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Post by Rugby Fan on Tue 29 Oct 2019, 4:34 pm

Ben Ryan's Rugby X has kicked off today.

Here's an example of a one-on-one decider during the England v Barbarians match

https://twitter.com/Barbarian_FC/status/1189208633835479046

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Post by miaow on Tue 29 Oct 2019, 4:54 pm

Not for me, personally.

The Rugby League 9s looks better tbh. Maybe watching the actual gameplay would sway me, but THAT ^^^ looks like a gimmick and a really, really bad way to finish a game. 2 v 2 would be more interesting.

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Post by miaow on Tue 29 Oct 2019, 5:10 pm

Oh wait, it's 5 a side!?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/no-helmets-required/2019/oct/25/ben-ryan-indoor-rugby-x-olympic-gold-fiji?CMP=twt_a-sport_b-gdnausport_c-au_g-3

Na, definitely don't think this will take off as a commercial venture. An absolutely FANTASTIC idea to get kids, communities, whatever playing this - get it in the curriculum. But as a commercial sport where you need money to fund it, and where the aim is, what...bums on seats?

Na, surely the idea is fewer bums on seats and more activity? Are you trying to get people watching rugby or playing it? Maybe it might work in the odd inner city where 15s is basically impossible, but...not sure.

10s seems a more feasible way of getting the best of both worlds from 15s and 7s.

In all honesty, all you have to do in this country is encourage proper tag rugby - not the hip tackles, ribbon kind of tag rugby - but proper 'touched and youre tackled' tag rugby that is played all over the world (And SH) as a warm up, in schools etc. THAT'S how to develop support lines, execution of space, running, balance, passing etc.

I'm just not quite sure what Rugby X is...other than a short lived commercial 'thing'?

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Post by BamBam on Tue 29 Oct 2019, 9:21 pm

It's surprisingly entertaining to watch. Not proper rugby obviously, but just been watching bits of it and there are some great little bits of play

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Post by BamBam on Tue 29 Oct 2019, 9:45 pm

Controversial winning try in the last play of the game and 60 seconds later the referee is pitch side with Ugo Monye explaining his decision Laugh

Imagine that in the real game

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Post by miaow on Tue 29 Oct 2019, 10:08 pm

Not that hard to imagine, Monye is basically everywhere these days.

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Post by Cyril on Tue 29 Oct 2019, 10:26 pm

The obvious next step is Haskell interviewing players actually in play, ‘lads, lads, lads’ etc.

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Post by westisbest on Tue 29 Oct 2019, 10:54 pm

Watched this earlier. Good to see Ireland getting to the men’s final. Losing out though to Argentina.

It’s ok, although I much prefer 7’s.

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Post by Cyril on Tue 29 Oct 2019, 11:15 pm

How and where can one watch this witchcraft?

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Post by BamBam on Tue 29 Oct 2019, 11:20 pm

It was just on ITV4, might be on some sort of catch up

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Post by Cyril on Tue 29 Oct 2019, 11:26 pm

Cheers, Bam Smile

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Post by Rinsure on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 7:45 am

Watched the first live game - found it boring. It was basically basketball in terms of approach and speed, with little actual contest for the ball. Turnovers from mistakes, rather than skill.

Some great athleticism, and fine athletes, but not for me.

Although, there's the possibility for a great drinking game - everytime someone on voiceover or commentary says "it's rugby... accelerated" you have to chin your drink.

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Post by SecretFly on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 11:21 am

Nah. I'll wait until Rugby Y.

Y oh Y oh Y?

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Post by lostinwales on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 12:54 pm

SecretFly wrote:Nah.  I'll wait until Rugby Y.

Y oh Y oh Y?

zzzzz

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 1:16 pm

It was great, how is it not proper rugby?

You run, catch, pass, kick, tackle, ruck, etc etc........in fact it has all the skill sets for the xv a side game.

Great for schools and has potential for local teams who struggle with numbers to take it up and set up mini leagues etc.
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Post by miaow on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 2:13 pm

You can't kick.

It doesn't create contest or prepare you for any of the contact by the looks of things either.

Rugby 10s (why call it Rugby X...Rugby V, surely) would be the best commercial and long term alternative to XV or 7s. Rugby League 9s got the dynamic right - bonus point for scoring between the sticks, it's fast, it's progressive, but it's not just people getting burnt on the outside like 7s. People would both play and watch Rugby 10s.

