Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[beninho]

First topic message reminder :

https://officiating.worldrugby.org/?module=3&section=36&subsection=129&language=en

"It is not mandatory for the team receiving the challenge to face it."

How many effing times. If they don't face it up silently and respectfully they get massive media criticism.

No they don't!

This is getting crazy!

[super_realist]

I don't see that the SNP are doing a particularly good job. I pay a lot more tax to live here, yet the same problems that are in the rest of the UK are present in Scotland, and in some cases such as health still a lot lower than the rest of the UK.

I tried to get some SNP voter to say what is so good about an snp government and about the best he could do was mention baby boxes. Big bloody deal.

We are in a period in the UK when no government anywhere is making life significantly better, it would not really matter who was in.

The SNP are almost exactly the same as the Brexiteers they claim to despise so much. They have no better reasons for leaving the UK than Brexiteers do for leaving the EU, yet they don't seem to see the irony.

[McLaren]

Super

Not sure the SNPs ability to govern has much to do with how successful an independent Scotland would be. Obviously they would form the first government but after that hopefully a modern left party would come to prominence.

Also to be clear I am not currently pro indy but your failure to accept a somewhat reasonable position for it exists has me at least pointing that argument out.

In 2014 much greater devolution and remaining in the EU were promised, as anti indy supporters we would need to find a way to credibly excuse those broken promises. I currently couldn't think of a way. And this problem will have swayed many people who voted no last time.

[McLaren]

Ps I think you missed the smiley on my previous post. Lighten up.

[super_realist]

Super

Not sure the SNPs ability to govern has much to do with how successful an independent Scotland would be. Obviously they would form the first government but after that hopefully a modern left party would come to prominence.

Also to be clear I am not currently pro indy but your failure to accept a somewhat reasonable position for it exists has me at least pointing that argument out.

In 2014 much greater devolution and remaining in the EU were promised, as anti indy supporters we would need to find a way to credibly excuse those broken promises. I currently couldn't think of a way. And this problem will have swayed many people who voted no last time.

I don't think it's a reasonable position at all Mac because I have yet to see a decent argument for it. Everything I have seen boils down to emotion. I've asked Indy supporters plenty of times, but their arguments are as absent of those from Brexiteers.

What promises made have not been enacted? What is it the SNP would like to do following the independence referendum happened that they feel they can't achieve now? Again, seems like the same sort of Brexiteer argument when asked what laws from the EU they'd like to change.

[navyblueshorts]

Genetically there is no such thing as black but you still take issue with it.

Give it a rest Mac.

Seconded.

[navyblueshorts]

Interestingly JAS the spiteful SNP only got 45% of the ballot, therefore I don't see how they could be confident they'd even win a referendum.
They still have fewer people voting for them in Scotland than voted for both No in the Indy ref and Brexit in the EU referendum.

They've also got the Salmond trial coming up too.

Oddly as well Super as a kind of quid pro quo, if you totalled up remain/2nd referendum/people’s vote  party votes and Pro Brexit parties votes and made the Brexit decision based on that, we wouldn’t be leaving. The fact is we live in a first past the post representative  democracy and so we get the kind of quirks that you and I have just highlighted.

Any upcoming indyref2 will have a significantly different backdrop to 2014. I.e. a coalition government within the EU versus a Tory 80 majority, nationalist, dog whistle racist, isolationist government outside the EU. It would be a MASSIVE leap to expect Scottish voters to vote the same in those 2 scenarios.
Not sure the Salmond trial will cut much trouble, not exactly the kind of issue Sturgeon would get herself mired in is it. You do have to take your hat off to Sturgeon, don’t particularly like her, I find her repetitive and irritating but I do credit her with decent leadership, if you win over 80% of the seats you’ve contested you must have a) got your message across & b) marshalled you’re troops well. Having said that, it now remains to be seen where exactly she has led her troops!!

You're letting your prejudices show, JAS. Nationalist? As if that's a priori bad? Could be, but not a given. Dog whistle racist? Bit of a leap - let's see what Johnson actually does. Isolationist? Says whom? I didn't think that was the aim at all; more an opportunity to trade more widely. He'd be truly stupid to think isolation a la Victoria's 'splendid isolation' is a goer in 21st century and w/o an actual Empire to reply on.

