SF2 - Match Thread - WALES v SOUTH AFRICA - 27/10/19 - K/O 09:00 GMT

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Post by miaow on Thu 17 Oct 2019, 9:56 pm

First topic message reminder :

Again, making these early for the sake of ease and consistency.

WALES

Team:Halfpenny; North, J Davies, Parkes, Adams; Biggar, G Davies; Wyn Jones, Owens, Francis, Ball, Alun Wyn Jones (capt), Wainwright, Moriarty, Tipuric.

Replacements: Dee, R Carre, D Lewis, Beard, Shingler, T Williams, Patchell, Watkin.

SOUTH AFRICA

South Africa: Le Roux; Nkosi, Am, De Allende, Mapimpi; Pollard, De Klerk; Mtawarira, Mbonambi, Malherbe, Etzebeth, De Jager, Kolisi (capt), Du Toit, Vermeulen

Replacements: Marx, Kitschoff, Koch, Snyman, Mostert, Louw, H Jantjies, Steyn



Venue: Yokohama
Referee:
AR1:
AR2:
TMO:


Last edited by miaow on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 1:51 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Post by miaow on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 3:26 pm

Liam Williams hasn't shone. I'd expect Halfpenny to slot in and have a great game if he does play. There's the potential for a starting place in the RWC final at stake.

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 4:03 pm

I bet the lads were frilled to have Prince Charles turn up.

If Liam doesn't make it then that is a huge loss, he is a game changer.
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Post by miaow on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 4:41 pm

Liam out of the World Cup.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50171499

Exactly the kind of injuries that Wales cannot afford stating to mount up - a sign of the extra attrition of a tough group, making hard work of the QF, and compared to other teams' relative armchair rides through the tournament, it all but guarantees Wales cannot win the final. We won't limp to victory over NZ or Eng, even if we manage to get past SA.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 4:43 pm

No one said it would be easy! Crying or Very sad

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Post by miaow on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 4:45 pm

In terms of a replacement...there isn't really an outstanding candidate at this stage. Patchell is (very poor) 15 cover, Amos is a similar level. That leaves someone like Jonah Holmes as next in line - or even Jonny McNicholl? Is he qualified yet? I believe he must be? Or did he arrive in November after the NZ season finishes...?

I'd calll up Scott Williams, particularly with question marks around 12/13 with Parkes and JD2. Keep Lane and North as wingers and stop-gap 13s, and focus on Halfpenny as the 15 and hope he doesn't get injured.

What a blow. Gutting.

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 4:45 pm

So much pressure on 1/2p now, if selected that is. Patchell might be the preferred choice.
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Post by miaow on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 4:46 pm

In no way is Patchell the preferred choice at 15.

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Post by BamBam on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 4:48 pm

With Kolbe also out, that's both teams best strike runner missing

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Post by miaow on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 4:51 pm

BamBam wrote:With Kolbe also out, that's both teams best strike runner missing

That would be North for Wales. Probably Mapimpi for SA as well.

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 4:52 pm

Kolbe would have seen little ball to be honest, the Saffers are going to overpower Wales in the forwards, that is where the game will be won.
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Post by BamBam on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 4:55 pm

miaow wrote:
BamBam wrote:With Kolbe also out, that's both teams best strike runner missing

That would be North for Wales. Probably Mapimpi for SA as well.

Just because you think so doesn't make it a fact. So it would be Kolbe and Williams

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Post by miaow on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 4:56 pm

You don't know what a strike runner is, do you, Bam...

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 4:58 pm

I can only speak for myself, but it's been so low key at work this week considering we're playing a World Cup semi final on the weekend. I know it's purely because of the game against France, but if you'd said before the tournament we'd make the semis, you'd have expected there to be so much more excitement about it. I'm almost not nervous even, that's how low key it's been. That'll change as kick off approaches, of course.

I have a feeling this match will be much more low-scoring than the other semi final. I can see that one being a relative try fest.

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Post by BamBam on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 4:59 pm

miaow wrote:You don't know what a strike runner is, do you, Bam...

