SF2 - Match Thread - WALES v SOUTH AFRICA - 27/10/19 - K/O 09:00 GMT

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Post by miaow on Thu 17 Oct 2019, 9:56 pm

First topic message reminder :

Again, making these early for the sake of ease and consistency.

WALES

Team:Halfpenny; North, J Davies, Parkes, Adams; Biggar, G Davies; Wyn Jones, Owens, Francis, Ball, Alun Wyn Jones (capt), Wainwright, Moriarty, Tipuric.

Replacements: Dee, R Carre, D Lewis, Beard, Shingler, T Williams, Patchell, Watkin.

SOUTH AFRICA

South Africa: Le Roux; Nkosi, Am, De Allende, Mapimpi; Pollard, De Klerk; Mtawarira, Mbonambi, Malherbe, Etzebeth, De Jager, Kolisi (capt), Du Toit, Vermeulen

Replacements: Marx, Kitschoff, Koch, Snyman, Mostert, Louw, H Jantjies, Steyn



Venue: Yokohama
Referee:
AR1:
AR2:
TMO:


Last edited by miaow on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 1:51 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Post by Taylorman on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 5:49 pm

Don’t recall his efforts in those particular matches, though going from 57-0 to a ‘should have lost’ Garces effort three weeks later doesn’t fill me with confidence.

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Post by miaow on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 6:56 pm

Why? Happened this year with Australia?

Unless the issue is the refereeing in the nilled games?

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Post by maestegmafia on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 7:16 pm

I’m guessing team will be announced tomorrow evening...!

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Post by miaow on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 7:22 pm

Sunday game, maes, so I'd imagine Thursday if not Friday.

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Post by maestegmafia on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 7:32 pm

miaow wrote:Sunday game, maes, so I'd imagine Thursday if not Friday.

Weeks seem to take months at the moment don’t they...!

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Post by majesticimperialman on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 7:52 pm

Who are the officials for the game?

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Post by majesticimperialman on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 8:06 pm

My understanding in Josh Navidi is out of the rest of the tournament. and Wales have called up Owen Lane.

I thought if a player was ruled out through injury, he could only be replaced by a player in the same position. is this right? Owen Lane is a wing/centre. And navidi is a back row player/flanker. 

So how can this be right?

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Post by maestegmafia on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 8:07 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:My understanding in Josh Navidi is out of the rest of the tournament. and Wales have called up Owen Lane.

I thought if a player was ruled out through injury, he could only be replaced by a player in the same position. is this right? Owen Lane is a wing/centre. And navidi is a back row player/flanker. 

So how can this be right?

Yes that’s right.

We are cheating, we all asked Gatland to do it too.

Don’t tell anyone else we might get thrown out of the RWC.

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Post by Scottrf on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 8:07 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:My understanding in Josh Navidi is out of the rest of the tournament. and Wales have called up Owen Lane.

I thought if a player was ruled out through injury, he could only be replaced by a player in the same position. is this right? Owen Lane is a wing/centre. And navidi is a back row player/flanker. 

So how can this be right?

Doesn't have to be like for like.

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 8:11 pm

miaow wrote:
BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Should really be the third/ fourt play off game.

Yet Wales is the only team to have won all their scheduled games, and SA at lest played all of theirs? Erm

Yet the All Blacks and England are first and second favourites to lift the cup.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 8:15 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:My understanding in Josh Navidi is out of the rest of the tournament. and Wales have called up Owen Lane.

I thought if a player was ruled out through injury, he could only be replaced by a player in the same position. is this right? Owen Lane is a wing/centre. And navidi is a back row player/flanker. 

So how can this be right?

Yes that’s right.

We are cheating, we all asked Gatland to do it too.

Don’t tell anyone else we might get thrown out of the RWC.
I was asking a serious (QUESTION ) I was hoping for a genuine reply.

And not some sarcastic remark about (CHEATING) " DID I SAY WALES WAS CHEATING"?


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Post by miaow on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 8:28 pm

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:
miaow wrote:
BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Should really be the third/ fourt play off game.

Yet Wales is the only team to have won all their scheduled games, and SA at lest played all of theirs? Erm

Yet the All Blacks and England are first and second favourites to lift the cup.

Good job we don't decide sport on who the 'favourites' are, then, eh?

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Post by Cyril on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 8:33 pm

Miaow, you don’t become favourites by winning or completing all your pool games.

I think it’s s fair shout to say that whoever wins the first semi final will be favourites to win the final. It’s either going to be NZ or the side that beat them.

