SF2 - Match Thread - WALES v SOUTH AFRICA - 27/10/19 - K/O 09:00 GMT

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Post by miaow on Thu 17 Oct 2019, 9:56 pm

First topic message reminder :

Again, making these early for the sake of ease and consistency.

WALES

Team:Halfpenny; North, J Davies, Parkes, Adams; Biggar, G Davies; Wyn Jones, Owens, Francis, Ball, Alun Wyn Jones (capt), Wainwright, Moriarty, Tipuric.

Replacements: Dee, R Carre, D Lewis, Beard, Shingler, T Williams, Patchell, Watkin.

SOUTH AFRICA

South Africa: Le Roux; Nkosi, Am, De Allende, Mapimpi; Pollard, De Klerk; Mtawarira, Mbonambi, Malherbe, Etzebeth, De Jager, Kolisi (capt), Du Toit, Vermeulen

Replacements: Marx, Kitschoff, Koch, Snyman, Mostert, Louw, H Jantjies, Steyn



Venue: Yokohama
Referee:
AR1:
AR2:
TMO:


Last edited by miaow on Thu 24 Oct 2019, 1:51 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Post by Old Man on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 5:57 pm

We gave away stupid penalties and Willie le Roux made some serious handling errors. So that was where the frustration came, I don’t think either team “faded” though, but neither team were ever in control of the match.

As for the final, unless Rassie makes a few hard calls (le Roux) and the Boks bring more intensity and attacking nouse it won’t be a pleasant experience.

One thing is certain though, the English pack won’t boss the Bok pack the way they did NZ

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Post by tigertattie on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 6:00 pm

miaow wrote:
tigertattie wrote:One of the SA forwards needs to clatter Tomos. Very ruck he tries to taunt them to come early

You sound like a second row?

It’s something that annoys me. It’s like players who feign they are gravely injured when they’ve been hit by a dubious tackle and try to make the referee have a look at the replay. It needs nipped in the bud before it becomes the accepted norm.

Faking you are about to pick up the ball os easy to get rid of too, just go back to the old way of “hands on” means the ball is out. It will speed the play up too with 9s not crouched down behind a ruck for 20 mins getting ready to pass the ball.
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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 6:01 pm

I actually wouldnt be surprised if the English pack will boss SAs pack a bit.

England should win the final anyway fairly easily if all goes to form. SA looked good in the group stages but not great now.

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Post by robbo277 on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 7:16 pm

Tigertattie

I'm fairly sure there is something in the rules about not being allowed to feint that the ball is out in the current rules. You never see it enforced though.

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Post by miaow on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 7:21 pm

Yeah, I can see that law being tightened up soon, rather than going back to hands on being out.

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Post by miaow on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 7:23 pm

Just a thought on Warren - next time he'll play SA will be with the Lions. Where you imagine a fair few of the Welsh boys playing tonight will be involved.

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Post by Cyril on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 7:33 pm

Lord preserve us from three more Tests like today’s!

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Post by tigertattie on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 7:38 pm

Cyril wrote:Lord preserve us from three more Tests like today’s!

It will be Interesting to see what happens.

Will gatland give his loyal welsh servants a jolly or will he pick the team he thinks will win and boost his coaching credentials

The last tour was at least in part a welsh player development tour.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 7:42 pm

Gats has always picked the team he thinks will win. He has a better Lions record than any other coach.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 7:44 pm

Yeah let’s hope Pivac has retained his ability to play an open game. All this negativity, stopping the other side from playing to win is embarrassing. England’s entire game plan was to shut down the time and space of the All Blacks. ABs trued to play an open running game.

SA and Wales decide they don’t want to play, neither of them, kicking to the other all day.

Games become a farce. Nobody wants to play rugby anymore cos they’re scared of what the ABs are going to do.

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Post by TightHEAD on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 7:46 pm

Lol
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Post by TightHEAD on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 7:46 pm

Go to bed fella Laugh
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Post by miaow on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 7:49 pm

Definitely go back to bed. No points for style in rugby. Or is that why you don't go and play Fiji, T?

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Post by Cyril on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 7:56 pm

Did Taylorman really just say that England played negative rugby? A bit of an about-face from yesterday? The NZ try (and only points) was from an England mistake.

Utterly dominated and saved from a 20-odd point defeat by a couple of 50-50 at best decisions.

Taylor, you were pretty good in defeat yesterday.

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Post by TightHEAD on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 8:01 pm

Just upset I think. Sad
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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 8:03 pm

To all Welsh fans.

