Congratulations South Africa

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Post by LondonTiger on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 10:48 am

First topic message reminder :

Better team won.

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Post by miaow on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 3:17 pm

This is a better listen from an Irish perspective. Tbh that other panel was just a bunch of blowhards - sort of journalists and Quinlan, who is prone to talking balls.

https://youtu.be/L6_ldVehbkQ?t=1128

Flannery's much more interesting to listen to. Much more switched on.

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Post by eirebilly on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 3:22 pm

As a neutral, I do feel that SA were probably more emotionally prepared for the occasion than England were. I would not say England choked but they did seem overwhelmed with the intensity of SA, that intensity had not been shown by SA the whole tournament.

England can be proud of their team. To reach a final in the way they did was outstanding and they have unearthed some magnificent young talent that will benefit them for years to come (Underhill and Curry to name but 2).



SA fans can be very proud of what they achieved, it was a very good victory.
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Post by Old Man on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 3:44 pm

Thanks Eirebilly, Yes the physicality and line speed pressured England into mistakes and poor decisions.

South Africa contrary to popular opinion also had some nice attack in the first half which unfortunately didn’t pan out, the game is basic, but with physicality like that you will eventually find opportunities out wide, which eventually came in the last quarter.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 3:47 pm

I agree Eire

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Post by rodders on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 4:06 pm

A belated well done to the boks, I did think they had a good chance if they could suck England into an arm wrestle and that for England to win they probably needed a blistering start to force the boks into playing catch up.

Despite many writing SA off, I felt it would be much closer and that England would probably struggle to hit the same heights they did against NZ, whereas the boks probably had a bit more in the tank.

That said the complete dominance SA had surprised me, they were just so physical and totally suffocated an English side who pretty much blew away everyone they've faces this season bar Wales, with power and pace.

Even without the two tries, which were exceptional, they were by far the better side.

Amazing how in every RWC year that proceeds a Lions tour the springboks come to life...
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Post by Taylorman on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 9:31 pm

True...every 12 years, Boks win the title...(glad theyre leaving the next two for others then) thumbsup

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Post by Taylorman on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 9:46 pm

miaow wrote: The idea Italy has more say than NZ is insane.

No, Its missing the point completely.

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Post by protea438 on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 8:03 am

miaow wrote:This is a better listen from an Irish perspective. Tbh that other panel was just a bunch of blowhards - sort of journalists and Quinlan, who is prone to talking balls.

https://youtu.be/L6_ldVehbkQ?t=1128

Flannery's much more interesting to listen to. Much more switched on.

Yeah I enjoyed the video

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Post by protea438 on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 8:07 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
Old Man wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
Old Man wrote:
protea438 wrote:Good grief the Boks cant catch a break, and this is suppose to be professional



Cheers chaps I am just going to shoot up and go murder some one

Yeah, they are really trying to convince themselves more than anything else, I wouldn’t pay much attention to it.

If they want to believe South Africa plays negatively and creates nothing, then that is fine.

What specifically is the issue with the video?

Listen to it, then you tell me.

No it doesnt work like that. If you are upset about something then say why. Not a mind reader.

Basically accusing SA Rugby as drug cheats and everyones in SA are violent criminals.

I suppose from twittards its kind of acceptable, but that show was suppose to be professional, they have sponsors and quality guests

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Post by Old Man on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 11:03 am

Some might enjoy this, Siya Kolisi and his wife interview

Siya Kolisi motivational speech

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 11:51 am

What the OfftheBall crowd are is a bunch of youngish sports addicts masquerading as 'journalists' who have mostly grown up being educated by a particular sports media that service English Premiership football.  Controversy, drama, nothing is ever half full, a team wins by 7 goals and the coach should be disappointed that his over paid midfielder general didn't get an 8th in the last minute when a superb pass gift wrapped a cert for him.
These people do nothing else except watch sport, read about sport, talk about sport all day, every day and therefore it's obvious that they try to pretend a more diverse personality by dragging politics and sociology in where they can.

Yet I have no problem with them talking drugs or violence in the context of SA.  News is news and these subjects have been discussed by more than OTB addicts.  
My problem continues to be that the same people do readily ignore signs, signals, hints and sniffles of potential drug taking in other teams.
So in this WC I've heard 'drug' suspicions uttered about two sides only in this WC.  SA was one and Russia was the other.  The SA one was informed by the recent case involving an individual player and now a PIC that shows SA players without their shirts on.
What were we meant to be looking at when we viewed that picture?  All I saw was professionally toned athletes who are professional rugby players who visit the gym at lot because their work demands it.  How many rugby players without their tops on have these people seen over the decades?  Not many by the tone of the oohs and aahs from the media when that now bloody infamous pic was first shown.  
But even ignoring those visual clues.... where is the suspicion about French rugby that has been hounded by quite prominent accusations through the last number of years.  Why not mention suspicions of them when they play?  What about super speed teams?  Any suspicions directed at Japan?  What about the suspicions that might be in the air about other teams that might have some big fat men who seem to have endless energy through 80 minutes of high tempo games?

