PGA Tour: "The American Express": Notes from the Ballwasher

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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 17 Jan 2020 - 2:00

1).American Express, with their host Phil Mickelson, are hoping to restore the "Desert" stop to, if not former glory as the "Bob Hope", at least to a semblance of significance, but it's a comparitively weak field that is underway now under ideal Californian conditions. Expect low scores this week!

2).Ironic that this event takes place during the week the Tour revealed its new pace of play rules. But not all golfers are slow, relatively few in fact, but who are the real Expresses, not necessarily American, on Tour? Who gets the ball in the air before the TV director has a chance to switch to him following the previous shot?
I need some help here, who are the really quick players? In previous generations Lanny Wadkins was legendary for the speed of his play, though I'd suggest John Huston was at least as quick.

We know who the real dawdlers are, and have been. So let's think of some who may be the exception who might prove the rule?
More help please: One of the young Italians is a real speed merchant - is it Pavan or Parratore?

3).Some real quickies:
Tommy Gainey won the first Korn Ferry tournament, in the Bahamas, this week - some good news for Two Gloves.
One or two stalwarts of years gone by played under the "rehab" clause - Villegas missed the cut badly, whilst Sean O'Hair finished in the top ten. Both golfers who are too young not to bounce back if they have the good health and will to do it.

4).Ernie Els plays his first tournament on the Champions Tour this week, in Hawaii - he seems pretty committed to playing a full schedule.

5).Last week we mentioned pros who have played most tournaments in the 2010-decade.
We learned that Charlie Howell (282) and JJ Henry (275) led the way, with Chris Stroud (269) close behind. But you still haven't come up with the other two (also at 269) who make up the Top five. (I believe Hoffman was 6th at 265.)
Clue: They're both playing this week!

6).Mickelson (621) and Furyk 615) are the only under-50 active players on Tour with 600 events played in their career with not many still playing who are likely to reach that mark. Stewart Cink (584) and Brian Gay (585) are the most likely, but younger guys like Howell (559) and Sabbatini (531) will surely get there.
Of those under 40, I believe Baddeley (428) and Na (401) lead the way.

7).Excellent T4 result for McDowell at the SONY Open last week in Hawaii. Europeans in this week's field include Casey & Molinari, and also Bjerregard, Knox, Laird, Noren and Norlander.

8).And next week they're off to San Diego for the Farmers Insurance action at Torrey Pines - Rory, Koepka and Woods lead that field.
Next stop Phoenix, followed by Pebble Beach, Riviera and then Mexico City for the next WGC

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Post by pedro on Fri 17 Jan 2020 - 6:42

Quiz: Danny Lee?

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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 17 Jan 2020 - 7:36

pedro wrote:Quiz: Danny Lee?


You know what?
I would've thought that was a great guess (as it was one of mine), but he didn't clock in, in earnest anyway, until 2012.


And then there's Si Woo Kim: A players Champion a couple of years ago, now shooting 87 (and exiting stage left) on one of the easiest courses he'll (try to) play all year. Tailed off by nine strokes.

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Post by McLaren on Fri 17 Jan 2020 - 17:10

1) Wasn't this the event that used to be over 5 rounds? Think how much of a marathon that would feel now?

2) I am always a bit skeptical over who is considered a fast or slow player. It all seems to come from what the commentators say which is odd because they don't see the players move between shots or holes, or how quickly they get themselves ready to hit. Based on commentators wisdom Rory apparently pulls the trigger pretty quickly and Na is pretty slow. But I have never noticed Na actually being any slower than anyone else. The obviously slow players to me are Stenson, Braddley, Speith, DCB, Rose (seems a bit laborious when deciding shots). Not the worst offenders but Willett, JT, Matsuyama, Kuchar and Mickelson all seem to engage in a bit too much chat with the caddie.

Koepka, Lowry, Tiger, Rory, Westwood and DJ are all players I perceive to be getting on with it, but again this is all from TV coverage so it is hard to tell.

5) I have had a look through the field for this week and there are several guys that could fit the bill. Given that I have sort of looked stuff up I will take only one guess, and go for Kevin Streelman.

7) The award for a career still going long after I thought it would certainly goes to Gmac, qualifying for the open last year was excellent and now he has gone a long way to a decent finish this year.



Have you seen the pretty odd story going around that the PGAT have reprimanded Cameron Smith for his comments on Fatpricks cheating? The level of protectionism (I think the PGAT strongly defended Reed against cheating accusations at the time) the PGAT are giving Reed over this is kinda astonishing.

You would have thought calling out cheating when you see it was part of protecting your fellow pro's but it seems the these guys can do no wrong image is more important to the PGAT marketing division.
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Post by super_realist on Fri 17 Jan 2020 - 17:14

Are you joking Mac? I've seen Na take about 15 practice strokes, take an age over putts and change club several times before a shout. He is absolutely chronic.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 17 Jan 2020 - 17:57

Mac,
Yes! Streelman is one.
Followed him a couple of years ago as he seems to come across well on TV, but pretty much defined "boring" as a player to watch.
One to go!

And haven't read the Cameron Smith thing - I'll check that out, but would have thought interference by the Tour was way out of order. And only underlines the fact that the President's Cup is a nonsense unless both teams have some degree of autonomy. Good lord!

