Gallagher Premiership 2019/20

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Gallagher Premiership 2019/20 Empty Gallagher Premiership 2019/20

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 17 Oct 2019, 2:07 pm

Table

Pos
Team
Played
Won
Drawn
Lost
For
Against
Pts Difference
Bonus
Points
1
Bristol Bears
4
3
0
1
96
65
31
2
14
2
Northampton Saints
4
3
0
1
115
85
30
2
14
3
Sale Sharks
4
2
0
2
95
59
36
3
11
4
Gloucester Rugby
4
2
0
2
68
62
6
2
10
5
Exeter Chiefs
4
2
0
2
73
72
1
2
10
6
London Irish
4
2
0
2
85
94
-9
2
10
7
Worcester Warriors
4
2
0
2
79
89
-10
1
9
8
Bath Rugby
4
2
0
2
73
96
-13
0
8
9
Harlequins
4
1
0
3
77
98
-21
2
6
10
Wasps
4
1
0
3
83
104
-21
1
5
11
Leicester Tigers
4
1
0
3
53
97
-44
0
4
12
Saracens
4
3
0
1
86
62
24
-34
-22
Bath
Last Season - 6th

Players in: Lewis Boyce (Prop), Christian Judge (Prop), Will Stuart (Prop), Mike Williams (Utility Forward), Josh McNally (Second Row), Ollie Fox (Scrum Half)
Promoted from Academy: Miles Reid, Will Vaughan, Sam Nixon, Tom de Glanville, Will Britton, Jack Davies, Tom Doughty, Levi Davis promoted (X Factor permitting)

Players Out: Dave Attwood (Second Row), Paul Grant (Back Row), Luke Charteris (Second Row), James Wilson (Utility Back), Kahn Fotuali'i (Scrum Half), Jacques van Rooyen (Prop), Jack Wilson (Wing), Cooper Vuna (Wing), Anthony Perenise (Prop), Michael van Vuuren (Hooker), Max Lahiff (Prop)


Bristol Bears
Last Season - 9th

Players in: Dave Attwood (Second Row), Nathan Hughes (Back Row), Nicky Thomas (Prop), Max Lahiff (Prop), Tyrese Johnson-Fisher (Wing)
Promoted from Academy: Sam Bedlow, John Hawkins, Toby Fricker

Players out: Nick Haining (Back Row), George Smith (Back Row), Nick Fenton-Wells (Back Row), Joe Latta (Second Row), Tusi Pisi (Fly Half), Sione Faletau (Prop), Jack Lam (Back Row)


Exeter Chiefs
Last Season: Runners Up

Players in: Stuart Hogg (Full Back), Will Witty (Second Row), Tom Price (Second Row), Stan South (Utility Forward), Jannes Kirsten (Utility Forward), Jacques Vermeulen (Utility Forward)

Players out: Santiago Cordero (Wing/FB), Tom Lawday (Back Row), Moray Low (Prop), Ollie Atkins (Second Row), Mitch Lees (Second Row)


Gloucester
Last Season: 3rd

Players in: Joe Simpson (Scrum Half), Jamal Ford-Robinson (Prop), Chris Harris (Centre), Corne Fourie (Prop)
Promoted from Academy: Charlie Chapman, Alex Seville, Alex Craig, Ciaran Knight, Tom Seabrook, Henry Walker

Players out: Paddy McAllister (Prop), Gareth Denman (Prop), Kyle Traynor (Prop) Tom Savage (Second Row), Gareth Evans (Back Row), Ben Vellacott (Scrum Half), Henry Purdy (Centre/Wing)


Harlequins
Last Season 4th

Players in: Santiago Garcias Botta (Prop), Martin Landajo (Scrum Half), Michele Campagnaro (Centre), Scott Baldwin (Hooker), Stephan Lewies (Second Row), Glen Young (Second Row), Will Evans (Flanker), Simon Kerrod (Prop), Tom Lawday (Back Row), Travis Ismaiel (Wing), Veriniki Goneva (Wing), Tevita Cavubati (Second Row)

