Dylan Hartley, England's second most capped player and former captain of the national team, retires.

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Dylan Hartley, England's second most capped player and former captain of the national team, retires. Empty Dylan Hartley, England's second most capped player and former captain of the national team, retires.

Post by miaow on Thu 07 Nov 2019, 12:46 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50332937

Just Big Phil Vickery left standing now out of the front row boys from the old days.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Thu 07 Nov 2019, 6:13 pm

I am surprised he has retired from rugby all together. I did rather think he would retire from international rugby....I do not think he would have got back in to the England set up any time soon. But as he is suffering from bad knees, if you cannot run, you cannot play.

Good luck to him. All the best for the future.

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Post by hugehandoff on Thu 07 Nov 2019, 7:11 pm

He was a very decent player and just what we needed post the previous RWC. A hard nosed player with a very decent lineout throw. I wish him all the best for his next career.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Thu 07 Nov 2019, 7:25 pm

From what I can gather, it is not his knees that are the issue, they are a problem, yes, but it is the previous concussions he has suffered and he is now getting side effects from that have made him decide to retire.

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 07 Nov 2019, 8:25 pm

Something of a nearly man for England. Won a lot of caps, not a lot of trophies. Could (should) have been even more of both.
But when it all washes up he can be very proud of having achieved a hell of a lot on his career, and no doubt has had some great "bants with the lads" along the way.


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Post by Mr Bounce on Thu 07 Nov 2019, 9:13 pm

Hartley is (was) such a Marmite player. Some loved him, some hated him and others sat on the fence (me as one of them). Good achievements, a lot of bans (none internationally) and a reputation as a no holds barred hard case of a hooker.

He should have had Lions caps and might have made 100 appearances for England, but too often his temper got the better of him. As is often the case when a player retires, a lot of "coulda woulda shoulda" being mentioned.

Hope he has something decent lined up - he was quite a talent.

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Post by miaow on Thu 07 Nov 2019, 10:28 pm

Very good player, wasn't he. And I find it amazing he's England's second most capped player. Almost snuck under the radar wth that.

Best England captain since Martin Johnson as well. Could have done with him in 2015 and I think he would have been a key figure in the team - even from the bench - this year as well had he stayed fit.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 07 Nov 2019, 10:58 pm

He can retire now happy in the knowledge that had he been in Japan, England would be coming home with the Cup.  England needed one or two of the older salty sailors to remind them that rugby is bloomin' war not just fancy dancing and running....stuff.  A finger chewing pirate like Hartley would'a been well placed.

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Post by Cyril on Thu 07 Nov 2019, 11:15 pm

The weird thing is, considering his rather chequered disciplinary record at club level, he always seemed very calm during internationals. Probably the best line out hooker of his generation and a very solid operator. Pretty good with refs too.

Even as a younger player he didn’t react badly to that trip by a certain Welsh future captain Smile

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Post by Scottrf on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 10:15 am

Sad that his retirement was not under his control.

Great player for both my club and country. Our only premiership winning captain and multiple 6 nations winner as England captain.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 10:18 am

Out of interest how many England games did he miss because of disciplinary issues?

Without injuries would have gone to the world cup and would have reached 100 caps.

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 10:24 am

Red cards against Tigers in 2013 and Saracens 2015 saw him miss both a Lions Tour and a World Cup (making RWC 2011 his only WC). He will feel hard done by both claiming he was addressing Tom Youngs not Wayne Barnes and the "headbutt" was a ridiculous ban. Much worse has been seen since with no punishment (including by certain "demigods" of the international game).

Premiership winning captain, Grand Slam winning captain - he should be proud of his career, assuming the concussions allow him to remember it.

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Post by Scottrf on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 10:26 am

Headbutt was 100% only because it was Dylan. People square up like that all the time...

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Post by Soul Requiem on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 10:41 am

I always thought his ban for the Barnes incident was ridiculous, it was so clear he wasn't talking to him.

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 2:37 pm

The biting incident was in an international wasnt it?

3 reds, 17 yellows, 4 other bans. A fair chuck of that  time he served prior to getting caped though, and has potentially missed as many caps through injury (concussion this summer, knees for the world cup) as anything else, although his selection for the world cup wouldnt have been guaranteed especially given Jones was not shy about leaving out former first choices.


