RWC final 19 - England v SA Match Thread - 02-11-2019 - Kick Off 09:00am

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Post by miaow on Thu 17 Oct 2019, 9:58 pm

First topic message reminder :

The big one. The Rugby World Cup Final.

ENGLAND

Elliot Daly; Anthony Watson, Manu Tuilagi, Owen Farrell, Jonny May, George Ford, Ben Youngs; Mako Vunipola, Jamie George, Kyle Sinckler, Maro Itoje, Courtney Lawes, Tom Curry, Sam Underhill, Billy Vunipola

Replacements: Luke Cowan-Dickie, Joe Marler, Dan Cole, George Kruis, Mark Wilson, Ben Spencer, Henry Slade, Jonathan Joseph

SOUTH AFRICA

Le Roux; Kolbe, Am, De Allende, Mapimpi; Pollard, De Klerk; Mtawarira, Mbonambi, Malherbe, Etzebeth, De Jager, Kolisi (capt), Du Toit, Vermeulen.

Replacements: Marx, Kitschoff, Koch, Snyman, Mostert, Louw, H Jantjies, Steyn

Venue: International Stadium, Yokohama
Referee: Jerome Garces
AR1: Romain Poite
AR2: Ben O'Keefe
TMO: Ben Skeen

Head to Head

42 Played 42
15 Won 25
25 Lost 15
2 Drawn 2

Recent Form

16 June 2012
Ellis Park, Johannesburg
36 – 27 to South Africa

23 June 2012
Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium,
Port Elizabeth
14 – 14 draw

24 November 2012
Twickenham, London
15 – 16 to South Africa

15 November 2014
Twickenham, London
28 – 31 to South Africa

12 November 2016
Twickenham, London
37 – 21 to England

9 June 2018
Ellis Park, Johannesburg
42 – 39 to South Africa

16 June 2018
Free State Stadium, Bloemfontein
23 – 12 to South Africa

23 June 2018
Newlands, Cape Town
10 – 25 to England

3 November 2018
Twickenham, London
12 – 11 to England


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Post by miaow on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:07 am

yappysnap wrote:Anyone else feel like we're back in 2007? Error-Scrum-penalty-points. Over and over again. And a ref that is clueless enough to allow anything.

The tournament itself tailed off massively. No one's really dealt with the Japanese conditions very well and it's impacted the spectacle. Don't think Garces has been too good, but clueless?

Just a point again - Jonny May keeping the penalty infield. His foot was on the line when he jumped. Anyone know if that is in touch or not? I assumed it was?

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:08 am

Old Man wrote:
miaow wrote:Definitely one for the purists. SA manage to drag another game in to an arm wrestle, and so far, they're winning.

Absolutely nothing to really panic about for England - but some worries. Namely that, yes, despite the short turnaround, SA are a tough physical prospect, and the set piece is wobbling.

However, England have shown all they need is the ball in the Boks' half and they will create opportunities. England have a running and kicking game to fall back on if needs be. This is still on a knife edge.

If England can avoid turning the ball over in attack and allowing SA in - like from that fumbled exit from Faf towards the end which ended up in 3 points 50m down the field - then they are right in this as SA don't really look like scoring a try any other way.

Yeah, nah, disagree, SA have been looking good with ball in hand.

Absolutely nothing to worry about? Geez, there’s a heap to worry about. The score is the obvious one. The error rate is another, the inability to score despite being camped in the 22 for 10 minutes or so. The scrum is another. And that’s not counting the fact the Boks are matching England everywhere, ahead in most.

SA don’t look like scoring? They’ve looked more likely than apEngland.

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Post by ebop on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:08 am

In touch, they got it wrong
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Post by BigGee on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:09 am

Lawes off for kruise

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Post by miaow on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:09 am

No name Bertie wrote:Is this a case of England lose Kyle Sinckler, England lose the match?  SA are more or less getting points on every scrum within kickable distance.

I don't think so. Sinckler's hardly a world class scrummager - isn't Cole meant to be better? SA are just big and powerful.

Game isn't over either.

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Post by yappysnap on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:09 am

Wow.

The kiwis on here are unhappy about losing to England aren't they.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:09 am

Yeah if he was out to start with...he’s out. Geez that was a quick half time?

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:11 am

yappysnap wrote:Wow.

The kiwis on here are unhappy about losing to England aren't they.

Gotta keep the trophy within SANZAAR, simple as that thumbsup


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Post by miaow on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:11 am

yappysnap wrote:Wow.

The kiwis on here are unhappy about losing to England aren't they.

very. ridiculous points.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:12 am

Fafs forces them to throw it into touch again, he’s playing well...

