QF2 - Match Thread - New Zealand v Ireland - 19/10/19 - K/O 11:15 BST

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Post by miaow on Thu 10 Oct 2019, 6:31 pm

First topic message reminder :

Thought I'd get these made nice and early for a few reasons - but one being that we're already now looking ahead to the QFs with several teams having finished their group stage, so it's all heating up for the proper knockout stuff...barring any more disruption.

NZ

QF2 - Match Thread - New Zealand v Ireland - 19/10/19 - K/O 11:15 BST - Page 12 1538347555208

Team: B Barrett; Reece, Goodhue, Lienert-Brown, Bridge; Mo'unga, Smith; Moody, Taylor, Laulala, Retallick, Whitelock; Savea, Cane, Reid.

Replacements: Coles, Tuungafasi, Ta'avao, S Barrett, Todd, Perenara, Williams, J Barrett.


Ireland

QF2 - Match Thread - New Zealand v Ireland - 19/10/19 - K/O 11:15 BST - Page 12 Irish-rugby-fans-1024x677

Team: Kearney; Earls, Ringrose, Henshaw, Stockdale; Sexton, Murray; Healy, Best, Furlong, Henderson, James Ryan, O'Mahony; Van der Flier, Stander.

Replacements: Scannell, Kilcoyne, Porter, Beirne, Ruddock, McGrath, Carbery, Larmour.



Venue: Tokyo
Referee: Nigel Owens
AR1: Pascal Gauzere
AR2: Angus Gardiner
TMO: Graham Hughes


Last edited by miaow on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 1:53 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 4:47 pm

Speak for yourself Ebop. Youre doing a great job of making a show of yourself.

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Post by ebop on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 5:02 pm

To be fair Guns, I’m more interested in England now, sayonara thumbsup
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 5:25 pm

I think it's a bit below the belt to deliberately rub it in. Is Muppet an allowable word?

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 5:25 pm

Apparently not!

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Post by westisbest on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 5:31 pm

Well done again to New Zealand. Totally outclassed us.
We weren't good enough and made to many silly mistakes.

Larmour looks like he good become a great player, only really silver lining in our World Cup.

New coach and players to come hopefully we will improve.
2019 was a poor year for the team.

Again we’ll done New Zealand.

England New Zealand should be a cracking game.

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Post by Galted on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 5:34 pm

westisbest wrote:Well done again to New Zealand. Totally outclassed us.
We weren't good enough and made to many silly mistakes.

Larmour looks like he good become a great player, only really silver lining in our World Cup.

New coach and players to come hopefully we will improve.
2019 was a poor year for the team.

Again we’ll done New Zealand.

England New Zealand should be a cracking game.

At least Targett made up for it.
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Post by ebop on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 5:39 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I thibk it's a but below the belt to deliberately rub it in. Is Muppet an allowable word?
Don’t mean to be rude 7.5, but can you please re-post this in English
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Post by Galted on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 5:41 pm

ebop wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I thibk it's a but below the belt to deliberately rub it in. Is Muppet an allowable word?
Don’t mean to be rude 7.5, but can you please re-post this in English

thibk = thick
but = bit
muppet = gloating anal bumhole
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Post by SecretFly on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 5:45 pm

westisbest wrote:

Larmour looks like he good become a great player, only really silver lining in our World Cup.


Yep. He was dropped in at the deep end playing a brand that really isn't his club version and into a team absolutely crawling in the gutter confidence/form wise for some reason. There was really no combative fight in Ireland until towards the end when the driving collisions actually became International standard and Carbery started throwing the ball around a bit. Too late of course against a side that was already in the dressing room celebrating, but a hint of better ways if some bloody coach finally realises that modern young players want to play loose.... up the middle collision, collision, collision kills their spirit.

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Post by ebop on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 5:48 pm

Galted wrote:
ebop wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I thibk it's a but below the belt to deliberately rub it in. Is Muppet an allowable word?
Don’t mean to be rude 7.5, but can you please re-post this in English

thibk = thick
but = bit
muppet = gloating anal bumhole
Is this a new ‘special’ language that you and 7.5 have? That’s really cute.
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Post by westisbest on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 5:49 pm

Galted wrote:
westisbest wrote:Well done again to New Zealand. Totally outclassed us.
We weren't good enough and made to many silly mistakes.

