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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 8:17 am

So a few comments I've lifted from the guardian from Eddie Jones. Pretty much as you'd expect in terms of looking ahead to the next challenge.
“I tell you what happens to teams – they evolve,” Jones said. “Some guys will lose desire, some guys will lose fitness, some guys will get injuries and there’ll be young guys come through. So this team is finished now. There will be a new team made. We’ll make a new team for the Six Nations and that new team for the Six Nations will be the basis of going to the next World Cup.'

Apparently the team at the weekend is the youngest to appear in a WC final so there won't be 15 new guys coming in but clearly a few are coming to the end. Are there particular areas or players jones will be looking at?

For me this bunch stand a decent chance in and around the squad to get more caps soon. Genge, Painter, Willis, Dombrandt, Smith, spencer, Robson and a outside chance of Mullins at full back.

Guys that are all young enough to be around for years to come but all with great potential. Perhaps not as good/proven as some who will step back but hugely talented.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 9:04 am

Do you mean Malins?

I still suspect that Eddie will be looking to have a team to try and win a GS rather than looking too far ahead. Cole has probably played his last test and I doubt Youngs will survive beyond the next 6Ns. FB is still an issue, especially as Sarries have no intention (it seems) of playing Daly in the back 3. Marler is perhaps likely to retire again, Heinz I doubt will feature and you have toi wonder about the guys barely used such as Launchbury, Francis & McConnochie.




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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 9:15 am

I did, as in max. Blaming a heavy cold and early morning on that. Hes also no where near starting at full back for saracens however I think he would be the solution there. Damn saracens for developing too much talent and the players for living on an pittance there.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 9:21 am

Interestingly Gloucester, Bristol and Exeter are rumoured to be interested in Malins as his contract is up at the end of the season and his initial offer from Sarries was no increase. However they have since made a revised salary offer.

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Post by nlpnlp on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 2:08 pm

In the forwards I think there are 2 or 3 positions that need addressing.  With the injury record that he has had, Mako has to have a few questions marks, plus as has been said Marler is presumably likely to retire again.  Dan Cole has been a great servant, but his time looks to be up.  the fact Jones didn't take a third tighthead indicates he doesn't have a lot of faith in Williams and other more experienced players.  In Genge and Sinkler we have 2 'young' props who will be around for some time, but as we saw in the final you have to have some strength in depth in every position.  The England u20s side seem to have had some powerful props over the last couple of years - Heyes, Kenny, Painter, etc - so hopefully it is a case of bringing them through.

The other area is at 8 where Billy hasn't been a significant force for a couple of years.  Dombrandt was someone a lot of people wanted to go to the world cup.  With 4 years until the next finals, hopefully we won't see fill in selections like Wilson at 8, but specialists who have something positive to offer.

Considering the number of caps they have both accumulated, Youngs and Care never convinced consistently at 9.  Jones dodged the issue of putting faith in a young up and coming player preferring the older experienced player - Wigglesworth and Heinz.  Whilst Youngs is only 30, I think Jones needs to get at least a couple of young scrumhalfs in.  You would have liked Spencer and Robson at their age to have 20 to 30 caps, but they are nowhere near that.  I would like Jones to go for someone young who will be around for the next 4 or even 8 years and invest some time into them - maybe a Sam Maunder.

I don't think it helps England mix and matching at 10 between Ford and Farrell.  Joe Simmonds looks more of an all round player and would be worth having a look at.  I hope Manu stays fit and wants to continue playing for England rather than concentrating solely on club rugby. And finally full back - Daly hasn't convinced and seems likely to be back in the centres at Saracens.  I still think there is time for Nowell to move to fullback and it would possibly suit his strength over sheer speed skills.