I know what a patronising prick is miaow

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Post by miaow on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 5:00 pm

BamBam wrote:
miaow wrote:You don't know what a strike runner is, do you, Bam...

I know what a patronising prick is miaow

You've been WUMming all day but that's a step too far.

Have a timeout and think about what you've done.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 5:02 pm

Miaow wums have worked then.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 5:02 pm

I have to say Miaow, your tone is really off at times. It's not like it hasn't been mentioned to you either.

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Post by miaow on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 5:04 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I can only speak for myself, but it's been so low key at work this week considering we're playing a World Cup semi final on the weekend. I know it's purely because of the game against France, but if you'd said before the tournament we'd make the semis, you'd have expected there to be so much more excitement about it. I'm almost not nervous even, that's how low key it's been. That'll change as kick off approaches, of course.

I have a feeling this match will be much more low-scoring than the other semi final. I can see that one being a relative try fest.

Agreed on all points. There's a sense of we *should* be making the SF, we should have beaten France, and that we always stood a good chance of beating Oz. We haven't really exceeded expectations so far, and, if anything, with the injury toll now mounting up - and the way we're playing relative to the other 2 - there's little chance we'll win it. It's not like 2011, where it felt like a tidal wave and where we really felt up for beating NZ. Now I think we'll potentially get smashed by them if we make the final. Just not playing good enough rugby across the park, but particularly 10-13 and now possibly 15 as well.

I agree it'll be low scoring. SA look decent but still 2-3 years away from peaking. Too much of a blunt force and relying on individual magic from forward dominance. I'm not sure they'll get the control they want or need to run in tries. NZ and England could be a basketball game.

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Post by miaow on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 5:05 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I have to say Miaow, your tone is really off at times. It's not like it hasn't been mentioned to you either.

It's not off at all. Bam's been trolling all day, makes a point about rugby which is incorrect, I very matter of factly say that no, the other players are the best strike runners, and he then gets personal. Sorry, but I've done nothing wrong here than let a WUM fall on his own sword.

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Post by BamBam on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 5:06 pm

Not personal at all, just stating matter of factly something I know. Didn't refer to anyone in particular


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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 5:07 pm

If the mods have found it necessary to mention your tone to you, then it's not something that other posters have imagined.

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Post by miaow on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 5:09 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:If the mods have found it necessary to mention your tone to you, then it's not something that other posters have imagined.

That's fair enough as I apparently called someone an idiot, which is too far, but not in this instance. I merely stated that, no, the two injured players weren't the best strike runners, and Bam doubled down and became offensive. It's all there in black and white either way.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 5:10 pm

It is.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 5:15 pm

miaow wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I can only speak for myself, but it's been so low key at work this week considering we're playing a World Cup semi final on the weekend. I know it's purely because of the game against France, but if you'd said before the tournament we'd make the semis, you'd have expected there to be so much more excitement about it. I'm almost not nervous even, that's how low key it's been. That'll change as kick off approaches, of course.

I have a feeling this match will be much more low-scoring than the other semi final. I can see that one being a relative try fest.

Agreed on all points. There's a sense of we *should* be making the SF, we should have beaten France, and that we always stood a good chance of beating Oz. We haven't really exceeded expectations so far, and, if anything, with the injury toll now mounting up - and the way we're playing relative to the other 2 - there's little chance we'll win it. It's not like 2011, where it felt like a tidal wave and where we really felt up for beating NZ. Now I think we'll potentially get smashed by them if we make the final. Just not playing good enough rugby across the park, but particularly 10-13 and now possibly 15 as well.

I agree it'll be low scoring. SA look decent but still 2-3 years away from peaking. Too much of a blunt force and relying on individual magic from forward dominance. I'm not sure they'll get the control they want or need to run in tries. NZ and England could be a basketball game.

Two very different matches in prospect, but some of the most absorbing matches I've seen were low-scoring affairs.

If Wales v South Africa is high-scoring, I don't see Wales joining in!

