PGA Tour: Stats and Useless Trivia / SONY Open in Hawaii: Notes from the Ballwasher

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Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 09 Jan 2020, 4:19 pm

1).Let's start with the Useless Trivia:

You all know that the top five in most Premier League appearances in the decade 2010 thru 2019 were:
Henderson
Milner
Foster
De Gea
David Silva

2).Who played the most official PGA Tour events (excluding silly season stuff like the shoot-out & Tiger benefit)?
TOP FIVE svp

Tricky, my first guess at five yielded only two, the Top Two as it happens; one who I thought must be a banker fell short and I had to give up on the final pair!

3).Along the same lines, the pgatour.com site offered these nuggets from ShotLink:

https://www.pgatour.com/best-of-decade/2019/12/01/stats-of-the-decade-tiger-woods-dustin-johnson-rory-mcilroy.html
Purely fyi!

4).Did Justin Thomas win last week's Tournament of Champions or did Schauffele and Reed lose it? 'Course Thomas won it before he lost it and then won it again.
Regardless, Justin Thomas is back as a force on Tour and goes again this week. Curiously (or not?), his record on the US mainland in full field events is somewhat less stellar:
Won 12, of which:
4 were won in Asia at limited field events (2 x CIMB, 2 x CJ Cup)
3 in Hawaii (2 x TOC limited field, 1 x SONY - full field)
1 x Major (PGA - obviously full field)
1 x Dell Technologies (Top 100)
1 x Honda (full field)
1 x WGC-Bridgestone, (Great win, but still limited field)
1 x BMW (Great win, but only Top 70)

5).Didn't mention it last week, but Thomas was as impressive in the President's Cup as he was in Paris.
And Cantlay & Schauffele also looked really strong - three bankers I would think to form the backbone for Steve Stricker at Whistling Straits.
And this is what Stricker's team looks like:
Koepka, DJ, Woodland, Schauffele, Tiger, JT, Cantlay, Kuchar, Simpson, Kis, Finau, Reed. Early days but reckon he'd be happy to go to the first tee with that lot.

6).Thomas plays again this week at Waialae CC - not a bad field but perhaps a touch weaker than recently: Thomas, Reed, Simpson, Hideki and last year's winner Kuchar are the highest ranked.
European interest: Not much, Noren, Knox, McDowell lead the way, all in need of strong results. Talking of which: Where's Luke Donald? He's played well in the past, though not recently.

7).The web.com Tour is now the Korn Ferry Tour and starts its season this weekend in the Bahamas.
Mildly interesting entrants include Camilo Villegas and two one-time college hotshots, who both distinguished themselves at The Open at St.Andrews: Niebrugge (T6) and Schniederjans (T12).
(Tommy Gainey believed to be the only player in the field out on bail for "solicitation" in a prostitution sting. Honest guv: Polk County Sherriff Judd said, Gainey was in town for a charity golf event. "He didn't make it. He was a scratch." Two Gloves forgetting that charity begins at home.)

8).And the Champions Tour kicks off next weekend in Hawaii - Plenty of old lags will find their Senior Tour annuity is devalued if a strong contingent of the newly fifty start playing.

9).Off to California and the West Coast Swing for the leading pros next week for five events:
The Bob Hope (Desert Classic?) is reinvented as "The American Express"; not surprising DeChambeau is playing away . . . . .
San Diego's Farmer's Insurance action at Torrey Pines. You can tell this event is important as Jason Day (remember him?) is climbing off his sick bed to play.
Phoenix
Pebble Beach
Riviera . . . . . .
. . . . and then over the wall, the strongest, bestest wall, to Mexico City and the WGC-Mexico, before heading to Florida.

10).How ya doing with the trivia?
Answers please.
EDIT: If 606 alumnus "RoderickSlyme" is out there, you'll get one of these Rodders . . . . . . . . .

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Post by I'm never wrong on Thu 09 Jan 2020, 7:11 pm

Phil Mickelson?

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Post by I'm never wrong on Thu 09 Jan 2020, 7:12 pm

DL III? Jim Furyk?

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Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 09 Jan 2020, 7:25 pm

No, No, No.

