Gallagher Premiership 2019/20

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Gallagher Premiership 2019/20 - Page 5 Empty Gallagher Premiership 2019/20

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 17 Oct 2019, 2:07 pm

First topic message reminder :

Table

Pos
Team
Played
Won
Drawn
Lost
For
Against
Pts Difference
Bonus
Points
1
Northampton Saints
7
5
2
0
194
146
48
3
23
2
Exeter Chiefs
6
4
2
0
142
97
45
4
20
3
Gloucester Rugby
7
3
4
0
149
121
28
6
18
4
Bristol Bears
7
3
3
1
157
165
-8
4
18
5
Bath Rugby
7
4
3
0
139
145
-6
1
17
6
Worcester Warriors
7
4
3
0
122
144
-22
1
17
7
Sale Sharks
7
3
4
0
144
105
39
5
17
8
Harlequins
7
3
3
1
158
169
-11
3
17
9
London Irish
7
2
4
1
128
179
-51
2
12
10
Wasps
7
2
5
0
134
191
-57
3
11
11
Leicester Tigers
7
1
5
1
118
191
-76
0
6
12
Saracens
6
5
1
0
158
87
71
-32
-13


Bath
Last Season - 6th

Players in: Lewis Boyce (Prop), Christian Judge (Prop), Will Stuart (Prop), Mike Williams (Utility Forward), Josh McNally (Second Row), Ollie Fox (Scrum Half)
Promoted from Academy: Miles Reid, Will Vaughan, Sam Nixon, Tom de Glanville, Will Britton, Jack Davies, Tom Doughty, Levi Davis promoted (X Factor permitting)

Players Out: Dave Attwood (Second Row), Paul Grant (Back Row), Luke Charteris (Second Row), James Wilson (Utility Back), Kahn Fotuali'i (Scrum Half), Jacques van Rooyen (Prop), Jack Wilson (Wing), Cooper Vuna (Wing), Anthony Perenise (Prop), Michael van Vuuren (Hooker), Max Lahiff (Prop)


Bristol Bears
Last Season - 9th

Players in: Dave Attwood (Second Row), Nathan Hughes (Back Row), Nicky Thomas (Prop), Max Lahiff (Prop), Tyrese Johnson-Fisher (Wing)
Promoted from Academy: Sam Bedlow, John Hawkins, Toby Fricker

Players out: Nick Haining (Back Row), George Smith (Back Row), Nick Fenton-Wells (Back Row), Joe Latta (Second Row), Tusi Pisi (Fly Half), Sione Faletau (Prop), Jack Lam (Back Row)


Exeter Chiefs
Last Season: Runners Up

Players in: Stuart Hogg (Full Back), Will Witty (Second Row), Tom Price (Second Row), Stan South (Utility Forward), Jannes Kirsten (Utility Forward), Jacques Vermeulen (Utility Forward)

Players out: Santiago Cordero (Wing/FB), Tom Lawday (Back Row), Moray Low (Prop), Ollie Atkins (Second Row), Mitch Lees (Second Row)


Gloucester
Last Season: 3rd

Players in: Joe Simpson (Scrum Half), Jamal Ford-Robinson (Prop), Chris Harris (Centre), Corne Fourie (Prop)
Promoted from Academy: Charlie Chapman, Alex Seville, Alex Craig, Ciaran Knight, Tom Seabrook, Henry Walker

Players out: Paddy McAllister (Prop), Gareth Denman (Prop), Kyle Traynor (Prop) Tom Savage (Second Row), Gareth Evans (Back Row), Ben Vellacott (Scrum Half), Henry Purdy (Centre/Wing)


Harlequins
Last Season 4th

Players in: Santiago Garcias Botta (Prop), Martin Landajo (Scrum Half), Michele Campagnaro (Centre), Scott Baldwin (Hooker), Stephan Lewies (Second Row), Glen Young (Second Row), Will Evans (Flanker), Simon Kerrod (Prop), Tom Lawday (Back Row), Travis Ismaiel (Wing), Veriniki Goneva (Wing), Tevita Cavubati (Second Row)