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Post by miaow on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 5:18 pm

Likewise.

It's been that way for years - if you score 20-25 points v Wales you stand a good chance of winning. France nearly managed it, England likewise 4 years ago, and SA got on the right side of that score in the QF.

Liam Williams a loss in that sense as well. Could create something out of nothing. Tomos Williams looking like the most likely to do that now.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 5:20 pm

George North rarely goes an entire tournament without putting in at least one try-scoring performance. He's running out of matches now in this one. He looked so hungry for the ball in the opening 10 minutes or so against the Wallabies, but there's been little since.

EDIT: Maybe he has scored a try, I can't remember. But you get the gist.

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Post by miaow on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 5:24 pm

Yes, this is where I'd expect him to shine - and, not to rub it in, but as a strike runner coming on to the ball at pace.

Also, this is Gatland's last hurrah with Wales. Shame with Liam being out - massive shame, actually - but I'd expect Wales to throw the playbook at SA. Nothing else left behind. There's no point keeping this in the locker. No point underplaying. Gatland will be rewriting it enough for NZ and the Lions while keeping the basics, but some of the moves Wales have been working on in training, or have done over the years - expect at least 2 or 3, surely, if we get the field position. Things like the 15 man maul, the backs move where Tipuric apparently kicks it out on the wing, some of the inside strike moves we saw against Georgia - expect to see the playbook unleashed, basically.

And hopefully North profits from that.

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Post by Taylorman on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 6:25 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Geez that’s a huge blow. Best winger in the world this year.

Can someone stop selling Wales lotto tickets please. censored

Worried about the underdogs now Taylor? Don’t worry, barley anyone thinks Wales stand a chance of making the final let alone beating the All Blacks, no matter how lucky we are.

Clean bill of health in the wales camp though a number of fans and pundits are worried for Jonathan Davies and think we should be saving him for the final.

Tough call but the word from the camp is the usual “aim to win the next game first”.


Yeah just kidding. Kolbes been pretty special this year. Not much too him but is as slippery as an eel, seems to slip out of tackle after tackle. Brilliant to watch, one of those ‘how did he do that!?’ players. You name it, he can step it. Amazing feet.

Coz he's small.   Now there's a thing you don't hear much in present day rugby.  Mostly you hear, 'players is getting bigger every year'.  Indeed I've heard it so much that I expect to see players running out at 8'2" at his point.

So time for the return of the Shane Williamses then!  When they least expect something, play it different.  Japan had some pocket rocket fliers too.

Yeah he’s definitely in the Shane Wlilliams mould, there are similarities there. The last stepper we had like that was Nehe Milner Skudder who thankfully for us peaked in 2015. Fun to watch!

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Post by majesticimperialman on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 7:01 pm

Just seen Liam Williams is out with an ankle injury. Half penny in his place.

Wales are sure going through some injury's.

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Post by maestegmafia on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 7:09 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:Just seen Liam Williams is out with an ankle injury. Half penny in his place.

Wales are sure going through some injury's.

We are currently missing:-

1x world class number 8
1x world class backrow
1x world class Scrumhalf
1x first choice flyhalf
1x excellent openside

We have a small player base, only four professional teams and the smallest population but we are still in a semi finals with a shot of winning the RWC.

Got to be proud of that.


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Post by miaow on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 7:16 pm

Add a second row in Cory Hill to that maesteg.

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Post by Taylorman on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 7:56 pm

Yeah not good, it’s swings and roundabouts for a Wales. On one hand there’s injuries, on the other they’re getting the run on the field.

It’s likely both will catch up, particularly as the next match, or two, will be the toughest Wales have had since 2011.

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Post by RiscaGame on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 8:20 pm

Horrible luck for Liam Williams. It was unlikely to happen, but it was good for him to still be in with a chance of adding another trophy, to what has been a very successful year for him. Hope the ankle isn’t too bad, as having to use crutches isn’t great for him, so it must be a significant sprain at the very least.