Having said that, you also can’t argue that the best four sides in the world currently are contesting the business end.

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Post by Taylorman on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 8:51 pm

Cyril wrote:Miaow, you don’t become favourites by winning or completing all your pool games.

I think it’s s fair shout to say that whoever wins the first semi final will be favourites to win the final. It’s either going to be NZ or the side that beat them.

Having said that, you also can’t argue that the best four sides in the world currently are contesting the business end.

That I agree with. Based on the quarters, Wales wont be winning this tournament. Whether that changes is yet to be seen.

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Post by miaow on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 8:54 pm

Cyril, I'm not arguing against the favouritism tag. I'm suggesting it's pointless and whiny to come on a Wales thread to announce that this should be the bronze medal game instead of what it is - a game where the winner will be in the final. It seems the QF performances are being used to come to that conclusion, rather than what's gone before - SA pushed NZ and swept everyone else away, and also put in a solid, professional performane v Japan. Wales had a tough old group (Georgia, Uruguay, and in particular Fiji are no mugs), managed to top it, and despite the short turnaround from the final group game, and France being rested, found a way to win. In my opinion, it's not glaring that England are that far ahead of Wales or SA, so it's a silly comment to make, and not one that's going to be well received by either Wales or Boks fans, either, for obvious reasons.

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Post by miaow on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 8:55 pm

Taylorman wrote:
Cyril wrote:Miaow, you don’t become favourites by winning or completing all your pool games.

I think it’s s fair shout to say that whoever wins the first semi final will be favourites to win the final. It’s either going to be NZ or the side that beat them.

Having said that, you also can’t argue that the best four sides in the world currently are contesting the business end.

That I agree with. Based on the quarters, Wales wont be winning this tournament. Whether that changes is yet to be seen.

Lol. Case in point.

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Post by maestegmafia on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 8:56 pm

Pretty happy to be underdogs Taylor.

Even happier to be completely written off.

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Post by Scottrf on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 8:57 pm

miaow wrote: Wales had a tough old group (Georgia, Uruguay, and in particular Fiji are no mugs).

Interesting...

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Post by Taylorman on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 9:00 pm

miaow wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Cyril wrote:Miaow, you don’t become favourites by winning or completing all your pool games.

I think it’s s fair shout to say that whoever wins the first semi final will be favourites to win the final. It’s either going to be NZ or the side that beat them.

Having said that, you also can’t argue that the best four sides in the world currently are contesting the business end.

That I agree with. Based on the quarters, Wales wont be winning this tournament. Whether that changes is yet to be seen.

Lol. Case in point.

'it's pointless and whiny'...I bow to your expertise in that area. thumbsup

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Post by Taylorman on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 9:04 pm

maestegmafia wrote:Pretty happy to be underdogs Taylor.

Even happier to be completely written off.

Yep thats why I limited it to the quarters result.

Reason I did that is because Gats, and therefore Wales/ the Lions have 'been told he's not going to win' before, and has. Wales also didnt get to the semis without considerable improvement over the last year or two.

Quarters alone, definite underdogs...after that, who knows. That can be a good thing. (Though the Boks are well aware of that concept themselves).

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Post by Taylorman on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 9:06 pm

Four SH coaches in the semi's huh? Same as 2015, how nice... thumbsup

Shopping time? Whistle

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Post by maestegmafia on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 9:10 pm

Taylorman wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Pretty happy to be underdogs Taylor.

Even happier to be completely written off.

Yep thats why I limited it to the quarters result.

Reason I did that is because Gats, and therefore Wales/ the Lions have 'been told he's not going to win' before, and has. Wales also didnt get to the semis without considerable improvement over the last year or two.

Quarters alone, definite underdogs...after that, who knows. That can be a good thing. (Though the Boks are well aware of that concept themselves).

I don’t think the Welsh team have become too accustomed to being the favourites yet. I’m sure they can remember how to be plucky.


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Post by miaow on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 9:14 pm

Taylorman wrote:Reason I did that is because Gats, and therefore Wales/ the Lions have 'been told he's not going to win' before, and has. Wales also didnt get to the semis without considerable improvement over the last year or two.

I think your knowledge of Welsh rugby and its improvement could be condensed in to 1 tweet tbh. No considerable improvement whatsoever. Tinkering. SF in 2011, late try in the QF in 2015 - 1 v 2 v 1 6Ns title in the 3 WC cycles Gatland's been at the helm. Just stop making things up - you don't have to pretend to be an expert. It's an unhealthy thing to think you need to know what you're talking about at all times.