Larmour looks like he good become a great player, only really silver lining in our World Cup.

New coach and players to come hopefully we will improve.
2019 was a poor year for the team.

Again we’ll done New Zealand.

England New Zealand should be a cracking game.

At least Targett made up for it.

Yes galted. A small bit.

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Post by ebop on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 6:01 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I thibk it's a but below the belt to deliberately rub it in. Is Muppet an allowable word?
Seriously though, what the f**k is this? Lol
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Post by miaow on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 6:01 pm

Great game. Classic RWC match.

You have to wonder if Ireland got a foothold first half, weren't nilled - Sexton missing his kick was obvious. How different it might have been?

Possibly not that different.

Bit of a manshaming to effectively have 'your' game thrown back at you, done better and more effectively, with the dominance of possession and grinding 22 game done with more speed, more offloads, and more invetiveness.

The way NZ play is so 'simple' - I played a lot of basketball growing up and it totally helped my rugby, and I see the same sort of things I 'gained' from playing different ball games in the ABs. Just a really simple - yet effective and masterly - approach to valuing the ball, valuing possession, valuing passing accurately under pressure with limited space.

Schmidt's post match comments about the final 12 months. Seemed to accept they peaked too soon and failed to grow and adapt - think that's an interesting aside, it's not so much about declining, it's about the mentality/growth mindset that suffers when you're consolidating something rather than peaking. Hard to judge where Wales and England are in that cycle - possibly England better than Wales, who did look poor in the warm ups.

Anyway...

One big thing I feel is the difference - other than 'type' of fitness, and why the NH always struggles against the fast twitch and high tempo stamina the SH teams bring - is running angles.

NZ run hard, straight, slightly (ever so) diagonally, but by and large, it's straight, hard, true, and that holds defences. The beauty of NZ's attack is the support lines. It's tactical, yes, but it's also instinctive.

Ireland - and other NH teams, Wales included, less so England as we've seen under EJ - run far, far, FAR too sideways. It's all in front of the defence, it barely gets to the gainline, it's a case of just hands to a one out runner or one man carry. The only 'creative' stuff is giving it to the likes of Lamour and hoping he beats 2-3 mean and makes a line break. It's a completely different style of running rugby, and NZ have the essence of the game.

For me, only England look capable of putting the All Blacks on the back foot - SA don't seem to have the players or the fight England quite do - but fair play to Ireland for not losing heart. Some decent scores at the end, but outclassed today.

Harsh penalty on HT might have changed it - I thought they should have gone for the posts, honestly, to change it from a 4 score to 3 score game, not go in at 0 at HT, and have an outside shot at rebuilding. But it was a risk to go to the corner, and once it failed, it was pretty much game over.

All about backing that up now for the ABs against a team that's likely to have a more physical edge.

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Post by ebop on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 6:10 pm

Miaow, didn’t you pick Ireland to beat the ABs?
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Post by miaow on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 6:14 pm

Don't think I committed to a prediction other than in the score group, where I had a fairly hard fought NZ win.

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Post by ebop on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 6:22 pm

Fair dues, have to say, you write a lot of words miaow but you hit the mark
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Post by Taylorman on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 6:23 pm

That’s what the ABs are here for, to back up...back up the 2011 and 2015 wins. This has similarities with the quarters in 2015 where, by now, you will find that the ABs are going to be too strong for any second pool qualifier. Last time it was a France, this time Ireland. Any non pool topper would have had similar result.

Same with Ireland. In 2015 they went into half time ‘knowing’ they were out. That happened again here, for as we know, they’re not great at chasing a deficit, and 29 vs that AB side was never going to happen.

I did say history has a way of repeating and that was a carbon copy almost of 2015, for both sides. Ireland’s results this year were not convincing and it showed when up against a side that knew exactly how to expose that. History repeating.

NZ will be up for it next week, because that’s what they’re here for.

England were fairly impressive, and I’m starting to think next weeks semi represents this tourneys best two sides. Tonight will be interesting.

On Larmour he’s quite a talent. looked classy in a struggling side. Hopefully Ireland move to a less negative style so he can flourish more. Big future for that one.