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Post by I'm never wrong on Thu 09 Jan 2020, 7:34 pm

Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad

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Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 09 Jan 2020, 7:41 pm

I'm never wrong wrote:Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad

Yup, The absolute top players pursue more of a galactico schedule than this lot - and no perennial globe-trotters either!

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Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 09 Jan 2020, 9:16 pm

Jerry Kelly leading the SONY Open as the morning "wave" enters the home straight of Round 1. He's 53!
What's happened to all the young whippersnappers we hear so much about?

Pretty windy in Honolulu, scores way, way higher than usual.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 09 Jan 2020, 11:15 pm

OK, Jerry Kelly feeling his age.
Whippersnappers to the fore, Morikawa especially with a 3-shot early lead.

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Post by McLaren on Fri 10 Jan 2020, 12:32 am

For trivia

Kevin Na
DJ
Sabbatini
JB Holmes
Harrington


Stats of the Decade seem to highlight just how good Rory is, just in case we didn't know. But interesting read in general.

On JT not winning many full field events, apparently Tiger hasn't won one since 2013.
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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 10 Jan 2020, 12:52 am

Mac,

Lots of fine perceptions there, but none of your Trivia Five make the cut.

I thought Kevin Na was a good shout but hadn't realised he pretty much missed a season in 2013.

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Post by McLaren on Fri 10 Jan 2020, 1:16 am

It was hard to think of players who would have played the whole decade.

There would also be Rory, Adam Scott, Rose etc but they tend to have limited schedules.

I also thought about Stricker, but again he didn't play a packed schedule at the best of times.
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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 10 Jan 2020, 1:42 am

Bad news.
Pete Dye'd.

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Post by McLaren on Fri 10 Jan 2020, 2:36 am

Fatprick Reed Rolling Eyes

https://golfweek.com/2020/01/09/patrick-reed-lawyer-demanded-brandel-chamblee-stop-talking-cheating/
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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 10 Jan 2020, 2:53 am

You should read Rick Reilly's book, "Commander in Cheat: How Golf Explains Trump", described by wiki as "An on-the-ground and behind-the-scenes look at Donald Trump's ethics deficit on and off the course.
Makes Patrick Reed look like a choirboy, doesn't even have the blood of 176 airline passengers on his hands.

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Post by pedro on Fri 10 Jan 2020, 10:01 am

It must be veteran journeymen who play almost entirely on the PGA Tour. My guess would be:
CH3
Kuch
Gay
Bradley
Cink

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Post by McLaren on Fri 10 Jan 2020, 10:13 am

CH3 and Kuch must be correct?


Kwini

I am not asking for Tiger like Major winning or even Koepka style but it would be nice if a European major winner didn't fall of the cliff of performance. Molinari at least kept it going until amen corner the next year.

JT and Speith have had dips as well of course but in JT's case at least things are well and truly back on track.
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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 10 Jan 2020, 10:23 am

pedro wrote:It must be veteran journeymen who play almost entirely on the PGA Tour. My guess would be:
CH3
Kuch
Gay
Bradley
Cink


Charlie Howell is correct.
Cink & Gay have spent too much time on the injured list. Bradley (didn't come on Tour until 2011) and Kuchar are about 25 tournaments off the pace.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 10 Jan 2020, 11:02 am

McLaren wrote:CH3 and Kuch must be correct?


Kwini

I am not asking for Tiger like Major winning or even Koepka style but it would be nice if a European major winner didn't fall of the cliff of performance. Molinari at least kept it going until amen corner the next year.

JT and Speith have had dips as well of course but in JT's case at least things are well and truly back on track.


Well, of those you mentioned, even at the time we might have expected Clarke to take a decade-long victory lap, and Henrik is playing OK, knocking on a bit, but hopefully will snowball his Bahamas moneygrab into a decent year. And perhaps Willett will continue to train on from an excellent 2019. Sergio? Who can tell? No more majors if many on here have anything to do about it, but perhaps turning 40 yesterday will inspire him?
Decent round from Lowry in Hong Kong today and, last time I checked, he has the longest current major-winning streak. Hope he extends it!

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Post by Shotrock on Fri 10 Jan 2020, 2:57 pm

Re: Trump. Never understood the motivation behind a vanity handicap.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 10 Jan 2020, 3:07 pm

I think you meant "vanity president" . . . . . .