Did Wales actually miss Liam Williams at full back today for his attacking threat running the ball back. Or was you satisfied with how Halfpenny wen't

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Post by miaow on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 8:04 pm

Yes and no. Halfpenny played well but was caught out once or twice - Liam would have done no better. Would have been ideal at #23 or starting on the wing, though. Watkin was never exploited but was also not really in the game.

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Post by Heaf on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 8:09 pm

Cyril wrote:Did Taylorman really just say that England played negative rugby? A bit of an about-face from yesterday? The NZ try (and only points) was from an England mistake.

Utterly dominated and saved from a 20-odd point defeat by a couple of 50-50 at best decisions.

Taylor, you were pretty good in defeat yesterday.

Think he must have been on the pop or something?

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Post by Heaf on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 8:11 pm

Taylorman wrote:Yeah let’s hope Pivac has retained his ability to play an open game. All this negativity, stopping the other side from playing to win is embarrassing. England’s entire game plan was to shut down the time and space of the All Blacks. ABs trued to play an open running game.

SA and Wales decide they don’t want to play, neither of them, kicking to the other all day.

Games become a farce. Nobody wants to play rugby anymore cos they’re scared of what the ABs are going to do.

Yeah scoring in the first 90 seconds is pretty negative stuff Headscratch

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Post by The Oracle on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 8:17 pm

Back to the England v NZ match thread you lot! Shoo!
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Post by lostinwales on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 8:30 pm

tigertattie wrote:
Cyril wrote:Lord preserve us from three more Tests like today’s!

It will be Interesting to see what happens.

Will gatland give his loyal welsh servants a jolly or will he pick the team he thinks will win and boost his coaching credentials

The last tour was at least in part a welsh player development tour.  


Certainly not a Scottish player development tour

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Post by LondonTiger on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 8:43 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:To all Welsh fans.

Did Wales actually miss Liam Williams at full back today for his attacking threat running the ball back. Or was you satisfied with how Halfpenny wen't

I saw up to and including SA try, then had to travel and listened to the rest. From what I saw 1/2p was excellent. The issues were in front of him.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 8:48 pm

Heaf wrote:
Cyril wrote:Did Taylorman really just say that England played negative rugby? A bit of an about-face from yesterday? The NZ try (and only points) was from an England mistake.

Utterly dominated and saved from a 20-odd point defeat by a couple of 50-50 at best decisions.

Taylor, you were pretty good in defeat yesterday.

Think he must have been on the pop or something?

How many times did the ball travel through the hands to the wings. What creativity did England bring about other than effecting turnovers, huge defensive screening, both of which are designed to stop the other side playing, and both of which are key to the win.

Reason you don’t understand that, is because you don’t know what creative rugby is. What England does has its place, but it’s based on negativity. NH rugby , as shown by this tournament. Is a bore. It’s designed to stop others playing. Simple. I don’t care about the loss. I care about having our sides having to continuously play against sides so scared of moving the ball that they strangle by winning.

Anyway, England to win it but I don’t expect it to be one of the classics. It’ll be who can throttle who the most.

Yay.


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Post by TightHEAD on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 8:51 pm

England didn't need to get out of 2nd gear, the game was over within 2mins.
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Post by Taylorman on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 8:53 pm

You did though, you had biased refs and ABs always favoured in the first ten minutes. Who does that?

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 8:57 pm

England were worth about a 20 to 30 point win. Refs bailed NZ out from bagging a hiding.

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Post by TightHEAD on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 8:59 pm

Didn't they just, two good tries chalked off.
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Post by The Oracle on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 8:59 pm

Taylorman wrote:
Heaf wrote:
Cyril wrote:Did Taylorman really just say that England played negative rugby? A bit of an about-face from yesterday? The NZ try (and only points) was from an England mistake.

Utterly dominated and saved from a 20-odd point defeat by a couple of 50-50 at best decisions.

Taylor, you were pretty good in defeat yesterday.

Think he must have been on the pop or something?

How many times did the ball travel through the hands to the wings. What creativity did England bring about other than effecting turnovers, huge defensive screening, both of which are designed to stop the other side playing, and both of which are key to the win.

Reason you don’t understand that, is because you don’t know what creative rugby is. What England does has its place, but it’s based on negativity. NH rugby , as shown by this tournament. Is a bore. It’s designed to stop others playing. Simple. I don’t care about the loss. I care about having our sides having to continuously play against sides so scared of moving the ball that they strangle by winning.

Anyway, England to win it but I don’t expect it to be one of the classics. It’ll be who can throttle who the most.

Yay.