Players out: Alofa Alofa (Utility Back), George Merrick (Second Row), Lewis Boyce (Prop), James Horwill (Second Row), Josh Ibuanokpe (Prop), Tim Visser (Wing), Charlie Walker(Wing), Demitir Catrakilis (Fly Half), Mat Luamanu (Back Row), Luke Wallace (Flanker), Stan South (Second Row), Dave Ward (Hooker), Dave Lewis (Scrum Half), Ben Glynn (Second Row)


Leicester Tigers
Last season 11th

Players in: Jordan Taufua (Back Row), Noel Reid (Fly Half/Centre), Calum Green (Second Row), Jaco Taute (Centre), Tomas Lavanini (Second Row), Nephi Leatigaga (Prop), Charlie Clare (Hooker), Joe Thomas (Centre), Johnny McPhillips (Fly Half), EW Viljoen (Utility Back), Hanro Liebenberg (Back Row), Jordan Coghlan (Back Row)
Promoted from Academy: Tom Hardwicke, Joe Heyes, Sam Lewis, Jordan Olowefela, Tommy Reffell, Sam Aspland Robinson, Harry Simmons, Ben White

Players out: Matt Toomua (Centre), Mike Williams (Utility Forward), Graham Kitchener (Second Row), Mathew Tait (Utility Back), Will Evans (Flanker), Tom Varndell (Winger), James Voss (Second Row), Matt Smith (Centre), Gareth Owen (Centre), Michael Fitzgerald (Second Row), Brendon O'Connor (Back Row), Valentino Mapapalangi (Back Row), Fred Tuilagi (Back Row), Leonardo Sarto (Wing),  Joe Ford (Fly Half), David Feao (Prop), David Denton (Back Row), Ross McMillan (Hooker), Campese Ma'afu (Prop), Charlie Thacker (Centre)


London Irish
Last Season: Promoted

Players in: Allan Dell (Prop), Nick Phipps (Scrum Half), Curtis Rona (Wing), Sean O'Brien (Back Row), Sekope Kepu (Prop), Paddy Jackson (Fly Half), Waisake Naholo (Wing), Adam Coleman (Second Row), Ruan Botha (Second Row), Steve Mafi (Utility Forward), George Nott (Utility Forward)

Players Out: Josh McNally (Second Row), Ian Keatley (Fly Half), Brendan McKibbin (Centre), Mike Coman (Back Row), Tommy Bell (Utility Back), Topsy Ojo (Wing), Fergus Mulchrone (Centre), Luke McLean (Full Back), Sebastian de Chaves (Second Row), Ofisa Treviranus (Back Row), Greig Tonks (Utility Back),  Napolioni Nalaga (Wing), Sam Twomey (Second Row), Filo Paulo (Second Row), Manasa Saulo (Prop)


Northampton Saints
Last Season: 4th

Players in: Matt Proctor (Utility back), Owen Franks (Prop), Ryan Olowofela (Wing), Henry Taylor (Scrum Half), Michael van Vuuren (Hooker)
Promoted from Academy: Ehren Painter, Fraser Dingwall,  James Grayson,  Alex Mitchell,  Alex Moon

Players Out: Luther Burrell (Centre), Jamal Ford-Robinson (Prop), James Craig (Utility Forward), James Haskell (Back Row), Dominic Barrow (Second Row), Nafi Tuitavake (Wing), Ken Pisi (Centre)


Sale Sharks
Last Season: 7th

Players in: Jake Cooper-Woolley (Prop), Robert du Preez (Fly Half), Akker van der Merwe (Hooker), Lood de Jager (Second Row), Coenie Oosthuizen (Prop), Dan du Preez (Utility Forward), Jean-Luc du Preez (Back Row), Simon Hammersley (Full Back), Mark Wilson (Back Row)

Players Out: Andrei Ostrikov (Second Row), Mark Jennings (Centre), Alexandru Țăruș (Prop), Johnny Leota (Centre),  Paolo Odogwu (Wing), James O'Connor (Utility Back), Josh Strauss (Back Row), George Nott (Utility Forward)


Saracens
Last Season: Champions

Players in: Elliot Daly (Utility back), Rhys Carré (Prop), Jack Singleton (Hooker), Josh Ibuanokpe (Prop)
Promoted from Academy: Alistair Crossdale, Dominic Morris