Players will drop out due to injury or lack of desire to commit to another 4 year cycle, young players will appear from 'nowhere'.  At least we have a good platform to build on unlike the mess we were in 4 years ago. Apologies for any apparent Exeter Chiefs bias - they are not my club, but they seem to have got a lot of things right over the last few years bringing through some good English talent and tapping into experienced overseas players. This is reflected in wanting a certain Director Rugby to be the next England coach if or when Jones steps down.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 2:14 pm

Joe Simmonds impresses me more than Marcus Smith. Would like to see a bit more of Mitchell, the young Saints scrum half who is sadly currently injured but did well against Barbarians.

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Post by miaow on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 2:26 pm

Looks like the coaches are going to be refreshed as well.

Far from taking over as HC, Borthwick is apparently off to Leicester. I imagine Wisemantel won't be hanging around either. Who knows about John Mitchell, looks like the only survivor along with Eddie.

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Post by Chief on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 9:36 am

It’s going to be very interesting to see whether Jones circumvents the pecking order to bring through players he’s earmarked with great potential.

Will he go for Harry Randall,Joel Kopku Jack Willis, Ben Earl and Alex Dombrandt etc over more established Premiership players or will he try to bring them through slowly and continue picking Shields Wilson and Youngs etc


Getting those players into squads over the next four years may pay dividends if they have 20/30 caps each in 2023

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 9:57 am

My 25 and under team (ie guys who will be under 30 come the next RWC - obviously there are some guys who you would expect to still be in the team despite being in their 30s):

1) Ellis Genge (24)
2) Jack Singleton (23)
3) Joe Heyes (20)
4) Maro Itoje (25)
5) Nick Isiekwe (21)
6) Tom Curry (21)
7) Sam Underhill (23)
8) Zach Mercer (22)
9) Alex Mitchell (22)
10) Joe Simmonds (22)
11) Joe Cokanasiga (21)
12) Sam James (25)
13) Joe Marchant (23)
14) Ollie Thorley (23)
15) Anthony Watson (25)

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Post by Rugby Fan on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 10:49 am

nlpnlp wrote:...Considering the number of caps they have both accumulated, Youngs and Care never convinced consistently at 9...
On Brian Moore's podcast Kyran Bracken suggested that Care had been dropped because had had nagged Jones about getting more starts, which led Jones to see him as not being a team player. Bracken didn't indicate why he thought this, but said it as though it was something widely known. First I'd heard of it.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 1:06 pm

nlpnlp wrote:In the forwards I think there are 2 or 3 positions that need addressing.  With the injury record that he has had, Mako has to have a few questions marks, plus as has been said Marler is presumably likely to retire again.  Dan Cole has been a great servant, but his time looks to be up.  the fact Jones didn't take a third tighthead indicates he doesn't have a lot of faith in Williams and other more experienced players.  In Genge and Sinkler we have 2 'young' props who will be around for some time, but as we saw in the final you have to have some strength in depth in every position.  The England u20s side seem to have had some powerful props over the last couple of years - Heyes, Kenny, Painter, etc - so hopefully it is a case of bringing them through.

The other area is at 8 where Billy hasn't been a significant force for a couple of years.  Dombrandt was someone a lot of people wanted to go to the world cup.  With 4 years until the next finals, hopefully we won't see fill in selections like Wilson at 8, but specialists who have something positive to offer.

Considering the number of caps they have both accumulated, Youngs and Care never convinced consistently at 9.  Jones dodged the issue of putting faith in a young up and coming player preferring the older experienced player - Wigglesworth and Heinz.  Whilst Youngs is only 30, I think Jones needs to get at least a couple of young scrumhalfs in.  You would have liked Spencer and Robson at their age to have 20 to 30 caps, but they are nowhere near that.  I would like Jones to go for someone young who will be around for the next 4 or even 8 years and invest some time into them - maybe a Sam Maunder.

I don't think it helps England mix and matching at 10 between Ford and Farrell.  Joe Simmonds looks more of an all round player and would be worth having a look at.  I hope Manu stays fit and wants to continue playing for England rather than concentrating solely on club rugby. And finally full back - Daly hasn't convinced and seems likely to be back in the centres at Saracens.  I still think there is time for Nowell to move to fullback and it would possibly suit his strength over sheer speed skills.

