SF2 - Match Thread - WALES v SOUTH AFRICA - 27/10/19 - K/O 09:00 GMT

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Post by miaow on Thu 17 Oct 2019, 9:56 pm

First topic message reminder :

Again, making these early for the sake of ease and consistency.

WALES

Team:Halfpenny; North, J Davies, Parkes, Adams; Biggar, G Davies; Wyn Jones, Owens, Francis, Ball, Alun Wyn Jones (capt), Wainwright, Moriarty, Tipuric.

Replacements: Dee, R Carre, D Lewis, Beard, Shingler, T Williams, Patchell, Watkin.

SOUTH AFRICA

South Africa: Le Roux; Nkosi, Am, De Allende, Mapimpi; Pollard, De Klerk; Mtawarira, Mbonambi, Malherbe, Etzebeth, De Jager, Kolisi (capt), Du Toit, Vermeulen

Replacements: Marx, Kitschoff, Koch, Snyman, Mostert, Louw, H Jantjies, Steyn



Venue: Yokohama
Referee:
AR1:
AR2:
TMO:


Last edited by miaow on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 1:51 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 1:57 pm

[/quote]

Depends on their ambition, but I think they need to think bugger ....


I agree -

Where has our defence gone?
Where can we get some attack moves going ?
Is our luck gonna hold out any longer?
What happened to our trumpeted strength in depth?

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Post by maestegmafia on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 2:02 pm

Depends on their ambition, but I think they need to think bugger ....


I agree -

Where has our defence gone?
Where can we get some attack moves going ?
Is our luck gonna hold out any longer?
What happened to our trumpeted strength in depth?[/quote]

Mate cut the trolling. No one else is doing it, no need for you to start.


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Post by Old Man on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 2:16 pm

miaow wrote:Wouldn't be surprised to see JD2 miss out again, but much more confident than last week. Think they'll likely play him if half fit tbh.

If Kolbe is out they have an absolute flyer and jinker to come in and replace him - forget his name, dreads, beat 4 men to score v Argentina - so not really sure. Think the way Wales attack you might want Adams or Liam or North up against Kolbe with a crossfield kick.

S’busiso Nkosi

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Post by maestegmafia on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 2:30 pm

Old Man wrote:
miaow wrote:Wouldn't be surprised to see JD2 miss out again, but much more confident than last week. Think they'll likely play him if half fit tbh.

If Kolbe is out they have an absolute flyer and jinker to come in and replace him - forget his name, dreads, beat 4 men to score v Argentina - so not really sure. Think the way Wales attack you might want Adams or Liam or North up against Kolbe with a crossfield kick.

S’busiso Nkosi

That’s him great player.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 3:12 pm


maestegmafia

Mate cut the trolling. No one else is doing it, no need for you to start.



You didn't read Pies comments this morning then?

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Post by maestegmafia on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 3:38 pm

Gooseberry wrote:

maestegmafia

Mate cut the trolling. No one else is doing it, no need for you to start.



You didn't read Pies comments this morning then?

Didn’t see anything? Not sure which you are talking about, if you have an issue with something then report it.


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Post by maestegmafia on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 3:38 pm

Warren Gatland's son Bryn has trained with Wales in Tokyo on Wednesday in the first training session since his operation.

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Post by The Oracle on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 3:57 pm

maestegmafia wrote:Warren Gatland's son Bryn has trained with Wales in Tokyo on Wednesday in the first training session since his operation.


Get him in the side!  His name is Bryn, his dad is pretty much Welsh now anyway.... how much more Welsh can you be?!  Gotta be OK by WR rules.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 4:07 pm

Old Man, not really news for here but Marvin Orie has signed for Ospreys, to help alleviate their lock crisis I guess. Is he any good?

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 4:09 pm

maestegmafia wrote:Warren Gatland's son Bryn has trained with Wales in Tokyo on Wednesday in the first training session since his operation.

I thought using outsiders like that was against the tournament rules.

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 4:12 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Warren Gatland's son Bryn has trained with Wales in Tokyo on Wednesday in the first training session since his operation.

I thought using outsiders like that was against the tournament rules.

Ah, just checked. So long he is not eligible to play for Wales, and so long as they did not play a game and it was just training drills it is OK.

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Post by The Oracle on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 4:14 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Warren Gatland's son Bryn has trained with Wales in Tokyo on Wednesday in the first training session since his operation.