Last edited by Gooseberry on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 2:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by lostinwales on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 2:41 pm

Gooseberry wrote:The biting incident was in an international wasnt it?

Vs Ireland. Controversial as the most likely reason the target digits were in his mouth were because they were placed there (fish hook). Can't remember if there was a 2nd incident

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Post by Barney McGrew did it on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 3:08 pm

All but the early gouging incident (for which he served a decent ban, for the time) I’m not so worried about - even the biting was response to a fish-hook. Yes he was a niggle player and deserved a bit of a reputation, but if ever there was an example of needing in-your-face aggressive players – we’ve just had one. I’d have had a fit Dylan and Brown in that game in a flash (albeit in hind-sight). We need more tough competitors in the side, not more role-models.
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Post by Soul Requiem on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 3:11 pm

lostinwales wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:The biting incident was in an international wasnt it?

Vs Ireland. Controversial as the most likely reason the target digits were in his mouth were because they were placed there (fish hook). Can't remember if there was a 2nd incident

The citing commission used Ferris' previous good record as reason why it couldn't have been a fish hook despite there being no other explanation?

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Post by Rugby Fan on Sat 09 Nov 2019, 4:28 am

His stint as England captain put his whole career in a new light. Up to the 2015 World Cup, he was regarded as one of the best hookers in Britain & Ireland, with a destructive streak which had blighted his career.

Jones may have selected him as hooker without making him captain, but the captaincy meant Hartley got a lot of credit for restoring England's fortunes. He ought to be able to look back on his rugby life with a lot more satisfaction than seemed likely four years ago.

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Post by SecretFly on Sat 09 Nov 2019, 10:56 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:The biting incident was in an international wasnt it?

Vs Ireland. Controversial as the most likely reason the target digits were in his mouth were because they were placed there (fish hook). Can't remember if there was a 2nd incident

The citing commission used Ferris' previous good record as reason why it couldn't have been a fish hook despite there being no other explanation?

Of course you can bite a finger in a melee without it first being injected into your mouth.  Haven't any of you been in battle with Viking marauders?  Bloody kids!  No experience.  Well, anything goes.  A clawing hand grips your arm or shirt, it's an easy job to isolate a finger for nip treatment.

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Post by Cyril on Sat 09 Nov 2019, 11:48 am

Ferris mentions the incident in nearly every interview or commentary he is involved in. He seems to be desperate for an apology from Hartley.

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Post by SecretFly on Sat 09 Nov 2019, 5:51 pm

Cyril wrote:Ferris mentions the incident in nearly every interview or commentary he is involved in. He seems to be desperate for an apology from Hartley.

I think he just wants to be certain people know he had a central part in such folklore.  These stories are told through decades, and of course they grow too depending on the storyteller.  But all good stuff.  It's the tales of our sport.

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Post by miaow on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 8:53 am

Ferris is a bit of a weird one. He reminds me of someone I grew up playing with. Giant of a man but someone the way he acts doesn't fit his body. Admire his 'realism' but he seems regularly exasperated by a lot of things and comes across a bit...naive...at times. Nice enough man - and no doubt came in for his fair share of gouging and all that sh1te - but not sure you gain much by banging on about it.

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 12:48 pm

One of my most cherished memories is of Ferris picking up a little player ( can't remember the bit about the player's name! - or team!) ...just virtually picking him off the ground and running forward with him in his arms must have been about 15 metres.  But the bit I love about that memory was actually how gentle Ferris was.  He was making a statement of power but you realised he knew he had a vulnerable man in his arms.  So he kept a firm hold of him and just drove him backwards.  
A gentle soul really in punditry terms.  But as a player, he had a lot of power at his disposal.  Pity his time was limited.

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Post by miaow on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 8:15 pm

I remember that. It was Genia in the 2011 RWC in the game where they smashed them. I'll see if I can find it.

EDIT:



Yep, here it is.

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 9:17 pm

No, miaow.  That's one of them.  But there is a more poetic one when he's wearing an Ulster shirt.  Just can't recall the team...maybe a Pro14 side.

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Post by miaow on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 9:18 pm

Ah, my mistake then!

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 9:22 pm

No, it's okay. OK I'll ask one of the Ulster boys, they might know. The Genia one is good but the other one is explosive.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 11:11 am

Quality player and will be missed. Saw the start that for any hooker throwing in more than 150 times he has the highest completion at around 93%.

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