Glasgow vs Edinburgh 1872 part 1

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Post by EWT Spoons on Mon 16 Dec 2019, 10:54 am

Glasgow Warriors vs Edinburgh
Saturday 21st December
KO 17:45
Scotstoun
Prem Sports


Well after being peer pressured into this, over on the general chat thread, here we go. The game of the season so far, Glasgow fresh from a terrible start to the campaign (from their point of view) up against an Edinburgh team, who flirted briefly with some attacking nous and have of late gone back to the prudish style they utilised for most of last season.

I'd say I have no idea how this game will go, but the most recent of these fixtures does suggest a clear winner, and that won't be rugby. Prepare for the most turgid game of rugby known to man, culminating in a win for the true heros of Scottish rugby...Edinburgh.

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Post by tigertattie on Mon 16 Dec 2019, 10:59 am

Decent thread spoons.

Lack of general name calling towards the unwashed ones. You know, the team who have only once gotten out the group stages in Europe and that was because Edinburgh gave them a pass, the team who keep saying they’ll be future champions even though they sit 8 points behind the true rugby team of Scotland, you know, the one with the proper pack, the one that humps the unwashed annually.

But still. Good effort bud
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Post by RDW on Mon 16 Dec 2019, 11:02 am

Top work Spoons!  Laugh

I think you're right that these games are going to be for the purists. Glasgow haven't been on good form of late but their defence has been pretty hard to break down. Edinburgh have been picking up wins but the performances have been pretty dreadful, particularly in attack. That all bodes to a complete slug fest.

Trying to be serious and putting the partisan chat aside, I think Edinburgh will grind Glasgow down and win in an incredibly boring 18-15 win or something like that. Both teams will open up a bit at Murrayfield but it will still be pretty grim stuff.

I fear for some of the Glasgow players who have been flogged of late, some of them have put in back to back 80 minute shifts in Europe which is tough. Conversely I'm slightly concerned Edinburgh won't be fully battle hardened and cohesive given all the chopping and changing (who would ever think we could say that about Cockers!).

I'd go for something like this for Edinburgh

1 Schoeman
2 McInally
3 Nel
4 Toolis
5 Gilchrist
6 Ritchie
7 Watson
8 Bardbury

9 Groom (but it will be Pyrgos)
10 VDW (Hickey blew his chance at the weekend)
11 VDM
12 Taylor (Scott has been injured of late)
13 Bennett
14 Graham
15 Kinghorn

Subs - Sutherland, Willemse, Berghan, Charmichael, Mata, Pyrgos, Hickey, JJ

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 16 Dec 2019, 11:20 am

RDW wrote:
I fear for some of the Glasgow players who have been flogged of late, some of them have put in back to back 80 minute shifts in Europe which is tough. Conversely I'm slightly concerned Edinburgh won't be fully battle hardened and cohesive given all the chopping and changing (who would ever think we could say that about Cockers!).

Sheesh, 12 months ago you were moaning about no rotation Run

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Post by RDW on Mon 16 Dec 2019, 11:24 am

LondonTiger wrote:
RDW wrote:
I fear for some of the Glasgow players who have been flogged of late, some of them have put in back to back 80 minute shifts in Europe which is tough. Conversely I'm slightly concerned Edinburgh won't be fully battle hardened and cohesive given all the chopping and changing (who would ever think we could say that about Cockers!).

Sheesh, 12 months ago you were moaning about no rotation Run
That's actually why we've done so well against Glasgow over the last few years - we go into the 1872 with a settled team who are fully battle hardened having played every game in the season so fair. Problem is they then completely run out of steam in February/March.

Will be interesting to see how it goes this season with the tables turned - both in terms of 1872 results and our end of season run in.

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Post by EWT Spoons on Mon 16 Dec 2019, 11:44 am

I think Edinburgh will fully revert to 10 man rugby.  If I was Kinghorn, I'd be looking to bring a book, as he's unlikely to see much of the ball.

Assuming Edinburgh can keep it in the forwards and can put out a full strength pack, then I can't see how Glasgow can win this.  I know that's a risky statement, but Cockerill has absolutely nailed keeping Glasgow out of games.  Sadly it's not really a strategy for any kind of actual success, but seems to work in these games.


