RWC final 19 - England v SA Match Thread - 02-11-2019 - Kick Off 09:00am

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Post by miaow on Thu 17 Oct 2019, 9:58 pm

First topic message reminder :

The big one. The Rugby World Cup Final.

ENGLAND

Elliot Daly; Anthony Watson, Manu Tuilagi, Owen Farrell, Jonny May, George Ford, Ben Youngs; Mako Vunipola, Jamie George, Kyle Sinckler, Maro Itoje, Courtney Lawes, Tom Curry, Sam Underhill, Billy Vunipola

Replacements: Luke Cowan-Dickie, Joe Marler, Dan Cole, George Kruis, Mark Wilson, Ben Spencer, Henry Slade, Jonathan Joseph

SOUTH AFRICA

Le Roux; Kolbe, Am, De Allende, Mapimpi; Pollard, De Klerk; Mtawarira, Mbonambi, Malherbe, Etzebeth, De Jager, Kolisi (capt), Du Toit, Vermeulen.

Replacements: Marx, Kitschoff, Koch, Snyman, Mostert, Louw, H Jantjies, Steyn

Venue: International Stadium, Yokohama
Referee: Jerome Garces
AR1: Romain Poite
AR2: Ben O'Keefe
TMO: Ben Skeen

Head to Head

42 Played 42
15 Won 25
25 Lost 15
2 Drawn 2

Recent Form

16 June 2012
Ellis Park, Johannesburg
36 – 27 to South Africa

23 June 2012
Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium,
Port Elizabeth
14 – 14 draw

24 November 2012
Twickenham, London
15 – 16 to South Africa

15 November 2014
Twickenham, London
28 – 31 to South Africa

12 November 2016
Twickenham, London
37 – 21 to England

9 June 2018
Ellis Park, Johannesburg
42 – 39 to South Africa

16 June 2018
Free State Stadium, Bloemfontein
23 – 12 to South Africa

23 June 2018
Newlands, Cape Town
10 – 25 to England

3 November 2018
Twickenham, London
12 – 11 to England


Last edited by miaow on Thu 31 Oct 2019, 1:20 pm; edited 4 times in total

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Post by TightHEAD on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 5:14 pm

Anyone done a long range weather check?

Just imagine if the game was called off!

I guess England would win as we've scored more points
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 5:14 pm

Only if you want to ignore the rest of the game miaow. The snyman charge happened earlier. Why not pick that out? Anyway that's a separate point in relation to likely tactics. Doubt either coach is going to be saying get a crafty dig in these days.

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Post by miaow on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 5:16 pm

On the game itself - and fresh in my mind of what SA did, without having any desire to rewatch the game - Etzebeth was really, really poor. Absolutely no opportunity to use his explosive talent: doesn't seem half as good when you grind him, and Snyman and de Jaeger look better for that sort of style.

The SA bench can match England's - Marx, two big props (one the Sarries boys will know well), Louw adding physicality in all areas. Less convinced about Frans Steyn and the midfield in general but they're big and strong and at this stage that's more of a positive than being a sparky creative player who may or may not turn up.

One thing that we haven't seen yet is the replacement 9 - Jantjies the scrum half. He is electric and if SA pull the 'f it, just run' card which they haven't had to yet, he might be a threat. Did he play v England last year? Might be worth looking at.

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Post by miaow on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 5:17 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Only if you want to ignore the rest of the game miaow. The snyman charge happened earlier. Why not pick that out? Anyway that's a separate point in relation to likely tactics. Doubt either coach is going to be saying get a crafty dig in these days.

I'm literally making the point that it wasn't the only thing that decided the game.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 5:21 pm

That's fine then miaow. You've got to understand I'm going to come back when the initial statement was it decided the game. Just clarity.

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Post by Old Man on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 5:24 pm

When did you score more points?

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Post by Heaf on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 5:34 pm

In the pool stages ...

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Post by miaow on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 5:35 pm

Also - who do you think refs the final?

Garces of Nige? Is it too obvious to say Nige as Wales are in the other game?

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Post by MightyQuin on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 5:39 pm

What a wonderful opportunity to win a 2nd World Cup in our 4th final.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 5:41 pm

It's going to be owens. Barnes will get the other.

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Post by whatahitson on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 5:42 pm

If England play like they did against New Zealand I believe we will win by fifteen or more points.

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Post by miaow on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 5:44 pm

Forgot about Barnes. Hopefully that's the case.

If Nige, you have to think it's advantage England.