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Post by RDW on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:13 am

Things just aren't clicking for England - passes not accurate, players standing still when receiving the ball etc

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Post by ebop on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:13 am

England rattled again and going nowhere
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Post by miaow on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:13 am

England looking decent but just overplaying in the end. A classic case of forcing it when you're hurtiing in the tight/not getting headway going straight. SA doing their job.

The little half breaks don't have supporting runners on the shoulder like the usually do. The pull back passes aren't releasing men through the hole with SA's scramble defence catching up to them. Fine margins, all of it built on forward pressure.

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Post by miaow on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:14 am

Genuine question: is Ben Spencer coming on? Is he trusted?

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Post by ebop on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:15 am

Oh dear, smashed em
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Post by Taylorman on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:15 am

Scrum dominance as well now. Things are looking ominous.

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Post by alfie on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:15 am

SA dominating the scrums and that's producing penalties ... Unless England can produce something soon this is gone...

Long way to go yet though.


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Post by RDW on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:16 am

Long, long way back for England

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Post by BigGee on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:16 am

Changing props seem not to have weakened the Bok scrum!

Another penalty

15-6 SA

2 scores now, a bit of daylight

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:17 am

England getting smashed in the scrum.

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Post by miaow on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:17 am

Marler on for Mako. Too late to prevent the 3 points. Could sure it up though. More importantly, he adds power in the tight - more than Mako.

Well, here we go - another scrum and a chance to see where we are.

If SA get the penalty here England have to throw the bench on and just starting running it from everywhere. They're not staying in the game like Wales did last week, but they have more strike runners and more pace and wide threats. They can chance it if they need to.

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Post by No name Bertie on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:17 am

If SA win they will match NZ for three world cup triumphs. Also it would be 8 world cups for the SH and 1 for the NH.

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Post by miaow on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:17 am

Ooooohhhh! Marler held?!

Not sure about that. Tough decision. Resident props? Thoughts?

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:18 am

Can’t say it reminds me of the 07 final much, I felt England were just making up the numbers there. They have a genuine chance today and if they rediscover their try-scoring form soon then they’re right back in it. But if you don’t, you can still be pleased with the teams efforts in this tournament.

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Post by RDW on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:19 am

England desperately need territory here - any penalty in their half will be 3 points.

Any scrum will be a penalty!

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Post by Dirtydave on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:19 am

Only caught the first half, but it seems England were being dragged into a game they didn't want to play.

Wales and SA both wanted to negate each other, England seem unwilling to play that way, and the mistakes were costing them.

Has the second half changed anything?

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Post by RDW on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:19 am

Ford off - called it!

Ford has been poor.

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Post by yappysnap on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:19 am

England are getting stitched up here. We finally go forward in the scrum and still penalised. This ref is out of his depth.

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Post by alfie on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:20 am

Slade on for Ford. Not his night...

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Post by BigGee on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:20 am

Ford gets hooked

Slade to 12, Farrell to FH

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Post by miaow on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:20 am

Yeah I thought so! Marler had him last time. Held him again here and Cole does the damage. Turning point perhaps.

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Post by BigGee on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:21 am

Better scrum for England

Farrell kicks it and brings it back to a score

15-9 SA

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:21 am

England finally get a penalty at the scrum.

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Post by RDW on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:22 am

Change in momentum?

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Post by No name Bertie on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:22 am

It is looking like a comfortable victory for SA.

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Post by alfie on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:22 am

Back within six.

But you get the feeling they have to sore a try at some point to win this : they won't catch 'em with penalties...

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:23 am

kick this too

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Post by Old Man on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:23 am

Pollard falling over his own feet

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Post by miaow on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:23 am

Could be the turning point!

A slip is the difference between a break down field and England having a shot at goal. Good turnover.

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Post by RDW on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:25 am

Big miss

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Post by miaow on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:25 am

Needed that. Really needed that. There's a danger of the clock being against England. The game is going so quickly - only 25 mins to go.


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Post by Taylorman on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:25 am

Oh dear, pressure kicks now?

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Post by BigGee on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:25 am

Farrell lines up again

Pushes this one past the post

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Post by alfie on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:25 am

Think I'd have gone for the corner then...

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Post by Engine#4 on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:25 am

No release from Curry there

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Post by miaow on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:26 am

Drop goal? Think they might have been going for it, but advantage anyway and a gimme 3 points on the 22 bang in front.

The kick will take it to a 9 point lead. England need to start changing it. Joseph on.

Spencer!?


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Post by Pal Joey on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:26 am

The driving wedge from SA... love it!
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Post by yappysnap on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:27 am

This is exactly the kind of game for Mike Brown at 15. Daly showing why.

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Post by BigGee on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:27 am

Poor clearance from Daley which leads to a kickable penalty

18-9 SA

back out to 2 scores

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:28 am

So it’s looking like du Toit for POTY right?

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