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Post by super_realist on Fri 10 Jan 2020, 3:09 pm

Anyone who has ever seen Trump swing can tell he's not the handicap he claims. Bit like Corbyn, his lies fool nobody.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 10 Jan 2020, 11:35 pm

Ref: Note 6). Above.

Justin Thomas on his bike, but Knox (65), Noren and McDowell (and Norlander & Straka) all shooting in the 60's, all doing themselves some good, all around for the weekend.

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Post by pedro on Fri 10 Jan 2020, 11:47 pm

Zach, Campbell?

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Post by kwinigolfer on Sat 11 Jan 2020, 12:47 am

pedro wrote:Zach, Campbell?

Nope! Nope!


I'm surprised that none of our American friends have chimed in . . . . . . . . .

One clue could be:
They've only won SIX tournaments between the four of them.
3 at one place.
2 at another.
1 at another.

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Post by robopz on Sat 11 Jan 2020, 12:34 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:
pedro wrote:Zach, Campbell?

Nope! Nope!


I'm surprised that none of our American friends have chimed in . . . . . . . . .

One clue could be:
They've only won SIX tournaments between the four of them.
3 at one place.
2 at another.
1 at another.
I'm not going to answer, because I have an unfair advantage... But... I got the top 2... and likely would have guessed another, for obvious reasons... :-)

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Post by kwinigolfer on Sat 11 Jan 2020, 12:48 pm

robo  OK

Yup, And I would have thought another with similar initials would have been a banker - believe he might be 6th, tho' not 100% on that.

Back in the "Fall Series" days, or whatever it was called, Rodders and I used to marvel at the escapology of your mate in resurrecting his card late in the season when all seemed lost for him . . . . . . . . seemed like he did that 2 or 3 times. A good career always seemingly under the radar.


PS: Mac, Your Sabbatini guess was pretty close, probably a top tenner!

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Post by I'm never wrong on Sat 11 Jan 2020, 1:25 pm

Just read a stat that Sergio has the longest current streak of playing in the Majors. Does that transfer over to Kwini's question?

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Post by McLaren on Sat 11 Jan 2020, 2:05 pm

So all we have confirmed so far is CH3

With

Na
Kuch
Stricker
Campbell (Michael or chad?)
Gay
Bradley
Cink
DJ
Sabbatini
JB
Harrington
Furyk
Mickelson
DL3

Ruled out.



Ok, if I am allowed a further guess I will go with

Mahan
Chad (if not already guessed)
Sneds
Jimmy Walker
David Toms (although no idea what his schedule has been this decade)
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Post by kwinigolfer on Sat 11 Jan 2020, 2:11 pm

Nah,
Firing blanks there Mac.
Especially with the earlier clue from which one could determine that these four pros only have 6 wins between them!

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Post by robopz on Sat 11 Jan 2020, 2:55 pm

Kwini... Again without revealing the answer... CH3 was easy... And one of the others should be relatively easy for folks who follow the PGA tour a lot (I'm surprised he hadn't been named yet)... And I could see some people getting a third one... But two of them are really, really hard to get.  Once revealed, I think a lot of people are going to go "OK, I kinda know who that is, but he played that much?" One of them really surprised me... The other I had an inside track on...

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Post by I'm never wrong on Sat 11 Jan 2020, 4:28 pm

Charley Hoffman? Marc Leishman?

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Post by kwinigolfer on Sat 11 Jan 2020, 4:38 pm

I'm never wrong wrote:Charley Hoffman? Marc Leishman?

I thought Hoffman was a dead cert, but four tournaments too few. And Leish is a good shout but just doesn't play enough events per year - about twenty-ish short.

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Post by robopz on Sat 11 Jan 2020, 8:01 pm

Kwini... see your PMs... If Hoffman is 4 short... I must have a different number or different 4...

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Post by McLaren on Sat 11 Jan 2020, 8:03 pm

Kwini

I am not going to lie, other than Tiger I couldn't give you any pros PGAT wins of the top of my head.

