Bronze - Match Thread - NEW ZEALAND v WALES - 1/11/19 - K/O 09:00 GMT

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Post by miaow on Thu 17 Oct 2019, 9:57 pm

First topic message reminder :

Again, making these early for the sake of ease and consistency.

NZ

Team:

1. Joe Moody (44)
2. Dane Coles (68)
3. Nepo Laulala (24)
4. Brodie Retallick (80)
5. Scott Barrett (35)
6. Shannon Frizell (8)
7. Sam Cane (67)
8. Kieran Read - captain (126)
9. Aaron Smith (91)
10. Richie Mo’unga (16)
11. Rieko Ioane (28)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (56)
13. Ryan Crotty (47)
14. Ben Smith (83)
15. Beauden Barrett (82)
16. Liam Coltman (7)
17. Atu Moli (7)
18. Angus Ta'avao (13)
19. Patrick Tuipulotu (29)
20. Matt Todd (24)
21. Brad Weber (4)
22. Anton Lienert-Brown (41)
23. Jordie Barrett (16)


WALES

Team:

1. Nicky Smith (Ospreys) (34 Caps)
2. Ken Owens (Scarlets) (72 Caps)
3. Dillon Lewis (Cardiff Blues) (21 Caps)
4. Adam Beard (Ospreys) (19 Caps)
5. Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys) (133 Caps) (CAPT)
6. Justin Tipuric (Ospreys) (71 Caps)
7. James Davies (Scarlets) (7 Caps)
8. Ross Moriarty (Dragons) (40 Caps)
9. Tomos Williams (Cardiff Blues) (15 Caps)
10. Rhys Patchell (Scarlets) (18 Caps)
11. Josh Adams (Cardiff Blues) (20 Caps)
12. Owen Watkin (Ospreys) (21 Caps)
13. Jonathan Davies (Scarlets) (80 Caps)
14. Owen Lane (Cardiff Blues) (1 Cap)
15. Hallam Amos (Cardiff Blues) (21 Caps)

Replacements:

16. Elliot Dee (Dragons) (27 Caps)
17. Rhys Carre (Saracens) (4 Caps)
18. Wyn Jones (Scarlets) (21 Caps)
19. Jake Ball (Scarlets) (41 Caps)
20. Aaron Shingler (Scarlets) (25 Caps)
21. Gareth Davies (Scarlets) (50 Caps)
22. Dan Biggar (Northampton Saints) (78 Caps)
23. Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets) (24 Caps)

Injury update (Players not considered for selection):

Tomas Francis – Subluxation of left shoulder and will require ongoing assessment
George North – Hamstring injury
Aaron Wainwright – Hamstring injury
Leigh Halfpenny – Concussion​
Liam Williams - Ankle Surgery


Venue: Tokyo
Referee:
AR1:
AR2:
TMO:


Last edited by miaow on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 4:54 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Post by miaow on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 9:50 pm

Don't you have a politician to harass on twitter, mikey? You seem the type.

Enough now.


Last edited by LondonTiger on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 10:29 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Modding)

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Post by maestegmafia on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 9:51 pm

This is the fourth time the kiwis have been in the Third/Fourth play off, that is more than Wales or France who played this match three times.

Wales have won one lost one kiwis won two lost one

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Post by Galted on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 10:01 pm

maestegmafia wrote:This is the fourth time the kiwis have been in the Third/Fourth play off, that is more than Wales or France who played this match three times.

Wales have won one lost one kiwis won two lost one

Pipe down maesteg, you're detracting from the Mikey/Miaow conflict.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 10:03 pm

miaow wrote:Don't you have a politician to harass on twitter, mikey? You seem the type.

In what shape or form is this comment relevant to rugby union, the RWC, and the subject?

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 10:05 pm

Galted wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:This is the fourth time the kiwis have been in the Third/Fourth play off, that is more than Wales or France who played this match three times.

Wales have won one lost one kiwis won two lost one

Pipe down maesteg, you're detracting from the Mikey/Miaow conflict.

You know, there's a way you can solve that...

I didn't know NZ had been in that many 3rd place play-offs. I know the one of the years they were it was against SA, and it was a 50 pointer for NZ...

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Post by majesticimperialman on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 10:30 pm

With all those injured players it will be hard too see if Wales could keep the score down to  below 40 points win for the all blacks.

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Post by Taylorman on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 10:30 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Afro wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:
Afro wrote:I'm guessing we might see McNicholl and Halaholo in that Barbarians game?

That'll definitely happen, which is fine.