I thought using outsiders like that was against the tournament rules.

Kick us out.
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Post by Old Man on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 4:20 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Old Man, not really news for here but Marvin Orie has signed for Ospreys, to help alleviate their lock crisis I guess. Is he any good?

Yes he isn’t bad at all. Good line out jumper, has good hands, you might compare him to Franco Mostert.

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 4:22 pm

The Oracle wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Warren Gatland's son Bryn has trained with Wales in Tokyo on Wednesday in the first training session since his operation.

I thought using outsiders like that was against the tournament rules.

Kick us out.

I think Pollard is hoping to do that.

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Post by The Oracle on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 4:29 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Warren Gatland's son Bryn has trained with Wales in Tokyo on Wednesday in the first training session since his operation.

I thought using outsiders like that was against the tournament rules.

Kick us out.

I think Pollard is hoping to do that.

furious
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Post by maestegmafia on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 4:37 pm

The Oracle wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Warren Gatland's son Bryn has trained with Wales in Tokyo on Wednesday in the first training session since his operation.

I thought using outsiders like that was against the tournament rules.

Kick us out.

I think Pollard is hoping to do that.

furious

Apparently it’s all fine as he isn’t elidgable for wales and Steve Hanson has given his consent... all he’s doing is kicking balls at people... not sure whether that’s for catching practice or some type of WRU dodgeball

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Post by Taylorman on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 4:51 pm

Who cares? Good that his boys spending time with his old man doing what they both love. Bryan’s not there in any capacity is he?

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Post by maestegmafia on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 5:05 pm

Taylorman wrote:Who cares? Good that his boys spending time with his old man doing what they both love. Bryan’s not there in any capacity is he?

Nope.

To be honest it’s just great to se him on the road to recovery poor bloke

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Post by miaow on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 5:05 pm

Imagine he didn't really trust Hallam Amos to fill in as Pollard in training. Get a proper 10 in to prepare for what SA throw at them. Good stuff, hopefully it helps, all little details at this stage.

Can't help but feel Navidi is a massive loss. Just trying to think where we're going to get headway in carrying after, presumably, defending for long periods, and apart from Jake Ball - who is a blunt instrument and will more than meet his match with the back 5 of the Boks' pack - we don't really have anyone capable of getting through tackles. Big game for Moriarty I suppose, but he seems like a perfect bench option tbh, 30 minutes of manic aggression from the bench, leading the line in defence, and stopping people behind the gainline. I'm less convinced both he and Wainwright can go 80 minutes and not drop off massively, and one of them will almost certainly have to.

In terms of carrying, it could be a coming of age game for Wainwright. He had a tough time in the autumn and was targeted for some physical attention from the Boks, particularly first half, and he dealt ok with it but mostly just took it, instead of handing it back or matching it. When you consider the two flankers he's up against, as well as Vermuelen's bulk and the 3 second rows they have, that's some big, prime firepower Wales are going to have to deal with. That's presumably where this game is won or lost.

The last 2 times Wales have won it's been following fast starts - in Washington and Cardiff. Both fast starts resulted in leads, and as both teams settled/the game slowed, SA's greater bulk worked them back in to it. That knack of winning saw Wales through, but there was fortune both times - a charge down on the tryline in DC, and I think some late Biggar penalties in Cardiff?

So, presumably, Wales need a fast start again - but I'd hate to think we don't have anything else to offer if we fail to build a 2 score lead after half an hour.

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Post by maestegmafia on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 5:11 pm

miaow wrote:Imagine he didn't really trust Hallam Amos to fill in as Pollard in training. Get a proper 10 in to prepare for what SA throw at them. Good stuff, hopefully it helps, all little details at this stage.

Can't help but feel Navidi is a massive loss. Just trying to think where we're going to get headway in carrying after, presumably, defending for long periods, and apart from Jake Ball - who is a blunt instrument and will more than meet his match with the back 5 of the Boks' pack - we don't really have anyone capable of getting through tackles. Big game for Moriarty I suppose, but he seems like a perfect bench option tbh, 30 minutes of manic aggression from the bench, leading the line in defence, and stopping people behind the gainline. I'm less convinced both he and Wainwright can go 80 minutes and not drop off massively, and one of them will almost certainly have to.

