Scotland post mortem

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:49 pm

First topic message reminder :

So we're oot.

Question is... what now?

Do we think toonie will stay? If he does take the can which seems quite likely then who do we get to replace him?

I think this has to be the end of a few players too. We can't keep picking people on past form.
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Post by Shifty on Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:55 pm

Scotland post mortem

^ This title. I never get tired of seeing it.

The Scottish Rugby cycle:

1) Put Andy Nicol on TV to talk up Scottish chances

2) Scotland rugby teams falls flat on it's face.

3) Scotland post mortem thread on 606V2

4) sub catagory:
i) Did Scotland play attractive rugby and score tries, but conceede even more? If so see section 5.
or
ii) Did Scotland play dour boring rugby and conceede more points than they scored? If so see section 5.

5) Blame coach, and sack

6) Return to section 1.
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Post by tigertattie on Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:05 pm

Do we just concede that as a nation we’re just knickers and stop caring?
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Post by 123456789. on Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:09 pm

Shifty wrote:Scotland post mortem

^ This title. I never get tired of seeing it.

The Scottish Rugby cycle:

1) Put Andy Nicol on TV to talk up Scottish chances

2) Scotland rugby teams falls flat on it's face.

3) Scotland post mortem thread on 606V2

4) sub catagory:
i) Did Scotland play attractive rugby and score tries, but conceede even more?  If so see section 5.
or
ii) Did Scotland play dour boring rugby and conceede more points than they scored? If so see section 5.

5) Blame coach, and sack

6) Return to section 1.

Seems bizarre that you're perturbed by people discussing what went wrong on a rugby forum?

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Post by Shifty on Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:16 pm

tigertattie wrote:Do we just concede that as a nation we’re just knickers and stop caring?

No, what you do is take all those talented young players that constantly go to waste from your Scotland U20 team and give them a chance at a professional career, some will fail, others will suceed. but at least they will have a chance to find their correct level.

With Wales and Ireland every U20 internatonal has a chance at a province or region. With Scotland they have no where to go, and drift out of the game. Scotland needs to find a way to get Caledonia or / and Borders back into professonal rugby, make oppertunities for these young players, so your talent pool grows. Glasgow and Edinburgh are NOT enough to make Scotland successful. Scotland has been weeing against the wind since 1999 and at some point they need to wake up and fix it. Your not a bad rugby country, but your shooting yourself in the foot for no reason.
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Post by LondonTiger on Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:33 pm

Based on the last few seasons, the bulk of the U20s do not warrant professional careers.

Before creating a Pathway to the pro game for 20 year old players, SRU needs to sort out the development of U18s through to the U20s

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Post by Shifty on Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:38 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Based on the last few seasons, the bulk of the U20s do not warrant professional careers.

Before creating a Pathway to the pro game for 20 year old players, SRU needs to sort out the development of U18s through to the U20s

To be fair the 2019 Scottish U20 team have been cack to say the least, but even the Welsh team that lost 92-0 to New Zealand all had chance to develop a career in professional rugby. Scottish rugby is now out of debt according to their latest accounts, so really they need to look at creating a new team for these young lads to develop.
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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:11 am

Scottish rugby has a myriad of problems. That's not to say we don't have good players and should be doing better. I think the concerns over Toonie are legitimate but it's only really been me and a few others who have been calling for his immediate sacking. Others have been more balanced and less angry. Either way we all agree that our current crop should be doing better with their collective talent. Our U20s have been crap but lineen and munro are going to hopefully sort things out there. It's worth baring in mind we also had an excellent u18s. These things aren't as consistent for any nation as the senior side seeing as the churn is annual.

A third pro team isn't really an option right now as Edinburgh need to be sorted with a stadium first and Glasgow need to keep up the numbers. There's too much borders tribalism to justify reintroduction of a borders team and not enough interest in the highlands. Our best bet would be an ex-pat team playing in the pro14 like london scottish. Even then LS are utter gash and nowhere near the required quality.
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Post by 123456789. on Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:54 am

I think the point on the pathway is spot on. By my reckoning nineteen out of our thirty-one players in the world cup squad came through our system, nine out of the fifteen against Japan came through our system. I think the system for players coming through has to be shaken up rapidly. At loosehead, for example, by 2021 I would expect it to be a three way battle between Schoeman, Dell and Kebble. Three very, very good South African players. We need to ween ourselves off project players. It's a difficult one to an extent, as a small nation people have moved from Scotland for a variety of reasons for hundreds of years and maintain a strong sense of identity. I know that as well as anyone, I've lived in England almost my entire life. I speak with a southern English accent. Had I been anywhere near good enough and received a call from England and Scotland. I would have chosen Scotland every day of the week and twice on a Sunday. So I don't think we'll ever see a situation where New Zealanders with Scottish Grannies come over to play, nor would I want that to stop. However I'd like to see us move to a place where the vast, vast majority of our players are coming up through the system and those qualified on residency are competing because they are genuinely very, very good rather than having a deliberate policy of "signing" players for the Scotland team.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:30 am

Purchase a majority stake in the highlanders? At least it's a scottish name 😂 then just hunt around for kilted kiwis
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Post by tigertattie on Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:37 am

Think it was Massie who has written about the need for another pro team and folk are back on that bandwagon.

Put simply we do not have the funding nor the interest for a third pro team. The only place it could have worked were the borders and because boab doesn’t like tam, tam doesn’t like Hamish and Hamish doesn’t like boab, the borders ruined their chance of getting a pro team at least for the next 50 years (if the borders ever get out of the 1800s)

A pro team would need to be in Dundee and cover Perth up to Aberdeen. Again though the issue with that is you have different areas making a club difficult to get an identity.

Unfortunately rugby is a minority sport in Scotland. How we get around that is the million dollar question. I’ve known boys who were absolute athletes waste their physical attributes trying to make it in football (most unsuccessfully). Many of these boys would never dare try rugby because their families would scoff that it’s a posh boy sport and if you start to play it you’ll become a hooray Henry and end up with folk peeing on you in the changing rooms.

Club rugby (because there is no money in it) is still amateurish. Until clubs adapt and change to become a pathway for players then we’ll struggle to bring youth on.