Players out: Alofa Alofa (Utility Back), George Merrick (Second Row), Lewis Boyce (Prop), James Horwill (Second Row), Josh Ibuanokpe (Prop), Tim Visser (Wing), Charlie Walker(Wing), Demitir Catrakilis (Fly Half), Mat Luamanu (Back Row), Luke Wallace (Flanker), Stan South (Second Row), Dave Ward (Hooker), Dave Lewis (Scrum Half), Ben Glynn (Second Row)


Leicester Tigers
Last season 11th

Players in: Jordan Taufua (Back Row), Noel Reid (Fly Half/Centre), Calum Green (Second Row), Jaco Taute (Centre), Tomas Lavanini (Second Row), Nephi Leatigaga (Prop), Charlie Clare (Hooker), Joe Thomas (Centre), Johnny McPhillips (Fly Half), EW Viljoen (Utility Back), Hanro Liebenberg (Back Row), Jordan Coghlan (Back Row)
Promoted from Academy: Tom Hardwicke, Joe Heyes, Sam Lewis, Jordan Olowefela, Tommy Reffell, Sam Aspland Robinson, Harry Simmons, Ben White

Players out: Matt Toomua (Centre), Mike Williams (Utility Forward), Graham Kitchener (Second Row), Mathew Tait (Utility Back), Will Evans (Flanker), Tom Varndell (Winger), James Voss (Second Row), Matt Smith (Centre), Gareth Owen (Centre), Michael Fitzgerald (Second Row), Brendon O'Connor (Back Row), Valentino Mapapalangi (Back Row), Fred Tuilagi (Back Row), Leonardo Sarto (Wing),  Joe Ford (Fly Half), David Feao (Prop), David Denton (Back Row), Ross McMillan (Hooker), Campese Ma'afu (Prop), Charlie Thacker (Centre)


London Irish
Last Season: Promoted

Players in: Allan Dell (Prop), Nick Phipps (Scrum Half), Curtis Rona (Wing), Sean O'Brien (Back Row), Sekope Kepu (Prop), Paddy Jackson (Fly Half), Waisake Naholo (Wing), Adam Coleman (Second Row), Ruan Botha (Second Row), Steve Mafi (Utility Forward), George Nott (Utility Forward)

Players Out: Josh McNally (Second Row), Ian Keatley (Fly Half), Brendan McKibbin (Centre), Mike Coman (Back Row), Tommy Bell (Utility Back), Topsy Ojo (Wing), Fergus Mulchrone (Centre), Luke McLean (Full Back), Sebastian de Chaves (Second Row), Ofisa Treviranus (Back Row), Greig Tonks (Utility Back),  Napolioni Nalaga (Wing), Sam Twomey (Second Row), Filo Paulo (Second Row), Manasa Saulo (Prop)


Northampton Saints
Last Season: 4th

Players in: Matt Proctor (Utility back), Owen Franks (Prop), Ryan Olowofela (Wing), Henry Taylor (Scrum Half), Michael van Vuuren (Hooker)
Promoted from Academy: Ehren Painter, Fraser Dingwall,  James Grayson,  Alex Mitchell,  Alex Moon

Players Out: Luther Burrell (Centre), Jamal Ford-Robinson (Prop), James Craig (Utility Forward), James Haskell (Back Row), Dominic Barrow (Second Row), Nafi Tuitavake (Wing), Ken Pisi (Centre)


Sale Sharks
Last Season: 7th

Players in: Jake Cooper-Woolley (Prop), Robert du Preez (Fly Half), Akker van der Merwe (Hooker), Lood de Jager (Second Row), Coenie Oosthuizen (Prop), Dan du Preez (Utility Forward), Jean-Luc du Preez (Back Row), Simon Hammersley (Full Back), Mark Wilson (Back Row)

Players Out: Andrei Ostrikov (Second Row), Mark Jennings (Centre), Alexandru Țăruș (Prop), Johnny Leota (Centre),  Paolo Odogwu (Wing), James O'Connor (Utility Back), Josh Strauss (Back Row), George Nott (Utility Forward)