If there's a SH TMO...it's advantage pot luck...

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Post by Old Man on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 5:51 pm

Heaf wrote:In the pool stages ...

Nope

England 119
SA 185

Unless you think England would have put 67 points on France.

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Post by Heaf on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 5:52 pm

Old Man wrote:
Heaf wrote:In the pool stages ...

Nope

England 119
SA 185

Unless you think England would have put 67 points on France.

Match points ...

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Post by Old Man on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 5:53 pm

Heaf wrote:
Old Man wrote:
Heaf wrote:In the pool stages ...

Nope

England 119
SA 185

Unless you think England would have put 67 points on France.

Match points ...

Log points?

They don’t count in a final

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Post by miaow on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 5:54 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Maes rather than post on both of these why not just get rid of one and join it up.

A relevant question. Why has a WUM duplicate post been allowed to run this long? There was a RWC final thread made before this - this started as Wales v England thread. Perhaps it's better to retire this until the 6Ns rolls around, merge the two, or lock this one mods?

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Post by miaow on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 5:56 pm



Last autumn's highlights.

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Post by Duty281 on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 6:04 pm

Amazing tackle from Farrell. Very Happy

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Post by miaow on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 6:06 pm

If he were playing rugby league 10 years ago, then yes, I agree! Textbook.

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Post by Heaf on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 6:06 pm

Old Man wrote:
Heaf wrote:
Old Man wrote:
Heaf wrote:In the pool stages ...

Nope

England 119
SA 185

Unless you think England would have put 67 points on France.

Match points ...

Log points?

They don’t count in a final

Ah true - that only counted for the semis ... would be PD, so I think that would be SA ...

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Post by BamBam on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 6:06 pm

Excellent forum captaincy miaow

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Post by miaow on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 6:07 pm

Also, how much of a Rugby League background does Farrell actually have? I got the impression he was playing Union from a young age, but perhaps not? His dad had him when he was 16 I believe, and then moved to Union in...2005? 2006? So mid teens for Farrell? Did he play both up until that point or switch? Has he ever played League? I see it mentioned but not sure if he picked that up by playing, or just by copying Papa Faz?

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Post by Old Man on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 6:11 pm

Herschel Jantjies only made his debut for SA this year.

Background
RC tries

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Post by miaow on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 6:33 pm

Ah right - van Zyl who played v England I believe. van Zyl was tricky against Wales when we played them as well, but not even worth a place in the squad? Reinach has looked class when I've seen him live - pace to burn too - yet seemingly no look in to the 23. Some depth in SA, fair play.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 6:38 pm

Good player too. SAs future 9, unless others come along of course, which they will. Time for SA to win another huh? Get the local players all excited again.

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Post by king_carlos on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 6:43 pm

miaow wrote:

Last autumn's highlights.


BBC wrote:
England:
 Daly; Nowell, Slade, Te'o, May; Farrell, Youngs; Wilson, Curry, Shields; Kruis, Itoje; Sinckler, Hartley, Hepburn

Replacements: Ashton for Nowell (65), Ford for Te'o (73), Care for Youngs (65), Mercer for Curry (42), Ewels for Shields (77), Williams for Sinckler (65), George for Hartley (57), Moon for Hepburn (half-time)

I'd forgotten how many key injuries England had in the Autumn. Both Vunipola's, Lawes, Underhill, Tuilagi, Watson all back fit. Marler out of retirement as well.

South Africa will have Faf de Klerk, Willie le Roux and likely Cheslin Kolbe back in who missed that game though.

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Post by TightHEAD on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 6:55 pm

I don't understand why someone keeps reporting my posts and topics?

This match thread was here first.
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Post by LondonTiger on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 6:58 pm

TightHEAD wrote:I don't understand why someone keeps reporting my posts and topics?

This match thread was here first.

I think the other one was, but was ignored as set up a week earlier. Anyway threads merged now.

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Post by TightHEAD on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 7:01 pm

Who makes match threads that early?

Anyone know what world rugby's contingency plan is if the final was to be called off due to unforeseen circumstances?
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Post by LondonTiger on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 7:03 pm

TightHEAD wrote:

Anyone know what world rugby's contingency plan is if the final was to be called off due to unforeseen circumstances?

Same as for other games knockout games.

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Post by TightHEAD on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 7:04 pm

Which is ?
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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 7:05 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Who makes match threads that early?

The person trying to dominate the forum, and being allowed to.