Matt Todds very original post blocking move was the funniest cynical play Ive seen for a while. Not nice but just shows how switched on their thinking was to come up with that in a split second. Hilarious.

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Post by miaow on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 6:40 pm

eirebilly wrote:Ireland need to stop asking Owens for penalties at every breakdown and focus on the game. Owens will get annoyed and give Ireland nothing.

Thought Nigel was exceptional today - he gets a lot of stick, but for a man who openly admits he is in a constant battle with bulimia, coming to the end of his career, he was magnificent.

He also gave the Irish a lot of leeway for back chat - some good empathy with the situation. Used the TMO perfectly - wasn't hurried by the ABs, wasn't allowing Ireland to run the clock down, either.

Played his part today and don't think he got a single decision wrong, and handled a tricky game very well. Irish frustration was directed at him when they were getting literally nothing from their sporting efforts - not want you want to see, tbh, but he understood and dealt with it well.

Masterful refereeing. Will be sad to see it gone.

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Post by The Great Aukster on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 6:42 pm

Taylorman wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Congratulations to the All Blacks, the most comprehensive win over Ireland ever. Ireland had a semblance of parity in the set piece but were totally outplayed everywhere else. Too many Irish players looked past it and I don't include Best in that who left every last bit of his rugby on the pitch and the send off from the crowd was testament to him being a world class individual.

Schmidt too showed what a world class coach he has been for Ireland. He took Ireland to new heights and forced New Zealand to rethink their strategy against them. His problem was that this team is past it's sell by date and there simply aren't the players in Ireland to sustain the standard he managed to take them to.

Thanks also to Steve Hansen who was gracious in victory (unlike some fans on this forum).

Most comprehensive? Nope. 60 nil a few years ago.
Thanks Aukster, been a pleasure thumbsup

A dead rubber against a knackered team? You've been decrying the Ireland victories in 2016 and 18 because the ABs were at the end of their season so I should expect that inconsistency by now. This victory was far more important and comprehensive (irrespective of the scoreline), but being graceless in victory is something everyone has come to expect from the NZ fans on this forum - your team and players really deserve better.

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Post by Old Man on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 6:43 pm

I am pretty sure England will be up for it too, they are here for the same trophy.

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Post by miaow on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 6:49 pm

tigertattie wrote:
BigGee wrote:
tigertattie wrote:
BigGee wrote:That was a fairly haunting close up of Schmidt there, could not have imagined this kind of performance

What does he do now? Call it a day and live his life away from the pressures of rugby or does he find a new challenge to focus on rather than going out with a whimper?

He could take the Scotland job if Toonie gets binned!

Nah. He’s off home to at least coach closer to his family.

Scotland should take him in a heartbeat. Ironically he’d be great for us and Toonie would be great (as a backs coach) for Ireland

100% agree. Not even joking. If you can make this switch - make it.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 6:55 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Congratulations to the All Blacks, the most comprehensive win over Ireland ever. Ireland had a semblance of parity in the set piece but were totally outplayed everywhere else. Too many Irish players looked past it and I don't include Best in that who left every last bit of his rugby on the pitch and the send off from the crowd was testament to him being a world class individual.

Schmidt too showed what a world class coach he has been for Ireland. He took Ireland to new heights and forced New Zealand to rethink their strategy against them. His problem was that this team is past it's sell by date and there simply aren't the players in Ireland to sustain the standard he managed to take them to.

Thanks also to Steve Hansen who was gracious in victory (unlike some fans on this forum).

Most comprehensive? Nope. 60 nil a few years ago.
Thanks Aukster, been a pleasure thumbsup

A dead rubber against a knackered team? You've been decrying the Ireland victories in 2016 and 18 because the ABs were at the end of their season so I should expect that inconsistency by now. This victory was far more important and comprehensive (irrespective of the scoreline), but being graceless in victory is something everyone has come to expect from the NZ fans on this forum - your team and players really deserve better.

Who’s being graceless? Me? How so Aukster. Get over yourself. My appraisal of the win has been fair, especially after being told by all and sundry for a week how poor this AB side is, how much better Ireland are than 2015 etc etc. The analysis quality of this game on this site has been poor in terms of this match. I’ve said over and over the ABs know how to win these matches, how to extract revenge from what was it...two out of the last three being hammered relentlessly.