Players will drop out due to injury or lack of desire to commit to another 4 year cycle, young players will appear from 'nowhere'.  At least we have a good platform to build on unlike the mess we were in 4 years ago.  Apologies for any apparent Exeter Chiefs bias - they are not my club, but they seem to have got a lot of things right over the last few years bringing through some good English talent and tapping into experienced overseas players.  This is reflected in wanting a certain Director Rugby to be the next England coach if or when Jones steps down.

But surely the squad number limits having full specialists, so you need top class players like Mark in there who can play multiple positions exceptionally well.


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Post by GeordieFalcon on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 1:21 pm

I see it as 4 stages

1.
Current stand out players still able to go to the next world cup.
Jamie George, Itoje, Farrell, Ford, Sinkler etc etc...the core of the squad really.

2.
Theres some cracking kids coming through that need to be watched and might be brought through - Ben Curry, Ted Hill, Dombrandt, Willis, Mallins, Smith, Saints have two cracking young 9's etc etc etc

3.
Some current younger members who havent made the grade yet and really need to put the marker down and make a position their own - Cockasaniga, Genge, Slade etc.

4.
Then there are some real outsiders...players not even on the radar but who could very well push themselves in to England thoughts (maybe not immediately)
Eg 19yo Josh Hodge at the falcons, i fully expect him to move to a top side..and he'll become an unreal full back. He can do the lot.

Likewise Adam Radwan is an unbelievable young wing...and is probably quicker than Johnny may. He'll be off to a better side aswell and could have the impact of a Kolbe etc.

it should be about slow evolution...not radical overhaulling....fix the probelm spots...ie Elliot Daly at 15 has failed in my eyes. Watson would be a WAY better full back option


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Post by Afro on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 1:30 pm

I would have thought Jack Maunder more likely than Sam Maunder
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Post by nlpnlp on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 1:33 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
nlpnlp wrote:In the forwards I think there are 2 or 3 positions that need addressing.  With the injury record that he has had, Mako has to have a few questions marks, plus as has been said Marler is presumably likely to retire again.  Dan Cole has been a great servant, but his time looks to be up.  the fact Jones didn't take a third tighthead indicates he doesn't have a lot of faith in Williams and other more experienced players.  In Genge and Sinkler we have 2 'young' props who will be around for some time, but as we saw in the final you have to have some strength in depth in every position.  The England u20s side seem to have had some powerful props over the last couple of years - Heyes, Kenny, Painter, etc - so hopefully it is a case of bringing them through.

The other area is at 8 where Billy hasn't been a significant force for a couple of years.  Dombrandt was someone a lot of people wanted to go to the world cup.  With 4 years until the next finals, hopefully we won't see fill in selections like Wilson at 8, but specialists who have something positive to offer.

Considering the number of caps they have both accumulated, Youngs and Care never convinced consistently at 9.  Jones dodged the issue of putting faith in a young up and coming player preferring the older experienced player - Wigglesworth and Heinz.  Whilst Youngs is only 30, I think Jones needs to get at least a couple of young scrumhalfs in.  You would have liked Spencer and Robson at their age to have 20 to 30 caps, but they are nowhere near that.  I would like Jones to go for someone young who will be around for the next 4 or even 8 years and invest some time into them - maybe a Sam Maunder.

I don't think it helps England mix and matching at 10 between Ford and Farrell.  Joe Simmonds looks more of an all round player and would be worth having a look at.  I hope Manu stays fit and wants to continue playing for England rather than concentrating solely on club rugby. And finally full back - Daly hasn't convinced and seems likely to be back in the centres at Saracens.  I still think there is time for Nowell to move to fullback and it would possibly suit his strength over sheer speed skills.