In terms of carrying, it could be a coming of age game for Wainwright. He had a tough time in the autumn and was targeted for some physical attention from the Boks, particularly first half, and he dealt ok with it but mostly just took it, instead of handing it back or matching it. When you consider the two flankers he's up against, as well as Vermuelen's bulk and the 3 second rows they have, that's some big, prime firepower Wales are going to have to deal with. That's presumably where this game is won or lost.

The last 2 times Wales have won it's been following fast starts - in Washington and Cardiff. Both fast starts resulted in leads, and as both teams settled/the game slowed, SA's greater bulk worked them back in to it. That knack of winning saw Wales through, but there was fortune both times - a charge down on the tryline in DC, and I think some late Biggar penalties in Cardiff?

So, presumably, Wales need a fast start again - but I'd hate to think we don't have anything else to offer if we fail to build a 2 score lead after half an hour.

Fast starts seem to be the call of the day. Like vs Ireland in the six nations, or vs Australia in the RWC when it comes to the crunch we can forth and score early.

Tactical horses for courses, but I agree SA do seem to struggle with early pressure added

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Post by miaow on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 5:33 pm


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Post by Taylorman on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 5:35 pm

Yeah well, Wales are out by popular consensus it seems.

They’re not one of the contenders but someone has to fill the forth spot. Gotta be the easiest route to a final in history. Japan, then Wales. Geez. Boks are lucky they had a good pool huh?

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Post by Old Man on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 5:39 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
miaow wrote:Imagine he didn't really trust Hallam Amos to fill in as Pollard in training. Get a proper 10 in to prepare for what SA throw at them. Good stuff, hopefully it helps, all little details at this stage.

Can't help but feel Navidi is a massive loss. Just trying to think where we're going to get headway in carrying after, presumably, defending for long periods, and apart from Jake Ball - who is a blunt instrument and will more than meet his match with the back 5 of the Boks' pack - we don't really have anyone capable of getting through tackles. Big game for Moriarty I suppose, but he seems like a perfect bench option tbh, 30 minutes of manic aggression from the bench, leading the line in defence, and stopping people behind the gainline. I'm less convinced both he and Wainwright can go 80 minutes and not drop off massively, and one of them will almost certainly have to.

In terms of carrying, it could be a coming of age game for Wainwright. He had a tough time in the autumn and was targeted for some physical attention from the Boks, particularly first half, and he dealt ok with it but mostly just took it, instead of handing it back or matching it. When you consider the two flankers he's up against, as well as Vermuelen's bulk and the 3 second rows they have, that's some big, prime firepower Wales are going to have to deal with. That's presumably where this game is won or lost.

The last 2 times Wales have won it's been following fast starts - in Washington and Cardiff. Both fast starts resulted in leads, and as both teams settled/the game slowed, SA's greater bulk worked them back in to it. That knack of winning saw Wales through, but there was fortune both times - a charge down on the tryline in DC, and I think some late Biggar penalties in Cardiff?

So, presumably, Wales need a fast start again - but I'd hate to think we don't have anything else to offer if we fail to build a 2 score lead after half an hour.

Fast starts seem to be the call of the day. Like vs Ireland in the six nations, or vs Australia in the RWC when it comes to the crunch we can forth and score early.

Tactical horses for courses, but I agree SA do seem to struggle with early pressure added

Not entirely true, SA was 17-3 behind NZ and won the second half 10-6

Also in Wellington SA was behind 16-9 and clawed it back for a draw

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Post by miaow on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 5:45 pm

I think he means SA are slow starters perhaps, Biltong?

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Post by maestegmafia on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 5:46 pm

Old Man wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
miaow wrote:Imagine he didn't really trust Hallam Amos to fill in as Pollard in training. Get a proper 10 in to prepare for what SA throw at them. Good stuff, hopefully it helps, all little details at this stage.

Can't help but feel Navidi is a massive loss. Just trying to think where we're going to get headway in carrying after, presumably, defending for long periods, and apart from Jake Ball - who is a blunt instrument and will more than meet his match with the back 5 of the Boks' pack - we don't really have anyone capable of getting through tackles. Big game for Moriarty I suppose, but he seems like a perfect bench option tbh, 30 minutes of manic aggression from the bench, leading the line in defence, and stopping people behind the gainline. I'm less convinced both he and Wainwright can go 80 minutes and not drop off massively, and one of them will almost certainly have to.