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Post by Cyril on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 9:46 pm

Miaow, to be fair, what you accuse Taylorman of being is exactly as you appear on here. Every article is you and him (sometime you and another) doing exactly that.

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Post by maestegmafia on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 9:51 pm

Matt Proudfoot SACoach wrote:


They are a formidable side, an unbelievable rugby side. They have great confidence in the way that they play. Wales play to their plan. The way they played against Australia was incredible.

France had to risk it against them (in last Sunday’s quarter-final), and they did, but Wales still won. They are a very well-coached side.

They are a fantastic defensive outfit, so they are a very formidable pack, and they have one of the most experienced Test captains (Alun Wyn Jones) around.

That pack has been the heartbeat of a British and Irish Lions pack that’s been to New Zealand, so to go there and win a Test match you’ve got to be a formidable side.

We’ve played three matches in Cardiff, and one in Washington DC, where we had to juggle the two teams because we had England the next weekend, so it’s always been a tough ask. Most of the time, the Cardiff Test was outside the (autumn) Test window.

So, it’s nice that it will be on neutral ground and we’ve got a full squad to pick from. That really bodes well for us – we’ve got the team we want, and we are on a neutral ground.

I suppose they (Wales) can say the same thing, and now it’s two teams having a go at each other.




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Post by Taylorman on Tue 22 Oct 2019, 10:05 pm

Yep, about covers it...

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Post by Pie on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 6:18 am

What a load of @#$%^. They played test matches 1 week apart and lost. We've won 5 out of the last 6 going back 5 years now and this weekend will be no different.

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Post by Pie on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 6:20 am

maestegmafia wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Pretty happy to be underdogs Taylor.

Even happier to be completely written off.

Yep thats why I limited it to the quarters result.

Reason I did that is because Gats, and therefore Wales/ the Lions have 'been told he's not going to win' before, and has. Wales also didnt get to the semis without considerable improvement over the last year or two.

Quarters alone, definite underdogs...after that, who knows. That can be a good thing. (Though the Boks are well aware of that concept themselves).

I don’t think the Welsh team have become too accustomed to being the favourites yet. I’m sure they can remember how to be plucky.


You used to have a pair, do you remember that? Laugh

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Post by maestegmafia on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 9:13 am

Pie wrote:What a load of @#$%^. They played test matches 1 week apart and lost. We've won 5 out of the last 6 going back 5 years now and this weekend will be no different.

We were also unable to pick our best squads for the games he mentions either due to English clubs not wanting to release welsh players or because all our top players were on the lions tour to NZ.

You have to remember that SA see NZ as their only true Rivals at the top of the rugby union. Unlike the All Blacks they had never lost a test to wales until 1999, bar the 1974 lions tour. They are struggling to get to grips with the way the teams are ranked today...

Very exciting few days of anticipation before this one.

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Post by Galted on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 9:26 am

maestegmafia wrote:
Pie wrote:What a load of @#$%^. They played test matches 1 week apart and lost. We've won 5 out of the last 6 going back 5 years now and this weekend will be no different.

We were also unable to pick our best squads for the games he mentions either due to English clubs not wanting to release welsh players or because all our top players were on the lions tour to NZ.

You have to remember that SA see NZ as their only true Rivals at the top of the rugby union. Unlike the All Blacks they had never lost a test to wales until 1999, bar the 1974 lions tour. They are struggling to get to grips with the way the teams are ranked today...

Very exciting few days of anticipation before this one.

He did mention that Wales can say the same thing.
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Post by Old Man on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 9:41 am

Well this semi final will tell us whether the trend between Wales and South Africa continues.

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Post by Taylorman on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 10:04 am

NZ certainly see the Boks as the long time number one rivals. SA were ahead of NZ head to head up to about 94 and since then the ABs have hauled them back in and passed them. I see a SA NZ final though I know that may be completely wrong. Gotta perform, or go home...simple.

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Post by miaow on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 10:12 am

Except you don't go home, there's a 3rd place playoff game as well, so really you spend as long as the winners do out in Japan...

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Post by miaow on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 11:42 am

Anyone expecting any shock selections, for either side?

Surely Shingler to the bench ahead of James Davies? Will SA look at getting rid of Frans Steyn? Any need to rotate and go with someone a bit more lively on the bench?

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Post by Old Man on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 11:50 am

Frans Steyn?

Surely you mean Willie le Roux replaced by Frans Steyn?