Be interesting to see the team tomorrow now. Or rather the bench, if Davies isn’t fit and also what he will do with Moriarty’s slot from last week.

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Post by miaow on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 8:31 pm

Taylorman wrote:Yeah not good, it’s swings and roundabouts for a Wales. On one hand there’s injuries, on the other they’re getting the run on the field.

It’s likely both will catch up, particularly as the next match, or two, will be the toughest Wales have had since 2011.

Weirdly wrong on both counts. Very little luck considering the substandard officiating they received against Australia, and again with Peyper who was useless and hurt Wales long before the try.

2015 was also tougher - England, Fiji, and Australia in the groups followed by SA. Our squad was absolutely decimated then, and out on its feet - hence not putting SA in an hour, and then flagging, and then faltering. Any more injuries an any hopes of beating England are severely diminished, but we're still doing better than 4 years ago all things considered. Don't think the stage of competition has too much bearing in that sense. Certainly don't think this will be the de facto toughest game Wales have played in 8 years, at all, really.

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Post by lostinwales on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 9:12 pm

miaow wrote:
BamBam wrote:With Kolbe also out, that's both teams best strike runner missing

That would be North for Wales. Probably Mapimpi for SA as well.

No. North is great when he gets some space to get his speed up, but he can be countered. Liam Williams is so much more dangerous.

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Post by Taylorman on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 9:14 pm

Like I said, both the injuries and ref calls will take its toll.

Things went 'your way'. Things didnt in 2011, It happens. Injuries happen, no ones fault, they happen. Swings and roundabouts.

And if you are wanting to be World champs, the semi is the toughest match Wales have faced. That's how it works. Win semi, you're in final. That would be Wales greatest achievement. That makes the semi the toughest.

Any other take on that is a losers take.

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Post by Taylorman on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 9:16 pm

RiscaGame wrote:Horrible luck for Liam Williams. It was unlikely to happen, but it was good for him to still be in with a chance of adding another trophy, to what has been a very successful year for him. Hope the ankle isn’t too bad, as having to use crutches isn’t great for him, so it must be a significant sprain at the very least.

Be interesting to see the team tomorrow now. Or rather the bench, if Davies isn’t fit and also what he will do with Moriarty’s slot from last week.

Yeah saw Williams debut against the All Blacks, knew that day he was going to be a great player. Very talented.

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 9:26 pm

I agree a real shame for Liam.
In my opinion head and shoulders Wales best player, who has got even better since playing at Sarries.
I just can’t see where the attacking threat is coming from other than an intercept or a miraculous up and under from Biggar.
Actually maybe a cross field kick but that holds a big risk with the SA electric wingers.

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Post by stub on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 9:47 pm

Yeah, really sorry that Liam will miss out. Class player.

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Post by Taylorman on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 10:01 pm

lostinwales wrote:
miaow wrote:
BamBam wrote:With Kolbe also out, that's both teams best strike runner missing

That would be North for Wales. Probably Mapimpi for SA as well.

No. North is great when he gets some space to get his speed up, but he can be countered. Liam Williams is so much more dangerous.

Yes and he can counter on a dime. Thats what impressed when he started. He threw himself into everything full on. Was a welcome relief from watching Halfpenney clock in and out each match from 30 yards back.

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Post by The Oracle on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 10:22 pm

SF2 - Match Thread - WALES v SOUTH AFRICA - 27/10/19 - K/O 09:00 GMT - Page 6 21417f10
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Post by RiscaGame on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 10:33 pm

The Oracle wrote:SF2 - Match Thread - WALES v SOUTH AFRICA - 27/10/19 - K/O 09:00 GMT - Page 6 21417f10

Laugh

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Post by miaow on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 10:45 pm

lostinwales wrote:
miaow wrote:
BamBam wrote:With Kolbe also out, that's both teams best strike runner missing

That would be North for Wales. Probably Mapimpi for SA as well.

No. North is great when he gets some space to get his speed up, but he can be countered. Liam Williams is so much more dangerous.

