couple after them.

Main difference is the up tempo in game plan. It’ll be a light but very mobile side. Ireland will have to get on top early.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 12 Oct 2019, 8:42 pm

No9 wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
No9 wrote:Whoever you meet next and in the semi, we’ll see you in the finals to end 66 years of hurt.... thumbsup

Wales

That would be an amazing story if it happened but the odds are low.

Never say never.... we have to break that hoodoo sometime, and now is as good a chance we’ve had since 2011. But have to get the French hurdle out of the way first (assuming we don’t screw up tomorrow   Rolling Eyes )....oh and probably the Boks as well... Shocked ... saying that it will be amazing if we do it...if we do, don’t think I’ll be sober before Christmas Very Happy

Wales are looking good, have had and won the toughest section, injuries probably the main downer.

All three of the four home unions look capable, though still think England are the only one that can win of the three with more boxes ticked across the side.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 12 Oct 2019, 8:44 pm

But who knows. I’m prepared for an AB loss...(which is why I can happily talk up a possible win! Best way to be) Yahoo

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Post by miaow on Sat 12 Oct 2019, 8:48 pm

If it is to be Ireland in this match, I thought they looked better today. The breakdown will be very interesting - there's not too much profit to be had in defence at this RWC with the way the refs are adjudicating, which presumably benefits Ireland. They looked ruthless against Samoa at times with their desperation to clear out. Can only see that repeated again in the QF. It won't be pretty, but it'll be dogged and desperate and a good, hard slog of a game.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 12 Oct 2019, 8:55 pm

I still think Ireland depend to much on Johnny Sexton. if he get's injured Ireland will struggle.

But let's hope he stays fit and steers Ireland to at least the semi final.

Or am i being to optimistic for Ireland's chances? Shocked

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 3:59 pm

Weather on Saturday in Tokyo, high of 20 degrees, cloudy with some showers, possible heavy rain. Low humidity.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 4:21 pm

Heavy rain would favour new Zealand I reckon. This is the match of the world cup so far. I hope its brutal for both teams so whoever goes through is limping by the time they hopefully face england!

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Post by westisbest on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 4:25 pm

If we are to make a first ever semi final, then NZ for me would be the team to do it against.

We haven’t been brilliant this World Cup. Did we’ll against Scotland and Samoa.

Hopefully a massive performance next Saturday and we we get that quarter final win we have been waiting for for so long.

And on a personal note, it would be a great birthday present.

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Post by Engine#4 on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 4:49 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Heavy rain would favour new Zealand I reckon. This is the match of the world cup so far. I hope its brutal for both teams so whoever goes through is limping by the time they hopefully face england!

Interesting I would say the opposite. Slower pace, more handling errors, more scrums which I think is an area Ireland could get after New Zealand. Moody was marmalised against South Africa and would be lucky to get away with dropping that many scrums again.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 4:51 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Heavy rain would favour new Zealand I reckon. This is the match of the world cup so far. I hope its brutal for both teams so whoever goes through is limping by the time they hopefully face england!

Yes I kind of agree that heavy rain would favour them but I do not think it would make that much difference or make or break the game for either side.

I think todays game was the game of the tournament so far. A lot to live up to.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 5:10 pm

This game could be the one to watch next week. the 2 top team/s in the world playing for the lives. can Ireland win, yes, but the All Blacks, can grind out wins going down to the wire.

Ireland will have to be on top of their game if they are to stand a chance, any chance at all.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 5:18 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Anyway good luck to NZ, hopefully it will not be ruined by bad refereeing but won fair and square by whoever wins. Hopefully a good game.

Hoping for a NH ref.

You mean you’re hoping for a French ref? Lost count of the favours they’ve done the Irish.

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Post by Poorfour on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 5:29 pm

It could be Wayne Barnes... that’ll keep the New Zealand fans happy.
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Post by Engine#4 on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 5:32 pm

No. Completely lost count? You must be able to give us a rough estimate at least?

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 10:46 pm

Poorfour wrote:It could be Wayne Barnes... that’ll keep the New Zealand fans happy.