I’ll give you a prime example which I’m sure I’ve talked about on here before. I’ve also played social rugby. I had no interest in hitting the gym and being the best player I could be. I just enjoyed playing. But so many boys a grew up with really wanted to play as high a lvl as they could. One boy at the club would have been an honest to god great player for Scotland (he was better than the muck we had in the 00s with Morrison, Southwell, di rollo etc). He wanted to move to a prem club but everyone at the club didn’t want him to move on. Only the coach at the time told him to go for it but all his mates said to stay so he did. Waste of talent.

I’ve seen other boys try to make the move up and they get ostracised by many in the club for “daring to turn their back on the club”

It’s a catch 22. You need the clubs to develop the players but they hold onto talent with an iron fist for fear of another club getting hold of them.

Now if a little community club we’re to receive some form of transfer payment from the bigger clubs then you’d soon find clubs will be happy to find the balance between keeping talent and getting money for letting it move on.

Hopefully the super 6 starts to make this idea a reality but I’m not holding my breath.
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Post by BigGee on Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:16 am

To be fair Tattie, that is not just a problem in Scotland. There is a whole layer of untapped talent at club level across the whole of the UK.

Rugby in England is as dependant on top schools channelling players towards the club academies as we are, they are just better at it as they have a much beiger pool to choose from.

I played club rugby many years ago now, but there were always really good players in club teams, who never really fancied moving away from home comforts, or just liked being a big fish in a small pool. Talent alone does not get you to the top of the tree, you have got to have an individual mind set as well.

One thing about the private schools is that at least these days they do actively look for talented players and bring them into their systems. Fagerson (Z&M), SHC, Ritchie, Dobie and others have all come through that route.

In wales, the best talent these days often heads off to English private schools an in Ireland the system is also very orientated around the Dublin private schools.

It is a rugby problem in general, not just in Scotland.

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Post by George Carlin on Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:04 pm

123456789. wrote:I think we need to start from scratch in the Scotland midfield. We still have very good options but they all seem to go out of form at the same time.

Taylor obviously was not match fit. I don't think he should be written off though. He is obviously a very good player and if he can get going again then I'd be more than happy for him to return to the fold. I'd put Alex Dunbar, Matt Scott and Mark Bennett in that category as well. Dunbar seems to have nailed a place down at Brive. He was always a decent anchor in the midfield, a good defender and great over the ball. I do suspect it was his size that sucked defenders in and allowed the space outside for Hogg and Jones to play in. He is a terrible distributor though and has no kicking game to speak of. Still he's not a bad option to have. Matt Scott is another player who has never fulfilled his potential. As a former 10 he should have the distribution skills and you can't say he's not big enough. There are question marks over his defence and always have been. Bennett was a quality operator, struck down by Jones rapid ascent and then injury. This time four years ago he won some award as the breakthrough player in world rugby. These four players once seemed a breath of fresh air after the Lamont-Morrison era. They're all still relatively young and shouldn't be ruled out.

Then there's the likes of Pete Horne, Sam Johnson, Huw Jones and Chris Harris who have burst into the hole left by the problems of injury/ form of the four above (I know there was some overlap but roughly speaking). Both have blown hot and cold. Horne has moment of brilliance and moments of insanity. Like Scotland in recent times it's been heavily weighted toward the latter. Did not seems wise to mouth off in the paper that he's a very good player, I'd have preferred him to do his talking on the pitch. Sam Johnson was heralded as the answer to the inside centre problem. To an extent he was but it's worrying that he's never entirely clicked with Finn Russell or any of the outside centre. Chris Harris is "solid" in defence but I think he is the weakest of our centre options. He doesn't have Bennett or Jones' eye for a gap nor Hutchinson's skill as a footballer. A sort of Jack of all trades master of none when it comes to outside-centre play. If any are to be phased out entirely it should be Harris. Lastly there's Jones, 20172018 Huw Jones is the best Scottish outside centre this century by a mile. 2019 Huw Jones is in the Marcus Di Rollo society of Scottish centres. If he can get his mojo back he'd be the first name on the team sheet. I've not seen much of Glasgow this season but his mojo seems AWOL. I don't think him and Rennie click together, so perhaps we won't see the best of Jones again until one of them leaves Glasgow.

Then there's the new generation. Hutchinson, Steyn and McDowall. Hutchinson seems quality to me and his non-selection was criminal. Steyn is brilliant but perhaps needs a bit more time before he plays at international level. He seemed a bit overwhelmed in the Pro14 final if I recall correctly. It's just a matter of time before McDowall get's in at 12, he seems to be ha slight upgrade on the player Dunbar was before his acl rupture. The two Edinburgh lads, Dean and Johnstone seem a wee bit behind the rest but by no means bad players, probably not international standard.

By my reckoning there are 13 Scottish centres currently fit and playing rugby. None of whom are in the imminent retirement age bracket. Personally if all were fit and available I'd like to see Hutchinson and Jones play together. As a former playmaker he could take some of the load from Russell and is intelligent enough to find space for Hogg and Jones despite his lack of obvious bulk.

Yes, I would like to talk about this (above) rather than pulling on another hair shirt about why the schools don't funnel properly to the clubs and why the clubs don't funnel competitively through to the franchises. We have neither England's money nor Ireland's infrastructure, school system and organisation. We know. We know. We get it. No need to tell Scotland fans on these boards what is wrong. We know.

We now see to be as well stacked for decent centre options than we have been for 15 years. I instinctively want to say that we just don't have settled combinations. What nags at the back of my mind is the realisation that whilst we might have very good options, none of them may be world class.

Alex Dunbar, Matt Scott and Mark Bennett - still need to fight their way back to test places. Dunbar's side are comfortably mid table in the Top 14 which means that he's not fully visible week to week. Scott and Bennett need a full season without any more horrendous injuries and need to hit form which endures for months at a time. They both should do it, but let's see. Both still fairly young.

Pete Horne, Sam Johnson, Huw Jones and Chris Harris - Horne is categorically knickers and every time I see him I want to pick him up and shake him until all the points he's conceded by throwing intercept passes at test level fall out. He does nothing as well as anybody. He is a Toyota Corolla. Everything might work but I really don't want one. Samwise looks the most nailed on at the moment and we should start by building a centre combination around him at 12. St Shug has become the whipping boy for the woke discussion board keyboard warriors who would indicate that he has suddenly become as immobile as a runaway sofa - the paradigm of familiarity breeding contempt. He is nowhere near as bad as he is being portrayed and I hope that he gets back to form sharpish so that the Received Wisdom Cowboys can shut the fork up. Chris Harris is slightly less exciting then gluten-free flapjacks and whilst he has delivered more than I expected, I get sad when I think of him in a Scotland shirt just because he's 'solid', 'dependable' or any other adjective which just means 'average'.