Last edited by EWT Spoons on Mon 16 Dec 2019, 2:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by RDW on Mon 16 Dec 2019, 1:43 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50800300


"When you think the next two games are Edinburgh, I feel sorry for Glasgow because I think they could get absolutely pumped.

I've always liked Peter Wright!  Laugh

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Post by BigGee on Mon 16 Dec 2019, 1:48 pm

Neither side seems to have been playing particularly well of late and Glasgow seem to have forgotten how to win at home.

It will be interesting to see what kind of rotation DR does over these two games, with another important league game in Italy the week after, followed by two more champs cup games. He can't play the same team each week, particularly the forwards.

Edinburgh will be able to go full metal jacket and we may well be a few players away from full strength. that might make the difference.

I agree with everyone else so far though, that this is unlikely to be a spectacle based on what we have seen from both teams so far this year.

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Post by tigertattie on Mon 16 Dec 2019, 6:11 pm

It’s an odd place to be in.

Glasgow have been in dire form of late. Edinburgh have been winning. It’s a total reverse of the last few years. Does this mean that this year Glasgow will get up for this game instead of Edinburgh?

It’s that or the age old saying by that garland fella, Edinburgh, while playing a bit poo, have forgotten how to lose. Meanwhile Glasgow have completely remembered how to lose.

Bru’s stones to the mast, Edinburgh to win both games. A tight affair at soapdodgetoun and a more expansive win at HQ
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Post by NeilyBroon on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 8:44 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50800300

Peter Wright doesn't mince his words. Getting Weir back wouldn't be a bad idea, and he'd be considerably cheaper than a lot of similar options. The question for me would be, does he actually want to move? He's got quite a nice gig at worcester and might be reticent to move back to a club that let him go in the first place.

I agree with wright on this one, glasgow could be hammered both games.
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Post by RDW on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 8:55 am

Weir is number 1 in a premiership team - would be a step down to become backup at Glasgow. Saying that, Worcester will always be in a relegation dogfight.

Family wise he might want to come home when his contract expires so you never know!

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Post by BigGee on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 9:06 am

Weir is contracted to Worcester for another year after this one and as Nelly says, it is going well for him down there, he is the starting FH and has risen to the challenge. He is not likely to be the short to medium term answer for Glasgow.

We do badly need another FH for next season though, so we really need to be casting the net around to see what is out there. Ross Thompson, who played U20s last year, seems to be going well for Ayr in the Super 6, I wonder if they might have a look at him, trouble is he might still take a bit of knocking into shape and we need someone almost immediately.

Are there any other decent prospects out there?

I watched the second half of the Watsonians v Boroughmuir game on sunday afternoon on SRTV and was pleasantly surprised at the standard, they put on an entertaining game as well, both sides really trying to play, despite a heavy old pitch.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 9:43 am

Maybe cam redpath will come up under the proviso he can still play for England? 😂
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Post by BigGee on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 9:58 am

NeilyBroon wrote:Maybe cam redpath will come up under the proviso he can still play for England? 😂

He has actually fallen away a fair bit this season, not starting for Sale any more after having a bit of a howler in the game against Glasgow. He looks what he is at the moment, an inexperienced young player with a lot of potential.

I don't see any England call ups happening for him any time soon, maybe that will get him to reset his thoughts on the matter. He is not really a FH these days though, been playing 12,13 and 15 for Sale. Maybe he would come to Glasgow as our new FB?


On the subject of exciting players with potential, anyone see the sevens over the weekend, we did a lot better this week, beat England in the pools and made the quarters, where predictably we lost to the ABs!

That Femi Soloforin looks some player, he has speed to burn and very skilful with it, he would have been a standout had he not dropped it over the line twice!


I wonder if the plan, assuming he commits to Scotland, would be to bring him into the 15s game? Maybe that was what we were offering him that England did not. Maybe he fancies a crack at the Olympics firstnext summer, then a switch after that. He could be very very good!