Don't care who the Ref is. He won't be at the training runs. thumbsup

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Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 11:26 pm

Thankfully it’s only New Zealand. Ireland by 10. It’s not like it’s Japan

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 11:30 pm

Good to see the Irish getting into Stephen Jones for his comments about not wanting the game to go ahead. Senile old...

What is it about those wanting to speak 'on behalf of others'. We copped it too.

Heres an idea...control the game..'ON' the field...

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Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 11:51 pm

He is only paying lip service to his lord and masters. Typical.

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Post by miaow on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 12:58 am

Taylorman wrote:What is it about those wanting to speak 'on behalf of others'. We copped it too.

We.

we

Errrr...

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Post by miaow on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 1:09 am

Wouldn't be surprised to see Ireland turn up and put in a 60 minute masterclass v NZ with then 20 minutes somewhere in there where they fall apart a bit/cannot control the ABs.

Can easily see NZ losing and if there's one team where being undercooked won't help NZ, it's probably the Irish.

Blood, guts, thunder, heart. Don't expect too much in the way of skills and flowing rugby. All about the micro contests and form and technique around the breakdown here.

Yet to see enough from Ireland's backs to think they can either score long range counter attacks that may fall their way, or are willing to risk the play that might see them get over the line for a decisive score. Rough old game for the wingers/outside backs coming up, rugby's more and more about the fundamental basic attributes, and there is pace in Bridge, Barrett, and Reece that Earls, Kearney, and even Stockdale (as a defender) will be up all night worrying about.

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Post by Taylorman on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 1:49 am

They've had reasonable wins vs the other sides and it seems a lot is centered around Sexton who has a love hate thing with NZ.

They love to hold onto the ball.

If they get it this weekend they'll try and keep it for two years if they can.

NZ's kicking and wide game will be key to breaking up what seems to be a block of 15 players all moving around the park as one.

Thats the fundamental difference between the two sides...

ABs: create, or die.

Ireland: We want nothing to happen in the whole match, and score points as a by product of that.

Or something like that...

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Post by miaow on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 1:55 am

Not far wrong. I don't think I've been more frustrated/bored watching Wales than against Ireland in 2017 and in the warm up game in Dublin this year. Make the England 03 team look like Fijians. All part of the game though.

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Post by eirebilly on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 9:35 am

I just cant see an Irish victory myself, as much as I would love it. Ireland simply don't do back to back strong performances.

I would say New Zealand by 3 clear scores.
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Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 9:51 am

Id be disapointed if we have already seen Ireland's best performance at this RWC. Ok we played really well v Scotland and well v Samoa but I think they can go up another gear.

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Post by eirebilly on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 10:11 am

I think even another gear may still be 2 gears under what the All Blacks can go.

Henshaw/Ringrose has to be the centre combo now.
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Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 10:29 am

eirebilly wrote:I think even another gear may still be 2 gears under what the All Blacks can go.

Henshaw/Ringrose has to be the centre combo now.

If thats the case so be it but I want a big performance, if we get that then we cant ask much more for them if NZ really are a few levels above.

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Post by Old Man on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 10:38 am

This match will be interesting from the point of view, how much can Ireland lift themselves and will the All Blacks start slow after two weeks of no rugby?

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Post by Taylorman on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 10:41 am

True, they’re terrible starters. A game plan which requires splitting the opposition completely open from the start makes it somewhat more difficult. For me they have to run Ireland ragged from the start. Any which way they can.

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Post by robbo277 on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 10:51 am

eirebilly wrote:I just cant see an Irish victory myself, as much as I would love it. Ireland simply don't do back to back strong performances.

I would say New Zealand by 3 clear scores.

Was it a strong performance? Or a decent performance against a poor side? Samoa have been a real disappointment this World Cup. Struggled past Russia and offered very little threat against the three teams fighting for quarter-final places. It wouldn't have been too emotionally taxing a game, especially after Ireland took hold early on.