Saracens
Last Season: Champions

Players in: Elliot Daly (Utility back), Rhys Carré (Prop), Jack Singleton (Hooker), Josh Ibuanokpe (Prop)
Promoted from Academy: Alistair Crossdale, Dominic Morris

Players out: Christopher Tolofua (Hooker), Sione Vailanu (Back Row), Hayden Thompson-Stringer (Prop), David Strettle (Wing), Henry Taylor (Scrum Half) Dominic Day (Second Row), Marcelo Bosch (Centre), Schalk Burger (Back Row)


Wasps
Last Season: 8th

Players in: Malakai Fekitoa (Centre), Jeffery Toomaga-Allen (Prop), Ben Vellacott (Scrum Half), Matteo Minozzi (Utility back), Sione Vailanu (Back row), Biyi Alo (Prop), Paolo Odogwu (Wing), Zach Kibirige (wing)
Promoted from academy:  Will Porter,  Callum Sirker,  Sam Spink,  Tom Willis,  Tim Cardall,  Gabriel Oghre,  Owain James, Jacob Umaga

Players out: Jake Cooper-Woolley (Prop), Nathan Hughes (Back row), Will Stuart (Prop), Elliot Daly (Centre), Joe Simpson (Scrum half), Willie le Roux (Full Back), Michele Campagnaro (Centre), Kearnan Myall (Second Row), Gabiriele Lovobalavu (Centre), Matt Mullan (Prop)


Worcester Warriors
Last Season 10th

Players in: Graham Kitchener (Second Row), Jono Kitto (Scrum Half), Melani Nanai (Wing), Ed Fidow (Wing)
Promoted from Academy: Andrew Kitchener,  Ted Hill

Players out:  Bryce Heem (Wing), Josh Adams (Wing), Darren Barry (Second Row), Wynand Olivier (Centre), Dewald Potgieter (Back row), Jack Singleton (Hooker), Jonny Arr (Scrum half), Carl Kirwan (Back row), Luke Baldwin (Scrum Half), Ben Te'o (Centre), Alafoti Fa'osiliva (Back row)


Last edited by LondonTiger on Sun 29 Dec 2019, 2:04 pm; edited 10 times in total

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Post by TightHEAD on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 3:56 pm

tomato There were others no doubt but those clubs agreed to abide by the salary cap a few years ago for the good of the game, Sarries clearly thought the rules didn't apply to them and Cheated. 'Again'
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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 3:58 pm

I still look at some squads and wonder how they are fitting under the cap.

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Post by TightHEAD on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 3:59 pm

Name and shame them.
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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 10:11 am

OP updated with the table.

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Post by TightHEAD on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 10:46 am

Not the official table though!
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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 11:46 am

Ouch, there's no way in hell Saracens can make the top 6 even if they don't bother with the Champs Cup.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 12:30 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Ouch, there's no way in hell Saracens can make the top 6 even if they don't bother with the Champs Cup.

Their main problem, assuming the punishments stand, are that they will be losing players for 6 matches during the 6Ns. Having lost on the opening weekend, they have won their last 3 matches so will be making strides to overhaul Tigers irrespective of the deduction. If they had lost 35 points they would have had teh following:

2019 43
2018 42
2017 42
2016 45
2015 33
2014 52
2013 42
2012 38
2011 41
2010 34

In none of those seasons would they have either been relegated or made the Top 6. As you say Top 6 is pretty much impossible with a 35 point deduction, so their whole focus will be on making up the gap to the team in 11th. Even 40pts may not be safe this season.

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Post by Margin_Walker on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 1:25 pm

40 points will be enough for safety imo. Looking pretty likely that the relegated team will get over 30 points though which is uncommon enough these days.

Sarries should be absolutely fine on the relegation front unless the scoreboard pressure starts doing funny things to them.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 1:43 pm

I reckon we will get 40-45 points, and I do not see any teams worse than us.

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Post by TightHEAD on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 2:06 pm

Sarries will make the top 6, siege mentality is a powerful force within sports teams.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 2:46 pm

LondonTiger wrote:I reckon we will get 40-45 points, and I do not see any teams worse than us.

That's disappointing when considering the names in the squad.