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Post by tigertattie on Tue 17 Dec 2019, 3:43 pm

Would be silly for meatball to return to Glasgow to play second string. He’s really enjoying himself at the English warriors.

Worcester aren’t a bad outfit and they are looking to grow. They currently sit 4th in the table which they may struggle to hold onto but they do genuinely feel they have a chance at a top 6 finish so they may not be in the relegation fight this year, or for a few years after also.
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Post by RDW on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 8:48 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50829564

Cockers loves a derby!

We'll travel down the M8 with a lot of motivation and hatred, in the nicest possible way, to go to Scotstoun to try and win."

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Post by BigGee on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 8:58 am

He loves to stir the pot does he not, I would hope that he is doing the Glasgow team talk for them, if you were a player, you would just love to shut him up!

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Post by RDW on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 8:59 am

He's done it every year to be fair Biggee so either the Glasgow players don't care or they're powerless to prevent it!

I'm going for the latter  Very Happy

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Post by BigGee on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 9:08 am

You lot really are very confident this year!

I guess we will see on Saturday, it will be nice for us to be the underdogs for the first time in living memory!

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Post by RDW on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 9:15 am

Ha I honestly don't know how it will go. Cockers says that Edinburgh are still underdogs which is probably true given the Scotstoun factor, but there's really not much in it.

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Post by BigGee on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 9:25 am

Truth is neither team is playing all that well.

Glasgow have certainly lost their killer instinct which has served us well over recent years but at least their has been a bit more bite in our recent games and we may at least becoming harder to beat, which is a decent first step in the right direction.

Edinburgh have learnt how to win but not to play well yet and have not played many hard games yet either.

At this stage of the season, we just need some confidence and j would settle for a 3-0 win by drop goal in the 4th minute of injury time!

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Post by RDW on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 9:30 am

I think a home win each and no major injuries would be a good result for Scottish rugby. We have the 3rd home leg this season to pick up the trophy.

I'd just like to see an entertaining game - they're usually dreadful.

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Post by EWT Spoons on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 10:32 am

I know this will come back to haunt me, but I really can't see Edinburgh losing these games.  We've not been playing well in the last couple of weeks, but probably for the first time in a while, I don't fear any of the glasgow players.  The only player that might concern me is G.Horne, but I think the pack will win it for Edinburgh.

However I would put good money on both The Shoe and Z.Fagerson (if he's fit and playing) being asked to have a 10 min rest during this game.

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Post by bsando on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 3:05 pm

Will many from here be attending either game?

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Post by RDW on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 3:09 pm

I usually go to the Murrayfield leg with friends and family but we're up north that weekend.

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Post by EWT Spoons on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 3:28 pm

bsando wrote:Will many from here be attending either game?

I'll be at the Murrayfield game

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Post by TJ on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 3:44 pm

I'll be at Murrayfield with my aging parents

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Post by RDW on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 3:49 pm

TJ wrote:I'll be at Murrayfield with my aging parents
Being Murrayfield it will be a nice pleasant quiet afternoon for them!

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Post by bsando on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 5:12 pm

Ah so a few then! I’m going with my dad for what will be my first Edinburgh home game. Hope there’s a good crowd!

On separate non Edinburgh Glasgow matter, Old Glory DC have signed the Beast for 2020!

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Post by RDW on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 5:17 pm

Holy crap that's a statement signing and a half! I wonder if the SRU have helped with the wages.

Given that our under 20s pumped them you can hardly say its a high standard.

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Post by bsando on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 5:29 pm

Probably why Glasgow can’t afford a new fullback laughing

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Post by tigertattie on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 8:41 pm

He was due to retire so it’s not going to be mega bucks he’s on. It’s more than likely a back door into the US for him. Maybe he’s got an eye on coaching there
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Post by BigGee on Thu 19 Dec 2019, 8:01 pm

3 week ban for Matt Fagerson, probably in line with the crime, so not playing in either derby game.

Backrow not an area of strength for us atm, so that does not help our cause. At least we get to see one of our other bsckrowers get a meaningful game. DR seems to have written most of them off!