I agree with Collapse in that Ireland can go up again from this game. If they can get into New Zealand early and disrupt their flow it should be a really good fixture. A lot, as ever, will depend on Sexton.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 10:55 am

Taylorman wrote:True, they’re terrible starters. A game plan which requires splitting the opposition completely open from the start makes it somewhat more difficult. For me they have to run Ireland ragged from the start. Any which way they can.

I probably disagree. Much depends on the conditions, but I feel flinging the ball around from minute 1 is the best way to give Ireland a good foothold in this game. While the refs have started looking at the offside line with more scrutiny, Ireland will still e looking to pressure the kiwis with their blitz defence. If NZ play their more usual game of kicking the leather off the ball when nothing is on, almost rope-a-doping Ireland with Barrett running it from deep of turnovers (or from poor kicks) when Ireland start leaving holes or are overcommitted to the breakdown.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 10:55 am

Here's a question. To what extent would it be considered an upset if Ireland were to win?

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Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 10:57 am

LondonTiger wrote:
Taylorman wrote:True, they’re terrible starters. A game plan which requires splitting the opposition completely open from the start makes it somewhat more difficult. For me they have to run Ireland ragged from the start. Any which way they can.

I probably disagree. Much depends on the conditions, but I feel flinging the ball around from minute 1 is the best way to give Ireland a good foothold in this game. While the refs have started looking at the offside line with more scrutiny, Ireland will still e looking to pressure the kiwis with their blitz defence. If NZ play their more usual game of kicking the leather off the ball when nothing is on, almost rope-a-doping Ireland with Barrett running it from deep of turnovers (or from poor kicks) when Ireland start leaving holes or are overcommitted to the breakdown.

Looks like a high chance of fairly heavy rain. I think the a favourable ref will be key for Ireland. We dont do well with ones that are whistle happy and it would help to have one that has a less strict interpretation of the offside line than Gardner.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 10:58 am

Collapse2005 wrote:Here's a question. To what extent would it be considered an upset if Ireland were to win?

I would make this game 80-20 in favour of NZ.

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QF2 - Match Thread - New Zealand v Ireland - 19/10/19 - K/O 11:15 BST Empty Re: QF2 - Match Thread - New Zealand v Ireland - 19/10/19 - K/O 11:15 BST

Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 10:59 am

It would be quite an upset then?

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 11:00 am

I think it's about a 50 50. Some differing opinions!

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 11:00 am

Taylorman wrote:

ABs: create, or die.

Ireland: We want nothing to happen in the whole match, and score points as a by product of that.

Or something like that...

We all had minnows in our groups. Ireland 18 tries (8 forwards - 10 backs). 27 points against.

ABs: win or go home
Ireland: win or go home



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Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 11:01 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:I think it's about a 50 50. Some differing opinions!

Id say that's generous. 35-65 in my view.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 11:02 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:I think it's about a 50 50. Some differing opinions!

Even after Irelands win last Autumn, playing this game in Japan I would have had it 60-40 to NZ. Respective form has moved me from what is 3-2 to 4-1.

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Post by miaow on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 11:05 am

eirebilly wrote:I think even another gear may still be 2 gears under what the All Blacks can go.

Henshaw/Ringrose has to be the centre combo now.

Henrose/Ringshaw?

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Post by Old Man on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 11:07 am

I would suggest both Ireland and New Zealand would want a referee that is not too pedantic.

Both teams can stretch the breakdown law to the point where the space time continuum is lost in a black hole.

The irish tight heads love to bind illegally, the AB forward pods love to run interfering (blocking lines) for the back line.

I expect a lot of tactical kicking from both sides..

Will be watching this match with interest.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 11:07 am

Reason I've gone with that is still the packs. Rettalick is so important to them and currently a bit of question as to whether hes able to hit the ground running. Back row still has questions for me. Savea is great but not convinced with cane or reads form. Ireland will fancy taking them on.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 11:08 am

The Clash of the Cheats!

Good title, Old Man! Sell it to a tabloid.

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Post by BamBam on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 11:13 am

Well the bookies make NZ 12 point favourites - as a comparison, England are favoured by 8 points, Wales by 6 and SA by 15

Looking at that, I think it would definitely be considered an upset. The weather could be a great equaliser

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