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Post by Heaf on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 2:51 pm

Margin_Walker wrote:40 points will be enough for safety imo. Looking pretty likely that the relegated team will get over 30 points though which is uncommon enough these days.

Sarries should be absolutely fine on the relegation front unless the scoreboard pressure starts doing funny things to them.

They've already been gifted 2 points they shouldn't have had ...

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 3:26 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:I reckon we will get 40-45 points, and I do not see any teams worse than us.

That's disappointing when considering the names in the squad.

The depth in our squad is poor.

The pack is much improved so far this season and is good enough for the upper-middle table. Our backs without the world cup mob is barely above championship standard. Our defence is still a weakness if improved, and it is hard to see any discernible attacking plan. At full strength we could be pushing for a European place, but doubt we will ever be close to full strength for more than an odd game here or there.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 3:34 pm

To be fair to the backs on display it was more than just the world cup mob missing. No Taute, Viljoen, Eastmond and TV removed any top level experience from our midfield and the talisman from our back three. Missing more than a full backline of talent (most of which have been called internationally) would hurt any team on the league, apart from Sarries...

Attacking game plan has to go up a couple of levels quickly otherwise we're going to be in trouble.

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 14 Nov 2019, 7:15 am

Odogwu given a 6 week ban, Brew 3. Both halved down to that figure for previous record etc.

Interestingly they moved the Odogwu incident from mid to top range due to his actions after being sanctioned. So we have the slightly weird situation where the ban is increased due to poor behaviour then reduced due to good behaviour.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 14 Nov 2019, 9:45 am

Ha very good LT. His actions after he was sent off was a bit more football than rugby. Don't need to see that in the game.

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Post by TightHEAD on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 12:19 pm

Saracens have confirmed they will not be contesting their points deduction and fine for breaching the league's salary cap.

Good for them.
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Post by yappysnap on Wed 20 Nov 2019, 6:07 pm

So I think I just heard that Saracens will need to win 10 of their next 18 games to avoid relegation, does that sound about right?

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Post by king_carlos on Wed 20 Nov 2019, 7:28 pm

If relegation zone is in the 40 point region then Sarries need 62 points from 18 games to reach it. Possibly more if competition at the lower end of the table raises that mark to 45 points.

With TBPs and LBPs that will probably be around the 10-11 win mark, yes.

It's going to be very tight at the bottom of the table.

Leicester and Wasps have played the worst rugby so far. I think the Bath forwards and LI backs will come under pressure as the season goes on. Worcester are strong at home but that may not be enough this season.

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Post by king_carlos on Fri 22 Nov 2019, 4:13 pm

Tough news day for Bath with Cokanasiga out long term, Henry Thomas missing the season with an ACL and Zach Mercer also seeing a specialist to find out the extent of his knee injury.

Henry Thomas has had no luck with injury. When he signed from Sale he looked a top talent with great hands in the loose. He was a good scrummager with the old laws allowing the hit as well.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Fri 22 Nov 2019, 7:34 pm

The annual season ending injury for Thomas isn't the nightmare it is normally for Bath. They've recruited well at tighthead so for once have some options. Cockanasiga and Mercer are losses, that kind of impact you can't replace easily.

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 28 Nov 2019, 12:03 pm

Saracens team to face Bath on Friday 29th November at The Rec (KO 19H45):

15 Elliot Daly (1)
14 Sean Maitland (67)
13 Duncan Taylor (119)
12 Brad Barritt © (248)
11 Alex Lewington (36)
10 Owen Farrell (193)
9 Richard Wigglesworth (236)
1 Mako Vunipola (161)
2 Jamie George (220)
3 Titi Lamositele (81)
4 Will Skelton (68)
5 George Kruis (179)
6 Maro Itoje (113)
7 Jackson Wray (233)
8 Billy Vunipola (104)

Replacements
16 Jack Singleton (3)
17 Richard Barrington (178)
18 Vincent Koch (69)
19 Nick Isiekwe (73)
20 Ben Earl (48)
21 Ben Spencer (162)
22 Manu Vunipola (12)
23 Nick Tompkins (111)