Still, the SNP-supporting Scots would no doubt support such a nonsense image as a reason to jump ship.

[McLaren]

I agree with Navy, dog whistle is inaccurate, they have been totally blatant.

[super_realist]

Mac, are you going to Matt Dillahunty?

[McLaren]

Are you kidding me. I asked you if you wanted to go and you didn't respond.

[westisbest]

On the subject of asking people if they are going somewhere.
Super are you going to SPOTY?

In your neck of the woods I see.

[super_realist]

On the subject of asking people if they are going somewhere.
Super are you going to SPOTY?

In your neck of the woods I see.

SPOTY is rubbish these days.

[pedro]

super’s wettest dream would be a SPOTY back stage pass with Lewis Hamilton.

[George1507]

What promises made have not been enacted? What is it the SNP would like to do following the independence referendum happened that they feel they can't achieve now? Again, seems like the same sort of Brexiteer argument when asked what laws from the EU they'd like to change.

That's too rational a question to ask. We're living in a time when "taking control" of your life, or finances, or hair or even the music you listen to is seen as a goal. Loads of tv advertising emphasizes this slightly arcane (and frankly unachievable) nexus. It's quite an easy sell for politicians to ride the coattails of this and assert that a vote for Joe Blow is a vote for taking control of (choose as appropriate) laws, immigration, wealth redistribution, education et al.

All this is tied in with the death of expertise. People used to revere experts. Now the world is full of Zebras. They are people who see things in black and white. They are sure of their own opinions and they disdain information or science which undermines their beliefs. In the "The Death of Expertise" by Tom Nichols he writes that ignorance is now seen as a virtue. ‘To reject the advice of experts is to assert autonomy, a way for people to demonstrate independence from nefarious elites and to insulate their fragile egos from ever being told that they are wrong.’

[kwinigolfer]

"The Death of Expertise" by Tom Nichols was actually written by Donald Drumpf.

Excellent post George; every word applies to politics (and pretty much everything else) in the US and sad that the phenomenon has migrated east.

[pedro]

Well, can’t really disagree much. But I guess there’s a reason we get the chance to vote for politicians rather than having a technocracy.

[pedro]

"The Death of Expertise" by Tom Nichols was actually written by Donald Drumpf.

Excellent post George; every word applies to politics (and pretty much everything else) in the US and sad that the phenomenon has migrated east.

Don’t be so sad about the Death of Expertise, kwini. It seems to have revived your wet dream socialist agenda.

[kwinigolfer]

"The Death of Expertise" by Tom Nichols was actually written by Donald Drumpf.

Excellent post George; every word applies to politics (and pretty much everything else) in the US and sad that the phenomenon has migrated east.

Don’t be so sad about the Death of Expertise, kwini. It seems to have revived your wet dream socialist agenda.

Not so much pedro, but the USA is sooooo conservative (or worse) that any thinking person has got to feel there's a fairer way. No opinion on GB&NI politics except can't abide Johnson or Corbin, and would love to kick Rees Mogg squarely in the nuts. Just don't sell out to the 1% US agenda.

[McLaren]

Well, can’t really disagree much. But I guess there’s a reason we get the chance to vote for politicians rather than having a technocracy.

What is the reason and is it a good one?

[JAS]

Well, can’t really disagree much. But I guess there’s a reason we get the chance to vote for politicians rather than having a technocracy.

What is the reason and is it a good one?

It’s to give the masses the illusion that their opinion matters and counts for something...in reality it doesn’t but the illusion for the most part works quite well.

[super_realist]

I don't think anyone ever votes on the basis that they think their votes count for much as anyone who's been around longer than the age of a millennial knows that any elected government throws all their promises right out the window as soon at they can.

On another note, I see Corbyn is still damaging the Labour party, hanging around to ensure that the next leader is someone like him, guaranteeing another 10 years of Tory government. This man should be up on treason charges. Disgusting little ogre.

[JAS]

I don't think anyone ever votes on the basis that they think their votes count for much as anyone who's been around longer than the age of a millennial knows that any elected government throws all their promises right out the window as soon at they can.