Listening to Ben Ryan talk and he falls in to the trap many people do in modern Britain - get far too London centric. It's as if he's specifically trying to target black, working class Londoners in what he says, and sees Kyle Sinckler as his posterboy for what the sport should be. Sinckler won a sport scholarship to Epsom...think some honesty is needed at times. London is not indicative of the whole country, and yes, maybe this should be something London specific...but don't then forget the rest of the country. Or pretend what works in London should work outside, and it's the failingof the provinces if it doesn't.

There is a whole country - a whole Union - outside London.

This seems like a commercial venture and that's about it, unfortunately. The only people I know who went - posting all the light shows on social media - work in sports media. I know no one who went of their own volition.

If you want to get kids enjoying the basics of running rugby, have them play touch.



But guess what? British bulldogs - that old schoolyard classic - is banned. Has society/culture got better in that time? Were kids stabbing each other in the 80s and even the 90s and before?

The reality is Britain is an old, crumbling empire and its population isn't exactly geared towards sporting excellence. If you get kids playing volleyball, basketball, netball, rugby league - these all help rugby. But the drop off rate - and the numbers who'd rather play Xbox - are staggering.

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Post by miaow on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 2:16 pm

The skills here are really, really poor. Let's be honest. All tries are basically just pace on the outside or an overlap.



There's nothing wrong with proper touch rugby.

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Post by 123456789. on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 2:53 pm

Not sure what void it fills that 7s doesn't. As a development game for backs and back rows in training perhaps.However I do hope it takes off. I personally won't be watching it but it won't do any harm and if it gets people playing and watching the game that weren't involved previously then that's a good thing.

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 3:10 pm

It is played indoor, is on a half size pitch thus more places it can be held. Was not a great fan when the idea was floated but having spoken to people who have gone this has attracted the kind of people who do not go to normal rugby.

It is also something that could be played in schools, sportshalls - in fact anywhere that 5 as side football is played.

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Post by miaow on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 3:19 pm

You say it can be played indoors - how.

I've played rugby and football on the new astro pitches. The rubber crumbs like Saracens and Cardiff have. They are a f'ing nightmare, they are horrible. They hurt to run on, they hurt to scrape on - I grew up playing football on those sand-based astro turf pitches in the 90s, where any sort of slip was an instant skin-ripper, and these really aren't that much better.

So what surface is going to be used for an indoor pitch where contact is allowed? I really, really cannot see a single sports hall playing contact, tackle and ruck rugby, even if it's 5 a side.

That is literally the reason touch rugby was invented. Having a pitch like this is far too specialist to be put in any hall, let alone less affluent ones, where the target market of this seems to be. And are you then going to play it outside? On rubber crumb pitches? Instead of 5 a side? No chance, I just cannot see kids wanting to play that when it f'ing hurts so much more than playing on grass.

But who knows.

It feels lazy and an excuse to accept the removal of green spaces and playing pitches in modern Britain.

Kids should learn tackling by going out and playing the game down a local park, get used to self policing and not needing their hands held every step of the way. No safe guarding, no injury insurance. You should then teach the basics of skills and touch rugby with adults where those things do exist to help kids, as well as proper rugby clubs encouraging the more physical and contact side of the game.

But none of the social and cultural conditions are there to do so.

So this is seen as the only solution.

I 'get' it - and I get why Ben Ryan wants to go after the inner cities - but...as I said...very London centric and naive to some of the fundamentals of why rugby isn't played already. One of the main issues with rugby is that it is harder to 'start' than a football kickabout. Touch rugby solves that.

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 3:21 pm

miaow wrote:You say it can be played indoors - how.

Well they seem to have managed it on those videos you posted. This tournament was at the O2

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 3:22 pm

I cannot see it taking off, but hell I am not going to criticise them for actually having the balls to try something.

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Post by miaow on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 3:25 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
miaow wrote:You say it can be played indoors - how.

Well they seem to have managed it on those videos you posted. This tournament was at the O2

LondonTiger wrote:It is also something that could be played in schools, sportshalls - in fact anywhere that 5 as side football is played.

Again, how?

As I said, no issue with the desire to turn this in to (another...) commercial 'thing' that runs for a while and then dies out.

But if it's really about kids and participation, it's ill conceived and half hearted and seems to have had to sell too much to the corporate world to get off the ground for that actually to translate in to rugby for the masses.

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 3:31 pm

I have played, coached and reffed similar things indoors.

The way touch rugby is run it seems there is just as much contact in that.

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Post by miaow on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 3:36 pm

Not what I've played - it certainly wasn't like full on tackling and rucking. I played basketball on a new build 'spongy' floored hall for years - and on the more traditional old school lamenated wooden halls - and no way would would I want to play full contact rugby on that even if it's designed to hurt less when you fall over. Games would last all of 3 minutes until someone popped a knee or got knocked out - it happened enough times on a muddy field to know that kids get hurt easily.