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 28 Nov 2019, 12:05 pm

Bath Rugby team to face Saracens

15. Tom Homer
14. Semesa Rokoduguni
13. Max Wright
12. Jamie Roberts
11. Ruaridh McConnochie
10. Rhys Priestland
9. Will Chudley
1. Beno Obano
2. Tom Dunn
3. Will Stuart
4. Josh McNally
5. Elliott Stooke
6. Josh Bayliss
7. Sam Underhill
8. Francois Louw (c)

Replacements
16. Jack Walker
17. Lewis Boyce
18. Christian Judge
19. Matt Garvey
20. Rhys Davies
21. Chris Cook
22. Freddie Burns
23. Gabe Hamer-Webb

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 28 Nov 2019, 12:06 pm

Sarries going as full strength as they can it seems. 13 internationals start and another 4 on the bench.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Thu 28 Nov 2019, 12:13 pm

Bath have to hope the conditions are bad and they can target the breakdown. Louw and Underhill Vs no starting openside for Sarries. Farrell will be sending some bombs up though so the Bath back three better be ready.

With home advantage of expect Bath to keep it close until half time and then Sarries to ease away in the second half.

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Post by bluestonevedder on Thu 28 Nov 2019, 12:22 pm

If Earl gets on, him versus Underhill would be a heck of a spectacle. 

Pretty unbelievable team from Sarries. Bath would do well to keep this close I think.

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Post by Cumbrian on Thu 28 Nov 2019, 1:49 pm

First Friday of the Christmas market, cold dry night and Bath playing rugby at home. City centre is going to be carnage by about 6:30pm tomorrow.
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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 28 Nov 2019, 2:14 pm

Bath vs Cheaters.

Can only see this going one way, Bath are dire at the moment, the sooner we leave the Rec and build a new stadium that players want to play in the better.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 28 Nov 2019, 6:37 pm

What sort of position does Mallinder have with Scottish rugby, and is it long-term? There's a head coach opportunity available somewhere in Wales if he's interested - I can't say where yet because this team are yet to release an official statement...

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Post by yappysnap on Thu 28 Nov 2019, 9:50 pm

Damn that's a strong Sarries team.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 29 Nov 2019, 9:39 pm

Not even a bonus point for Bath. They seem to have a lot of good players but just look toothless.

I see Mike Bown is out for the rest of the season with a knee injury.

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 30 Nov 2019, 12:23 am

Brown, Robshaw and Care are Harlequins greats who have had very good international careers with 222 England caps between them. All three re-signed whilst still internationals though and I do wonder how much of Quins cap is tied up in those three stalwarts.

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Post by LondonTiger on Sat 30 Nov 2019, 7:05 am

Rugby Fan wrote:

I see Mike Bown is out for the rest of the season with a knee injury.

According to article I read, he injured the knee in pre-season and has been playing through it. The knee has worsened and he is now to have surgery. He turns 35 at start of next season, so no guarantee he can come back from this.

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Post by LondonTiger on Sat 30 Nov 2019, 7:07 am

king_carlos wrote:Brown, Robshaw and Care are Harlequins greats who have had very good international careers with 222 England caps between them. All three re-signed whilst still internationals though and I do wonder how much of Quins cap is tied up in those three stalwarts.

Marler also signed a massive contract last time out, which was good value until his return to England duties.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Sat 30 Nov 2019, 7:11 pm

Just watched the Saints - Tigers game, Tigers really have to get some fresh blood, Cole, Youngs (both) and just about the whole of their back line need replacing. They just could not get their key players like Manu into the game. Ford was way off form, May was living on scraps. On current form, relegation material.

Saints however have produced an abundance of new talent and the old is still playing very well. Harrison is turning into a born leader; probably not international quality , but a very good premiership 8 and seems to have the ear of the ref. Waller was turned away, the ref only wanted to talk to Harrison.

In Furbank, Saints have unearthed a gem. \think of a smaller Daly, but one who can catch the ball under pressure, pace, step, an eye for space, boomer of a boot, seems to be the perfect 15 along with Hutchinson and Collins they ripped Tigers apart, Naiyaravoro just blasted them to pieces, nothing subtle, raw power and an ability to offload in impossible situations.