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Post by miaow on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 11:51 am

Both look uninspired tbh

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Post by Galted on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 11:54 am

At least with Steyn you have the potential for a 65m penalty or drop goal. Le Roux reminds me a lot of Andre Joubert in that he looks good when the opposing defence offers him a clear run through but in all other aspects of play he looks like he's playing rugby for the first time.
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Post by Old Man on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 11:56 am

Galted wrote:At least with Steyn you have the potential for a 65m penalty or drop goal.  Le Roux reminds me a lot of Andre Joubert in that he looks good when the opposing defence offers him a clear run through but in all other aspects of play he looks like he's playing rugby for the first time.

Yes, especially his aerial skills have gone backwards.

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Post by Old Man on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 11:57 am

miaow wrote:Both look uninspired tbh

They don’t have to be inspiring, they have to perform the basics right first, then you can worry about butterflies and rainbows.

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Post by miaow on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 11:57 am

I feel signifcatly less threat from a portly Steyn than Le Roux, but there we go.

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Post by maestegmafia on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 12:10 pm

I think Tomos Williams has been a game changing substitute in the last two games. Does he deserve a start?

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Post by Afro on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 12:13 pm

I would still stick with Gareth Davies and Williams on the bench. Nice problem to have though.

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Post by maestegmafia on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 12:17 pm

Afro wrote:I would still stick with Gareth Davies and Williams on the bench. Nice problem to have though.


Aye not like Gareth hasn’t shown what he can do, has scored some superb tries this year

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Post by miaow on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 12:18 pm

Yeah, likewise. He's been a game changer - why change that?

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Post by No9 on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 12:54 pm

Kolbe could be out for the Boks and JD could be out for Wales.

Which is the biggest impact, if either.

My opinion is Kolbe missing for the Boks is probably a bigger concern to the Boks than JD missing for Wales. I say this as Kolbe speed out wide, could cause us a problem if the Boks pull our defenders in. Whereas, JD will have an impact, but I think Watkins is more than capable to take his place.

Thoughts...

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Post by maestegmafia on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 1:04 pm

No9 wrote:Kolbe could be out for the Boks and JD could be out for Wales.

Which is the biggest impact, if either.

My opinion is Kolbe missing for the Boks is probably a bigger concern to the Boks than JD missing for Wales. I say this as Kolbe speed out wide, could cause us a problem if the Boks pull our defenders in. Whereas, JD will have an impact, but I think Watkins is more than capable to take his place.

Thoughts...

Reports are JD2 is not out in jenks press briefing this morning... apparently last week was JD2s call after the captains run..

We have plenty of options, I thought Owen had a good game. Lane has arrived too. North could come in from the wing, Halfpenny to full back Liam to wing... lots of options. I expect to see

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Post by maestegmafia on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 1:26 pm

We should be seeing the wales team announced on Friday afternoon in japan

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Post by miaow on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 1:27 pm

Wouldn't be surprised to see JD2 miss out again, but much more confident than last week. Think they'll likely play him if half fit tbh.

If Kolbe is out they have an absolute flyer and jinker to come in and replace him - forget his name, dreads, beat 4 men to score v Argentina - so not really sure. Think the way Wales attack you might want Adams or Liam or North up against Kolbe with a crossfield kick.

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Post by Afro on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 1:40 pm

miaow wrote:Think they'll likely play him if half fit tbh.


Depends on their ambition, but I think they need to think bigger picture than that.

Is the objective get to the final and we'll be happy, or win the WC and we'll be happy. If its the former, then yeah play him and take the risk. If its the latter, then JD2 would be more valuable against NZ/England, than the Springboks, so you might not want to risk him in the semi-final, in order to give him more chance to be right in the final


Last edited by Afro on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 3:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by maestegmafia on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 1:56 pm

Afro wrote:
miaow wrote:Think they'll likely play him if half fit tbh.


Depends on their ambition, but I think they need to think bugger picture than that.

Is the objective get to the final and we'll be happy, or win the WC and we'll be happy. If its the former, then yeah play him and take the risk. If its the latter, then JD2 would be more valuable against NZ/England, than the Springboks, so you might not want to risk him in the semi-final, in order to give him more chance to be right in the final

The objective is to win the RWC and therefor that makes a good case for Watkins selection with Halfpenny on the bench.

There is talk about the extra time protocol being mentioned should the game be drawn after 80, or worse after 110. Apparently Nugget is being flown in to chat to the forwards about a penalty shoot out.

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