In terms of carrying, it could be a coming of age game for Wainwright. He had a tough time in the autumn and was targeted for some physical attention from the Boks, particularly first half, and he dealt ok with it but mostly just took it, instead of handing it back or matching it. When you consider the two flankers he's up against, as well as Vermuelen's bulk and the 3 second rows they have, that's some big, prime firepower Wales are going to have to deal with. That's presumably where this game is won or lost.

The last 2 times Wales have won it's been following fast starts - in Washington and Cardiff. Both fast starts resulted in leads, and as both teams settled/the game slowed, SA's greater bulk worked them back in to it. That knack of winning saw Wales through, but there was fortune both times - a charge down on the tryline in DC, and I think some late Biggar penalties in Cardiff?

So, presumably, Wales need a fast start again - but I'd hate to think we don't have anything else to offer if we fail to build a 2 score lead after half an hour.

Fast starts seem to be the call of the day. Like vs Ireland in the six nations, or vs Australia in the RWC when it comes to the crunch we can forth and score early.

Tactical horses for courses, but I agree SA do seem to struggle with early pressure added

Not entirely true, SA was 17-3 behind NZ and won the second half 10-6

Also in Wellington SA was behind 16-9 and clawed it back for a draw

They didn’t win either of those matches so I think the point is valid...!

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Post by Pie on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 6:04 pm

Taylorman wrote:NZ certainly see the Boks as the long time number one rivals. SA were ahead of NZ head to head up to about 94 and since then the ABs have hauled them back in and passed them. I see a SA NZ final though I know that may be completely wrong. Gotta perform, or go home...simple.

no sh1t

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Post by Old Man on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 6:09 pm

miaow wrote:I think he means SA are slow starters perhaps, Biltong?

Again with the biltong thing, did this guy do a number on you, or what?

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Post by Pie on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 6:09 pm

IMO the collision will define this game and in that regard loss of Navidi, who Hansen rates very highly, is substantial. I expect to see Wales play a higher tempo game of up the jumper, play for position and kick the inevitable goals an ill disciplined side will cough up thanks to my old pal Jerome from Bridgend. Simples.


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Post by Old Man on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 6:10 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
Old Man wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
miaow wrote:Imagine he didn't really trust Hallam Amos to fill in as Pollard in training. Get a proper 10 in to prepare for what SA throw at them. Good stuff, hopefully it helps, all little details at this stage.

Can't help but feel Navidi is a massive loss. Just trying to think where we're going to get headway in carrying after, presumably, defending for long periods, and apart from Jake Ball - who is a blunt instrument and will more than meet his match with the back 5 of the Boks' pack - we don't really have anyone capable of getting through tackles. Big game for Moriarty I suppose, but he seems like a perfect bench option tbh, 30 minutes of manic aggression from the bench, leading the line in defence, and stopping people behind the gainline. I'm less convinced both he and Wainwright can go 80 minutes and not drop off massively, and one of them will almost certainly have to.

In terms of carrying, it could be a coming of age game for Wainwright. He had a tough time in the autumn and was targeted for some physical attention from the Boks, particularly first half, and he dealt ok with it but mostly just took it, instead of handing it back or matching it. When you consider the two flankers he's up against, as well as Vermuelen's bulk and the 3 second rows they have, that's some big, prime firepower Wales are going to have to deal with. That's presumably where this game is won or lost.

The last 2 times Wales have won it's been following fast starts - in Washington and Cardiff. Both fast starts resulted in leads, and as both teams settled/the game slowed, SA's greater bulk worked them back in to it. That knack of winning saw Wales through, but there was fortune both times - a charge down on the tryline in DC, and I think some late Biggar penalties in Cardiff?

So, presumably, Wales need a fast start again - but I'd hate to think we don't have anything else to offer if we fail to build a 2 score lead after half an hour.

Fast starts seem to be the call of the day. Like vs Ireland in the six nations, or vs Australia in the RWC when it comes to the crunch we can forth and score early.

Tactical horses for courses, but I agree SA do seem to struggle with early pressure added

Not entirely true, SA was 17-3 behind NZ and won the second half 10-6

Also in Wellington SA was behind 16-9 and clawed it back for a draw

They didn’t win either of those matches so I think the point is valid...!

Yeah, nobody really beats the All Blacks , do they?

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Post by Pie on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 6:12 pm

Its a good point, even when you do beat them they want to share the spoils. Such is the people and the players, not very sporting. But lets face it they have one sport and are largely dismal at everything else except sheeping.