As a Welsh fan I’m pre-programmed to find fault and negativity in English rugby. But even I have to say..... what the f**k?! Yes Ireland and Wales played boring ‘NH’ rugby. But England in the semi threw it about! How can you say it was negative rugby? Watson got the ball on the wing plenty. They were offloading, including props, all game. Really don’t know what game you were watching. All I saw was NZ kicking the ball as they ran out of ideas and their attack was too poor to create anything to move them down the pitch. NZ were the negative ones. “Here, we’ll kick the ball to you because we can’t think of anything to do with it”.
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Post by Heaf on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 9:00 pm

Taylorman wrote:
Heaf wrote:
Cyril wrote:Did Taylorman really just say that England played negative rugby? A bit of an about-face from yesterday? The NZ try (and only points) was from an England mistake.

Utterly dominated and saved from a 20-odd point defeat by a couple of 50-50 at best decisions.

Taylor, you were pretty good in defeat yesterday.

Think he must have been on the pop or something?

How many times did the ball travel through the hands to the wings. What creativity did England bring about other than effecting turnovers, huge defensive screening, both of which are designed to stop the other side playing, and both of which are key to the win.

Reason you don’t understand that, is because you don’t know what creative rugby is. What England does has its place, but it’s based on negativity. NH rugby , as shown by this tournament. Is a bore. It’s designed to stop others playing. Simple. I don’t care about the loss. I care about having our sides having to continuously play against sides so scared of moving the ball that they strangle by winning.

Anyway, England to win it but I don’t expect it to be one of the classics. It’ll be who can throttle who the most.

Yay.

England scored within 90 seconds from a line-out on half way - not creative? Only off turnovers?

We don't understand creative rugby ... you do know how arrogant that sounds don't you?

And NZ never try to stop the other side playing - Richie spent his career trying to stop the other side and was bloody good at it - but he was just negative I guess ...

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 9:01 pm

SA play the most boring rugby of all sides, kick kick maul kick

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Post by miaow on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 9:06 pm

[quote="Taylorman"NH rugby , as shown by this tournament. Is a bore. It’s designed to stop others playing. Simple. I don’t care about the loss.[/quote]

There we go, folks. It took 24 hours, but the NH bad, SH good delusion is bad in full flow.

Sleep depravation man...not good...genuinely. I was reading this study by sleep experts, and being awake is, in essence, slowloy damaging your brain. Think that old '4 hour sleep' mantra of workaholics (many of whom ended up with dementia...) is good? Nope. You need an optial 7.5-8 hours a day, with little room for deviation each way.

Get some more sleep, T. This isn't good for you. You said you had a gf - go make your life better together. Trolling Europeans/Brits is hardly fun now you're no longer champs? Come on. Sort out those underlying issues. Be happy. Love life.

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Post by Old Man on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 9:19 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:SA play the most boring rugby of all sides, kick kick maul kick

laughing laughing laughing Yahoo Yahoo

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Post by Cyril on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 9:41 pm

Taylorman is broken. He was pretty magnanimous in defeat yesterday (fair play) but maybe he’s on the drink now or in denial.

His team were smashed. Not just beaten, but destroyed. NZ fans aren’t used it it. Maybe give him a break?

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Post by Galted on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 9:49 pm

Cyril wrote:Taylorman is broken. He was pretty magnanimous in defeat yesterday (fair play) but maybe he’s on the drink now or in denial.

His team were smashed. Not just beaten, but destroyed. NZ fans aren’t used it it. Maybe give him a break?

I'm of the opinion that there are a number of Taylormen, possibly due to their town only having one computer.  This would explain the inconsistency in dealing with defeat and remembering facts as well as the 24-hour posting.
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Post by Taylorman on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 10:03 pm

Cyril wrote:Taylorman is broken. He was pretty magnanimous in defeat yesterday (fair play) but maybe he’s on the drink now or in denial.

His team were smashed. Not just beaten, but destroyed. NZ fans aren’t used it it. Maybe give him a break?

Na, you just can’t handle the conversation, Cyril. I’ve talked about rugby and you aren’t up to the discussion. Right we aren’t used to it, but I’m not crying here. You’re expecting gushing over England. You won’t get it from me. Happy to discuss rugby when you feel you’re up to it.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 10:05 pm

miaow wrote:[quote="Taylorman"NH rugby , as shown by this tournament. Is a bore. It’s designed to stop others playing. Simple. I don’t care about the loss.

There we go, folks. It took 24 hours, but the NH bad, SH good delusion is bad in full flow.

Sleep depravation man...not good...genuinely. I was reading this study by sleep experts, and being awake is, in essence, slowloy damaging your brain. Think that old '4 hour sleep' mantra of workaholics (many of whom ended up with dementia...) is good? Nope. You need an optial 7.5-8 hours a day, with little room for deviation each way.