Ok

Poulter
Ryan Moore
Pat Perez
Lucas Glover
Ben Crane

The criteria being old and not having loads of PGAT wins, as far as I can remember.
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Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 12 Jan 2020, 4:13 pm

OK Mac,
I'm not going to lie either.
None of those five fit the bill.


Should be a good finish in Hawaii; Brendan Steele has a 3-stroke lead but hasn't had a Tour Top Ten for almost two years. And today's SA Open winner, Branden Grace, hadn't had a US Tour Top Ten for almost a year so perhaps Steele will take encouragement from that.

Meanwhile, Knox, Noren & McDowell could do themselves a big favour by posting good finishes today; especially Noren who only has "conditional status" on Tour.
EDIT: Should have added Norlander to that list, T11 after Round 3 as he looks to establish himself as a consistent Tour player.


Last edited by kwinigolfer on Sun 12 Jan 2020, 9:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 12 Jan 2020, 6:05 pm

Interesting news with reports of the PGA Tour's "Byron Nelson" moving away from Trinity Forest, citing poor fields, poor attendance and, bizarrely, poor weather.
Not sure that's all the course's fault, but it seems the players never embraced the Coore/Crenshaw design. Sure the weather will be better ten miles down the road . . . . .

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Post by BlueCoverman on Sun 12 Jan 2020, 9:42 pm

kwini trivia

Alex Cejka, JJ Henry, Bo Van Pelt ?

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Post by robopz on Sun 12 Jan 2020, 9:51 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Interesting news with reports of the PGA Tour's "Byron Nelson" moving away from Trinity Forest, citing poor fields, poor attendance and, bizarrely, poor weather.
Not sure that's all the course's fault, but it seems the players never embraced the Coore/Crenshaw design. Sure the weather will be better ten miles down the road . . . . .
 I'm a little surprised, but not much. It was a WRONG MOVE to Trinity Forest to begin with... albeit for the right reasons.

Moving from TPC Four Seasons was NOT a bad idea, it's a pretty lousy course by Tour standards. But the entire Trinity Forest thing turned out to be nothing like expected. It was a "linksy looking" course totally inappropriate for they type of golf that represents the area (more piney woods to prairie). Trinity Forest is actually a good course VERY good actually, but it needs to be in a place where it fits in, like Galveston or Corpus Christi... NOT DFW area.

And the location of Trinity Forest was AWFUL. About the worst place in the entire DFW area for a Tour venue. Reclaiming an old landfill was a good "environmentally responsible" concept... but there was NO master plan to rejuvenate the entire area ala it's supposed model, Eastlake in Atlanta (Tour Championship). And there was inadequate infrastructure and logistics to handle the tournament, both internally and externally.

And the problem with the weather, wasn't so much the weather itself, it was the venues inability to handle it. When it rained, there was nowhere to go except for the cart paths for everybody. Fans, support staff, everybody. Everything off the cart paths would turn to mush or go underwater.

But the worst part is attendance has been awful (bad location) and it's lost a lot of it's secondary sponsors who haven't embraced the new venue. Salesmanship Club (who runs the event) says the Charity returns have been HALF of their prior level before the move.

Official announcement about the move away from Trinity Forest is supposed to come today... and apparently they have no place for next year's tournament set in stone. My guess is they are likely to eventually end up at the new PGA Headquarters in Frisco... but that won't be available for another 3-4 years. That might mean back to TPC Four Seasons for the interim. I dunno...

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Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 12 Jan 2020, 9:59 pm

Well done Blue!

JJ Henry is second on the list.

I also thought Cejka had a shout but he falls short, missed the best part of two seasons a few years ago..
And Van Pelt has been out for way too long to have a chance . . . . . . back from injury now, but struggling.

So: We have Charlie Howell, who'll no doubt continue to accumulate.
And JJ Henry who seems to be reaching the end of his career.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 12 Jan 2020, 10:14 pm

robo,
Imagine the Salesmanship club rules the roost. They used to be famous for the quality of "celebrities" in their Pro-Am when I lived there, beside themselves when Tom Landry made a hole-in-one (at Preston Trail).
Later, when I worked in Las Colinas (in the complex where the Mustangs are), we had a telescope in the office to check out the golf, though I think that was mainly Cottonwood Valley.

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Post by McLaren on Sun 12 Jan 2020, 10:58 pm

Ben Curtis?