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Post by maestegmafia on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 6:18 pm

Old Man wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
Old Man wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
miaow wrote:Imagine he didn't really trust Hallam Amos to fill in as Pollard in training. Get a proper 10 in to prepare for what SA throw at them. Good stuff, hopefully it helps, all little details at this stage.

Can't help but feel Navidi is a massive loss. Just trying to think where we're going to get headway in carrying after, presumably, defending for long periods, and apart from Jake Ball - who is a blunt instrument and will more than meet his match with the back 5 of the Boks' pack - we don't really have anyone capable of getting through tackles. Big game for Moriarty I suppose, but he seems like a perfect bench option tbh, 30 minutes of manic aggression from the bench, leading the line in defence, and stopping people behind the gainline. I'm less convinced both he and Wainwright can go 80 minutes and not drop off massively, and one of them will almost certainly have to.

In terms of carrying, it could be a coming of age game for Wainwright. He had a tough time in the autumn and was targeted for some physical attention from the Boks, particularly first half, and he dealt ok with it but mostly just took it, instead of handing it back or matching it. When you consider the two flankers he's up against, as well as Vermuelen's bulk and the 3 second rows they have, that's some big, prime firepower Wales are going to have to deal with. That's presumably where this game is won or lost.

The last 2 times Wales have won it's been following fast starts - in Washington and Cardiff. Both fast starts resulted in leads, and as both teams settled/the game slowed, SA's greater bulk worked them back in to it. That knack of winning saw Wales through, but there was fortune both times - a charge down on the tryline in DC, and I think some late Biggar penalties in Cardiff?

So, presumably, Wales need a fast start again - but I'd hate to think we don't have anything else to offer if we fail to build a 2 score lead after half an hour.

Fast starts seem to be the call of the day. Like vs Ireland in the six nations, or vs Australia in the RWC when it comes to the crunch we can forth and score early.

Tactical horses for courses, but I agree SA do seem to struggle with early pressure added

Not entirely true, SA was 17-3 behind NZ and won the second half 10-6

Also in Wellington SA was behind 16-9 and clawed it back for a draw

They didn’t win either of those matches so I think the point is valid...!

Yeah, nobody really beats the All Blacks , do they?

Point being teams that get a good start generally don’t lose to the Boks.

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Post by maestegmafia on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 6:20 pm

Pie wrote:Its a good point, even when you do beat them they want to share the spoils. Such is the people and the players, not very sporting. But lets face it they have one sport and are largely dismal at everything else except sheeping.

Actualy they rank as the top sporting nation per population size. Wales aren’t far behind.

As well as Rugby, Cricket they are also currently the America’s Cup holders as well

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Post by miaow on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 6:22 pm

And weaknesses to Am at 13 Old Man? Whatdo you make of him? Was Kriel generally seen as the likely starter before injury?

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Post by Pie on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 6:23 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
Pie wrote:Its a good point, even when you do beat them they want to share the spoils. Such is the people and the players, not very sporting. But lets face it they have one sport and are largely dismal at everything else except sheeping.

Actualy they rank as the top sporting nation per population size. Wales aren’t far behind.

As well as Rugby, Cricket they are also currently the America’s Cup holders as well

so second rate at cricket, and they can sail ....yes what an amazing sporting nation they are lol :yahoo

Apologies, I feel I should acknowledge a complete domination of Competitive Sheep herding. NZ have competed and are world champions Yahoo in this highly competitive competition at least once a week and won or come 2nd when only 2 teams competing.


Last edited by Pie on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 6:28 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Old Man on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 6:24 pm

Last season, beginning of Rassie’s tenure.

Argentina up 14-5 in the 29th minute, they lose 34-21
New Zealand up 12-0 in the 19th minute, they lose 36-34
France up 23-9 in the 42nd minute , they lose 29-26

I think it is a misnomer, SA are like any other team, sometimes they struggle when they are behind, other times not.

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Post by Pie on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 6:25 pm

What people don't get about Wales which I think give us huge advantage is our game management. We know how to stay in touch by 1-2 scores. And we know that as game open up we take the chances we get in the last third. This used to be just plain old catch up rugby, now its more of a roper dope strategy. Teams blow themselves out against us and yet we stay in touch and then we strike when the game is more open. Its extremely effective and with Biggar at 10 we've become very very good at it.

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Post by Old Man on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 6:27 pm

miaow wrote:And weaknesses to Am at 13 Old Man? Whatdo you make of him? Was Kriel generally seen as the likely starter before injury?