This was no surprise to me even if one gets naturally nervous beforehand. Said this would be like the Perth Eden park, the Chicago Dublin reversal. But nope, no consideration of that here whatsoever.

Over your graceless victory innuendo. Learn how to analyse the game before you start handing out bricks afterwards. Few on this site had any idea of what was coming even though the ABs have done this time and time again.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 6:55 pm

Its merely saying ebop is it too much to ask not being a deliberate arse to other posters.

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Post by miaow on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 7:00 pm

Proof will be in the next game - and possibly the one after that - whether NZ are better than in 2015. Obviously had a week off to rest up, but any team can 'get up' for one game. As said, NZ threw their own game back at them - I said it last week, Oz did the same when they beat NZ, Wales did it against England in the 6Ns with their kicking game.

It seems to be a 'thing' now in rugby. If NZ keep those standards up I'd be amazed. They have the skills, but to reprodue that dominance? Only then can you put them on par with the NZ team, or above.

For me, Ireland were still on par (which is what I argued) or a touch better than their 2015 side. That performance was no worse than they would have produced 4 years ago.

All pointless. Too much petty, personal point scoring on the forum - still. Let's just enjoy the rugby, and accept the Irish fans will be gutted, and possibly reeling a bit, from that hammering - although there were signs in the last 12 months that this might have been coming for Ireland.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 7:26 pm

Yeah I don’t think this side ‘could be’ considered better than 2015, not because of the results, but because of the players in the side. We had a handful of players who would be considered our best of all time, certainly two were.

But in terms of maintaining the standards of the Irish match it’s possible they could be even better than that. This side is a very raw side in terms of potential. Guys like Reece, Bridge, Goodhue, Scott Barrett, Mo’unga, have only just started playing test rugby. They are now thriving.

They might not beat England by the same score line but they’ll very likely improve on this performance as a side. They’ll be better for it vs England after four weeks since any genuine competition prior to this match.

Key to the ABs is they know how to prioritise. The near faultless performance they put on France in 2015 mirrored this very similarly. A lethal execution of the basics at pace and with accuracy, with a wide array of attacking options.

England are without a doubt tougher, but they are going to have to be at their very best next week because the ABs are now ready and firing. That win has validated where they’re at.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 7:32 pm

We can discuss next week where either team were at in how good they were. A wum doesnt mean either were at their best. A lot can happen in 80 mins obviously. I think it's about 60 40 in englands favour.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 7:39 pm

Next week is 60 40 in England’s favour? You’re saying the bookies...you know, those who think with their wallets will have them at that? Right now the power rankings are ABs at 61/39, so not sure who’s doing the wumming here.


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Post by The Great Aukster on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 7:41 pm

miaow wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Ireland need to stop asking Owens for penalties at every breakdown and focus on the game. Owens will get annoyed and give Ireland nothing.

Thought Nigel was exceptional today - he gets a lot of stick, but for a man who openly admits he is in a constant battle with bulimia, coming to the end of his career, he was magnificent.

He also gave the Irish a lot of leeway for back chat - some good empathy with the situation. Used the TMO perfectly - wasn't hurried by the ABs, wasn't allowing Ireland to run the clock down, either.

Played his part today and don't think he got a single decision wrong, and handled a tricky  game very well. Irish frustration was directed at him when they were getting literally nothing from their sporting efforts - not want you want to see, tbh, but he understood and dealt with it well.

Masterful refereeing. Will be sad to see it gone.
Agree that Owens has the best empathy for the game in playing the spirit of the Law rather than the letter. He will be missed but he was far enough from flawless to potentially rule him out of any further games in this tournament. That said the result would have been the same anyway, and given the general standard of his colleagues he is still in with a shout.

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Post by The Great Aukster on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 7:43 pm

Taylorman wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Congratulations to the All Blacks, the most comprehensive win over Ireland ever. Ireland had a semblance of parity in the set piece but were totally outplayed everywhere else. Too many Irish players looked past it and I don't include Best in that who left every last bit of his rugby on the pitch and the send off from the crowd was testament to him being a world class individual.