Like England, Saints have locks in abundance 2nd/3rd string today, still to much for Tigers, Props like the Frank brothers to teach the young tyros like Painter (21stone of him), centres like Proctor to teach (or possibly learn from the way they are playing) the very young backs coming through. A massive game today, looked like he was in training the way he tore through Tigers defense.

The future is bright, the future is Green Black and Gold

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Post by yappysnap on Sat 30 Nov 2019, 7:25 pm

Wow what is wrong with Tigers?!

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 30 Nov 2019, 8:36 pm

yappysnap wrote:Wow what is wrong with Tigers?!


That is a very long answer and I won't go into all of that now.

Slightly bemusing how a scratch team made up of mainly third choice and youngsters can go to Cardiff and beat virtually the strongest team they can put out and then the first team fail to land a blow on what is a good but not great Saints team.

There's some obvious excuses in the number of injuries to the backrow and the fact the midfield has never played together before. Certainly losing Holmes won't have helped as our back three options seem made of paper and seem to be consistently injured this season. All do not allow for a loss of this amount in the derby game. Some big names are out of contract this season and there is a growing feeling that some should be released.

The coaching structure will be lucky to last the weekend. Currently only Stankovitch the scrum coach has any real goodwill with the fan base. When the fans consider that the club past up the chance to go for Ackerman or Van Graan and instead appoint complete mediocrity in Matt O'Connor and then when he left not to act at the end of the season and rival Saints for Boyd but to let the matter drift on and then dither pathetically leaving Geordie well out of his depth purely for his love of the club. We have managed to give anyone with a Tigers history a shot except of course Vesty the one former Tiger that has shown real coaching ability at Worcester no Saints picked him up and now have a wonderfully mixed attacking game whilst Mike Ford can't get us to string two passes together. The board are under plenty of pressure themselves as the fans ire is falling upon them and their incompetence as much as it is the coaching staff.

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Post by king_carlos on Sun 01 Dec 2019, 12:51 am

I reckon that Sarries will finish the regular season around 45 points after their deduction. Currently I can't see where Tigers pick up that many wins from. Worrying times.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Sun 01 Dec 2019, 10:40 am

"Slightly bemusing how a scratch team made up of mainly third choice and youngsters can go to Cardiff and beat virtually the strongest team they can put out and then the first team fail to land a blow on what is a good but not great Saints team."

It is a team that is sitting at the top of the GP though and who have scored 40% more points than anyone else. Apart t=from that aberration at The Rec, they have blown away just about everyone else they have played in the GP, 40 points vs Quins, 35 against Warriors, even a win against Sarries away. Sarries hit hard by RWC but Saints had 8 players there or on standby abroad as well.

Tigers just had no fluidity about them, it wasn't the skill set that was lacking, but they looked like they had all just turned up having never played together before. How can you have a player like Manu and just not give him the ball at every opportunity you get. Saints have ( one player apart) a small backline, I would have though Manu would have been running at them all afternoon. Instead Saints their version of Manu, Naiyaravoro, running at him and he made good ground every time.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 01 Dec 2019, 11:48 am

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:"Slightly bemusing how a scratch team made up of mainly third choice and youngsters can go to Cardiff and beat virtually the strongest team they can put out and then the first team fail to land a blow on what is a good but not great Saints team."

It is a team that is sitting at the top of the GP though and who have scored 40% more points than anyone else. Apart t=from that aberration at The Rec, they have blown away just about everyone else they have played in the GP, 40 points vs Quins, 35 against Warriors, even a win against Sarries away. Sarries hit hard by RWC but Saints had 8 players there or on standby abroad as well.

Tigers just had no fluidity about them, it wasn't the skill set that was lacking, but they looked like they had all just turned up having never played together before. How can you have a player like Manu and just not give him the ball at every opportunity you get. Saints have ( one player apart) a small backline, I would have though Manu would have been running at them all afternoon. Instead Saints their version of Manu, Naiyaravoro, running at him and he made good ground every time.