Hutchinson, Steyn and McDowall - Hutchinson would be my first choice to partner Samwise at 13 in the 6N. Prem Young Player of the Season and he has already started this season like a beast. What more does he need to do, exactly? Seaman and the Staff just need to keep doing what they're doing and if they can show some form then a bench place against Italy really should be theirs.
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Post by George Carlin on Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:06 pm

I should have added that the thing I dislike most about Toonie is his constant need to pick from his stable of favourites regardless of whether they or not they have a limb hanging off. What the RWC has shown us get again is that form matters. Teams don't have weeks and weeks to get up to speed. Players that are playing well for their clubs are massively more likely to play well at test level. This is shown time and time again.

This means that Horne will keep being chosen for reasons that surpass all reasonable understanding.
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Post by EWT Spoons on Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:44 pm

Been away for a few days so missed a lot of the conversations here, but just to throw my tuppence in;

- From the chat a few pages back about not sacking Gatland should he have a poor WC.  That is entirely different, considering Gatland has won stuff with Wales (and quite a lot at that).  So you can’t really compare folk wanting rid of Toonie with a hypothetical situation with an incredibly successful coach.

- Toonie’s record - Yes on paper it’s better than any other Scotland coach, but as Tom English’s article points out, his record in competitive games isn’t great.  It’s all very well winning ‘friendly’ games, but it means nothing if we get horsed in the 6n and WC.  If you look at Gatland’s record with Wales, he blatantly doesn’t give a toss about the November tests, or summer tours (despite still doing fairly well in them) it’s all about silverware and he’s shown repeatedly this approach works.  I’m not saying we write them off, but we need to take Toonie’s record in context.

- On replacing coaches etc, it was flagged (somewhere) most nations have a attack, defence, etc etc coach, whereas Scotland has Toonie as both attack and head coach, and this could be the issue we have around defence.  In theory, head coaches will take feedback/advice from attack/defence (etc) coaches and create a gameplan on the back of that, however Toonie has his attacking plan and is more likely to try and shoehorn defence into it, which doesn’t necessarily work.

- New head coach;
Cotter - he’s not coming back, as much as I’d like him to, he’s too expensive, and was treated badly by the SRU last time.  He comes across as a fairly proud man, so why go back somewhere where you were treated badly.
Robertson - He’d be my pick, but he wants the NZ job, and even if he doesn’t get it this time round, he’s probably better placed to get it staying where he is, or going for the Ireland job (assuming I’ve not missed an announcement), rather than risking his rep by coming to Scotland.
Cockerill - I don’t think he’s suited to International coaching, also he’s still got work to do to prove himself (at Edinburgh) after a good season and a fairly poor season.
Rennie - I would be amazed if he’s doesn’t get the Oz job.  He’s said he wants to move closer to home and whilst it’s still a fair journey it’s a lot closer than Scotland.
Eddie Jones - nope
Gatland - Won’t take it
For lack of a better option, I’d stick with Toonie, but bring in a new attack coach and let him focus on being a head coach.

- Midfield partnership - During the WC we seemed to bypass the midfield quite a bit, not sure if that was because Finn didn’t trust those inside him, or if there was some other reason for it.  Either way, Bennett has started well this season (early days) and if he can keep it up, he could be a real shout to come back into that midfield.  If Scott can get fit again and provide a solid partnership with Bennett at club level then that might be worth looking at.  Hutchinson seems to have continued where he left off last season.  So once again we have options there, just hope a couple of them pan out.

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Post by tigertattie on Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:31 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:Been away for a few days so missed a lot of the conversations here, but just to throw my tuppence in;

- From the chat a few pages back about not sacking Gatland should he have a poor WC.  That is entirely different, considering Gatland has won stuff with Wales (and quite a lot at that).  So you can’t really compare folk wanting rid of Toonie with a hypothetical situation with an incredibly successful coach.

- Toonie’s record - Yes on paper it’s better than any other Scotland coach, but as Tom English’s article points out, his record in competitive games isn’t great.  It’s all very well winning ‘friendly’ games, but it means nothing if we get horsed in the 6n and WC.  If you look at Gatland’s record with Wales, he blatantly doesn’t give a toss about the November tests, or summer tours (despite still doing fairly well in them) it’s all about silverware and he’s shown repeatedly this approach works.  I’m not saying we write them off, but we need to take Toonie’s record in context.

- On replacing coaches etc, it was flagged (somewhere) most nations have a attack, defence, etc etc coach, whereas Scotland has Toonie as both attack and head coach, and this could be the issue we have around defence.  In theory, head coaches will take feedback/advice from attack/defence (etc) coaches and create a gameplan on the back of that, however Toonie has his attacking plan and is more likely to try and shoehorn defence into it, which doesn’t necessarily work.

- New head coach;
Cotter - he’s not coming back, as much as I’d like him to, he’s too expensive, and was treated badly by the SRU last time.  He comes across as a fairly proud man, so why go back somewhere where you were treated badly.
Robertson - He’d be my pick, but he wants the NZ job, and even if he doesn’t get it this time round, he’s probably better placed to get it staying where he is, or going for the Ireland job (assuming I’ve not missed an announcement), rather than risking his rep by coming to Scotland.
Cockerill - I don’t think he’s suited to International coaching, also he’s still got work to do to prove himself (at Edinburgh) after a good season and a fairly poor season.
Rennie - I would be amazed if he’s doesn’t get the Oz job.  He’s said he wants to move closer to home and whilst it’s still a fair journey it’s a lot closer than Scotland.
Eddie Jones - nope
Gatland - Won’t take it
For lack of a better option, I’d stick with Toonie, but bring in a new attack coach and let him focus on being a head coach.

- Midfield partnership - During the WC we seemed to bypass the midfield quite a bit, not sure if that was because Finn didn’t trust those inside him, or if there was some other reason for it.  Either way, Bennett has started well this season (early days) and if he can keep it up, he could be a real shout to come back into that midfield.  If Scott can get fit again and provide a solid partnership with Bennett at club level then that might be worth looking at.  Hutchinson seems to have continued where he left off last season.  So once again we have options there, just hope a couple of them pan out.