Strike runners are generally going at speed and go through space executed by strike moves - involving dummy runs etc. North is the best strike runner in the Welsh team as he is the fasted and the most powerful running back. If people were more familiar with terminology it would help, but the over-confidence on these boards becomes far too personal far too frequently. It's ok not to know things.

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Post by miaow on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 10:48 pm

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:I agree a real shame for Liam.
In my opinion head and shoulders Wales best player, who has got even better since playing at Sarries.
I just can’t see where the attacking threat is coming from other than an intercept or a miraculous up and under from Biggar.
Actually maybe a cross field kick but that holds a big risk with the SA electric wingers.

This is a really strange line.

I don't see much improvement in him - no moreso than comes with age an experience having become the Lions 15. The same people laughing at the idea Liam Williams was world class only 2-3 years ago are now singing his praises and talking about his improvement when, really - through no fault of their own, now, due to the broadcasting, but less so then - it's just through lack of wathing him play and understanding how good he actually always has been. He's up there as Wales' best player, but Tipuric and Faletau probably still take that title - ironically, of course, both underrated depending on who you speak to, particularly when it comes to their possible selection ahead of Lions competition from other nations.


Last edited by miaow on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 10:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by miaow on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 10:49 pm

The Oracle wrote:SF2 - Match Thread - WALES v SOUTH AFRICA - 27/10/19 - K/O 09:00 GMT - Page 6 21417f10

Good photo.

Both struggling lid wise...

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Post by miaow on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 11:11 pm

miaow wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
miaow wrote:
BamBam wrote:With Kolbe also out, that's both teams best strike runner missing

That would be North for Wales. Probably Mapimpi for SA as well.

No. North is great when he gets some space to get his speed up, but he can be countered. Liam Williams is so much more dangerous.

Strike runners are generally going at speed and go through space executed by strike moves - involving dummy runs etc. North is the best strike runner in the Welsh team as he is the fasted and the most powerful running back. If people were more familiar with terminology it would help, but the over-confidence on these boards becomes far too personal far too frequently. It's ok not to know things.

Just to clear this up without it devolving in to a personal titt for tat...and also, because it's sort of fun to watch these, because I'm not sure there are many better strike runners in the NH - and it's always nice to watch players in full flow...

George North as a strike runner:







https://youtu.be/0HHlsL9tZAU?t=82

https://youtu.be/7E2doKt7-U0?t=335



Liam Williams as a strike runner:



I'm sure I could find many more instances for both, and instances that contradict these points, but I'm just reiterating what a strike move is so people are sure, and perhaps non-Welsh fans might not realise how often, how effectively, and how successfully North is used as a strike runner. As you can see, for this particular skill, North is ideal - less so Liam, who I believe is better in broken field, as I'll show below. I feel similarly for Kolbe, whose use of balance and agility and speed is less suited to strike moves than it is broken field running.



https://youtu.be/EOWcBUQtaOk?t=49

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 11:13 pm

"It's for Wales, your Highness. See - WRU, that means Wales Rugby Union. Yes, the place you are Prince of. That's it. - No, no, your sons follow the White one that's called England. Yes, the one your Mother lives in."

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Post by maestegmafia on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 11:46 pm

SecretFly wrote:"It's for Wales, your Highness.  See - WRU, that means Wales Rugby Union.  Yes, the place you are Prince of.  That's it.   -  No, no, your sons follow the White one that's called England.  Yes, the one your Mother lives in."

Prince William Vice Patron of the Welsh Rugby Union

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 11:53 pm

Hmmm...yes but.... what shirt is under his pillow as it were?

No harm done though... it's just that Charles has the puzzled expression he often wears when out of his comfort zone.

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Post by maestegmafia on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 11:55 pm

SecretFly wrote:Hmmm...yes but.... what shirt is under his pillow as it were?

No harm done though... it's just that Charles has the puzzled expression he often wears when out of his comfort zone.  

His mother, that we all know both boys were close to was always a big supporter of wales and in rugby to. It appears William has followed his mother’s lead.

We call it the light side of the force, in starwars terms

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