From a selfish POV, it would be nice for Dragons to not lose more players. We have a very winnable fixture against Zebre that day, so hopefully the likes of Ollie Griffiths and Leon Brown don't get used Wink

Halaholo's becoming eligible might come at the perfect time. McNicholl is an exciting option, but the shortage of centres at the WC and the fact we were talking about North moving inside means Halaholo is probably needed more

I'm not sure if the Baa-baa's game is a capped one, I think we have to request it. I think Halaholo and McNicholl are both in line to get capped. Both are quality players and have stated their intention is to play for Wales. I think Parkes is already on his way out of the international scene and I would be surprised if he's kept on for longer than another season, but Pivac likes him so why not.

Johnny McNichol? The Crusader? Wonder what happened to him. Not a bad little winger. Wasn't ever on the AB radar from memory but a handy winger nonetheless.

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Post by Taylorman on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 10:34 pm

maestegmafia wrote:This is the fourth time the kiwis have been in the Third/Fourth play off, that is more than Wales or France who played this match three times.

Wales have won one lost one kiwis won two lost one

The lineup this week is probably one we should have gone with vs England but it wouldnt have mattered, we werent going to win that.

Anything can happen here. I think the sides lost a lot of energy since the loss and Wales have probably had enough rugby by now as well, playing their full quota as well as having tight struggles in the tier one efforts.

Toss a coin?

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Post by miaow on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 10:36 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
miaow wrote:Don't you have a politician to harass on twitter, mikey? You seem the type.

In what shape or form is this comment relevant to rugby union, the RWC, and the subject?

When's that stopped you? Either way, you just strike me as the exact type to do that sort of thing.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 10:55 pm

miaow wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
miaow wrote:Don't you have a politician to harass on twitter, mikey? You seem the type.

In what shape or form is this comment relevant to rugby union, the RWC, and the subject?

When's that stopped you? Either way, you just strike me as the exact type to do that sort of thing.

Not sure what you're going on about, again. Mods are happy with this sort of behaviour I take it? All I see from this one is false and pretentious accusations against people that disagree.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 10:58 pm

Taylorman wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Afro wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:
Afro wrote:I'm guessing we might see McNicholl and Halaholo in that Barbarians game?

That'll definitely happen, which is fine.

From a selfish POV, it would be nice for Dragons to not lose more players. We have a very winnable fixture against Zebre that day, so hopefully the likes of Ollie Griffiths and Leon Brown don't get used Wink

Halaholo's becoming eligible might come at the perfect time. McNicholl is an exciting option, but the shortage of centres at the WC and the fact we were talking about North moving inside means Halaholo is probably needed more

I'm not sure if the Baa-baa's game is a capped one, I think we have to request it. I think Halaholo and McNicholl are both in line to get capped. Both are quality players and have stated their intention is to play for Wales. I think Parkes is already on his way out of the international scene and I would be surprised if he's kept on for longer than another season, but Pivac likes him so why not.

Johnny McNichol? The Crusader? Wonder what happened to him. Not a bad little winger. Wasn't ever on the AB radar from memory but a handy winger nonetheless.

Yeah that one. Such a good attacking player and pretty much picked up where he left off at Crusaders. Pivac played him at full-back a lot so he's more of a back 3 player now, that will come in handy should he step up and play for Wales. His defence from 15 needs to improve though.

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Post by RiscaGame on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 11:38 pm

Taylorman wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:This is the fourth time the kiwis have been in the Third/Fourth play off, that is more than Wales or France who played this match three times.

Wales have won one lost one kiwis won two lost one

The lineup this week is probably one we should have gone with vs England but it wouldnt have mattered, we werent going to win that.

Anything can happen here. I think the sides lost a lot of energy since the loss and Wales have probably had enough rugby by now as well, playing their full quota as well as having tight struggles in the tier one efforts.

Toss a coin?

Gatland said in his presser, that Steve Tew and our team manager suggested doing a boat race instead. That’s a better idea.

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Post by Taylorman on Thu 31 Oct 2019, 12:44 am

Be more fun though the sides of the 80's would probably down this lot...still Very Happy
Just hope its played in good spirit. Probably more value to Foster than Hansen to win this now a Foster case for head coach might be a struggle.

With the changing of the guard to things northern it might be a good thing to get someone like Gats in there.

Overseas possibilities (regardless of the contracts they may or may not have, if any) are limited to Gats and Joseph, Schmidt, Rennie, Cotter, Brown, Lam and a couple of others.

Joseph and Rennie tick the Maori/ PI (Rennie is Rarotongan) box that we will probably trend towards in the panel make up. Gats tied up with the Lions and Schmidt on a break probably rules them out. Rennies linked by gossip to Oz, so Joseph could be the best overseas bet. Scott Robertson is the best local bet.