Am’s biggest “weakness” is his inexperience at International level, he is still learning his craft. He has come a long way with his defensive organisation and defensive reads. He isn’t setting the world alight yet, but he could become a class act.

Am was always the starter, Jesse has more weaknesses than Am, he doesn’t offload much at all, his defensive organisation and tackling is inferior to AM. I think Kriel is a better Wing than centre.

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Post by Taylorman on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 6:27 pm

Old Man wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
Old Man wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
miaow wrote:Imagine he didn't really trust Hallam Amos to fill in as Pollard in training. Get a proper 10 in to prepare for what SA throw at them. Good stuff, hopefully it helps, all little details at this stage.

Can't help but feel Navidi is a massive loss. Just trying to think where we're going to get headway in carrying after, presumably, defending for long periods, and apart from Jake Ball - who is a blunt instrument and will more than meet his match with the back 5 of the Boks' pack - we don't really have anyone capable of getting through tackles. Big game for Moriarty I suppose, but he seems like a perfect bench option tbh, 30 minutes of manic aggression from the bench, leading the line in defence, and stopping people behind the gainline. I'm less convinced both he and Wainwright can go 80 minutes and not drop off massively, and one of them will almost certainly have to.

In terms of carrying, it could be a coming of age game for Wainwright. He had a tough time in the autumn and was targeted for some physical attention from the Boks, particularly first half, and he dealt ok with it but mostly just took it, instead of handing it back or matching it. When you consider the two flankers he's up against, as well as Vermuelen's bulk and the 3 second rows they have, that's some big, prime firepower Wales are going to have to deal with. That's presumably where this game is won or lost.

The last 2 times Wales have won it's been following fast starts - in Washington and Cardiff. Both fast starts resulted in leads, and as both teams settled/the game slowed, SA's greater bulk worked them back in to it. That knack of winning saw Wales through, but there was fortune both times - a charge down on the tryline in DC, and I think some late Biggar penalties in Cardiff?

So, presumably, Wales need a fast start again - but I'd hate to think we don't have anything else to offer if we fail to build a 2 score lead after half an hour.

Fast starts seem to be the call of the day. Like vs Ireland in the six nations, or vs Australia in the RWC when it comes to the crunch we can forth and score early.

Tactical horses for courses, but I agree SA do seem to struggle with early pressure added

Not entirely true, SA was 17-3 behind NZ and won the second half 10-6

Also in Wellington SA was behind 16-9 and clawed it back for a draw

They didn’t win either of those matches so I think the point is valid...!

Yeah, nobody really beats the All Blacks , do they?

More often these days. Key is doing it when it counts.

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Post by Taylorman on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 6:42 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
Pie wrote:Its a good point, even when you do beat them they want to share the spoils. Such is the people and the players, not very sporting. But lets face it they have one sport and are largely dismal at everything else except sheeping.

Actualy they rank as the top sporting nation per population size. Wales aren’t far behind.

As well as Rugby, Cricket they are also currently the America’s Cup holders as well

Yeah we dabble in most sports. Ko was women’s number one golfer for a while. For some reason we have Olympic gold quality shot putters. Our net ballers are tops at the moment I think. Strong in rowing and kayaking.We love our sport and outdoors but with a small population we just hack away at the big countries like everyone else.

We have a budding winger in Wellington who’s still deciding between sprinting and rugby, he’s down to 10.19 for 100m which at 18 is pretty quick.95kg and 1.95m is no shorty either.

Edward Osei-Nketia, son of Gus who sprinted for NZ 20 odd years ago after moving here.

He’s just been selected for a promising sevens camp so has a promising future. Not the normal path for our players but loves rugby so is balancing the two.

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Post by miaow on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 6:42 pm

Old Man wrote:Last season, beginning of Rassie’s tenure.

Argentina up 14-5 in the 29th minute, they lose 34-21
New Zealand up 12-0 in the 19th minute, they lose 36-34
France up 23-9 in the 42nd minute , they lose 29-26

I think it is a misnomer, SA are like any other team, sometimes they struggle when they are behind, other times not.

I'd say the prevailing trend is that SA are strong finishers and use their physical power to mitigate some other failings that are perhaps more obvious at the start of games. That would be the consistent thread to SA - they don't have to overplay to make headway, and their size and power means they usually have the better of the second half of games.