Point of Order Mr Chairman

1. You cant sack Gatland as he's off after the WC
2. Toonie is the opposite of Gatland (and gives the example of the Scottish Mentality) in that he'd rather we had (or at least we focus on) plucky near losses over NZ/SA in friendlies rather than winning games in the 6Ns
3. Robertson is hanging around in NZ till he gets the AB job. Or he goes off to Japan or somewhere for international experience. He wont touch Scotland with a bargepole. He's also not off to Ireland as Farrell is getting that job.
4. Our midfield is rotten. This isnt Huw Jones fault. It's Toonie's for picking Taylor who hasnt played rugby since jimbo were a lad and Horne who cant play rugby.

Still. Look on the bright side. It's there somewhere. I jsut dont know where!

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Post by jimbopip on Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:31 pm

George Carlin wrote:I should have added that the thing I dislike most about Toonie is his constant need to pick from his stable of favourites regardless of whether they or not they have a limb hanging off. What the RWC has shown us get again is that form matters. Teams don't have weeks and weeks to get up to speed. Players that are playing well for their clubs are massively more likely to play well at test level. This is shown time and time again.

This means that Horne will keep being chosen for reasons that surpass all reasonable understanding.

Being shown your inner Rambo has really wobbled your psyche, mon ami. Hug

I always thought shysters had to think logically as a matter of course. Shocked

Yes, form matters. Yes pick players who are playing well for their clubs.

Picking a 12 who is on form for his club and whose coach compares him favourably with Ryan Crottie does not surpass all reasonable understanding. picard

The problem is that some players can be very good at club level and just a fraction too slow, too underpowered, too meh to really make it at international level. Furra Linee and His Richieness were an awesome centre pairing at Glasgow. Awesome as in they won more games together than they lost and never had their shorts pulled down and their bottoms spanked by the bigger boys. They would never have made a successful pairing at international level. It would now seem that Furra Linee has had all his chances and he doesn't look like he will ever influence an international match (positively influence) the way he regularly influences club matches.

The other problem with picking on form is what I shall call the Warburton: Half A Loaf conundrum. Sam Warburton says in his , highly readable, "Open Side" that he could not play for Cardiff with anything like the intensity he played for Wales. Not if he wanted his career to last more than a couple of months. So he played at about 85% for his club in order to protect himself. If you are a Cardiff supporter is 85% of Warburton better than 100% of A N Other? Is this why Not A Pony can't get into the Glasgow side? I do get the feeling DR is a 100% or nothing kind of coach. So should Toonie have taken Shug in the belief that with enough training time he would then hit the ground running? Or was he right to say that as he was so far out of form he was almost coming in from the other side and couldn't possibly be picked?

Rambo, I do notice a rather piquant tang to your posts this morning: you really are desperate to distance yourself from your inner pannacotta aren't you?Hug

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Post by RDW on Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:24 pm

Speaking of Rambo, he's been posting things on social media from Perth which is where I am just now - any suggested topics of conversation should I come across him?

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Post by George Carlin on Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:34 pm

RDW wrote:Speaking of Rambo, he's been posting things on social media from Perth which is where I am just now - any suggested topics of conversation should I come across him?
Isn't social media in Perth just two people spraying graffiti on the same wall?
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Post by RDW on Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:42 pm

George Carlin wrote:
RDW wrote:Speaking of Rambo, he's been posting things on social media from Perth which is where I am just now - any suggested topics of conversation should I come across him?
Isn't social media in Perth just two people spraying graffiti on the same wall?

Perth Australia...

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Post by jimbopip on Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:51 pm

RDW wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
RDW wrote:Speaking of Rambo, he's been posting things on social media from Perth which is where I am just now - any suggested topics of conversation should I come across him?
Isn't social media in Perth just two people spraying graffiti on the same wall?

Perth Australia...

Isn't social media in Perth just two people spraying ahem "grafitti" on the same marsupial?

You could ask him how it feels to be half-man half-panna cotta.

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Post by tigertattie on Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:27 pm

RDW wrote:Speaking of Rambo, he's been posting things on social media from Perth which is where I am just now - any suggested topics of conversation should I come across him?

Ask him why he gave himself the nickname of "Rambo"

Nicknames are not something you can give yourself. If it were then I'd insist that everyone refers to me as "Extremely well hung good looking man". As we can't give ourselves nicknames I'm forever simply known as the ever original "Big man"

Nicknames can only be given by close friends, or indeed, Scottish memebers of the 606v2 forum!
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Post by Tattie Scones RRN on Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:27 pm

After his performance over the last couple of weeks, perhaps it should be changed to 'Son of Rambo' instead.

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Post by jimbopip on Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:59 pm

People giving themselves nicknames is usually about wish fulfilment. If people perceive you as a macho alpha Male they'll give you an appropriate nickname. If you give yourself a macho nickname it's usually because you're worried no-one else will. In that sense Rambo is being the archetypal Luvvie.

P.s. I was secretly chuffed to bits when I discovered my team mates had responded to my pre match team talks by dubbing me Braveheart. I know they were taking the proverbial....but still.

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Post by 123456789. on Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:03 am

George Carlin wrote:
123456789. wrote:I think we need to start from scratch in the Scotland midfield. We still have very good options but they all seem to go out of form at the same time.

Taylor obviously was not match fit. I don't think he should be written off though. He is obviously a very good player and if he can get going again then I'd be more than happy for him to return to the fold. I'd put Alex Dunbar, Matt Scott and Mark Bennett in that category as well. Dunbar seems to have nailed a place down at Brive. He was always a decent anchor in the midfield, a good defender and great over the ball. I do suspect it was his size that sucked defenders in and allowed the space outside for Hogg and Jones to play in. He is a terrible distributor though and has no kicking game to speak of. Still he's not a bad option to have. Matt Scott is another player who has never fulfilled his potential. As a former 10 he should have the distribution skills and you can't say he's not big enough. There are question marks over his defence and always have been. Bennett was a quality operator, struck down by Jones rapid ascent and then injury. This time four years ago he won some award as the breakthrough player in world rugby. These four players once seemed a breath of fresh air after the Lamont-Morrison era. They're all still relatively young and shouldn't be ruled out.

