RWC Final 2019 - Match Thread - ENGLAND v SOUTH AFRICA - Spill Over/Match Reaction Thread

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Post by miaow on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:29 am

First topic message reminder :

other one's getting full

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Post by Old Man on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 1:31 pm

Soul requem how about you give me a clue so I know what you are talking about?

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Post by miaow on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 4:42 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Big wrote:
I really couldn't give a hoot about players removing the medals.  2nd place in a world cup is pretty meaningless, and nobody is going to want to celebrate losing, especially in the immediate aftermath.

So refuse to walk up to the podium altogether.

But if you bother to walk up and have a silver medal placed around your neck....well, they're not that heavy; why not just let them linger there for 15 or 20 minutes until the ceremony is over?

But for some the symbolism of whipping them off is more important to be 'seen'.  Maybe we should tell them about how meaningless the gesture is.  We don't care how unwilling to accept the concept of defeat is in them.  We know who won and we know who didn't.  The medal removing ceremony doesn't change the fact.

People get it wrong too though.  They blame England for lack of respect etc.... It wasn't England.  It was certain players that eventually removed them, and one coach/official that I witnessed removing the medal the moment he got it.  I saw other players strolling around, comfortable with them still around their necks.
And look at Eddie - ambitious, single minded Eddie - look at how he did it.  All smiles, accepted his medal... all smiles.  Maybe he knows more about their worth than some of the players.

Yep. THat's it. It feels as much part of the performance now as the pre match antics as well. Too forced, too deliberate, too self aware of the audience.

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Post by miaow on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 4:46 pm

Also, given that they all get replacement medals - a la SBW's media-friendly act (wait for the camera, wait for the camera...ok here you go, kid) - why not hand them out to the crowd or whatever? Safe in the knowledge you'll get another one...

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Post by quinsforever on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 9:04 pm

storm in a freaking teacup about the medals. only the professionally offended, or the english haters, are piping up.

what if a winner took his medal off and stuck it in his pocket?

who gives a Poopie? players are upset. they can do whatever they want with their medals.

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Post by Taylorman on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 9:25 pm

Overblown yes, did think he should have accepted it with more respect in front of the designate, and remove it later. Lot of emotion going on.

And who's to say they didn't think they 'deserved' the silver rather than didnt want it. If they viewed it as not deserving it as a mark of their country's respect then that's understandable as well. Even though the country is probably proud of their efforts anyway...or at least should be.

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Post by quinsforever on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 9:29 pm

Taylorman wrote:Overblown yes, did think he should have accepted it with more respect in front of the designate, and remove it later. Lot of emotion going on.

And who's to say they didn't think they 'deserved' the silver rather than didnt want it. If they viewed it as not deserving it as a mark of their country's respect then that's understandable as well. Even though the country is probably proud of their efforts anyway...or at least should be.
yes lots of emotion.

and who would really want to see that removed from sporting contests and their aftermath? no-one.

so again, only the professionally offended and the english-haters are piping up.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 10:03 pm

quinsforever wrote:

yes, lots of emotion.

and who would really want to see that removed from sporting contests and their aftermath? no-one.


Ahem.... the professionally offended and regular England haters would disagree and be quite offended by the supposition!

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Post by miaow on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 8:22 am

Before and during the game, I really didn't care who won this game. But in hindsight, I'm glad it was SA. Tough for the fans ofc - and the genuine ones on here - but the atmosphere and the hubris would be unbearable. The media would go apepoo over the idea of 'best in the world' and 'world class'. EJ would be a genius. It's just...all the boom and bust parts of the media, hero one week, villain the next...all of that coming to a head and being the constant reference point for the next 4 years. "Why have England dropped off after smashing the RWC in Japan?" "What's happened to the best team in the world?" "Do we need to bring Joe Marler back from retirement again?"

It's now almost the calm after a storm - just gettng on with things again, like the domestic game, dealing with things like Saracens' cheating of the salary cap. How different that would be against the backdrop of a RWC wn.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 9:08 am

Medias far too busy talking about how Pivac is never going to live up to Gatlands record of joint 3rd place finishes for that Miaow

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Post by Hoonercat on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 9:29 am

Old Man wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Their medals to treat how they wish. Sorry they didn't celebrate losing to make the professionally offended happy.

It is about public behaviour though. Setting example for kids.

Such as losing isn't acceptable.
'It's not the winning that counts, but the taking part'. 'Never mind, they gave it a good go' etc etc. This is the attitude that English sport has been derided for in the past, 'you don't have a winning mentality because you accept second best too readily'. And yet, when the players send a different message, one that says they don't accept second best, they're derided for it Erm

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 9:44 am

miaow wrote:Also, given that they all get replacement medals - a la SBW's media-friendly act (wait for the camera, wait for the camera...ok here you go, kid) - why not hand them out to the crowd or whatever? Safe in the knowledge you'll get another one...


To be fair Sinckler would've become a national hero if he'd found someone in a Wales shirt to hand it to.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 10:16 am

bluestonevedder wrote:Can we just highlight the point that not every England player took their medal off? All this guff in the media about it and suddenly people are talking about it like it was some planned move by the England team and how it makes them a terrible group of people, showing a complete lack of magnanimity, blah blah blah. Total rubbish. Yes, some players took them off or refused to wear them, but for god sake don't tarnish the entire team by the actions of the few. Being gracious in defeat extends beyond just wearing the silver medal. Shaking hands with the victors and  applauding your supporters are far more reflective of a gracious loser. 

South Africa win the world cup with an absolutely outstanding performance that extends far beyond the rugby pitch, and the media/some clowns on social media are focusing on bashing England using whatever little detail they can extrapolate to support their idea that England are the epitome of arrogance. What a sad time to be alive!

I agree. Its been blown up out of all proportion.

The only people who give a toss about this are those who just like to bash people for any reason they can find.

I saw quite a lot of anti-England sentiment in the build-up to the semi and the final and now all the "haters" have a rather feeble excuse to bash some more. Really sad. Rolling Eyes
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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 11:56 am

Its a loser Medal at the end of the day, some players may regret giving it away in later life when their kids or grandchildren ask to see it, some will never give it another thought. Its their medal so who cares what they did with it?
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Post by miaow on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 5:00 pm

Hoonercat wrote:
Old Man wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Their medals to treat how they wish. Sorry they didn't celebrate losing to make the professionally offended happy.

It is about public behaviour though. Setting example for kids.

Such as losing isn't acceptable.
'It's not the winning that counts, but the taking part'. 'Never mind, they gave it a good go' etc etc. This is the attitude that English sport has been derided for in the past, 'you don't have a winning mentality because you accept second best too readily'. And yet, when the players send a different message, one that says they don't accept second best, they're derided for it Erm

As I said earlier - show that on the field. Show it with every last drop that you have. Not as a petulant afterthought after the game in a demonstration of how un-loserish you are...when you've just lost by 20 points.

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Post by miaow on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 5:01 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Medias far too busy talking about how Pivac is never going to live up to Gatlands record of joint 3rd place finishes for that Miaow

I think it's more the Grand Slams and Lions tours they're thinking of there, goose

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