Players will drop out due to injury or lack of desire to commit to another 4 year cycle, young players will appear from 'nowhere'.  At least we have a good platform to build on unlike the mess we were in 4 years ago.  Apologies for any apparent Exeter Chiefs bias - they are not my club, but they seem to have got a lot of things right over the last few years bringing through some good English talent and tapping into experienced overseas players.  This is reflected in wanting a certain Director Rugby to be the next England coach if or when Jones steps down.

But surely the squad number limits having full specialists, so you need top class players like Mark in there who can play multiple positions exceptionally well.

I am not knocking Mark Wilson who I think is a good player. I just think England have missed out by not having a specialist 8 to turn to, when Billy has been fairly average and quite easily nullified over the last couple of years, plus has a poor injury record. I think Wilson is probably the best 6 we have, although we of course are currently using an openside at 6.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 1:46 pm

But the squad numbers limited how many specialists you can have...so you have to take certain positions where a player can cover more than one.

Regardless if its Mark or someone else. Jackson Wray for example who can play 6/7/8 for example would be taken.

Or you have to do that in the backs. Players who can cover 12/13/15 like Jack Nowell etc.

Incidently about Billy, he's had a lot of injuries and no real competition for that spot. i wonder if Dombrant etc can...and mayber Zac Mercer can step up his level.

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Post by miaow on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 5:04 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
nlpnlp wrote:...Considering the number of caps they have both accumulated, Youngs and Care never convinced consistently at 9...
On Brian Moore's podcast Kyran Bracken suggested that Care had been dropped because had had nagged Jones about getting more starts, which led Jones to see him as not being a team player. Bracken didn't indicate why he thought this, but said it as though it was something widely known. First I'd heard of it.

It's possible, but I also get the sense that that podcast is really like 'going back in time'. Brian Moore talking about scrummaging in the 80s as if it's still relevant. Lots of players who have long, long been retired, passing judgemnt from the outside, with not really too much clue. Good for the after dinner circuit, less so when it comes to hard hitting analysis.

Care was ultimately dropped because he wasn't very good. Personality issues probably came in to it, but the same happened with Brown, the same happened with T'eo. If they were good they would have gone. They weren't great players, at all. Care's level has always been the Premiership and when the pack is absolutely dominating in tests. He'd fall to pieces when England suffered with parity or worse. Even then, he was prone to doing so when the pack was on top. He wasn't good enough, simple.

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Post by miaow on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 5:07 pm

I'd also say that that was part of EJ's best aspects. The fact he was an outsider, repsected the good parts of English/British culture, but tossed out the bad.

Lancaster made Robshaw captain in part because he represented what English captains should be in the mind of Englishmen. EJ got rid of him because he realised he was a weak captain when you strip away the hierarchy and culture, which ultimately occurs when you step out on the field.

Brown, Alex Goode, Care, Robshaw - even Cipriani in a different way - they're all deeply flawed or just ordinary players. Sometimes you get the feeling people can't see the woods for the trees when they're too close to the situation or intwined within the culture they're trying to judge.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 5:11 pm

So the youngster of england youd pick miaow?

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Post by miaow on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 5:12 pm

Adam Radwan - is that Turkish/Arabic origin? Would he be the first Middle East and/or Asian heritage player to represent England at rugby?

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Post by miaow on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 5:12 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:So the youngster of england youd pick miaow?

what? rephrase please.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 5:16 pm

In terms of the thread rather than talk of people now gone: who would you pick come the 6 nations to refresh the side a touch.

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Post by miaow on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 5:20 pm

Cipriani at 10.

You?

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 5:22 pm

Cipriani. Jesus. Real young un. I've already posted mine.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 5:37 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Interestingly Gloucester, Bristol and Exeter are rumoured to be interested in Malins as his contract is up at the end of the season and his initial offer from Sarries was no increase. However they have since made a revised salary offer.

That may not be the case anymore with todays news

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Post by majesticimperialman on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 5:38 pm

I was thinking today if Dan Cole, Joe Marler, Ben Youngs would still be in come the 6ns.
I a;so do not like the idea of Daily at full back...surely there is some one, a proper full back who is just waiting for a chance, is there a Mike Brown type person who is yet to be discovered?