Then there's the likes of Pete Horne, Sam Johnson, Huw Jones and Chris Harris who have burst into the hole left by the problems of injury/ form of the four above (I know there was some overlap but roughly speaking). Both have blown hot and cold. Horne has moment of brilliance and moments of insanity. Like Scotland in recent times it's been heavily weighted toward the latter. Did not seems wise to mouth off in the paper that he's a very good player, I'd have preferred him to do his talking on the pitch. Sam Johnson was heralded as the answer to the inside centre problem. To an extent he was but it's worrying that he's never entirely clicked with Finn Russell or any of the outside centre. Chris Harris is "solid" in defence but I think he is the weakest of our centre options. He doesn't have Bennett or Jones' eye for a gap nor Hutchinson's skill as a footballer. A sort of Jack of all trades master of none when it comes to outside-centre play. If any are to be phased out entirely it should be Harris. Lastly there's Jones, 20172018 Huw Jones is the best Scottish outside centre this century by a mile. 2019 Huw Jones is in the Marcus Di Rollo society of Scottish centres. If he can get his mojo back he'd be the first name on the team sheet. I've not seen much of Glasgow this season but his mojo seems AWOL. I don't think him and Rennie click together, so perhaps we won't see the best of Jones again until one of them leaves Glasgow.

Then there's the new generation. Hutchinson, Steyn and McDowall. Hutchinson seems quality to me and his non-selection was criminal. Steyn is brilliant but perhaps needs a bit more time before he plays at international level. He seemed a bit overwhelmed in the Pro14 final if I recall correctly. It's just a matter of time before McDowall get's in at 12, he seems to be ha slight upgrade on the player Dunbar was before his acl rupture. The two Edinburgh lads, Dean and Johnstone seem a wee bit behind the rest but by no means bad players, probably not international standard.

By my reckoning there are 13 Scottish centres currently fit and playing rugby. None of whom are in the imminent retirement age bracket. Personally if all were fit and available I'd like to see Hutchinson and Jones play together. As a former playmaker he could take some of the load from Russell and is intelligent enough to find space for Hogg and Jones despite his lack of obvious bulk.

Yes, I would like to talk about this (above) rather than pulling on another hair shirt about why the schools don't funnel properly to the clubs and why the clubs don't funnel competitively through to the franchises. We have neither England's money nor Ireland's infrastructure, school system and organisation. We know. We know. We get it. No need to tell Scotland fans on these boards what is wrong. We know.

We now see to be as well stacked for decent centre options than we have been for 15 years. I instinctively want to say that we just don't have settled combinations. What nags at the back of my mind is the realisation that whilst we might have very good options, none of them may be world class.

Alex Dunbar, Matt Scott and Mark Bennett - still need to fight their way back to test places. Dunbar's side are comfortably mid table in the Top 14 which means that he's not fully visible week to week. Scott and Bennett need a full season without any more horrendous injuries and need to hit form which endures for months at a time. They both should do it, but let's see. Both still fairly young.

Pete Horne, Sam Johnson, Huw Jones and Chris Harris - Horne is categorically knickers and every time I see him I want to pick him up and shake him until all the points he's conceded by throwing intercept passes at test level fall out. He does nothing as well as anybody. He is a Toyota Corolla. Everything might work but I really don't want one. Samwise looks the most nailed on at the moment and we should start by building a centre combination around him at 12. St Shug has become the whipping boy for the woke discussion board keyboard warriors who would indicate that he has suddenly become as immobile as a runaway sofa - the paradigm of familiarity breeding contempt. He is nowhere near as bad as he is being portrayed and I hope that he gets back to form sharpish so that the Received Wisdom Cowboys can shut the fork up. Chris Harris is slightly less exciting then gluten-free flapjacks and whilst he has delivered more than I expected, I get sad when I think of him in a Scotland shirt just because he's 'solid', 'dependable' or any other adjective which just means 'average'.

Hutchinson, Steyn and McDowall - Hutchinson would be my first choice to partner Samwise at 13 in the 6N. Prem Young Player of the Season and he has already started this season like a beast. What more does he need to do, exactly? Seaman and the Staff just need to keep doing what they're doing and if they can show some form then a bench place against Italy really should be theirs.

My fear with Sam Johnson is that he's clicked with Russell only on occasion and not really formed any effective centre partnerships with the other options. He seems to be in the unenviable position of being our best centre but probably not part of our best centre combination. I think Horne and Harris are in the same boat as many of our players from the Dark Ages. They've built careers on being solid simply because they haven't got any special abilities. Like De Luca's apparent defensive nous. My brother spoke about Ruaridh Jackson syndrome a couple of years ago. He doesn't follow club rugby religiously so pretty much only watches Scotland games. His assessment of Jackson was that he seemed to be picked when he broke through in 2011 simply on the basis that he wasn't Dan Parks. He couldn't kick as well so people decided he was good at running with the ball. In reality he was not very good but broke through because Dan Parks had become a scapegoat for Scotland not moving improving over his tenure. Similarly Harris is deemed as defensive and solid because Huw Jones is attacking. Horne was deemed as clever because Dunbar was a bludgeon. I'd love to see Hutchinson and Jones going together on form at 10 and 12. I'd be tempted to start looking at bringing Hastings on at 15 toward the end of games when we're ahead too. Giving us three playmakers on the pitch to control the game.

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Post by tigertattie on Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:51 am

Fair points numbers

I’m not sure if hutch is an answer at 10. He’s said himself that he feels he is a centre and not a 10. Hrs even said he’s a 13 and not a 12.

I’d still like to see Hastings at 10. Russell at 12 and Hutch at 13. A bit fragile in defence but the attacking power there should be what Toonie is after with the whole ethos of scoring more points than our opposition.
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Post by BigGee on Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:02 am

No you just can't plug s player back into FH just coz he played there as a junior. A lot of decent ball playing backs start off at school lrvel as a FH, evdn a few forwards like Sam Skinner!

Being the star of the school team at FH is miles away from playing their as a pro. Matt Scott was a FH and he can hardly pass the ball!

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Post by 123456789. on Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:32 am

My mistake, I meant at 12 and 13. Wouldn’t plug Hutchinson at 10 when we finally have decent fly halves available now.

I’m well aware that playing 10 at junior level doesn’t make you good at it. In my last year at school we underwent an enormous injury crisis. All of our hookers bar the third team stalwart were injured and we only had one fly-half fit. I was a bang average 12 with an unhealthy obsession with defending with a very good 10 and 13 either side. Think Brad Barrit with even less panache.
On account of the fact I’d been a hooker until the age of 11 and played next to the fly-half I was first choice 12 and second choice 10 and 2. On one occasion I was moved to 10 after an injury at half time, having spent the previous 10 minutes in the bin. Refused to pass of my left hand and put in a tactical kicking performance that Oscar Pistorius would be ashamed of. In my stint as playmaker I managed to whittle down our lead from around 20 points to just the 3. Our hooker was knocked out with 10 minutes to go. Managed to underperform in three positions and utterly bemuse the opposition. I did come up with the outstanding tactical innovation of kicking the ball back out the scrum to kill time. Managed to get through the last five minutes on our own line by doing it repeatedly. The referee was incredibly sympathetic and put it down to my natural place as a utility back.