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Post by Heaf on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 7:10 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:

Anyone know what world rugby's contingency plan is if the final was to be called off due to unforeseen circumstances?

Same as for other games knockout games.

Don't think it's quite the same if cancelled. Up to semis decided on match points from pool stages, but final based on PD in tournament I believe?

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Post by LondonTiger on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 7:10 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Which is ?

It is in the rules section of the Rugby World Cup website. Sorry but after a crap journey home from a crap game at Welford Road I am too tired to try and cut and paste the info from my phone for the 5th time.

https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/tournament-rules

So just a link.


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Post by TightHEAD on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 7:12 pm

thumbsup
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Post by LondonTiger on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 7:13 pm

Heaf wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:

Anyone know what world rugby's contingency plan is if the final was to be called off due to unforeseen circumstances?

Same as for other games knockout games.

Don't think it's quite the same if cancelled.  Up to semis decided on match points from pool stages, but final based on PD in tournament I believe?

Aye, seems you are right. So SA win the tournament if Final is cancelled.

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Post by TightHEAD on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 7:30 pm

Let's hope the weather is not a factor.

But a hell of of a storm is coming SA way!
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Post by tigertattie on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 7:43 pm

Game better not be cancelled due to weather.

If it is Scotland will sue!

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Post by robbo277 on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 7:44 pm

If the game is rained out it will be postponed first. They'll try and play it within 48 hours.

If it is cancelled, it is decided by points difference. I believe match points (from the pool stages) are used in quarter finals and semi finals but not the final. So would go with South Africa.

Typhoon season is over though. Doesn't mean typhoons are impossible, just unlikely. And Hagibis was one of the worst in years by all accounts, so I'd be surprised if they couldn't get this one played.

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Post by LondonTiger on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 8:35 pm

Apologies for any sensible posts 8n the last 30 minutes or so. This thread got a little bit silly for a while, and being exhausted I found it easier to archive an entire section.
We are all emotional right now, so some tolerance and understanding is perhaps needed.

Thanks

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 8:37 pm

You took the sarries game hard then. Imagine how earl feels. 8 years older and he'd be set for a stellar career for England.


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Post by Heaf on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 8:37 pm

Phew - thought I'd been dreaming it for a minute (nightmare really) when suddenly a load of posts disappeared ...

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Post by LondonTiger on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 8:39 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:You took the series game hard then. Imagine how earl feels. 8 years older and he'd be set for a stellar career for England.

Sarries?

Well we were as crap as I expected. Game was pretty meh in general. I had a pleasant birthday lunch with family, but 2 hours driving each way is just a bit.........

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 8:41 pm

Yeah. Too eager with the old post button again. Happy birthday. Or happy family birthday.

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Post by LondonTiger on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 8:44 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yeah. Too eager with the old post button again. Happy birthday. Or happy family birthday.

Thanks. Another one down on the march to dotage and pension.

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Post by Taylorman on Mon 28 Oct 2019, 5:52 am

Going for the Boks next weekend are two things.

One, they’ve never lost a final. Vs NZ and vs England.

Two, they’ve won ugly with the semi final.

England have done neither, winning every match easily.

Going for England, it’s simple. They’re the best team here.

A real Prince and the pauper deal going on here.

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac on Mon 28 Oct 2019, 7:50 am

Also in a typical Gatland anti English barb he suggests maybe England have already played their final.
Suggesting perhaps we can’t reproduce that sort o performance next Saturday.

This was put to EJs and he replied, quite correctly, ‘ I hope Warren enjoys the 3rd 4th place play off’ !




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Post by lostinwales on Mon 28 Oct 2019, 8:02 am

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Also in a typical Gatland anti English barb he suggests maybe England have already played their final.
Suggesting perhaps we can’t reproduce that sort o performance next Saturday.

This was put to  EJs and he replied, quite correctly, ‘ I hope Warren enjoys the 3rd 4th place play off’ !

I think Gatland's comment is valid. It has been a feature of previous RWC's that the team that puts NZ out loses the next round. EJ's response is also valid Very Happy

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Post by Taylorman on Mon 28 Oct 2019, 8:12 am

Yeah it’s quite surreal though Eddie himself being one of them, in 03, beating ABs, losing final, is the perfect foil for that. He knows how this sht works. He won’t be falling for that again. Whether the players do is another story. They haven’t been on Eddies ride for long.

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Post by protea438 on Mon 28 Oct 2019, 8:17 am

Yeah beating the All Blacks doesnt give you the title automatically. Look at the French

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