Schmidt too showed what a world class coach he has been for Ireland. He took Ireland to new heights and forced New Zealand to rethink their strategy against them. His problem was that this team is past it's sell by date and there simply aren't the players in Ireland to sustain the standard he managed to take them to.

Thanks also to Steve Hansen who was gracious in victory (unlike some fans on this forum).

Most comprehensive? Nope. 60 nil a few years ago.
Thanks Aukster, been a pleasure thumbsup

A dead rubber against a knackered team? You've been decrying the Ireland victories in 2016 and 18 because the ABs were at the end of their season so I should expect that inconsistency by now. This victory was far more important and comprehensive (irrespective of the scoreline), but being graceless in victory is something everyone has come to expect from the NZ fans on this forum - your team and players really deserve better.

Who’s being graceless? Me? How so Aukster. Get over yourself. My appraisal of the win has been fair, especially after being told by all and sundry for a week how poor this AB side is, how much better Ireland are than 2015 etc etc. The analysis quality of this game on this site has been poor in terms of this match. I’ve said over and over the ABs know how to win these matches, how to extract revenge from what was it...two out of the last three being hammered relentlessly.

This was no surprise to me even if one gets naturally nervous beforehand. Said this would be like the Perth Eden park, the Chicago Dublin reversal. But nope, no consideration of that here whatsoever.

Over your graceless victory innuendo. Learn how to analyse the game before you start handing out bricks afterwards. Few on this site had any idea of what was coming even though the ABs have done this time and time again.
Thanks Tman, been a pleasure thumbsup

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 7:47 pm

Thought he got the very first decision of the day wrong. He called a knock on from Reece when replays show Reece didn’t touch the ball, and from that I think a Retallick was scooting off for a try or near try while Owens hand was out for advantage, the very first minute at kick off.

Other than that went well. Thought he seemed to favour the ABs slightly but that may have been because just about everything was going their way anyway.

On that he’s still up to ‘defend’ his title...reffing the final again.


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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 7:47 pm

That's my view taylor the bookies view taylor. Sorry if I mislead you there. Always presume it's my thought rather that someone else's unless stated.


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Post by Duty281 on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 7:49 pm

Tasty odds of 13/5 on England to beat the Kiwis. Do make the English the outsiders, but not by that much. Just a shame that this game is a semi-final and not the actual final.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 7:52 pm

Fair enough. Personally I think it’s 50/50, mainly because Jones and his Mitchell sidekick know the AB psyche better than Schmidt does having either plotted their downfall or coached them in world cups.

They’ll have more ideas about how to blunt the AB attack, more devious ones. And England looked like they’ll improve with the run after missing the last pool match as we did.

Going to be a cracker!


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Post by eirebilly on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 8:12 pm

A lot of people saying Ireland looked poor, yes they did look poor but it is easy to look that bad whilst being completely dominated in every aspect of the game. Great sides (and the All Blacks are a great side) put so much pressure on other teams.

I would say that the win is more down to the AB's being the much better coached, more experienced in hig pressure games and more confident in this environment.
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Post by Taylorman on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 8:13 pm

I do wonder how O’Sullivan is feeling this morning...

. “That’s a strong New Zealand backline but it’s not the perfect backline. I’m really happy about Barrett being at 15 because I don’t think he’s going to get his hands on the ball as much. I don’t think he gets his hands on the ball as much when he’s at 15. It’s practically impossible to bring him into the game as much as Richie Mo’unga will be. Joe’s got a very predictable, very solid, very experienced XV, compared to the All Blacks XV which is not as experienced and I would say not quite as solid. Richie Mo’unga has not a great kicking game. He’s not as astute at exploiting (the space) in the back field. That’s good for us. Especially, if it’s wet. It’s another weakness. It’s hard to believe we’re talking about All Black weaknesses. When you compare them to Sexton, if it comes down to a drop goal or a late penalty in a one-score game, that gives us an edge there’

Sorry, but that deserves to be repeated. No idea. If you’re going to come out publicly with garbage, you should be around to collect it.


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Post by miaow on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 8:13 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:
miaow wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Ireland need to stop asking Owens for penalties at every breakdown and focus on the game. Owens will get annoyed and give Ireland nothing.

Thought Nigel was exceptional today - he gets a lot of stick, but for a man who openly admits he is in a constant battle with bulimia, coming to the end of his career, he was magnificent.