On another note, I see Corbyn is still damaging the Labour party, hanging around to ensure that the next leader is someone like him, guaranteeing another 10 years of Tory government. This man should be up on treason charges. Disgusting little ogre.

I thought he & McD took responsibility at the weekend?
They are now lost and in a mess that’s for sure. Trouble is the membership is way over half a million, many of whom joined in what some would call “cult Corbyn” so any lurch back to the Blairite right could precipitate a membership meltdown.

In reality they have to move slightly to the right and elect somebody with leadership, vision and charisma....aye you’re right 10-15 years in opposition beckons.

Meanwhile the sad irony is that everybody berates dishonesty in politics but quite frankly last Thurs showed that it’s fine to lie through your teeth, people don’t care (they can say they do until they’re blue in the face but Thursdays result confirms otherwise).

[navyblueshorts]

I don't think anyone ever votes on the basis that they think their votes count for much as anyone who's been around longer than the age of a millennial knows that any elected government throws all their promises right out the window as soon at they can.

On another note, I see Corbyn is still damaging the Labour party, hanging around to ensure that the next leader is someone like him, guaranteeing another 10 years of Tory government. This man should be up on treason charges. Disgusting little ogre.

I thought he & McD took responsibility at the weekend?
They are now lost and in a mess that’s for sure. Trouble is the membership is way over half a million, many of whom joined in what some would call “cult Corbyn”  so any lurch back to the Blairite right could precipitate a membership meltdown.

In reality they have to move slightly to the right and elect somebody with leadership, vision and charisma....aye you’re right 10-15 years in opposition beckons.

Meanwhile the sad irony is that everybody berates dishonesty in politics but quite frankly last Thurs showed that it’s fine to lie through your teeth, people don’t care (they can say they do until they’re blue in the face but Thursdays result confirms otherwise).

They all lie/lied, JAS. Often called a 'Manifesto'. Perhaps voters had higher priorities? Doesn't mean they like lying.

[super_realist]

I don't think anyone ever votes on the basis that they think their votes count for much as anyone who's been around longer than the age of a millennial knows that any elected government throws all their promises right out the window as soon at they can.

On another note, I see Corbyn is still damaging the Labour party, hanging around to ensure that the next leader is someone like him, guaranteeing another 10 years of Tory government. This man should be up on treason charges. Disgusting little ogre.

I thought he & McD took responsibility at the weekend?
They are now lost and in a mess that’s for sure. Trouble is the membership is way over half a million, many of whom joined in what some would call “cult Corbyn”  so any lurch back to the Blairite right could precipitate a membership meltdown.

In reality they have to move slightly to the right and elect somebody with leadership, vision and charisma....aye you’re right 10-15 years in opposition beckons.

Meanwhile the sad irony is that everybody berates dishonesty in politics but quite frankly last Thurs showed that it’s fine to lie through your teeth, people don’t care (they can say they do until they’re blue in the face but Thursdays result confirms otherwise).

They might have offered a token apology, but anyone with any sense of shame or decency would immediately resign their positions.
Who cares if Labour have a membership breakdown? Surely what matters is that they occupy a position where they can offer a viable alternative to the Tories. Being spiteful and wanting to follow teenage politics is only going to end one way. Labour supporters/members have to realise that the Labour party can only go one way if it wants to progress. Therefore picking Long Bailey as next leader would be suicide.

AS I said earlier, it doesn't matter that politicians lie through their teeth, no one believes them. Everyone knows they are frauds. Trouble is that Corbyn and McDonell are so conceited that they didn't realise how much people hate them. That takes real hubris, and they still can't see it. If they did they would resign for the good of their party.
They need a very wide and stout broom to get rid of Corbyn, McDonnel, Abbott etc.

[dynamark]

Interesting weekend listening to Labours woes.
McDonnell is so conceited he still thinks the british electorate made a mistake/didn't understand and today they blame the media for a campaign against Corbyn.
The momentum left wing takeover project is over thank goodness and in the words of a football commentator 'your boys took a hell of a beating'
They have a majority lets see what they can do.
Happen to think Brexit party had an influence giving labour leavers somewhere to put their cross and effectively reducing the labour vote.Tories only got 1% more than last time round.