Players out: Christopher Tolofua (Hooker), Sione Vailanu (Back Row), Hayden Thompson-Stringer (Prop), David Strettle (Wing), Henry Taylor (Scrum Half) Dominic Day (Second Row), Marcelo Bosch (Centre), Schalk Burger (Back Row)


Wasps
Last Season: 8th

Players in: Malakai Fekitoa (Centre), Jeffery Toomaga-Allen (Prop), Ben Vellacott (Scrum Half), Matteo Minozzi (Utility back), Sione Vailanu (Back row), Biyi Alo (Prop), Paolo Odogwu (Wing), Zach Kibirige (wing)
Promoted from academy:  Will Porter,  Callum Sirker,  Sam Spink,  Tom Willis,  Tim Cardall,  Gabriel Oghre,  Owain James, Jacob Umaga

Players out: Jake Cooper-Woolley (Prop), Nathan Hughes (Back row), Will Stuart (Prop), Elliot Daly (Centre), Joe Simpson (Scrum half), Willie le Roux (Full Back), Michele Campagnaro (Centre), Kearnan Myall (Second Row), Gabiriele Lovobalavu (Centre), Matt Mullan (Prop)


Worcester Warriors
Last Season 10th

Players in: Graham Kitchener (Second Row), Jono Kitto (Scrum Half), Melani Nanai (Wing), Ed Fidow (Wing)
Promoted from Academy: Andrew Kitchener,  Ted Hill

Players out:  Bryce Heem (Wing), Josh Adams (Wing), Darren Barry (Second Row), Wynand Olivier (Centre), Dewald Potgieter (Back row), Jack Singleton (Hooker), Jonny Arr (Scrum half), Carl Kirwan (Back row), Luke Baldwin (Scrum Half), Ben Te'o (Centre), Alafoti Fa'osiliva (Back row)


Last edited by LondonTiger on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 11:19 am; edited 6 times in total

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Gallagher Premiership 2019/20 Empty Re: Gallagher Premiership 2019/20

Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 17 Oct 2019, 3:26 pm

Bring on the season. Looking at those lists what's jumps out is that Bath have finally spent some money at tighthead, LI have purchased an eye watering amount of fire power, Worcester have replaced a dozen players with four (payrises must have been good there) and the Sale pack should be pretty tasty.

Can't see past Chiefs and Sarries for top 2 but then a right old scrap for third and fourth with LI and Wuss dogging it out at the bottom, though a lot closer than most of the other clubs would like them to be.

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Post by propdavid_london on Fri 18 Oct 2019, 9:55 am

Huge amount of changes for Quins too - although generally positive (at the moment).
With the WC Quarters this weekend the Prem has flown a bit under the radar!

As a Quins supporter (with a squad that Gustard has had full control over) I am hopeful of a playoff spot this season. That surely has to be the target after a top 6 finish last time.


For the others - IMO

Sale have been spending a lot bringing in a large SA contingent and a huge number of back line options (despite loosing James O'Connor). They must be realistically targeting top 4.
Same for Chiefs/Saracens and even Gloucester - they have made minimal incoming squad tweaks and will all be settled.
Saints I view as similar to Quins, it was a close finish at the end of last season. But with more new faces at Quins then Saints may have the edge in the early half of the year.

Worcester - A lot of quality players have left, and not necessarily been replaced. I would have them to be in the bottom half this season.
Wasps - who knows, same as Worcester there are a lot of quality players leaving and a few new names coming in. Focus still seems to be on attack and perhaps not defence. Top 6 is probably the target, realistically I think mid to lower half (although I am sure all sides are top4 targets)


Lon Irish - good to see them back, they have definitely splashed some cash with the extra time to prep for this season. Some big names coming in and some long term club men stepping down. Again I am sure staying up is the primary goal.
For me the example of Exeter and Bristol in staying up is a core of very experienced, gritty, hungry players and then one of two X-factors. I am not sure LI have that core, but would be very happy to be proved wrong.

I think the relegation scrap will be between Irish/Worcester and possibly Wasps.