He also gave the Irish a lot of leeway for back chat - some good empathy with the situation. Used the TMO perfectly - wasn't hurried by the ABs, wasn't allowing Ireland to run the clock down, either.

Played his part today and don't think he got a single decision wrong, and handled a tricky  game very well. Irish frustration was directed at him when they were getting literally nothing from their sporting efforts - not want you want to see, tbh, but he understood and dealt with it well.

Masterful refereeing. Will be sad to see it gone.
Agree that Owens has the best empathy for the game in playing the spirit of the Law rather than the letter. He will be missed but he was far enough from flawless to potentially rule him out of any further games in this tournament. That said the result would have been the same anyway, and given the general standard of his colleagues he is still in with a shout.

I'd be intrigued to hear what you thought he got wrong? From watching, I honestly can think of nothing. The degree of understanding of the process of things - like the Retallick penalty, where the Irish player conceded/killed the ball, yet clearly Retallick had failed to release from his 'latch', so was the first infringement - is really only 'matched' or come close to by Barnes. Empathy aside, he showed a wonderful technical display out there - so I cannot think of anything he got wrong, and that's as a neutral watching the game, not someone invested in either side winning.

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Post by miaow on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 8:14 pm

Taylorman wrote:Thought he got the very first decision of the day wrong. He called a knock on from Reece when replays show Reece didn’t touch the ball, and from that I think a Retallick was scooting off for a try or near try while Owens hand was out for advantage, the very first minute at kick off.

Yeah that was possibly one that needed looking at, looked like a knock on but not clear on the replays. Personally think he was very fair, no favouritism either way. Cleared up the law about not playing the 9 well as well, to Murray's surprise.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 8:15 pm

No, but Owens is Welsh, hardly neutral. Hug

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 8:16 pm

miaow wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Thought he got the very first decision of the day wrong. He called a knock on from Reece when replays show Reece didn’t touch the ball, and from that I think a Retallick was scooting off for a try or near try while Owens hand was out for advantage, the very first minute at kick off.

Yeah that was possibly one that needed looking at, looked like a knock on but not clear on the replays. Personally think he was very fair, no favouritism either way. Cleared up the law about not playing the 9 well as well, to Murray's surprise.

Yes it’s good to be talking about the rugby rather than the ref...oh wait...

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Post by miaow on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 8:18 pm

Taylorman wrote:No, but Owens is Welsh, hardly neutral. Hug

Yeah but I don't 'support' a referee like were going to 'support' any Kiwi-coached team if the ABs lost, apparently. That's more than a bit sad. As a neutral, and therefore disinvested in 'supporting' the game going a certain way, or a team getting a marginal call their way every time, I thought it was a brilliant and fair refereeing performance.

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Post by SecretFly on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 8:27 pm

Okay.  We blame Joe.  He's head man, he must take the hit.

But interesting that you say badly coached, eirebilly.

So, will we allow other coaches off the hook?  
Has Farrell been good enough with defence?  
Has our kicking coach been good enough? We tend to leave a lot of points behind us on conversions and penalties - being more clinically tough on our kick success ratios would have undoubtedly made games easier for us and perhaps at times widened the gap on the score sheets enough to discourage fight backs.
Has our Strength & Conditioning guy been good enough?  Despite or probably because of the game we play, we've proved quite a brittle team with injury lay offs?  Has our conditioning really been suitable to the rugby Joe coached?

Back to the question I asked about Farrell.  Has he been allowed pick the coaches he wants or do IRFU impose some of them.  Had Joe ever really the full backup team he'd have wanted?  Maybe he did.  Maybe he didn't. I don't know, but I know it takes a supreme outfit of coaches to get full bang for buck from a team

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 8:28 pm

...so you say... thumbsup

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Post by ebop on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 8:29 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Congratulations to the All Blacks, the most comprehensive win over Ireland ever. Ireland had a semblance of parity in the set piece but were totally outplayed everywhere else. Too many Irish players looked past it and I don't include Best in that who left every last bit of his rugby on the pitch and the send off from the crowd was testament to him being a world class individual.