[JAS]

I don't think anyone ever votes on the basis that they think their votes count for much as anyone who's been around longer than the age of a millennial knows that any elected government throws all their promises right out the window as soon at they can.

On another note, I see Corbyn is still damaging the Labour party, hanging around to ensure that the next leader is someone like him, guaranteeing another 10 years of Tory government. This man should be up on treason charges. Disgusting little ogre.

I thought he & McD took responsibility at the weekend?
They are now lost and in a mess that’s for sure. Trouble is the membership is way over half a million, many of whom joined in what some would call “cult Corbyn”  so any lurch back to the Blairite right could precipitate a membership meltdown.

In reality they have to move slightly to the right and elect somebody with leadership, vision and charisma....aye you’re right 10-15 years in opposition beckons.

Meanwhile the sad irony is that everybody berates dishonesty in politics but quite frankly last Thurs showed that it’s fine to lie through your teeth, people don’t care (they can say they do until they’re blue in the face but Thursdays result confirms otherwise).

They might have offered a token apology, but anyone with any sense of shame or decency would immediately resign their positions.
Who cares if Labour have a membership breakdown? Surely what matters is that they occupy a position where they can offer a viable alternative to the Tories. Being spiteful and wanting to follow teenage politics is only going to end one way. Labour supporters/members have to realise that the Labour party can only go one way if it wants to progress. Therefore picking Long Bailey as next leader would be suicide.

AS I said earlier, it doesn't matter that politicians lie through their teeth, no one believes them. Everyone knows they are frauds. Trouble is that Corbyn and McDonell are so conceited that they didn't realise how much people hate them. That takes real hubris, and they still can't see it. If they did they would resign for the good of their party.
They need a very wide and stout broom to get rid of Corbyn, McDonnel, Abbott etc.

Look, I don’t like his evasion and shiftiness, that kind of nonsense will NEVER win over a U.K. electorate and I’m not sure why Corbyn and his advisors never tried to address that. The wriggle on the queens speech was excruciating, as was a few months back when he lip sync’d “Stupid woman” to May under his breath and tried to deny it. In the grand scheme of things hardly a heinous crime but when the right wing press are there with their fingers on the trigger he had to be whiter than white and he wasn’t. A minor slip suddenly becomes a treasonable offence and a strong indicator of unsuitability for high office (personally I think that’s utter tripe) but he and his team knew where enemy lines would be be drawn and he couldn’t seem to avoid tripping into PR minefields.

That being said the whole Tory campaign was riddled with whoppers and the right wing media have them a free pass.
1. Brexit won’t be “Done” in Jan, it’s going to trip on for years.
2. We  will NOT be getting 50000 new nurses, ditto 20000 policemen
3. How many hospitals will they actually build again?
4. Yet they’ll still offer tax cuts??
5. I could go on but it would take a while..

Did you not see the independent fact checker site  fullfact.org assessment that 88% of Tory manifesto commitments advertising were untruthful or misleading whereas 0% of Labours was. I therefore stand steadfastly behind my assertion that the Tories lied through their teeth and we’re rewarded handsomely for doing so.

Only time will tell and actually I’d prefer to be wrong but let’s see how it pans out eh, we may get the post Brexit economic boom. Airborne bacon is a higher possibility in my humble opinion but we’ll see.

[super_realist]

My criticism of Labour doesn't mean I support the Tories or trust anything they say.
I don't think anyone is gullible enough to believe anything any politician says.

Both Labour and the Tories had laughable manifestos and it anyone believed either of them they are mentally unstable. No one should expect anything to be enacted from the Tory one, just as no one expected the Labour one to be envoked had a miracle happened and they actually got in.

The electorate have to take a lot of the blame.

[JAS]

My criticism of Labour doesn't mean I support the Tories or trust anything they say.
I don't think anyone is gullible enough to believe anything any politician says.

Both Labour and the Tories had laughable manifestos and it anyone believed either of them they are mentally unstable. No one should expect anything to be enacted from the Tory one, just as no one expected the Labour one to be envoked had a miracle happened and they actually got in.

The electorate have to take a lot of the blame.