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Post by Cumbrian on Fri 18 Oct 2019, 10:13 am

Bristol

15. Charles Piutau; 14. Luke Morahan, 13. Piers O’Conor, 12. Will Hurrell, 11. Mat Protheroe; 10. Callum Sheedy, 9. Andy Uren; 1. Jake Woolmore, 2. Harry Thacker, 3. John Afoa, 4. Dave Attwood, 5. Joe Joyce, 6. Steven Luatua (c), 7. Dan Thomas, 8. Nathan Hughes.

Replacements: 16. Shaun Malton, 17. Yann Thomas, 18. Max Lahiff, 19. Chris Vui, 20. Jake Heenan, 21. Harry Randall, 22. Ioan Lloyd, 23. Alapati Leiua.

vs.

Bath

15. Tom Homer

14. Aled Brew

13. Max Clark

12. Max Wright

11. Levi Davis

10. Rhys Priestland

9. Will Chudley

1. Beno Obano

2. Tom Dunn

3. Christian Judge

4. Josh McNally

5. Charlie Ewels (c)

6. Mike Williams

7. Tom Ellis

8. Zach Mercer

Replacements

16. Jack Walker

17. Lewis Boyce

18. Will Stuart

19. Elliott Stooke

20. Josh Bayliss

21. Chris Cook

22. Freddie Burns

23. Jamie Roberts

That is a big back-row that Bath are selecting. In fact it is a fairly hefty back five.
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Post by propdavid_london on Fri 18 Oct 2019, 11:25 am

It might be that he is a bit slender - But I haven't really thought of Mercer as a UNIT.
Granted, apart from Mercer the bath Pack is sizeable...really hope Obano gets an injury free season.

Bristol have got all their big names that I can see (is Ian Madigan injured) - really targeting that 1st game at home.

Looking forward to Derby Day (Night)

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 18 Oct 2019, 11:45 am

From Bristol Post:

Just six percent of the Bristol Bears squad is injured, they are: Jake Armstrong (thumb), Tom Lindsay (hamstring), Jordan Crane (back), Blake Boyland (ankle).

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 18 Oct 2019, 12:01 pm

Leicester Tigers (v Worcester Warriors, Sixways, Saturday 3.00pm)

15 George Worth
14 Adam Thompstone
13 EW Viljoen
12 Kyle Eastmond
11 Jonah Holmes
10 Noel Reid
9 Ben White
1 Greg Bateman
2 Tom Youngs (c)
3 Joe Heyes
4 Will Spencer
5 Calum Green
6 Hanro Liebenberg
7 Tommy Reffell
8 Guy Thompson

Replacements
16 Jake Kerr
17 Facundo Gigena
18 Nephi Leatigaga
19 Harry Wells
20 Jordan Coghlan
21 Sam Harrison
22 Tom Hardwick
23 Jordan Olowofela

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Fri 18 Oct 2019, 12:16 pm

Warriors
15 Chris Pennell
14 Perry Humphreys
13 Ashley Beck
12 Ryan Mills
11 Melani Nanai
10 Duncan Weir
9 Francois Hougaard
1 Callum Black
2 Niall Annett
3 Conor Carey
4 Anton Bresler
5 Graham Kitchener
6 Ted Hill
7 Marco Mama (C)
8 Cornell du Preez

16 Isaac Miller
17 Ethan Waller
18 Richard Palframan
19 Michael Fatialofa
20 GJ van Velze
21 Jono Kitto
22 Jono Lance
23 Francois Venter

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Fri 18 Oct 2019, 12:37 pm

As a Tigers fan of hope that we'd win this game. Worcester are an efficient and niggly side though, they won't just roll over. Be a good test to see where we are.

Surprised to see Viljoen dropped straight in for his debut. Thought he might have been eased in off the bench. It'll be a backline reshuffle if he has to come off.