So losing this match probably has more impact on Foster than any other single individual. Lose and the NZRU will want a clean out, if they dont already. Think this panel has done its run, since 2004.

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Post by Old Man on Thu 31 Oct 2019, 7:23 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
Galted wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:This is the fourth time the kiwis have been in the Third/Fourth play off, that is more than Wales or France who played this match three times.

Wales have won one lost one kiwis won two lost one

Pipe down maesteg, you're detracting from the Mikey/Miaow conflict.

You know, there's a way you can solve that...

I didn't know NZ had been in that many 3rd place play-offs. I know the one of the years they were it was against SA, and it was a 50 pointer for NZ...

Incorrect, the thrid place play off between SA and NZ was 22-18 in favour of SA Wink

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Post by Pal Joey on Thu 31 Oct 2019, 7:31 am

They walloped France 40-13 in 2003. I think that's the match mikey's referring to?
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Post by Breadvan on Thu 31 Oct 2019, 8:21 am

The Oracle wrote:I wonder if the injuries situation is due to us trying to play an attritional SA type game with players who are not big enough and powerful enough for it?  We seem to have a very similar game plan to SA (hence it was a bit of a snooze-fest) but, as demonstrated when we met them in the semi, we've not got the bulk to do it as well as they do.  I remember a number of occasions we were trying to crash it up and being manhandled and picked up and chucked about.  So playing that way with guys slightly too small for it....... well, it must be a contributory factor to injuries?

Yes, this. Wales looked threatening when they went out wide and had SA scrambling. If not for a couple of forward passes it might've been adifferent game but Wales went into classic Gatlandball and played in SA hands.
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Post by SecretFly on Thu 31 Oct 2019, 8:35 am

Breadvan wrote:
The Oracle wrote:I wonder if the injuries situation is due to us trying to play an attritional SA type game with players who are not big enough and powerful enough for it?  We seem to have a very similar game plan to SA (hence it was a bit of a snooze-fest) but, as demonstrated when we met them in the semi, we've not got the bulk to do it as well as they do.  I remember a number of occasions we were trying to crash it up and being manhandled and picked up and chucked about.  So playing that way with guys slightly too small for it....... well, it must be a contributory factor to injuries?

Yes, this. Wales looked threatening when they went out wide and had SA scrambling. If not for a couple of forward passes it might've been  adifferent game but Wales went into classic Gatlandball and played in SA hands.  

Shocked

He been reading too many Irish Rugby Theory threads. That's all that's wrong with Oracle. Some subscription treacle sandwiches and he'll be fine.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 31 Oct 2019, 8:45 am

On a more serious note - I don't think enough people appreciate just how good SA are at combating the elusive, pacey game of multi-directional width

After all, they play in a yearly Championship with perhaps three, but certainly two of the best traditional quick game opeators in the business.  Japan went ape-schidt crazy in the first half against them, trying to spread SA thin and gas them out.  It didn't work.

I think Wales might have used the best plan available to them but just timing wasn't right to get on the positive side of the scoreboard.... and SA are simply a bloody good side too.

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 31 Oct 2019, 12:51 pm

I really hope a Northern Hemisphere team can win the 3rd place playoff medal.

Christ that was hard to say, now I know what Gatland was going through!
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Post by miaow on Thu 31 Oct 2019, 1:24 pm

Agree with that Fly. Japan may well have got to a SF had they not faced SA in the QFs. SA are a good team. Wales played a very good gameplan to stay in the game, mitigate weaknesses, yet - when they'd really worked themselves in to position, when they'd done the hard work - they couldn't finish it off. What difference might keeping Biggar on the field have made?

This game looks like a game too far. We saw what Wales are like when unstructured and with the wrong players - still playing the game like it's 2006, running laterally, shipping it on. They looked poor v Uruguay and I can envisage a hammering against NZ.

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Post by whocares on Thu 31 Oct 2019, 7:00 pm

Good luck Wales - I know the odds are not in your favour (just actually looked at them!) but wish you the best for Gatland last game.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Thu 31 Oct 2019, 7:05 pm

Well, it is not long to go now before Wale v New Zealand game kicks off.

I would just like to say best of luck to Wales, hope you can win tomorrow.

I just hope it is a cracker, for both teams, who did not want to be here. But here they are it is a shame one team as too lose. 

For the good of NH rugby lets hope it is not Wales.

Good luck.

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Post by miaow on Thu 31 Oct 2019, 7:25 pm

Have to hope it's like the game in 2003 - the last time these two sides met in a RWC. Open, expansive, and the Welsh reserves giving the ABs a shock.