Nope.  Never any queries down those avenues.  Let's choose SA - coz they isn't skilled enough to be good enough unless questions are asked about how they do it.  And let's talk Russia, coz they is bad people who keep voting Putin back into office.

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Post by stub on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 3:25 pm

Congratulations to South Africa - well deserved winners.

For a few minutes I hoped that England could come back but SA quickly snuffed out any flicker of resistance.

A fitting conclusion to a great festival of rugby.

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Post by miaow on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 4:56 pm

Fly's spot on there. The assessment about the fake journos who run that channel/company/org and how they got to their particular perspective is spot on. Derivative.

I hate the little ginger with a passion.

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Post by protea438 on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 4:28 pm

I suppose it was expected, but still sad, although one cant go on forever

Cape Town - Rugby World Cup-winning Springbok legend Tendai ‘Beast’ Mtawarira has announced his retirement from international rugby.

https://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyWorldCup2019/legendary-springbok-beast-retires-at-the-top-20191106

Thanks Beasts

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Post by bluestonevedder on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 4:56 pm

protea438 wrote:I suppose it was expected, but still sad, although one cant go on forever

Cape Town - Rugby World Cup-winning Springbok legend Tendai ‘Beast’ Mtawarira has announced his retirement from international rugby.

https://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyWorldCup2019/legendary-springbok-beast-retires-at-the-top-20191106

Thanks Beasts

Plural...? There were TWO of them?! That's how he was able to destroy Cole in the scrum- Rassie kept swapping them out so they were fresh!

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Post by miaow on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 5:12 pm

Weird - just realised that Beast really bookended his test career by hammering an English tighthead in the scrum.

Vickery in 09, and now Cole in 2019.

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Post by Taylorman on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 7:12 pm

protea438 wrote:I suppose it was expected, but still sad, although one cant go on forever

Cape Town - Rugby World Cup-winning Springbok legend Tendai ‘Beast’ Mtawarira has announced his retirement from international rugby.

https://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyWorldCup2019/legendary-springbok-beast-retires-at-the-top-20191106

Thanks Beasts

Yeah a big fan of the Beast, great way to sign off, one of South Africa's greats. Still remember the deep 'grooooowl' of the crowd whenever he took the ball up over the years. We used to do it when he played here as well. thumbsup

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Post by Old Man on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 8:04 pm

Was just listening to Rassie talking about Beast, he says Beast has always been one of the quiet ones, but when he spoke everyone listened.

However he says this year Beast became more vocal , became a leader and he reckons beast is a wonderful human being, and the ultimate professional.

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Post by Taylorman on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 8:23 pm

True, a 'beast' of a man! thumbsup

One of the rare 'consistencies' in SA rugby was to have the Beast anchor the scrum and motivate the side over what was a very inconsistent period of SA rugby, culminating in the ultimate achievement.

Will go down as one of the greats.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 10:02 pm

I think the ginger guy is better now myself

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 2:30 pm

Pretty much what you would expect from Neil Francis:

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/former-ireland-lock-suggests-asterix-beside-springboks-rwc-win-steroids

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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 2:36 pm

Guys in high school taking steroids, as young as 13? That’s crazy. I personally only knew of one person in high school taking steroids when I was there, in the whole of Newport! 10% of 12,000 school boys in Natal doing it as far as we know. Not that I agree that this should asterix their national teams World Cup win though.

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Post by Old Man on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 3:44 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Pretty much what you would expect from Neil Francis:

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/former-ireland-lock-suggests-asterix-beside-springboks-rwc-win-steroids

I hope SARU takes him on regarding the issue, they should sue the shyte out of him, because Aphiwe Diyanti used doesn’t mean everyone is using.

Half thedamn starters play rugby in Europe, don’t they get tested?

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 3:56 pm

Old Man wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Pretty much what you would expect from Neil Francis:

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/former-ireland-lock-suggests-asterix-beside-springboks-rwc-win-steroids

I hope SARU takes him on regarding the issue, they should sue the shyte out of him, because Aphiwe Diyanti used doesn’t mean everyone is using.

Half thedamn starters play rugby in Europe, don’t they get tested?

ah well, um......

Perhaps best not to mention issues within Top14.