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Post by propdavid_london on Fri 18 Oct 2019, 1:03 pm

Harlequins Starting XV:

1 Santiago Garcia Botta (2)
2 Scott Baldwin (2)
3 Will Collier (154)
4 Matt Symons (27)
5 Stephan Lewies (2)
6 Chris Robshaw (Captain) (277)
7 Will Evans (3)
8 Tom Lawday (2)
9 Martin Landajo (3)
10 Marcus Smith (61)
11 Gabriel Ibitoye (22)
12 Ben Tapuai (24)
13 Joe Marchant (82)
14 Cadan Murley (16)
15 Mike Brown (324)

Game Changers:
16 Elia Elia (38)
17 Mark Lambert (242)
18 Simon Kerrod (4)
19 Glen Young (3)
20 Alex Dombrandt (27)
21 Charlie Mulchrone (40)
22 James Lang (51)
23 Aaron Morris (33)

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 18 Oct 2019, 9:21 pm

Really good start to the season for Bristol

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Post by Heaf on Fri 18 Oct 2019, 9:43 pm

My Bristol by 2 prediction was a bit out Shocked

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Post by B91212 on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 4:29 am

Just got to watch the game, went for Bristol by 12 and was feeling a bit smug until the last few minutes. Thought the Bath team didn’t look very strong on paper, well they looked decidedly less strong on the pitch. Not taking anything away from Bristol though who looked really good going forward.

Just going to say personally it feels great to have the prem back. I know it’s being overshadowed by some small nondescript tournament over in Asia at the moment but I for one have missed it. Being a Saints fan I might not feel the same tomorrow after the game but for now I’m really happy it’s back.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 8:29 am

Bath looked really poor. They did well to come back and be in the game at half time but I was just always waiting for the next Bristol score.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 8:27 pm

No LBP for Tigers, denied by a late penalty. Disappointing. TV will be back next week but then it's Sarries though...

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 19 Oct 2019, 10:09 pm

You forgot an in for Saracens, another Welsh prop. Still find it interesting that they took a punt on a premiership player.

Ioan Lloyd is 18 right? He looked good in the highlights reel... and must be decent to be in there at age 18.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 20 Oct 2019, 9:32 am

mikey_dragon wrote:You forgot an in for Saracens, another Welsh prop. Still find it interesting that they took a punt on a premiership player.

Ioan Lloyd is 18 right? He looked good in the highlights reel... and must be decent to be in there at age 18.

Good chance for him to make an early impact. Sarries had Lamasitale, Koch and Figallo at the RWC. Two of those three will be back in soon with Argentina and USA not getting out of the group stages.

Reffell and Holmes played full 80 for Tigers. Reffell got a decent write up.

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Post by LondonTiger on Sun 20 Oct 2019, 3:44 pm

Falcons really should have given more time to Kibirige. Must be daunting for their fans to see him looking so good in Wasps black.

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Post by Heaf on Sun 20 Oct 2019, 3:54 pm

16-19 HT to LI - but they really need to sort out the breakdown as they've been rubbish there so far. Looking good when in attack though.

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Post by Heaf on Sun 20 Oct 2019, 4:05 pm

3 tries for LI so far ... 16-26 now ...

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Post by Heaf on Sun 20 Oct 2019, 4:09 pm

16-29 - can we start to believe? Wasps can strike quickly though ..

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Post by Heaf on Sun 20 Oct 2019, 4:10 pm

Damn - forward pass called denies the TBP ....

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Post by Heaf on Sun 20 Oct 2019, 4:36 pm

YC and Wasps try - was coming for some time. Frustratingly LI gave up a free kick from a defensive line-out due to a simple error in concentration.

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Post by Heaf on Sun 20 Oct 2019, 4:41 pm

Wasps jump across the line out and knock the jumper over but that's fine according to JP.

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Post by Heaf on Sun 20 Oct 2019, 4:43 pm

Cowan questioning JP for an offside as a Wasps player knocks on and the Wasps player in front catches it - Cowan right, JPD wrong.

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Post by Heaf on Sun 20 Oct 2019, 4:46 pm

Now he's ignoring the AR when he calls a scrum pen against Wasps. ...

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Post by Heaf on Sun 20 Oct 2019, 4:55 pm

Doyle can't wait to ping LI - apparently lying over players almost horizontally is supporting your own weight?

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Post by Heaf on Sun 20 Oct 2019, 5:00 pm

PHEW ... made it. Missed out on the TBP but an away win to Wasps not to be sniffed at for the first match. Plus more players to come in so encouraging signs - let's hope it goes better than the last time we started on a high.

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Post by LondonTiger on Sun 20 Oct 2019, 5:52 pm

For much of the game JP was favouring LI in his decision making, and made some 50/50 calls that kept LI players 9n the field. Even towards the end when there were some odd calls against LI there were still some equally odd ones against Wasps. Thing is, despite what the commentators said, JP is sub standard.