This was the 2011 final that should have been, but hard to justify it was the 2019 final that should have been.

A nothing game for Wales, this. The next 12 months could define where we are as a rugby nation, whether we dip back down without Gatland and our regions represent our true standing relative to England and France, or if Pivac can keep the relatively good times going and keep us at the top table in Europe every year.

But we'll get no indication of that tomorrow, or in the BaBas game. So let's just hope it's a decent spectacle - and a Welsh win!

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Post by majesticimperialman on Thu 31 Oct 2019, 7:42 pm

miaow

You say this is a nothing game for Wales.

So are you saying Wales wont even try to win this game?

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Post by miaow on Thu 31 Oct 2019, 7:52 pm

No, maj. I don't mean that.

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Post by miaow on Thu 31 Oct 2019, 8:03 pm

Just wondering if we'll look for the same again from Wales.



Big ask for Patchell to come in and replace Cliff Morgan.

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Post by Taylorman on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 2:23 am

Gosh did they have tv when Wales last won?

I know the wheel was around then. Fire? Whistle

Time for an update I reckon. Come on Wales!! Bronze - Match Thread - NEW ZEALAND v WALES - 1/11/19 - K/O 09:00 GMT - Page 4 3933776953

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Post by The Oracle on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 7:29 am

Dave Rennie to be the ABs next coach then by the sounds of it? Confirmed he’s received an ‘official approach’. Or have multiple people been approached?
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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 7:41 am

Miaows right, this is about as relevant as Englands 2020 summer tour will be to defining Wales' world cup and where they are in a years time.
That doesnt mean players wont try and that a victory wont be worthy of great celebration, but the idea that either side will be as switched on or engaged by this as they were the previous rounds is ridiculous.
Even in terms of team development its largely meaningless. For Walws it's close to a scratch side with a few players getting what could be a send off before they announce retirements.
A new leadership team is not going to be looking at this too closely when deciding on how they are going to take Wales forwards.

To be honest this years six nations could be a bit of a damp squib too with all teams in a transitional state and at least half of them with new coaches. Makes for a very unpredictable tournament ( isn't it always?) and the chance for some new players to stick their hands up but really I'd expect Wales and Ireland in particular to be a bit of a basket case for the next 12 months while they try and find the players to deliver a new brand of rugby.

Enjoy this for what it is, a rather silly game that neither team would really want to play in but will want to win. Doubly so Gatland.

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Post by Taylorman on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 8:29 am

Yeah well with Rassie stepping down as well the top three SH sides are also with new coaches and many new players so more are in that situation than not.

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Post by BigGee on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 8:59 am

Hope this is not a game to far for Wales, am a bit worried that it is though.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 9:00 am

Unusual for Read to lead the Haka isnt it? I assume a nod to his retirement?

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Post by tigertattie on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 9:03 am

Yeah Kama Te rolled out too. Looks like a nod to the boys finishing up along with Hansen.

NZ looking rather fired up to be honest. Wales wil lneed to bring thier A game!
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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 9:04 am

Surprised if Rennie is the next NZ coach, I would've thought he had been away from NZ too long.

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Post by BigGee on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 9:08 am

Good start from both team with some good attacking intent.

NZ miss an easy kick and then the prop runs one in from 40 yards!

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Post by Scottrf on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 9:08 am

Lovely offload and prop support play!

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Post by Afro on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 9:09 am

One thing learnt this morning. The Haka isn't half as good on the radio
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Post by BigGee on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 9:09 am

He does not miss twice

7-0 NZ

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 9:12 am

That was a good score by NZ. If it's that easy for them then this will be a long evening, or morning...

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 9:15 am

Wales are having a go at least even if its backwards every phase

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Post by BigGee on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 9:16 am

Smith should have used the winger there!

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 9:17 am

Well that was too easy. Very poor defending.

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Post by BigGee on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 9:17 am

Ooch, that was another soft one for BB

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 9:18 am

Shame Jeremy Kyle isnt on any more. Daytime TV recommendations anyone?

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 9:18 am

It's Dillon Lewis again... Liability at scrum time and has been poor around the field of play, usually his strength, in the last 3 games. This truth will probably upset miaow Sad

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Post by BigGee on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 9:18 am

Moanga adds the conversion

14-0 NZ

Wales need to get into this game now or it will run away from them

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 9:19 am

2 Tries in 13 mins, ouch looks like the All Blacks are being allowed to play this week.
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Post by BigGee on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 9:19 am

Here comes Wales chance

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 9:20 am

Take the points.
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Post by BigGee on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 9:20 am

Held up but an offside penalty

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