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Post by BigGee on Fri 20 Dec 2019, 9:01 am

So, teams will be out around lunchtime today. I am hoping for something like this for Glasgow, I think we will go strong for this one, then maybe rotate a bit for the return leg:

1. Seuili
2. Brown
3. Fagerson Z
4. Gray
5. Cummings
6. Harley
7. Gibbins
8. Wilson
9. Price
10. Hastings
11. Niko
12. Johnson
13. Grigg
14. Steyn
15. Seymour

Bench

Keeble
Turner
Nicol - would be good to see him get on the pitch!
Flockhart
Gordon
Dobie
Jackson
Jones



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Post by RDW on Fri 20 Dec 2019, 12:18 pm

Duhan van der Merwe returns to make his 50th appearance for the club as Edinburgh Rugby make 10 changes for tomorrow evening’s 1872 Cup first leg against Glasgow Warriors at Scotstoun (Saturday 21 December, kick-off 5.45pm) – live on Premier Sports

The winger gets the nod in a reshuffled backline with Scotland internationalists Blair Kinghorn, Mark Bennett and Henry Pyrgos all named in the starting XV.

An all-new tight-five sees props Pierre Schoeman and Pietro Ceccarelli, hooker Stuart McInally and locks Grant Gilchrist and Ben Toolis return to the fray, while Magnus Bradbury starts at blindside flanker.


Ahead of the fixture, Head Coach Richard Cockerill, said: "If we get it right, we can beat any team on its day which we are slowly doing and proving.

“We’re going there to perform and try and take the points because that’s what we want and we want to beat our local rivals because rivalry is good. That little bit of tribalism is good and I want us to go there and show what a good team we are."

"It is going to be two good teams going against each other. Two good forward packs, two teams that drive very well. Two teams that, when they get into the opposition 22 generally come away with points. We’re looking forward to the challenge.”

A revamped back-three sees Kinghorn named at fullback with wingers Van der Merwe and Darcy Graham selected on opposite flanks.

Centre George Taylor – who this week penned a contract extension with the club – is paired with Bennett in midfield, as scrum-half Pygros returns to link-up with stand-off Simon Hickey at half-back.

Club captain McInally packs down alongside props Schoeman and Ceccarelli in the front-row, with Scotland lock duo Toolis and Gilchrist named in the second-row.

The inclusion of Bradbury at blindside flanker is the only alteration to an otherwise unchanged back-row as Hamish Watson and Viliame Mata complete the pack.



Edinburgh Rugby team to face Glasgow Warriors at Scotstoun in the Guinness PRO14
Saturday 21 December, kick-off 5.45pm - live on Premier Sports


15. Blair Kinghorn (83)



14. Darcy Graham (26)

13. Mark Bennett (29)

12. George Taylor (14)

11. Duhan van der Merwe (49)



10. Simon Hickey (27)

9. Henry Pyrgos (30)



1. Pierre Schoeman (32)

2. Stuart McInally (140) CAPTAIN

3. Pietro Ceccarelli (19)

4. Ben Toolis (115)

5. Grant Gilchrist (142)

6. Magnus Bradbury (71)

7. Hamish Watson (103)

8. Viliame Mata (65)



Replacements: 16. Mike Willemse (10) 17. Jamie Bhatti (8) 18 Simon Berghan (72) 19. Lewis Carmichael (39) 20. Jamie Ritchie (66) 21. Nic Groom (6) 22. Jaco van der Walt (47) 23. James Johnstone (45)

Players unavailable: Rory Darge, Chris Dean, Damien Hoyland, Rory Sutherland, Roan Frostwick, Luke Crosbie, John Barclay, Cameron Fenton, Matt Scott, Fraser McKenzie

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Post by EWT Spoons on Fri 20 Dec 2019, 12:53 pm

Has Nel played since the WC for us? I think he has, but he's not in the squad or listed as being unavailable. Wonder if he/the club are winding down his playing career, or if he's actually fallen down the pecking order. Can't complain about Ceccarelli starting, he's been superb so far this season.

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Post by RDW on Fri 20 Dec 2019, 12:56 pm

Nel played a couple of games recently.