Now South Africa do appear to have an issue with drugs at High School Level, as seen in the testing during Craven Week in 2018, but they also probably test more kids now so they will catch more. There were various raids on french pharmacies and hushed up allegations of systemic misuse. Within GB rugby (mainly amateur and semi pro) is the biggest single contributor (in both forms) to the number of athletes banned for drug use. this affects all 3 constituent countries.

Not sure what Ireland does.


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Post by Old Man on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 4:28 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Old Man wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Pretty much what you would expect from Neil Francis:

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/former-ireland-lock-suggests-asterix-beside-springboks-rwc-win-steroids

I hope SARU takes him on regarding the issue, they should sue the shyte out of him, because Aphiwe Diyanti used doesn’t mean everyone is using.

Half thedamn starters play rugby in Europe, don’t they get tested?

ah well, um......

Perhaps best not to mention issues within Top14.


Now South Africa do appear to have an issue with drugs at High School Level, as seen in the testing during Craven Week in 2018, but they also probably test more kids now so they will catch more. There were various raids on french pharmacies and hushed up allegations of systemic misuse. Within GB rugby (mainly amateur and semi pro) is the biggest single contributor (in both forms) to the number of athletes banned for drug use. this affects all 3 constituent countries.

Not sure what Ireland does.


Well if it is not only a South African issue, why does he single SA out then?

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Post by Scottrf on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 4:35 pm

Old Man wrote:Well if it is not only a South African issue, why does he single SA out then?

Because you won.

But also there's a few high profile issues.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 4:56 pm

And because he is a bitter ex player who does not feel he ever got the recognition they deserved.

If England had won it would have been asterisked because of the missing game.

Bitter and twisted pundits make bitter and twisted articles.

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Post by Old Man on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 5:12 pm

Sad

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Post by miaow on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 6:33 pm

I know for a fact steroid use isn't confined to SA for teenagers. If nothing else, you only need to look at the average height of players from 2000ish to now.

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 6:41 pm

Which steroids make players taller Miaow?

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Post by miaow on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 6:45 pm

Growth hormones? I'll admit my knowledge of the actual drugs is slim to none in terms of how they actually work, and there's no way I'd throw a player under the bus who I know took them (current test international), but there is use of at least some drug around the age of 14 to promote growth in both width and height being used by some in Britain.

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Post by Taylorman on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 7:55 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Which steroids make players taller Miaow?

Laugh

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Post by whocares on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 8:10 pm

Anabolic Steroids (mimic the effect of testosterone) and Synthetic Human Growth Hormones (more recent) are two different things although both being popular within the bodybuilding family. HGH is the one that causes bone growth and the Neanderthal men look that you sometimes see amongst some rugby players (big jaw, hands etc). Appreciate that some it’s due to natural heavy training and/or genes but having witnessed first hand some young blokes changing way too much in less than a year I am pretty sure it is (or was?) a problem here as well. Also more difficult to detect.

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Post by miaow on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 9:36 pm

Thanks whocares. I've seen the same thing myself, as I said.

There you go, lads.

" cunning " etc.

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Post by Cyril on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 10:32 pm

This is the same Neil Francis who said that homosexuals don’t like sport? He’s a shock journo who likes to be controversial.

Having said that, those stats for SA youth are horrifying, if true. Anyone who encourages or facilitates any kind of programme like that for minors needs the full punishment of law laid at their door. Regardless of the ‘unfairness’ in sport aspect this is a ticking time bomb for the health of these players.

I don’t think anyone (except Francis) is asking for questions to be raised about SA’s RWC win, but this is a major issue and needs to be addressed (in SA and elsewhere). If the figures in the report are to be believed, there are a lot of young players gambling with their long-term health.

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Post by miaow on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 7:21 am

The lesbians I know are loving the rise of womens football team so not sure what he's on about there...

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 8:51 am

Absolutely agree Cyril. Theres a lot of misunderstanding and misinformation about banned performance enhancing drugs around but the bottom line is if young kids are taking unregulated doses of HGH or anabolics bought from black market sources with little guarantee of quality (or even what it is) theres a huge amount of risk to health and an exposure to criminal elements which carries a whole different set of risks.

The number of failed tests at the high level pro game is very low, and a number of those have been for recreational drugs or accidental ingestion . Theres much less evidence that the elites are taking banned substances on an industrial scale, the irony being that these are the people who are most likely to be able to access and use them in a relatively safe manner. 

A bit like the salary cap breaches (and before that bloodgate) I suspect we will see a number of iterations of people calling the sport out on the issue before a sudden crack down and one person or team hung out to dry on it. This has been the pattern in other sports too.


Do think this discussion should maybe be split off from the congratulations SA thread though. They are worthy winner even if they are all drug cheats  Whistle

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