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Post by miaow on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 6:44 pm

Old Man wrote:
miaow wrote:And weaknesses to Am at 13 Old Man? Whatdo you make of him? Was Kriel generally seen as the likely starter before injury?

Am’s biggest “weakness” is his inexperience at International level, he is still learning his craft. He has come a long way with his defensive organisation and defensive reads. He isn’t setting the world alight yet, but he could become a class act.

Am was always the starter, Jesse has more weaknesses than Am, he doesn’t offload much at all, his defensive organisation and tackling is inferior to AM. I think Kriel is a better Wing than centre.

Interesting, thanks. Those washboard abs of Kriel's never got put to good use - bet he was disappointed.

Haven't seen enough of Am to really know, but as he's an unknown, it tends to go one way when SA's play Wales - either they have man of the match performances, or they bottle it and contribute to the loss. Ofc not guaranteed to happen, but considering 13 is so key these days, could be an interesting match up, and have to hope JD2 is fit for Wales.

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Post by Poorfour on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 6:46 pm

Pie wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
Pie wrote:Its a good point, even when you do beat them they want to share the spoils. Such is the people and the players, not very sporting. But lets face it they have one sport and are largely dismal at everything else except sheeping.

Actualy they rank as the top sporting nation per population size. Wales aren’t far behind.

As well as Rugby, Cricket they are also currently the America’s Cup holders as well

so second rate at cricket, and they can sail ....yes what an amazing sporting nation they are lol :yahoo

Apologies, I feel I should acknowledge a complete domination of Competitive Sheep herding. NZ have competed and are world champions  :yahoo: in this highly competitive competition at least once a week and won or come 2nd when only 2 teams competing.

I think that's gone beyond reasonable banter, Pie.

For the size of the country, New Zealand hits above its weight in a lot of sports. They lost the Cricket World Cup by the narrowest possible margin. Winning the Americas Cup - for a small country - is a huge achievement, especially given the budgets involved. They're frequently #2 in the world in Rugby League, they took Olympic medals in rowing in 12 of the last 13 games, they took 4 medals in Squash at the last Commonwealth Games, and regularly pick up medals in cycling in track and Olympic events.
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Post by BamBam on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 6:49 pm

A Welshman making jokes about sheep?!

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Post by Pie on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 6:51 pm

BamBam wrote:A Welshman making jokes about sheep?!


Correct. Qualified to do so.

And anyone rating squash as a sport indicative of a nation's sporting prowess needs to get a grip

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Post by miaow on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 6:53 pm

Can we save the sheep Olympics chat for if/when we play each other in the final/3rd place game/next summer?

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Post by Galted on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 6:59 pm

Old Man wrote:Last season, beginning of Rassie’s tenure.

Argentina up 14-5 in the 29th minute, they lose 34-21
New Zealand up 12-0 in the 19th minute, they lose 36-34
France up 23-9 in the 42nd minute , they lose 29-26

I think it is a misnomer, SA are like any other team, sometimes they struggle when they are behind, other times not.

Don't forget England being 24-3 up after a quarter of an hour and 12-0 up a week later and losing both on last year's SA tour.
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Post by Old Man on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 7:11 pm

Galted wrote:
Old Man wrote:Last season, beginning of Rassie’s tenure.

Argentina up 14-5 in the 29th minute, they lose 34-21
New Zealand up 12-0 in the 19th minute, they lose 36-34
France up 23-9 in the 42nd minute , they lose 29-26

I think it is a misnomer, SA are like any other team, sometimes they struggle when they are behind, other times not.

Don't forget England being 24-3 up after a quarter of an hour and 12-0 up a week later and losing both on last year's SA tour.

Thanks, couldn’t get those stats.

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Post by Taylorman on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 7:59 pm

Yes that’s interesting. It used to be SA were the ones that couldn’t come back but when you have players like Kolbe anything’s possible I guess.

The Boks are slowly becoming a more all round side and if they can work out how to create space for Kolbe...because like Habana, he’s mostly creating it on his own, from nothing, then they’ll be better for it.

South Africa creating space...geez, that’s a bit of a new one... thumbsup

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Post by maestegmafia on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 8:56 pm

To be honest I can’t think of a single game where you wouldn’t want to score first...!

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Post by Old Man on Wed 23 Oct 2019, 9:10 pm

Of course, it makes it so much easier to build scoreboard pressure than having to play catch up.

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