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Post by George Carlin on Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:11 pm

123456789. wrote:My mistake, I meant at 12 and 13. Wouldn’t plug Hutchinson at 10 when we finally have decent fly halves available now.

I’m well aware that playing 10 at junior level doesn’t make you good at it. In my last year at school we underwent an enormous injury crisis. All of our hookers bar the third team stalwart were injured and we only had one fly-half fit. I was a bang average 12 with an unhealthy obsession with defending with a very good 10 and 13 either side. Think Brad Barrit with even less panache.
On account of the fact I’d been a hooker until the age of 11 and played next to the fly-half I was first choice 12 and second choice 10 and 2. On one occasion I was moved to 10 after an injury at half time, having spent the previous 10 minutes in the bin. Refused to pass of my left hand and put in a tactical kicking performance that Oscar Pistorius would be ashamed of. In my stint as playmaker I managed to whittle down our lead from around 20 points to just the 3. Our hooker was knocked out with 10 minutes to go. Managed to underperform in three positions and utterly bemuse the opposition. I did come up with the outstanding tactical innovation of kicking the ball back out the scrum to kill time. Managed to get through the last five minutes on our own line by doing it repeatedly. The referee was incredibly sympathetic and put it down to my natural place as a utility back.
This is without question the post of the month. There's a lot to unpack there for your therapist. Laugh
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Post by NeilyBroon on Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:48 pm

To be fair it doesn't sound much worse than many of our FHs/centres over the years! What are you doing february numbers? I think Toonie has a job for you.
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Post by tigertattie on Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:49 pm

#CrowdFundingUnderwayForTherapyForNumbers

#10IsTheEasiestPositionToPlay

I feel your pain numbers. I too was a member of the "He's not particularly good in any position so it doesn’t matter where you put him, he'll be equally as kack anywhere" club.

I've played every position on the field except winger and Hooker. The only reasons I've never played in either position is due to my physical attributes of

A: Being 6ft 4 made it physically dangerous for me to play at hooker when props were about 5ft 10 or less.

B: Being 6ft 4 made it physically dangerous for opposition wingers to have to face me in battle. Poor wee fellas would have been flattened (edit: this is mostly a lie, it's because I was as fast as brexit process with the turning circle of Jack Cuthbert on ice)

A frustrated No 8 who spent most of my "career" at 2nd row and prop and my main job was really just to lift folk at the line out (we did have an very good lineout). My claim to fame though is still scoring a hat-trick in a half playing at centre (Back play is easy peesy)
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Post by jimbopip on Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:09 pm

tigertattie, between us we've played every position. Prop is the only one I haven't been able to show my kackness at. One of the "joys" of captaining the lowest side in a small town club is the certain knowledge that wherever you're short is where you'll be playing.

One Saturday, after big son dragged me out of retirement and we were playing together in the seconds I spent at least 10 minutes in every position from 10 to 15.By the end of the match my heart was in my boots; how rubbish was I that they couldn't find anywhere were I was good enough to play there for the whole match. Crying or Very sad
Later that evening big son phoned and said the second's skipper had been having a beer with him and said, "Thank fecc your old man was there today, everytime we had an injury or had to sub someone I knew with his experience he would do a job and not let us down". I had a word with him at training and explained that unless he was very good at CPR he either played me in the pack or practised breaking the bad news to my widow because another Saturday like that would surely be the end of me.


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Post by tigertattie on Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:33 pm

It's soul destroying and yet gives you a sense of pride that you are picked to be the ultimate utility player.

I even had a go at scrum half once. I made Mike Phillips look like Wee George. I can pass off both hands but not very good off my right (even though I'm right handed, go figure). The pass off my left is actually very good and it confused the opposition no end when they saw 18 stone of me waddling up to a ruck, they expected either a pick and go or at most a pop pass to a stand off standing very close by. The defence would then line up narrow and BOOM, out went a bullet to the centres. It would have been a tactical masterpiece but even the centres on my own team didn’t expect it.

I didn’t mind the "versatility" that much until one day at the 7s tournament I was asked to run home and get my boots as a presidents 7 was needing to be formed. My heart attack started to come on even just at the thought of playing 7s in 20 degree heat. Thankfully, just as time was nearing for me to have to go get my boots, the blindside flanker of the seconds turned up and I managed to convince him that this was his opportunity to show the 1s manager what he could do.

unfortunately, what he could do was miss numerous tackles and spend most of the match breathing out his erse.

Rather him than me though
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Post by RDW on Wed Oct 23, 2019 7:54 am

From the Scottish rugby Facebook page

Hi All,

I work for BT Sport Rugby and wanted to bring to your attention the opportunity to come and be a part of our live studio audience on Rugby Tonight.

On the 29th January, Rugby Tonight have got Scottish rugby legend Doddie Weir joining us in the studio!

If you are interested in coming on the show, there is no limit to how many people we can have, and tickets are absolutely FREE! We do have a lower age limit of 16, so all audience members need to be 16 years and over.

All shows are on Wednesday nights out here in Stratford at the studio (Here East Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park, London E15 2GW) and you would need to be here by 7-7:30pm as the show goes live between 8-9pm.Send me an email on audience@rugbytonight.com if you're interested and I'll get back to you ASAP.

Thanks very much,
Jake

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Post by RDW on Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:07 pm

Richard Cockerill saying in an interview that Scotland are playing South Africa, South Africa and NZ in the summer..... Shocked

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Post by NeilyBroon on Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:14 pm

Looks like the SRU have their man at least should Toonie balls up the 6Ns!