Bet your fingernails have been chewd right back Heaf.

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Post by Heaf on Sun 20 Oct 2019, 5:57 pm

Yep JP is and always has been poor - guess I see more of the bad calls against LI than the opposition but there are so many it's hard to keep up Smile

Blood pressure starting to come down now thumbsup

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Post by Heaf on Sun 20 Oct 2019, 6:02 pm

Just took a look at the table - would have got good odds on that top 3 after round one - shame it's unlikely to last ...

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Post by Rinsure on Mon 21 Oct 2019, 12:11 pm

Ah, just seen this thread (I was away last week), so I'm not going to put everything I put on the Wasps thread, but well done to LI. Pretty much deserved, we were the architects of our own downfall but they took their chances.

Jack Willis and Zach Kibirige were the positives from our perspective. Sopoaga and Le Bourgeois forced off with injuries - yet to see how bad they are. The injuries, not the players... Whistle

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Post by Heaf on Mon 21 Oct 2019, 3:24 pm

Willis was brilliant for you ... a real pain at the breakdown for the opposition.

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Post by westisbest on Mon 21 Oct 2019, 9:08 pm

Great start back in the premiership from London Irish.

Hopefully do well this season.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 6:41 am

Heaf wrote:Willis was brilliant for you ... a real pain at the breakdown for the opposition.

Can see him getting a call up to the 6N if he can't stay fit and find his best form. Very much an Eddie style backrower. His abiy to play 8 as well helps.

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Post by propdavid_london on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 9:57 am

Also, that Worcester back Row - Hill? seemed to have a good game against Tigers. Dombrant made an impact for Quins.
Hopefully post-WC there will be a lot of guys pushing for the EPS.
Downside from their point of view - its not as if Billy V/Curry/Underhill are much older!

In fact I don't imagine there will be the usual post-WC retirement run!
Cole perhaps,
Marler again
Youngs?

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 10:05 am

Youngs is still only 30, I think he'll be eyeing another Lions tour given he bowed out of the last one. He suits Gatland's game plan as well so will have a good shot.

As for Cole and Marler it's anyone's guess. They are 32 and 29 respectively so neither are ancient for their position. I think Jones will move away from Coley anyway. Schonert I'd expect to get a chance but at 28 he's hardly a youngster himself!

Curry, Underhill, Billy and Ludlam will be around the next EPS. Wilson will hold his place too I hope. I can't see Shields or Hughes getting many more caps though so that opens the door for Mercer, Hill, Willis, Dombrandt, Earl, etc. Lots of talent on the way through.

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Post by propdavid_london on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 10:13 am

Forgot about Earl at Sarries too.
Agree, think Shields and Hughes (unless they tear up the Prem) may be the ones to loose out on the next EPS.
Although Hughes looks to have regained a bit of the form that got him initially recognised at Wasps - lets see if that continues.

Its not as if the more experienced guys currently with England are old either - Lawes/Launchbury, Joseph and Daley are still quite young too.

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 10:14 am

I was away for the first round of games so have just been catching up.

It's been an odd preseason to follow as a Tigers fan. There's a lot of talent coming through who got chances in the early games, along with good signings in Reid and Liebenberg playing well. I've also been impressed by Coghlan and I'm happy to see Calum Green has slotted into a leadership role as we direly need that in the pack.

I'm a fan of Ben White and see why he's rated by the coaches but his service and box kicking were once again so frustrating to watch. Glacial service from 9 has been an issue for Tigers season after season now.

I also found the selection of Viljeon for round 1 surprising after Forsyth had shown up well in pre-season.

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Post by propdavid_london on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 10:24 am

You will hopefully have Veianu back for a full season and he will make a big difference.

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Post by bluestonevedder on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 11:10 am

king_carlos wrote:Youngs is still only 30, I think he'll be eyeing another Lions tour given he bowed out of the last one. He suits Gatland's game plan as well so will have a good shot.

As for Cole and Marler it's anyone's guess. They are 32 and 29 respectively so neither are ancient for their position. I think Jones will move away from Coley anyway. Schonert I'd expect to get a chance but at 28 he's hardly a youngster himself!