Saints weathered the RWC spell well and have the ground running. It's helped that the areas where they had internationals they've got depth it's only really Reinach they've missed. Losing to Bath is very much a shocker, they'll need to be more ruthless. I say good because I don't think Saints have really hit their straps yet, running through a crap Tigers side is nothing to boast about. Now if they can get something from Leinster home and away they'll have moved up an extra gear and will be really flying.

Tigers have underused Manu for some time. Admittedly we rarely have any forward momentum to launch him from. Our attack coach looks like he's off to Fiji shortly so good riddance and hopefully someone with some vision will be found. The complete lack of attacking structure this season is embarrassing really the club had a long enough pre season to sort this out and whilst we missed a large selection of internationals we could have briefed them on the plans whilst they were away and on their return. It's simply appalling.

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Post by Heaf on Sun 01 Dec 2019, 3:58 pm

Frustrating or what - LI go in 7-3 up but now will probably be lucky to get anything after a red card just before half time Sad

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Post by Heaf on Sun 01 Dec 2019, 4:48 pm

Here's a question of law - seen a couple of times (including just in the Quins match) a player gang tackled and dragged into touch - however his knee touched the ground about 5m before they all ended up in touch - shouldn't that be tackled so released as soon as his knee hits the ground?

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Post by Heaf on Sun 01 Dec 2019, 5:12 pm

Wow what a result - maybe LI would have got 5 points if they'd kept 15 on the pitch - very promising signs as Bristol are no mugs, especially at home.

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Post by king_carlos on Sun 01 Dec 2019, 6:44 pm

Tigers - 4 to 1
Wasps - 8 to 1
London Irish - 3 to 1
Worcester - 11 to 3
Bath - 14 to 1

Odds on relegation candidates for what it's worth. To be honest I've no idea how Worcester are sitting at worse odds than Bath, Wasps or Tigers. They are a well put together team who do well at home.

I'd have Bath at significantly worse odds as well to be honest. I've said it a few times but their front 5 is suspect and if they don't get enough games out of Underhill, Louw, Mercer and Faletau then their excellent backs will do little to help them. Excellent back row on paper but I have doubts over the course of the season.

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Post by Ozzy3213 on Sun 01 Dec 2019, 7:09 pm

Bath lack depth. Behind the four back rows you mention there is little there, and their backs flatter to deceive.
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Post by Gooseberry on Sun 01 Dec 2019, 7:14 pm

Looking at the table now, 5 or 6 years ago you'd think it was upside down. The world cups obviously had an impact but it does show the cap works as a bit of a leveler when teams stick to it.

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Post by propdavid_london on Mon 02 Dec 2019, 8:55 am

Quins struggled for their win on Sunday. But, a win is a win and it was needed.

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Post by TightHEAD on Mon 02 Dec 2019, 9:29 am

Bath, Wasps or Leicester will go down.

Don't want rugby to follow football but clearly new faces are needed at all three in the coaching department.
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Post by propdavid_london on Mon 02 Dec 2019, 10:01 am

I am sure that the prem table will balance out by mid season.

There is no doubt that the teams expected to be in the lower half of the table have performed much better.

Tigers have been on a downward trajectory for a few years (sorry to say it), but I feel there are structural changes that need to be made.
Wasps I kind of put in the same category as Quins - they tend to field light weight packs that really struggle at the moment (I am sure there is a stat disproving that, but its my perception). They struggle with the more physical sides, both will do better in the warmer months.
Bath, not sure what the issue is there! But at some point it will click and they will start picking up points.

The question is not only will the sides mentioned above start firing, but have LI and Worc got the squad depth to cope when they start picking up injuries?

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Post by bathmad on Mon 02 Dec 2019, 10:57 am

TightHEAD wrote:Bath, Wasps or Leicester will go down.

Don't want rugby to follow football but clearly new faces are needed at all three in the coaching department.

Wasps can still play some rugby and get a result here or there. I can't see past Bath or Leicester as relegation favourites now.
Neither seem capable of constructing and executing a game plan. When you look at the quality between the 2 backlines in particular of those 2 teams, it beggars belief really.

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