Heard him mentioned on a podcast (past winner and RstG's) and thought he might be a good shout for Kwinis trivia.
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Post by robopz on Sun 12 Jan 2020, 11:02 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:robo,
Imagine the Salesmanship club rules the roost. They used to be famous for the quality of "celebrities" in their Pro-Am when I lived there, beside themselves when Tom Landry made a hole-in-one (at Preston Trail).
Later, when I worked in Las Colinas (in the complex where the Mustangs are), we had a telescope in the office to check out the golf, though I think that was mainly Cottonwood Valley.
I know exactly where you are talking about. And yes that would have been Cottonwood. Interesting thing on this one, it wasn't the Salesmanship Club that was the impetus behind this. It was actually the Tour. Nobody was particularly happy, but the SC thought they were stuck with a long term situation. But it is the tour that actually controls the rights and venue agreements, and they pulled the plug on Trinity Forest.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 12 Jan 2020, 11:05 pm

You're a good sport, Mac, but no, not on my watch; blimey, he's hardly played in the last few years.
Ben Curtis? No.

Another clue?
No more Ryder Cup or President's Cup team members and, especially for Mac, no Major winners.
Just three wins between the last three contenders.

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Post by pedro on Mon 13 Jan 2020, 12:46 am

Stroud, Wagner, Barnes?

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Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 13 Jan 2020, 1:04 am

pedro wrote:Stroud, Wagner, Barnes?


Woo Hoo!!!

I'd never have picked Chris Stroud in a month of Sundays - clap clap clap

Johnson Wagner has hit the best "trouble" shot I've ever seen from a pro, and Ricky Barnes is a fun guy to follow, but neither make this cut.

Howell, Henry & Stroud down, two to go . . . . . . . . . . .

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Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 13 Jan 2020, 4:36 pm

A win late last evening for Aussie Cameron Smith in the first play-off hole with Brendan Steele.
About time Smith won again, will he kick on and become a frequent winner or is he a one-win-every-four-years type? Regardless, he gets into The Masters after narrowly missing out at the Dec 31st owgr cut-off. The bigger-than-usual Masters field keeps getting bigger.

Excellent final round from Graeme McDowell; he's already exempt for next year, but now he's also at least 60% of his way to the FedEx Play-Offs.
And good from Norlander (T9) as well; he's not far behind McDowell, already about 55% of his way to earning his ticket for the 2020/2021 season.
Pretty much a wasted weekend though from Knox & Noren; they're on track to keep their cards but have plenty of work to do, especially Noren as he will presumably find opportunities shrinking as the season moves along.

Not a great field for this week's "American Express" tournament but Casey & Laird join Knox, Noren & Norlander. EDIT: Molinari too.


Last edited by kwinigolfer on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 2:35 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by robopz on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 2:05 am

kwinigolfer wrote:Not a great field for this week's "American Express" tournament but Casey & Laird join Knox, Noren & Norlander.
PGA Tour field strengths are down the first three weeks of the new year... & with probably over 95% of the field in for Torrey Pines, its looking down 4-6 points from last year's 60 as well.  The 3 ET Middle East events, along with Hong Kong and Singapore  opening up their checkbooks to siphon off more than usual top name PGAT talent appears to be the main cause.  I think players figuring out the new schedule better in its 2nd year it's a rest of it. Fields stronger that expected this past fall as players seem to be spreading out their schedules more. Things should normalize by the time they get to Pebble, WMPO and Riviera.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 2:41 am

Don't you think the very late Presidents Cup date might also have had something to do with it?
Those who then played Kapalua have to take a break sometime. Perhaps the extra-event rule might have influenced "Fall" fields as well, with a perverse knock-on effect.
I'm looking forward to San Diego regardless! Always seems to produce a challenging, competitive weekend on a top class Tour lay-out.


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Post by robopz on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 3:12 am

Rory, Tiger & Rahm at Torrey should be enough to catch anybody's interest...

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Post by Shotrock on Tue 14 Jan 2020, 7:26 pm

Anyone want to bet this will be effectively as toothless as a United Nations Resolution ... https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/28483819/think-fast-pga-institute-pace-play-policy-beginning-april

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