There is a frustration and to be fair you probably agree with this...The country NEEDS an effective opposition and last weeks result has decimated both Labour AND the Lib Dem’s, both clearly got their strategies wrong but the by product is that an effective opposition has been kicked way down the road.

[JAS]

...and what’s all this nonsense about Johnson saying he’s a “one nation” Tory. Bet the ERG just love that...not!! :-p The likelyhood is by the end of his first 5 years it’ll be anything but one nation. Three and counting (waiting for the Welsh to wake up and/or grow a pair).

[navyblueshorts]

...and what’s all this nonsense about Johnson saying he’s a “one nation” Tory. Bet the ERG just love that...not!! :-p The likelyhood is by the end of his first 5 years it’ll be anything but one nation. Three and counting (waiting for the Welsh to wake up and/or grow a pair).

Maybe he is, JAS? The ERG can do one and hopefully Johnson has enough support w/o them. The UK was killed by offering devolution; Brexit etc will just hasten it.

[super_realist]

My criticism of Labour doesn't mean I support the Tories or trust anything they say.
I don't think anyone is gullible enough to believe anything any politician says.

Both Labour and the Tories had laughable manifestos and it anyone believed either of them they are mentally unstable. No one should expect anything to be enacted from the Tory one, just as no one expected the Labour one to be envoked had a miracle happened and they actually got in.

The electorate have to take a lot of the blame.

There is a frustration and to be fair you probably agree with this...The country NEEDS an effective opposition and last weeks result has decimated both Labour AND the Lib Dem’s, both clearly got their strategies wrong but the by product is that an effective opposition has been kicked way down the road.

Agree, competition is a good thing, which is one of the reasons Corbyn failed, he wanted to take competition out of the economy by nationalising everything.

[dynamark]

About time someone pointed out to Ms Sturgeon in very large letters that we have just had a general election to see who governs the UK not a referendum on Scottish inpendence

[super_realist]

About time someone pointed out to Ms Sturgeon in very large letters that we have just had a general election to see who governs the UK not a referendum on Scottish inpendence

She won't listen. Everything, and I mean everything is the fault of the English and serves as another reason for her to get her "indy2" referendum to her.

She's a poisonous little twerp with a massive chip on her shoulder. Horrid woman, and a horrid party.

Something about the accent of everyone in the SNP makes me reach for the remote to mute it. Hideous.

[Tattie Scones RRN]

You hate Scottish accents Super?

Out of interest, what accent do you have?

[super_realist]

You hate Scottish accents Super?

Out of interest, what accent do you have?

I said I hate the accents of people who are spokespeople of the SNP therefore horrible accents like Nicola Sturgeon, Marie Black, Ian Blackford, David Linden, Stewart Hosie etc.

[JAS]

About time someone pointed out to Ms Sturgeon in very large letters that we have just had a general election to see who governs the UK not a referendum on Scottish inpendence

Actually, winning over 80% of the seats you contest is a bit of a big deal, in Westminster terms that would be about 540ish seats? Thatcher used to mock the SNP by saying...”how about you get over half the seats in Scotland then we’ll talk”

To be fair as I see it Jockland ain’t the biggest problem. With a majority of NI seats now with republican supporting parties that’s a much bigger issue for Johnson and it’s not about whether or not the union loses Scotland and/or NI, it’s the way it might happen in NIs case.  I can’t see NI toddling off to Dublin without some blood being spilt, sincerely hope I’m wrong but I just don’t see Johnson as having the negotiating skills to steer that particular ship off the rocks.

[Be_the_ball]

Just reading about Bernie's daughter, (not that one Kwini). £50m in jewelry! Does that mean there is a single decker bus full of cockneys half perched over a cliff somewhere?

[kwinigolfer]

Nah,
Our Bernie doesn't have one. And I know his step daughter and she wouldn't look good in 50 mil's worth of baubles, not her style at all. Amazing that it's anybody's style . . . . . . .

[dynamark]

Petty cash boys.Seems a bit odd on the security front.Top man Bernie very clever boy to do what he did with F1 along with the likes of Frank Williams,Paddy McNally,Patrick Head and others.
SNP did very well but as down south the labour vote dropped away and that is the reason for the extra seats .I'm not sure many new folk voted tory down here but they didn't vote labour.
Tory vote was only 1% up but labour vote was well down .
Hopefuly Boris will tell her to go away and get on with running what they have control over in Scotland.