Will the Ford Farrell partnership continue?

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 5:43 pm

miaow wrote:Adam Radwan - is that Turkish/Arabic origin? Would he be the first Middle East and/or Asian heritage player to represent England at rugby?

Underwood's?

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Post by miaow on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 5:44 pm

I'd also give it Giggs-eh t'end of season...

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Post by miaow on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 5:47 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
miaow wrote:Adam Radwan - is that Turkish/Arabic origin? Would he be the first Middle East and/or Asian heritage player to represent England at rugby?

Underwood's?

Yes, good point. East Asian though, no?

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 5:55 pm

Hopefully Harry Mallinder will get back soon, I cannot find any news on his injury progress. He has all the skills to play 12 or 15 and covers 10 as well. There is nothing wrong with his game that coaching cannot sort out.

Other Saints players:

Ehren Painter is a monster, knocking on 21 stone and mobile, he has managed to hold his own in the premiership and with some coach from the Franks brothers could be exceptional.

Ludlam is all ready in the squad

Dingwall looked everything you need in a 13 last year before injury.

Ribbans is only 24 and looks quality on last years showing and has started with a blast this year.

A Mitchell as mentioned is a very good 9 and with the competition at Saints will either get a lot better of look for a move as there is a lot of good 9s there.


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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 5:55 pm

miaow wrote:
WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
miaow wrote:Adam Radwan - is that Turkish/Arabic origin? Would he be the first Middle East and/or Asian heritage player to represent England at rugby?

Underwood's?

Yes, good point. East Asian though, no?

Mum is Malasian

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Post by Rugby Fan on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 8:17 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
miaow wrote:Adam Radwan - is that Turkish/Arabic origin? Would he be the first Middle East and/or Asian heritage player to represent England at rugby?

Underwood's?
Also, Brian Moore is half Malaysian, and Marcus Smith's mum is a Filipina.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 9:09 pm

Talking of new scrum half's. What as happend to Brian Redpath's son?
 As he decided to pay for Scotland like his father did?

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Post by miaow on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 11:04 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
miaow wrote:Adam Radwan - is that Turkish/Arabic origin? Would he be the first Middle East and/or Asian heritage player to represent England at rugby?

Underwood's?
Also, Brian Moore is half Malaysian, and Marcus Smith's mum is a Filipina.

So potentially the first non-East Asian-Asian-heritage player to represent England. Yes? No?

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Post by Rugby Fan on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 5:53 am

miaow wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:
WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
miaow wrote:Adam Radwan - is that Turkish/Arabic origin? Would he be the first Middle East and/or Asian heritage player to represent England at rugby?

Underwood's?
Also, Brian Moore is half Malaysian, and Marcus Smith's mum is a Filipina.

So potentially the first non-East Asian-Asian-heritage player to represent England. Yes? No?
Maybe senior squad. Aadel Kardooni played for England A.

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 7:03 am

majesticimperialman wrote:Talking of new scrum half's. What as happend to Brian Redpath's son?
 As he decided to pay for Scotland like his father did?

Didn't he get banned for "contact with the eyes" towards the end of last season? Any way he is back playing centre for Sale (with the injury to Sam James) and until anyone comes calling he is officially EQP.

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 8:58 am

I have archived a series of bipartite bickering. The participants were spoken to yesterday by Admin and really need to consider the potential ramifications of continued bickering

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 9:01 am

I asked politely. Without the ability to report posts I can only do so through posting.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 9:10 am

No Radwan is not of Asian decendancy as far as i believe.

ANy way back to the thread...

For 6 nations...