Get some more sleep, T. This isn't good for you. You said you had a gf - go make your life better together. Trolling Europeans/Brits is hardly fun now you're no longer champs? Come on. Sort out those underlying issues. Be happy. Love life.[/quote]

Didn’t you just lose it and swear here? Is there a mental problem we should know about before engaging? It’s 11 am here Miaow. We don’t tend to sleep at that time.

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Post by Heaf on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 10:08 pm

Well tbh it did sound a bit like it given you said England were negative, uncreative, boring etc just because their defence got on top of the mighty ABs ...

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 10:10 pm

So far Ive praised England for winning, several times. I’ve explained why I thought we lost, and what we can do about it going forward. I’ve said the NZh sides play negative rugby, as their core game plan.

Something all three of Wales, Ireland and England did. England kicking it to Oz to make mistakes, and scoring from them. And in our match strangling us out of the game. That’s cool, it worked. Doesn’t mean it’s not negative, something that’s seems to touch a raw nerve here.

And all Ive heard is crying about haka’s, lack of humility etc etc.

Let’s hope the final is a free flowing ...ha ha, who am Kidding...

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 10:11 pm

Heaf wrote:Well tbh it did sound a bit like it given you said England were negative, uncreative, boring etc just because their defence got on top of the mighty ABs ...

Their game plan was definitely negative. How was it not?

Can you describe what th3 core of the England game plan was if not.

Love to hear it.

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 10:14 pm

Heaf wrote:Well tbh it did sound a bit like it given you said England were negative, uncreative, boring etc just because their defence got on top of the mighty ABs ...

And who does England's defence? A Kiwi.

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Post by miaow on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 10:16 pm

Galted wrote:
Cyril wrote:Taylorman is broken. He was pretty magnanimous in defeat yesterday (fair play) but maybe he’s on the drink now or in denial.

His team were smashed. Not just beaten, but destroyed. NZ fans aren’t used it it. Maybe give him a break?

I'm of the opinion that there are a number of Taylormen, possibly due to their town only having one computer.  This would explain the inconsistency in dealing with defeat and remembering facts as well as the 24-hour posting.

A Taylorman or Taylormen?




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Post by Heaf on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 10:16 pm

England were better in both attack and defence ... just because the ABs didn't have the skill or creativity to break that defence doesn't mean England were negative.

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Post by Mr Bounce on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 10:16 pm

It certainly was a dreary game to watch. You really can't attribute blame to either side in particular - it was attritional and at times boring. It's such a shame for the casual fan.

I feel for the Welsh fans - this was a game that Wales could have won, and probably should have. However this was a very negative match - a real grinding the gears kind of game. Not pleasant.

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Post by Heaf on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 10:18 pm

So what was the ABs plan - run around a lot and hope nobody tries to tackle them? Or is it like the Haka - the other team are just meant to watch in awe from a distance?

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Post by miaow on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 10:19 pm

Taylorman wrote:Can you describe what th3 core of the England game plan was if not.

Yes. Smash the sheet out of anything in a black shirt, be accurate with the ball, and win.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 10:29 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Heaf wrote:Well tbh it did sound a bit like it given you said England were negative, uncreative, boring etc just because their defence got on top of the mighty ABs ...

And who does England's defence?  A Kiwi.

Exactly. The two coaches that played each other in the semi in 2003 where Oz completely shut down NZ the same way,

Why is that not an obvious pairing? Who in the world is going to know more about shutting down NZ in a World Cup semi than Jones and Mitchell?

That is what we, Hansen, didnt cover off enough. At its core, some things never change, and that semi held the key to knocking the ABs off, especially when Hansen is trying to do some new, out there game plan based on two months of success, out on a limb.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 10:30 pm

Heaf wrote:So what was the ABs plan - run around a lot and hope nobody tries to tackle them?  Or is it like the Haka - the other team are just meant to watch in awe from a distance?

I’d answer, but like others, you just want to be childish.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 10:34 pm

miaow wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Can you describe what th3 core of the England game plan was if not.

Yes. Smash the sheet out of anything in a black shirt, be accurate with the ball, and win.

Exactly. Negatively based, because in works, in that order. In my experience smashing the sheet out of anything hasn’t often reflected positivity.

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Post by Heaf on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 10:37 pm

Hmmmm ... claiming a side that made NZ look average is negative comes over as sulking - which is pretty childish.

Educate us all then and explain what NZ were trying to do that England weren't doing?

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Post by miaow on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 10:38 pm

In all fairness the game is unrecognisable to 2003. The experience gleaned from 2003 - where one was literally a loser - is finding causation with correlation. Or, talking balls.

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