Curry, Underhill, Billy and Ludlam will be around the next EPS. Wilson will hold his place too I hope. I can't see Shields or Hughes getting many more caps though so that opens the door for Mercer, Hill, Willis, Dombrandt, Earl, etc. Lots of talent on the way through.

Is Schonert really that good? Whenever I've seem him play he doesn't exactly jump out at being a fantastic player. What does he bring that our others front rows don't?

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 11:30 am

propdavid_london wrote:You will hopefully have Veianu back for a full season and he will make a big difference.  
TV back will be huge. Fullback was a big issue last season with TV injured and Taity retiring. Worth had a good season and Holmes slotted in well at times but I don't think fullback is either of their strongest positions.

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 11:37 am

bluestonevedder wrote:
king_carlos wrote:Youngs is still only 30, I think he'll be eyeing another Lions tour given he bowed out of the last one. He suits Gatland's game plan as well so will have a good shot.

As for Cole and Marler it's anyone's guess. They are 32 and 29 respectively so neither are ancient for their position. I think Jones will move away from Coley anyway. Schonert I'd expect to get a chance but at 28 he's hardly a youngster himself!

Curry, Underhill, Billy and Ludlam will be around the next EPS. Wilson will hold his place too I hope. I can't see Shields or Hughes getting many more caps though so that opens the door for Mercer, Hill, Willis, Dombrandt, Earl, etc. Lots of talent on the way through.

Is Schonert really that good? Whenever I've seem him play he doesn't exactly jump out at being a fantastic player. What does he bring that our others front rows don't?
I rate him highly. He's strong in set-piece and solid defensively. Whenever I watch Worcester play his workrate in fringe defence always catches my eye.

At tighthead England have plenty of players chasing Sinckler with weaknesses. Williams is a good player but I think Schonert is the better scrummager and Williams tackle technique concerns me. He loves a 'door wedge' style chop tackle, diving at a players knees with no arms.

Then there are the tightheads who have been capped then fallen off the international radar for varying reasons in Paul Hill, Henry Thomas and Will Collier.

Loosehead is a big strength for England but tighthead less so. Fortunately Sinckler has kicked on very well indeed.

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Post by propdavid_london on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 11:39 am

king_carlos wrote:
propdavid_london wrote:You will hopefully have Veianu back for a full season and he will make a big difference.  
TV back will be huge. Fullback was a big issue last season with TV injured and Taity retiring. Worth had a good season and Holmes slotted in well at times but I don't think fullback is either of their strongest positions.
Give Olowofella (sp?) time - he looks like a good prospect.

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 12:02 pm

I think Olowofela will settle on the wing if he doesn't fill out enough to play outside centre. He's very dangerous attacking from the 13 channel given his outside arc and pace but just isn't big enough there defensively yet.

Freddie Steward looks like Tigers next fullback. I really hope he starts getting game time throughout this season.

Joe Browning is the other big talent in Tigers development squad in the back three.

As has been the case for seasons I'm excited by the talent coming through but nervous about how the club will manage moving them into senior rugby. With Heyes, Reffell, White and Hardwick in the round one squad things are moving in the right direction that regard though.

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 12:40 pm

Heinrich Brussow retires with immediate effect.

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 6:22 pm

The Mail  vomit are reporting that announcement of the verdict from the inquiry into Sarries breaking the cap has been delayed until after the RWC to avoid disruption to the players in the tournament who may be affected. Premiership Rugby have reportedly taken the decision to delay announcement after the independent panel finished their inquiry.

Read into that what you will.

It seems to me that if the news was 'nothing to see here, carry on as usual' then you'd presume it would just be announced as expected though.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 6:48 pm

king_carlos wrote:
bluestonevedder wrote:
king_carlos wrote:Youngs is still only 30, I think he'll be eyeing another Lions tour given he bowed out of the last one. He suits Gatland's game plan as well so will have a good shot.

As for Cole and Marler it's anyone's guess. They are 32 and 29 respectively so neither are ancient for their position. I think Jones will move away from Coley anyway. Schonert I'd expect to get a chance but at 28 he's hardly a youngster himself!