Proper touch rugby - and not the two hands on hips nonsense that is dangerous and doesn't actually promote good tackling technique - includes barely than much more contact than basketball.

I'm amazed you think this Rugby X - with full contact and rucking - is in the same league tbh.

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 3:40 pm

miaow wrote:You can't kick.

Yes you can kick, I take it you didn't watch it then. laughing
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Post by Irish Londoner on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 3:46 pm

Rinsure wrote:Watched the first live game - found it boring. It was basically basketball in terms of approach and speed, with little actual contest for the ball. Turnovers from mistakes, rather than skill.

Some great athleticism, and fine athletes, but not for me.

Although, there's the possibility for a great drinking game - everytime someone on voiceover or commentary says "it's rugby... accelerated" you have to chin your drink.

I think this is where it's potential is a night out and few drinks at a time of the year when it's cold and dark. Maybe as a winter circuit for the sevens professionals.

I don't see it taking off though as most indoor arenas won't have suitable flooring to allow contact and if it's outside on the grass then you might as well play "proper" rugby.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 3:47 pm

LondonTiger wrote:I cannot see it taking off, but hell I am not going to criticise them for actually having the balls to try something.
That's where I am too.

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Post by miaow on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 3:48 pm

Not yet, just highlights, but as one of the rules and selling points was 'no kicks' it seems odd they'd allow kicking in certain situations.

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Post by miaow on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 3:55 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:I cannot see it taking off, but hell I am not going to criticise them for actually having the balls to try something.
That's where I am too.

Alternatively, it's another flash in the pan project where some sponsors make some money, middle class punters eventually encroach and make it a more refined drinking opportunity - as mentioned above - and it all gets wrapped up in a few years' time.

Instead of developing something more thorough, more community based.

If there's a big curriculum or private investment plan to get kids playing this - fine. I just haven't heard anything about that yet. It's almost as if it's hoping it will get people in on the back of them watching this and really wanting to play it. I'm not sure.

The whole vibe seems like it's going for this sort of thing:



Which is playing on the intersection of 5 a side/court based football on astro turf, Fifa, and kickabout football.

This feels like the wrong way around to promote this sort of spectacle.

But I agree, too much cynicism is bad - I just wish there was more of a 'wider' thought out concept. The idea that this is going in to the prison population seems interesting...maybe it will work. I just see no reason why you can't re-brand/promote touch rugby tbh.

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Post by The Oracle on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 5:34 pm

Yes there was definitely kicking. In fact, that’s all England seemed to do against Argentina as they couldn’t break their defence. Grabbers and chips rather than Garry Owens obviously.

And yes, it was definitely indoors yesterday. Can be played in and outside though.
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Post by SecretFly on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 9:50 pm

The Oracle wrote:

And yes, it was definitely indoors yesterday.

How?

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Post by The Oracle on Wed 30 Oct 2019, 10:24 pm

SecretFly wrote:
The Oracle wrote:

And yes, it was definitely indoors yesterday.

How?

.....now, brown cow.

Oh damn, I’m stuck in that tricky scenario where I’m not sure if you’re being serious or not! Do I respond on a witty or serious way?!

I’ll go with serious:

It’s basically like a 5 a side pitch. So indoors and surrounded by the crowd in tiered seats. A bit like that series Gladiators. “Gladiators, you will go on my first whistle”! Same flashing lights too.

Edit: hang on, perhaps you were having a cheeky poke at ‘how’ from earlier? Wink
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Post by SecretFly on Thu 31 Oct 2019, 8:21 am

The Oracle wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
The Oracle wrote:

And yes, it was definitely indoors yesterday.

How?

.....now, brown cow.

Oh damn, I’m stuck in that tricky scenario where I’m not sure if you’re being serious or not! Do I respond on a witty or serious way?!

I’ll go with serious:

It’s basically like a 5 a side pitch. So indoors and surrounded by the crowd in tiered seats. A bit like that series Gladiators. “Gladiators, you will go on my first whistle”! Same flashing lights too.

Edit: hang on, perhaps you were having a cheeky poke at ‘how’ from earlier? Wink

............. thumbsup

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 31 Oct 2019, 8:27 am

....oh Jesus, just after reading the Gladiators bit vomit

What a piece of Schidt that show was.  Worse than Lost's Rugby Z, and I should know coz I lost a lot of money promoting that crap - even managed to get The Bull Hayes out of retirement for a week.  But him and Vickery were just f**king past it.  I'll be suing their agents who told me they both were maintaining game readiness for years.

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