I stand by my point that if he has decent assistants who ensure we don't end up trucking it through the forwards for 80 minutes it could work. That being said, there are definitely better options.
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Post by EWT Spoons on Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:28 pm

RDW wrote:Richard Cockerill saying in an interview that Scotland are playing South Africa, South Africa and NZ in the summer..... Shocked

BBC said something along those lines a few months ago.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/48719224

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:49 pm

RDW wrote:Richard Cockerill saying in an interview that Scotland are playing South Africa, South Africa and NZ in the summer..... Shocked

Let's just hope those sides feel they desperately need some squad development games and pick a bunch of 18 year olds. Then we might have a chance of getting within 40 points of them

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Post by tigertattie on Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:57 pm

RDW wrote:From the Scottish rugby Facebook page

Hi All,

I work for BT Sport Rugby and wanted to bring to your attention the opportunity to come and be a part of our live studio audience on Rugby Tonight.

On the 29th January, Rugby Tonight have got Scottish rugby legend Doddie Weir joining us in the studio!

If you are interested in coming on the show, there is no limit to how many people we can have, and tickets are absolutely FREE! We do have a lower age limit of 16, so all audience members need to be 16 years and over.

All shows are on Wednesday nights out here in Stratford at the studio (Here East Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park, London E15 2GW) and you would need to be here by 7-7:30pm as the show goes live between 8-9pm.Send me an email on audience@rugbytonight.com if you're interested and I'll get back to you ASAP.

Thanks very much,
Jake

No limits on how many people they have? So what, if 80k folk rock up, do they do the show out in the stadium?

If it wasnt a 29 hour bus trip I'd go down just to see what happens if millions of poeple rock up!
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Post by SecretFly on Wed Oct 23, 2019 8:10 pm

tigertattie wrote:
RDW wrote:From the Scottish rugby Facebook page

Hi All,

I work for BT Sport Rugby and wanted to bring to your attention the opportunity to come and be a part of our live studio audience on Rugby Tonight.

On the 29th January, Rugby Tonight have got Scottish rugby legend Doddie Weir joining us in the studio!

If you are interested in coming on the show, there is no limit to how many people we can have, and tickets are absolutely FREE! We do have a lower age limit of 16, so all audience members need to be 16 years and over.

All shows are on Wednesday nights out here in Stratford at the studio (Here East Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park, London E15 2GW) and you would need to be here by 7-7:30pm as the show goes live between 8-9pm.Send me an email on audience@rugbytonight.com if you're interested and I'll get back to you ASAP.

Thanks very much,
Jake

No limits on how many people they have? So what, if 80k folk rock up, do they do the show out in the stadium?

If it wasnt a 29 hour bus trip I'd go down just to see what happens if millions of poeple rock up!

If they can't get in they'll have to be refunded the cost of their free ticket.

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Post by 123456789. on Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:50 pm

tigertattie wrote:It's soul destroying and yet gives you a sense of pride that you are picked to be the ultimate utility player.

I even had a go at scrum half once. I made Mike Phillips look like Wee George. I can pass off both hands but not very good off my right (even though I'm right handed, go figure). The pass off my left is actually very good and it confused the opposition no end when they saw 18 stone of me waddling up to a ruck, they expected either a pick and go or at most a pop pass to a stand off standing very close by. The defence would then line up narrow and BOOM, out went a bullet to the centres. It would have been a tactical masterpiece but even the centres on my own team didn’t expect it.

I didn’t mind the "versatility" that much until one day at the 7s tournament I was asked to run home and get my boots as a presidents 7 was needing to be formed. My heart attack started to come on even just at the thought of playing 7s in 20 degree heat. Thankfully, just as time was nearing for me to have to go get my boots, the blindside flanker of the seconds turned up and I managed to convince him that this was his opportunity to show the 1s manager what he could do.

unfortunately, what he could do was miss numerous tackles and spend most of the match breathing out his erse.

Rather him than me though

I was moved to scrum-half for a game once after the actual scrum-halves simply did not show up. No injury, no other plans just a good old-fashioned no show. One of my best friends was playing fly-half and as the scrum-half wasn't there he asked me to come out with him as he practised kicking. This wasn't out of the ordinary, as the inside centre I did a bit of kicking practice usually under the absurd pretence that I might actually decide to throw my uncultured boot at the ball to do anything other than boot it out at half time if need be (was never confident enough to do it at full time). As the clock ticked inevitably toward kick-off my role changed from kicking partner, to the person who threw the ball to him to practice his last minute drop goal attempt. Then simply through convenience I stayed there through most of the warm up as it was determined my passing was better than the substitute backs. Still the scrum-half did not show. Eventually the coach made the call and I was told to squeeze my body into the scrum-half shirt (not a fun game).
This was a game against our local rivals, the guys from my school were split relatively even between my club, the opposition and another team in the area. We had made a bit of a habit of trouncing this team every year. One of my best friends from school, the opposing scrum-half on the day and a bloody good player, spotted me getting kitted out for my run out at scrum-half and started to giggle declaring that they would probably beat us if I was playing scrum-half. Somewhat miraculously I had a bit of a blinder (so much so I was asked to fill in there later that season when I did not have a blinder at all). Box kicking really is as easy as it looks and I managed to get a couple of tries. I even managed to land a couple of cheap shots on my pal for his earlier cheek. He took it in good faith. His mother and father, who were speaking to my dad when I seized my opportunity, were not best pleased.

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Post by RDW on Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:33 am

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:
RDW wrote:Richard Cockerill saying in an interview that Scotland are playing South Africa, South Africa and NZ in the summer..... Shocked

Let's just hope those sides feel they desperately need some squad development games and pick a bunch of 18 year olds. Then we might have a chance of getting within 40 points of them

https://twitter.com/GLove39/status/1187101286237388805?s=19

18th July sounds pretty late - outside the international window? If so we're even more doomed!

Our last game in 2018 was 23rd June and that was outside the international window.

What the hell are we doing playing a test in mid July.

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:50 pm

RDW wrote:
TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:
RDW wrote:Richard Cockerill saying in an interview that Scotland are playing South Africa, South Africa and NZ in the summer..... Shocked

Let's just hope those sides feel they desperately need some squad development games and pick a bunch of 18 year olds. Then we might have a chance of getting within 40 points of them

https://twitter.com/GLove39/status/1187101286237388805?s=19

18th July sounds pretty late - outside the international window? If so we're even more doomed!

Our last game in 2018 was 23rd June and that was outside the international window.

What the hell are we doing playing a test in mid July.

International window is later as 19/20 season started, and finishes later. Pro14 final on 20th June I think.

Summer 2020 is deemed a development summer. England set to tour Japan with WC players meant to be rested.

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Post by jimbopip on Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:47 pm

Is it churlish to say this.... Whistle

I'm really cheesed off now. Not that England won. fair do's to them they deserved it. No what is really peeing me off is that their rush "umbrella blitz defence " really rattled the kiwis and their 10 just couldn't get the ball outside them.