Can only think they're managing his playing time - he's still likely to play a big part in the 6N.

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Post by BigGee on Fri 20 Dec 2019, 1:11 pm

Glasgow Warriors team to play Edinburgh in the Guinness PRO14, Saturday 21 December, kick-off 5.45pm, live on Premier Sports 1. You can follow the match in the Live Match Centre on glasgowwarriors.org. Glasgow Warriors appearances in brackets.
1. Aki Seiuli (3)
2. Fraser Brown (95)
3. Zander Fagerson (87)
4. Scott Cummings (64)
5. Jonny Gray (106)
6. Rob Harley (222)
7. Callum Gibbins (C) (42)
8. Ryan Wilson (160)
9. George Horne (48)
10. Adam Hastings (38)
11. Kyle Steyn (20)
12. Sam Johnson (57)
13. Huw Jones (28)
14. Tommy Seymour (135)
15. Ruaridh Jackson (157)
16. George Turner (40)
17. Oli Kebble (40)
18. Adam Nicol (14)
19. Adam Ashe (73)
20. Tom Gordon (11)
21. Ali Price (82)
22. Nick Grigg (63)
23. Niko Matawalu (120)
Not available due to injury: Siua Halanukonuka (calf), D’Arcy Rae (hand), Kiran McDonald (hip), Brandon Thomson (calf), Robbie Nairn (knee) and Pete Horne (head).

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Post by BigGee on Fri 20 Dec 2019, 1:19 pm

Probably about the best team we could have gotten out in the circumstances.

Pleased to see Shuggy getting another run out, it is about the first time I have not picked him In my team and then DR goes and does it anyway. I keep saying a run of games is what he needs, so hopefully he proves me right.

No DTH, who seems to have been sidelined since his horror show in the first leg against La Rochelle. Tommy S goes back onto the wing, his run outs at FB having been less than spectacular and Jacko comes in, he actually played reasonably well last time out against Leinster, when he was one of our better players (not many to choose from in that one).

I think it will be a bit of an arm wrestle up front, with two decent packs. If Edinburgh can manage to ship it wide (a big if) then we might well struggle with the pace of their back three, certainly not a phrase I would have been using a few years ago!

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 20 Dec 2019, 1:42 pm

This should be fairly close. I think Glasgow will shade this at home and then get a beating at the home of Scottish rugby. Looking forward to the Murrayfield game!

My only selection quibble for Edinburgh is not starting Ritchie. I'd have him over Bradbury or Mata. We need him to slow Glasgow down, and G Horne in particular. Bradbury will have to get his hands dirty in the ruck, because Rob Harley certainly will.

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Post by RDW on Fri 20 Dec 2019, 1:56 pm

I think the selection of that back row points to less than subtle tactics from Cockers.

Which comes as no surprise!

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Post by jimbopip on Fri 20 Dec 2019, 4:13 pm

15. Blair Kinghorn (83) Rhuaridh Advantage Luvvies, mind our 15 can pass the ball.



14. Darcy Graham (26) TS Old Fox against the young wide boy. Adv Luvvies

13. Mark Bennett (29) Not A Pony Adv Luvvies. Unless Shug wakens up, suddenly

12. George Taylor (14) Smiling Sam Adv Glasgow, finally

11. Duhan van der Merwe (49) Seaman. Seismic collisions forecast ,Seaman to come out on top



10. Simon Hickey (27) Haircut Adv Glasgow by a Royal Mile

9. Henry Pyrgos (30) Hornito No contest!

1. Pierre Schoeman (32) Ragnar Ragnar, all day long

2. Stuart McInally (140) CAPTAIN Chuckles Close, but Chuckles

3. Pietro Ceccarelli (19) Sue Ellen Adv Glasgow

4. Ben Toolis (115) Cummings Cummings will cement his place in the 6N squad

5. Grant Gilchrist (142) Ickle Jonny Jonny will do what he does; tackle. GG will do fecc all as usual.

6. Magnus Bradbury (71) Big Bad Bradbury carries better, Big Bad is nastier.

7. Hamish Watson (103) Cully Hamish all day.

8. Viliame Mata (65) Batman Hmm, Mata...unless he gets smothered at the breakdown.

Front five Glasgow
Back row Luvvies
half backs Glasgow
Centres evenish
Back three Luvvies
Bench Glasgow

If Glasgow can mess up the breakdown and tie in Hamish and Mata, or they both get carded for thumping Batman, then it's Glasgow all day.