Schmidt too showed what a world class coach he has been for Ireland. He took Ireland to new heights and forced New Zealand to rethink their strategy against them. His problem was that this team is past it's sell by date and there simply aren't the players in Ireland to sustain the standard he managed to take them to.

Thanks also to Steve Hansen who was gracious in victory (unlike some fans on this forum).

Most comprehensive? Nope. 60 nil a few years ago.
Thanks Aukster, been a pleasure thumbsup

A dead rubber against a knackered team? You've been decrying the Ireland victories in 2016 and 18 because the ABs were at the end of their season so I should expect that inconsistency by now. This victory was far more important and comprehensive (irrespective of the scoreline), but being graceless in victory is something everyone has come to expect from the NZ fans on this forum - your team and players really deserve better.
Sounds like sour grapes imo
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Post by Old Man on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 8:33 pm

SecretFly wrote:Okay.  We blame Joe.  He's head man, he must take the hit.

But interesting that you say badly coached, eirebilly.

So, will we allow other coaches off the hook?  
Has Farrell been good enough with defence?  
Has our kicking coach been good enough? We tend to leave a lot of points behind us on conversions and penalties - being more clinically tough on our kick success ratios would have undoubtedly made games easier for us and perhaps at times widened the gap on the score sheets enough to discourage fight backs.
Has our Strength & Conditioning guy been good enough?  Despite or probably because of the game we play, we've proved quite a brittle team with injury lay offs?  Has our conditioning really been suitable to the rugby Joe coached?

Back to the question I asked about Farrell.  Has he been allowed pick the coaches he wants or do IRFU impose some of them.  Had Joe ever really the full backup team he'd have wanted?  Maybe he did.  Maybe he didn't.  I don't know, but I know it takes a supreme outfit of coaches to get full bang for buck from a team

A class coach like Schmidt doesn’t just become a bad coach overnight.

I think he did a brilliant job getting Ireland to being a consistently performing team, so much so that he got them to number 1.

No other Irish coach has even come close. I don’t know his win rate off hand, but I doubt any other Irish coach have close to his win rate.

Sometimes teams go over that edge where they go off that peak, no team can realistically sustain that peak, even the AB’s have dips (arguably very small short term dips)

I think the RWC came one year too late for Ireland.

Sexton, Murray as examples were no where near their best today.

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Post by Pie on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 8:34 pm

Taylorman wrote:No, but Owens is Welsh, hardly neutral. Hug

you are such a prat

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Post by eirebilly on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 8:37 pm

I did not say Ireland were badly coached Fly. I said that New Zealand were better coached...

At least quote me correctly brother thumbsup
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Post by Taylorman on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 9:08 pm

Pie wrote:
Taylorman wrote:No, but Owens is Welsh, hardly neutral. Hug

you are such a prat

Aww, nervous bout the game tonight uh? I get it.

Allez France! thumbsup

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Post by SecretFly on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 9:11 pm

eirebilly wrote:I did not say Ireland were badly coached Fly. I said that New Zealand were better coached...

At least quote me correctly brother thumbsup

I didn't quote you, Billy. I interpreted you. Cool

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Post by eirebilly on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 9:13 pm

SecretFly wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I did not say Ireland were badly coached Fly. I said that New Zealand were better coached...

At least quote me correctly brother thumbsup

I didn't quote you, Billy.  I interpreted you. Cool

Exactly, quote me correctly or request further clarification prior to interpretation. Makes for better communication don't you think? thumbsup
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Post by Taylorman on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 9:17 pm

eirebilly wrote:I did not say Ireland were badly coached Fly. I said that New Zealand were better coached...

At least quote me correctly brother thumbsup

It’s an interesting one. Would Hansen have coached Ireland to a Schmidt coached NZ and got a better result?

It’s difficult to clearly separate where coaching as a reason for success starts and paying resources available ends.

Heard an Irish writer- helped bring cyclist Armstrong down? the other day say say Schmidt was the single most influential person in the history of Irish rugby in terms of results...or similar.

Hansen has found success the long way, through years of lessons from overseas positions, and as assistant to Henry.

It’s taken him that long to find his own unique style and his legacy will be primarily be about backing potential, and this match had that written all over him.

Schmidt got there through a much tougher path, so has probably got a lot of skills that Hansen probably hasn’t needed as much.

Both very good coaches, just...different.

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