1 Mako (Genge needs to start making the step up to challenge Mako) - Expecting Marler to retire again
2 George
3 Sinkler
4 Itoje
5 Lawes (We're missing a monster lock who can do the lot)
6 Curry (Ted Hll to be looked at in training)
7 Underhill (Willis to be looked at)
8 Billy V (Dombrandt / Mercer to be looked at)

9 (Youngs to be put to graze)
10 Ford - (Need to look at Mallins, Smith, Grayson etc.)
11 May ( Cockasaniga to get gametime)
12 Farrell - We must find a top class 12 with some size and power
13 Manu
14 Nowell
15 Watson

Daly on the bench


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Post by bluestonevedder on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 11:06 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:No Radwan is not of Asian decendancy as far as i believe.

ANy way back to the thread...

For 6 nations...

1 Mako (Genge needs to start making the step up to challenge Mako) - Expecting Marler to retire again
2 George
3 Sinkler
4 Itoje
5 Lawes (We're missing a monster lock who can do the lot)
6 Curry (Ted Hll to be looked at in training)
7 Underhill (Willis to be looked at)
8 Billy V (Dombrandt / Mercer to be looked at)

9 (Youngs to be put to graze)
10 Ford - (Need to look at Mallins, Smith, Grayson etc.)
11 Cockasaniga
12 Farrell - We must find a top class 12 with some size and power
13 Manu
14 Nowell
15 Watson

Daly on the bench

I haven't seen Mercer play this season but as good as he looked last, I think the overriding feeling is he needs to put some serious size on to play internationally. Any sign that he's beefed up over the offseason?

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Post by Soul Requiem on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 11:22 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:No Radwan is not of Asian decendancy as far as i believe.

ANy way back to the thread...

For 6 nations...

1 Mako (Genge needs to start making the step up to challenge Mako) - Expecting Marler to retire again
2 George
3 Sinkler
4 Itoje
5 Lawes (We're missing a monster lock who can do the lot)
6 Curry (Ted Hll to be looked at in training)
7 Underhill (Willis to be looked at)
8 Billy V (Dombrandt / Mercer to be looked at)

9 (Youngs to be put to graze)
10 Ford - (Need to look at Mallins, Smith, Grayson etc.)
11 Cockasaniga
12 Farrell - We must find a top class 12 with some size and power
13 Manu
14 Nowell
15 Watson

Daly on the bench

Marler retiring could be an issue outside of the six nations where Mako is an adequate enough scrummager but falls well short come world cup time, I genuinely think we could have won the final if their roles were reversed. An alternative 8 has to be found, quite liked the variety that Simmonds gave the side but you'd need a real power 6 like Hill or Dombrandt to compensate for the lack of physicality.

Jettisoning May? I like Cockanasiga but his aerial skills and defensive positioning are well short of where they should be at the moment, until he improves both facets he can't be any more than a bench option but Watson at full back is a must.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 11:28 am

i forgot all about May Doh

Thats fixed now.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 11:35 am

[quote="bluestonevedder"][quote="GeordieFalcon"]No Radwan is not of Asian decendancy as far as i believe.

ANy way back to the thread...

For 6 nations...

1 Mako (Genge needs to start making the step up to challenge Mako) - Expecting Marler to retire again
2 George
3 Sinkler
4 Itoje
5 Lawes (We're missing a monster lock who can do the lot)
6 Curry (Ted Hll to be looked at in training)
7 Underhill (Willis to be looked at)
8 Billy V (Dombrandt / [b]Mercer [/b]to be looked at)

9 (Youngs to be put to graze)
10 Ford - (Need to look at Mallins, Smith, Grayson etc.)
11 Cockasaniga
12 Farrell - We must find a top class 12 with some size and power
13 Manu
14 Nowell
15 Watson

Daly on the bench[/quote]

I haven't seen Mercer play this season but as good as he looked last, I think the overriding feeling is he needs to put some serious size on to play internationally. Any sign that he's beefed up over the offseason? [/quote]

First off yes, Mercer needs to make the grade ability wise before anything. It'll be interesting to watch this season.
But Physically Kieran Read is 6'3 and 17 stone 4 and Zac is 6'2 and 17 stone 4 so im not sure there is a problem there.