[super_realist]

Just reading about Bernie's daughter, (not that one Kwini). £50m in jewelry! Does that mean there is a single decker bus full of cockneys half perched over a cliff somewhere?

Anybody with £50m of jewelry and who keeps it in their house deserves to have it stolen. She must be an absolute moron.

[super_realist]

About time someone pointed out to Ms Sturgeon in very large letters that we have just had a general election to see who governs the UK not a referendum on Scottish inpendence

Actually, winning over 80% of the seats you contest is a bit of a big deal, in Westminster terms that would be about 540ish seats? Thatcher used to mock the SNP by saying...”how about you get over half the seats in Scotland then we’ll talk”

To be fair as I see it Jockland ain’t the biggest problem. With a majority of NI seats now with republican supporting parties that’s a much bigger issue for Johnson and it’s not about whether or not the union loses Scotland and/or NI, it’s the way it might happen in NIs case.  I can’t see NI toddling off to Dublin without some blood being spilt, sincerely hope I’m wrong but I just don’t see Johnson as having the negotiating skills to steer that particular ship off the rocks.

Northern Ireland could leave the union and no one would notice. It's a fairly pointless province.

[McLaren]

Super

That is probably how many people in England feel about Scotland. And yet you are desperate to remain part of the UK despite not being wanted.

[George1507]

Actually, I think that's wrong. The man on the Clapham omnibus tends to be a Unionist. There's much more support for the Union in England than there is in Scotland, and if there was a referendum in Scotland today, I'm pretty sure it would be to remain in the Union.

[dynamark]

Interesting point George.Its not that surprising that a lot of scots vote SNP(and others don't vote labour or cons) to strengthen their governance of what they control but it doesn't amount to a vote for independence and staying in Europe.
That's a much bigger deal

[navyblueshorts]

Interesting point George.Its not that surprising that a lot of scots vote SNP(and others don't vote labour or cons) to strengthen their governance of what they control but it doesn't amount to a vote for independence and staying in Europe.
That's a much bigger deal

This was, in effect, the situation in 2014/15. Voted to stay in UK and then returned as many SNP MPs to Westminster as possible. I don't like that, but can see why it was done by those north of the border.

[superflyweight]

SNP won big in 2015 because almost eveyone who'd voted for independence in the referendum voted for them in the general election.  The no vote was spread out amongst the other parties and that coupled with a low turnout of those who had voted no in the referendum led to a massive win for the SNP.  

I'm not yet sure what the latest election result tells us.  I know some people who voted SNP for the first time who don't necessarily support independence but who wanted to register a protest against Brexit.

[super_realist]

Super

That is probably how many people in England feel about Scotland. And yet you are desperate to remain part of the UK despite not being wanted.

Well, they might feel like that, but Scotland is a far bigger part of the union and adds much more to it than NI does.

Just as well you didn't go to see Matt Dillahunty last night Mac, all the soap dodgers were out in force.

[McLaren]

Did you go?

[super_realist]

Yeah. It wasn't great though. You could tell he was just going through the motions and would rather be somewhere else which isn't a surprise seeing what a dump Glasgow is on a cold, wet December night.
A little bit entertaining, but the audience took away from the enjoyment.

[McLaren]

What was the format, was he debating someone?

[super_realist]

No, it was a show about scepticism. One hour show on scepticism demonstrated with magic tricks and then one hour q and a on anything.

Far too many smelly, deadbeat intolerable millennials polluting the room and rather unfairly  turned on a man who dared to bring up lack of scepticism in the preposterous claims of climate change alarmists.
He made his point very poorly to be fair, but didn't need to be shouted down by people unwilling to hear him out. Anyone with a brain could see what he was trying to say. Typical millennials. Couldn't see the analogy and irony between a lack of justification for religious beliefs and lack of justification for the claims of climate alarmists.
Dare to question the element of climate change that isn't supported by science and all of a sudden they shouted the old man down. Shows how intolerant the young have become.

*wasn't me who asked by the way.

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