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Post by RDW on Fri 20 Dec 2019, 4:15 pm

Front 5 Glasgow?? Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh

Also 'not a winger' Steyn over one of the most dangerous wingers in the league?

Sure.

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Post by jimbopip on Fri 20 Dec 2019, 4:36 pm

VDM is, like all wingers, only dangerous if he gets the ball. Pie Crust and Hickey? Like that wise old man RDW said,

"I think the selection of that back row points to less than subtle tactics from Cockers."

Unless VDM catches one of the 90 856 box kicks Henners will hoof hopefully he may be rather underemployed.

The Glasgow front five is a lot better than you seem to think. We'll see.



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Post by tigertattie on Fri 20 Dec 2019, 4:42 pm

RDW wrote:Front 5 Glasgow?? Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh

Also 'not a winger' Steyn over one of the most dangerous wingers in the league?

Sure.

Don’t waste your breath Flounder. There’s genuinely Glasgow supporters out there who think that Glasgow can compete with Edinburgh up front. There’s also some that think Glasgow can win the game.

Shoe will utterly school Ragnar in the scrum.

The Edinburgh 2nd row will feast on the lack of ball carrying from Glasgow’s 2nd row.

I fear that these games could put back Cummings development. He’s been coming on nicely but he’s going to be up against an effective pack here and it could dent his confidence.

I don’t think Edinburgh will spank Glasgow our in the Wild West, but we will win the game. Then an utter man shaming will be handed out at HQ
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Post by RDW on Fri 20 Dec 2019, 4:46 pm

That's some bold predictions tattie!

I just like noising up Jimbo Hug

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Post by tigertattie on Fri 20 Dec 2019, 4:58 pm

It’s just the natural order being restored Flounder.

Edinburgh will go back to being the team that plays for playoff positions and Europe honours while Glasgow languish around the bottom of the table wondering why Celtic and Rangers fans don’t follow rugby
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Post by RDW on Fri 20 Dec 2019, 5:00 pm

tigertattie wrote:It’s just the natural order being restored Flounder.

Edinburgh will go back to being the team that plays for playoff positions
and Europe honours while Glasgow languish around the bottom of the table wondering why Celtic and Rangers fans don’t follow rugby

When have we ever been there??

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Post by jimbopip on Fri 20 Dec 2019, 5:04 pm

RDW wrote:That's some bold predictions tattie!

I just like noising up Jimbo Hug

I've lived with MrsPip for thirty-odd years, some of them very odd. You don't even register as a high pitched squeak never mind a noise.

Tigertattie is, as ever, wide of the mark. Our pack fronted up to one of the best French club sides and were the better over 160 minutes. They also were comfortably on top of Execeterr for the first 40 at Sandy Park, let's ignore the second half. Crying or Very sad

If I was a betting man I'd bet on at least two back rows having a ten minute rest tomorrow. Big Bad, Batman and a niggly Kiwi furious can you imagine a more irritating trio? I think it'll be a slugfest and your back three will be on starvation rations. If it's tight late on, our bench is better and Cockers won't make changes until it's too late.

Mind you....Mbawsa versus the Mullet boxing Glasgow vs Edinburgh 1872 part 1 1347041234 Glasgow vs Edinburgh 1872 part 1 1347041234 Glasgow vs Edinburgh 1872 part 1 1347041234

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Post by tigertattie on Fri 20 Dec 2019, 6:54 pm

RDW wrote:
tigertattie wrote:It’s just the natural order being restored Flounder.

Edinburgh will go back to being the team that plays for playoff positions
and Europe honours while Glasgow languish around the bottom of the table wondering why Celtic and Rangers fans don’t follow rugby

When have we ever been there??

Magners league.

We used to slog it out with Leinster
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