Now this annoys me for two reasons;

firstly , it shows that the All Blacks are only human and can be rattled but we all know if it had been Scotland they were playing it would be New Zealand in the final. picard

Secondly, Finn Russell destroyed the England rush defence in the second forty minutes at Twickenham this year and at Murrayfield last year. picard picard picard

So why did we come home after the group matches. furious furious furious furious furious

Rant over. As you were. Nothing to see here. Move along now.


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Post by hugehandoff on Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:51 pm

jimbopip wrote:Is it churlish to say this.... Whistle

I'm really cheesed off now. Not that England won. fair do's to them they deserved it. No what is really peeing me off is that their rush "umbrella blitz defence " really rattled the kiwis and their 10 just couldn't get the ball outside them.

Now this annoys me for two reasons;

firstly , it shows that the All Blacks are only human and can be rattled but we all know if it had been Scotland they were playing it would be New Zealand in the final.  picard

Secondly, Finn Russell destroyed the England rush defence in the second forty minutes at Twickenham this year and at Murrayfield last year.  picard  picard  picard

So why did we come home after the group matches. furious  furious  furious  furious  furious

Rant over. As you were. Nothing to see here. Move along now.





Big difference for England now is playing with all their players fit and healthy. We were missing Mako, Maro, Underhill, Marler that day. They have all been immense for England and make a huge difference. But you are also right in thinking that Scotland can go toe to toe with the best when you are also at full strength.

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Post by 123456789. on Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:29 am

Watching that game was the first time I'd really wished Scotland had made the knockout stages. Up there with our inability to close out games and refusal to play sensible rugby is the fact that we very rarely get the big, box-office do or die games against the very, very best. And when we do, Twickenham 2017 for example, we rarely show up. I am optimistic that if we can click and get it right over the next couple of years then we will mix it up with the very best. We'll have to be lucky and hope our players all hit form at the same time but if we can get Graham, Maitland, Hogg, Jones, Hutchinson, Russell and Horne on a good day I'm not sure any team in the world would be able to cope. We'd concede a bucket load of tries too but it would be good to watch.

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Post by tigertattie on Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:29 am

123456789. wrote:
tigertattie wrote:It's soul destroying and yet gives you a sense of pride that you are picked to be the ultimate utility player.

I even had a go at scrum half once. I made Mike Phillips look like Wee George. I can pass off both hands but not very good off my right (even though I'm right handed, go figure). The pass off my left is actually very good and it confused the opposition no end when they saw 18 stone of me waddling up to a ruck, they expected either a pick and go or at most a pop pass to a stand off standing very close by. The defence would then line up narrow and BOOM, out went a bullet to the centres. It would have been a tactical masterpiece but even the centres on my own team didn’t expect it.

I didn’t mind the "versatility" that much until one day at the 7s tournament I was asked to run home and get my boots as a presidents 7 was needing to be formed. My heart attack started to come on even just at the thought of playing 7s in 20 degree heat. Thankfully, just as time was nearing for me to have to go get my boots, the blindside flanker of the seconds turned up and I managed to convince him that this was his opportunity to show the 1s manager what he could do.

unfortunately, what he could do was miss numerous tackles and spend most of the match breathing out his erse.

Rather him than me though

I was moved to scrum-half for a game once after the actual scrum-halves simply did not show up. No injury, no other plans just a good old-fashioned no show. One of my best friends was playing fly-half and as the scrum-half wasn't there he asked me to come out with him as he practised kicking. This wasn't out of the ordinary, as the inside centre I did a bit of kicking practice usually under the absurd pretence that I might actually decide to throw my uncultured boot at the ball to do anything other than boot it out at half time if need be (was never confident enough to do it at full time). As the clock ticked inevitably toward kick-off my role changed from kicking partner, to the person who threw the ball to him to practice his last minute drop goal attempt. Then simply through convenience I stayed there through most of the warm up as it was determined my passing was better than the substitute backs. Still the scrum-half did not show. Eventually the coach made the call and I was told to squeeze my body into the scrum-half shirt (not a fun game).
This was a game against our local rivals, the guys from my school were split relatively even between my club, the opposition and another team in the area. We had made a bit of a habit of trouncing this team every year. One of my best friends from school, the opposing scrum-half on the day and a bloody good player, spotted me getting kitted out for my run out at scrum-half and started to giggle declaring that they would probably beat us if I was playing scrum-half. Somewhat miraculously I had a bit of a blinder (so much so I was asked to fill in there later that season when I did not have a blinder at all). Box kicking really is as easy as it looks and I managed to get a couple of tries. I even managed to land a couple of cheap shots on my pal for his earlier cheek. He took it in good faith. His mother and father, who were speaking to my dad when I seized my opportunity, were not best pleased.

I’d just like to clarify that my stint at 9 was after our scrum half went off injured and I did not, I repeat, did not have to squeeze into the 9 jersey.
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Post by bsando on Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:41 pm

Looking at that Edinburgh performance last weekend, are some younger players in with a shot at leaping up the pecking order in teh run up to the 6 Nations? I thought Ally Miller was very impressive, Johnnie Beattie-esque in carrying style and better hands.

Also, Scott and Bennett especially look like they may well be able to push for a shout at international honours again.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:44 pm

Glasgow and Edinburgh should be better set than some teams for the return of European action in a couple of weeks. Could be good for national team.


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Post by RDW on Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:52 pm

Miler has looked good but when all the Internationals return he's going to be way down the pecking order - he'll probably be farmed out to the 7s again. He's got Bradbury, Mata, Barclay, Hanning, Steenkamp and Ritchie all to compete with, plus the likes of Charmichael who also covers 6.

Also worth saying he's not big at all - he's down as 6ft 3 and 16.5st but I don't believe that! Size isn't everything of course ( Erm ) but he's really small for an international 6/8.

Will be interesting to see if he's picked this weekend on the back of a strong performance against Scarlets - that would be a real statement from Cockers!

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Post by EWT Spoons on Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:59 pm

Steenkamp was signed as WC cover, so I assume he'll be on his way shortly.

I think the hype for Miller is a bit early yet, as he's barely played for us, but hopefully this is the start of something as he was very good on Sat.

This possibly should be in the club section, but I think there needs to be a loan move for some of Edinburgh's back row players, as whilst the depth is great, we do have too many.

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