This is going to be a great watch to see how the head coach (whoever he is ) decides to balance his back row

Dombrandt, HIll etc now offer a more sizeable option at 6 (though isnt Dombrandt more of an 8 who can cover 6)
Curry x 2, Underhill, Earl, etc etc offer a more athletic mobile back row option.

Willis just offers everything.

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Post by bluestonevedder on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 11:44 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:
bluestonevedder wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:No Radwan is not of Asian decendancy as far as i believe.

ANy way back to the thread...

For 6 nations...

1 Mako (Genge needs to start making the step up to challenge Mako) - Expecting Marler to retire again
2 George
3 Sinkler
4 Itoje
5 Lawes (We're missing a monster lock who can do the lot)
6 Curry (Ted Hll to be looked at in training)
7 Underhill (Willis to be looked at)
8 Billy V (Dombrandt / Mercer to be looked at)

9 (Youngs to be put to graze)
10 Ford - (Need to look at Mallins, Smith, Grayson etc.)
11 Cockasaniga
12 Farrell - We must find a top class 12 with some size and power
13 Manu
14 Nowell
15 Watson

Daly on the bench

I haven't seen Mercer play this season but as good as he looked last, I think the overriding feeling is he needs to put some serious size on to play internationally. Any sign that he's beefed up over the offseason?

First off yes, Mercer needs to make the grade ability wise before anything. It'll be interesting to watch this season.
But Physically Kieran Read is 6'3 and 17 stone 4 and Zac is 6'2 and 17 stone 4 so im not sure there is a problem there.

This is going to be a great watch to see how the head coach (whoever he is ) decides to balance his back row

Dombrandt, HIll etc now offer a more sizeable option at 6 (though isnt Dombrandt more of an 8 who can cover 6)
Curry x 2, Underhill, Earl, etc etc offer a more athletic mobile back row option.

Willis just offers everything.  

Yeh, I don't quite trust mercer's stats there GF! I've seen him in person and he isn't physically imposing as you'd expect from a no.8.

Great options coming through the backrow. Earl has started the season so well and must be pushing for a starting place in the first team. Coupled with Ludlum coming back to the prem encouraged by his caps, and Ben Curry wanting to emulate his brother, we could be in for a heck of a competition for England places!

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 11:56 am

There could be fireworks Vedder.

It does say he's bulked up...but then theres not many Dalaglios about.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 12:01 pm

I don't expect Ludlum to get that many opportunities moving forward.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 12:21 pm

What options are coming through at 12?

Is Tompkins are Sarries a viable option going forward?

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 12:28 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:I don't expect Ludlum to get that many opportunities moving forward.

What is it that makes you say that?

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Post by Soul Requiem on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 12:35 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:I don't expect Ludlum to get that many opportunities moving forward.

What is it that makes you say that?

Curry and Underhill are way ahead of him, Wilson I expect to see retained for a year or two at least for some stability and experience on the bench, beyond that there are a lot of younger guys coming through who will overtake him fairly quickly. Once Hill, Dombrandt and Willis make the step up I expect to see the Curry and Underhill partnership to be split up.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 12:37 pm

Yeah i think your right there.

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Post by bluestonevedder on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 12:43 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:What options are coming through at 12?

Is Tompkins are Sarries a viable option going forward?

Tompkins is a great player but I just worry about his lack of game time if he stays at Saracens.

Devoto seems like he is starting to flourish again after his early (and probably unjustified) England caps. He's got the size and offloading game to be a very good international 12. Sam James should be considered too but how long have we been saying that for? He's got a serious case of the Mark Wilson virus in that he doesn't get noticed because he plays for a unfashionable team. Hopefully with Sale's acquisitions and likely high-placing finish this season, we could see him get some recognition. I've also always liked Sam Hill at Exeter but he struggles for consistent game time. Not sure whether it's rotation or injuries but he offers quite a different skillset.

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