Curry, Underhill, Billy and Ludlam will be around the next EPS. Wilson will hold his place too I hope. I can't see Shields or Hughes getting many more caps though so that opens the door for Mercer, Hill, Willis, Dombrandt, Earl, etc. Lots of talent on the way through.

Is Schonert really that good? Whenever I've seem him play he doesn't exactly jump out at being a fantastic player. What does he bring that our others front rows don't?
I rate him highly. He's strong in set-piece and solid defensively. Whenever I watch Worcester play his workrate in fringe defence always catches my eye.

At tighthead England have plenty of players chasing Sinckler with weaknesses. Williams is a good player but I think Schonert is the better scrummager and Williams tackle technique concerns me. He loves a 'door wedge' style chop tackle, diving at a players knees with no arms.

Then there are the tightheads who have been capped then fallen off the international radar for varying reasons in Paul Hill, Henry Thomas and Will Collier.

Loosehead is a big strength for England but tighthead less so. Fortunately Sinckler has kicked on very well indeed.

Schonert is a bit old school in that he does the set piece and work in the tight well with a high work rate. Given international props are now expected to carry more (Cole gets away with this by being a menace at the breakdown) I think he may be overlooked. Williams I think was dropped because despite being a unit he doesn't throw his substantial weight around enough, I suspect we'll see more from him this season. Hill is one who could be a real asset in international rugby given his ridiculous mobility, lacks size but his technique is pretty good.

I don't think Cole will retire. It'll be a case of, if England want him he'll be there but he won't be expecting the call. He's getting very close to the 100 cap mark and I bet though he won't admit it he'd quite like that accolade.

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Post by bluestonevedder on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 10:48 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:
king_carlos wrote:
bluestonevedder wrote:
king_carlos wrote:Youngs is still only 30, I think he'll be eyeing another Lions tour given he bowed out of the last one. He suits Gatland's game plan as well so will have a good shot.

As for Cole and Marler it's anyone's guess. They are 32 and 29 respectively so neither are ancient for their position. I think Jones will move away from Coley anyway. Schonert I'd expect to get a chance but at 28 he's hardly a youngster himself!

Curry, Underhill, Billy and Ludlam will be around the next EPS. Wilson will hold his place too I hope. I can't see Shields or Hughes getting many more caps though so that opens the door for Mercer, Hill, Willis, Dombrandt, Earl, etc. Lots of talent on the way through.

Is Schonert really that good? Whenever I've seem him play he doesn't exactly jump out at being a fantastic player. What does he bring that our others front rows don't?
I rate him highly. He's strong in set-piece and solid defensively. Whenever I watch Worcester play his workrate in fringe defence always catches my eye.

At tighthead England have plenty of players chasing Sinckler with weaknesses. Williams is a good player but I think Schonert is the better scrummager and Williams tackle technique concerns me. He loves a 'door wedge' style chop tackle, diving at a players knees with no arms.

Then there are the tightheads who have been capped then fallen off the international radar for varying reasons in Paul Hill, Henry Thomas and Will Collier.

Loosehead is a big strength for England but tighthead less so. Fortunately Sinckler has kicked on very well indeed.

Schonert is a bit old school in that he does the set piece and work in the tight well with a high work rate. Given international props are now expected to carry more (Cole gets away with this by being a menace at the breakdown) I think he may be overlooked. Williams I think was dropped because despite being a unit he doesn't throw his substantial weight around enough, I suspect we'll see more from him this season. Hill is one who could be a real asset in international rugby given his ridiculous mobility, lacks size but his technique is pretty good.

I don't think Cole will retire. It'll be a case of, if England want him he'll be there but he won't be expecting the call. He's getting very close to the 100 cap mark and I bet though he won't admit it he'd quite like that accolade.

Have to admit I haven't noticed Schonert but I will make an effort to keep an eye on him.

Sam, you reckon Hill will make another England squad? He was decent when he toured in Australia especially considering his age, but I guess injuries hit at the wrong time.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 2:13 pm

If Hill can get a run of games together he's exactly the type of all action player Eddie likes. Good technique which lets face it he needs as he hasn't got size and brute strength on his side. He's got to be playing regularly though at Saints haven't always back him, a move might be on the cards soon.

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