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Post by super_realist on Fri 17 Jan 2020 - 18:03

Ken Duke?

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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 17 Jan 2020 - 18:19

super_realist wrote:Ken Duke?

No.
super, the last man is playing in this week's Amex event.

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Post by GPB on Fri 17 Jan 2020 - 23:34

I think the fifth player you are looking for is Cameron Tringale

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Post by kwinigolfer on Sat 18 Jan 2020 - 0:26

GPB wrote:I think the fifth player you are looking for is Cameron Tringale

I thought that would be the first bloke you thought of! Praise the lord. Seems to be bouncing back from whatever messed up his 2018 season.
Yup: Howell, Henry, Streelman, Stroud, Tringale.

clap Ale

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Post by GPB on Sat 18 Jan 2020 - 2:35

I haven't been online much since the beginning of the year. Got a bad sinus infection (and a kidney stone scare) and between that and the meds, I have been sleeping (or trying to sleep) about 16 hours a day. Haven't really

Appear to be on the mend now.

Hoping Spieth gets caught with a hooker, maybe it will turn his game around/

Cam Smith got threatened with fines from the PGATour if he continues to call Patrick Reed a cheater.

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Post by super_realist on Sat 18 Jan 2020 - 2:46

GPB wrote:I haven't been online much since the beginning of the year.  Got a bad sinus infection (and a kidney stone scare) and between that and the meds, I have been sleeping (or trying to sleep) about 16 hours a day.  Haven't really

Appear to be on the mend now.

Hoping Spieth gets caught with a hooker, maybe it will turn his game around/

Cam Smith got threatened with fines from the PGATour if he continues to call Patrick Reed a cheater.

Well he's religious, so there's every chance, but more likely to be male than female given the record of the religious.

Get well soon GPB.

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Post by GPB on Sat 18 Jan 2020 - 3:05

There you go again. Reading (and believing) those propaganda sites despite all the evidence to the contrary.

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Post by super_realist on Sat 18 Jan 2020 - 3:21

GPB wrote:There you go again.  Reading (and believing) those propaganda sites despite all the evidence to the contrary.

It's not propaganda that he's religious and a Christian. It's a self admitted fact from him. I didn't say he's gay either, although it's common for American religious people to be caught out with rent boys.

If he got busted, I imagine it would be like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZmHC75FDqQ

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Post by GPB on Sat 18 Jan 2020 - 3:54

Spieth is no more religious than Rory and Sergio and many of the Europeans. I asked you for sources before and all you could site was religious propaganda sites. (why you have those bookmarked is a mystery to me)

"Rent Boys". ???? You sure to have a thing for confirmation bias! You are not h0m0phobic, are you?

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Post by super_realist on Sat 18 Jan 2020 - 4:02

I've given them before. There's a video of Spieth saying he would trust god over science. Can't imagine Rory being that stupid.

Rent boy isn't a homophobic term, would you prefer I used the term "Male sex worker"?

I always preface Spieth with Rev because it winds you up so much.

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Post by GPB on Sat 18 Jan 2020 - 6:04

super_realist wrote:

I always preface Spieth with Rev because it winds you up so much.

So In other Words, you are a troll.

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Post by pedro on Sat 18 Jan 2020 - 6:29

Well, Spieth has been hooking it lately..

Get well soon GPB.

PS. Wouldn’t have guessed for Tringale.

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Post by super_realist on Sat 18 Jan 2020 - 15:38

GPB wrote:
super_realist wrote:

I always preface Spieth with Rev because it winds you up so much.

So In other Words, you are a troll.

Shame they didn't give you a sense of humour  or remove your seriousness when they prescribed your medicines. Stop being so "triggered" as you Yanks say, or I'll have to conclude that your laughable sensitivity on the issue means you are also a bible basher.

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Post by beninho on Sat 18 Jan 2020 - 15:51

I just think we have to accept, realist is a strange one, and his constant use of rev Gordon Spieth, for whatever reasons, makes him happy. In life some people are weird.

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Post by super_realist on Sat 18 Jan 2020 - 18:05

beninho wrote:I just think we have to accept, realist is a strange one, and his constant use of rev Gordon Spieth, for whatever reasons, makes him happy. In life  some people are weird.

Who's more weird, someone who has a light hearted name for a person, or someone who rages constantly with fake outrage whenever that name is mentioned?

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Post by McLaren on Sat 18 Jan 2020 - 21:07

super_realist wrote:it's common for American religious people to be caught out with rent boys.

I am sure it has happened by what is your justification for saying "common"?
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Post by super_realist on Sat 18 Jan 2020 - 21:14

McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:it's common for American religious people to be caught out with rent boys.

I am sure it has happened by what is your justification for saying "common"?

Ted Haggard, George Rekers, Steve Wiles, Mark Foley, Glenn Murphy Junior, could go on Mac. Just takes a little Google. Usually people who have publically been anti gay.

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Post by robopz on Sat 18 Jan 2020 - 21:39

From my experience... Those who go out of their way the most to criticize others for silly meaningless reasons (religion, clothes, family, friends, body type, nationality, mannerisms, etc...).... Are more than likely to be the ones with the the highest self-esteem issues of their own. Just sayin'

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Post by robopz on Sat 18 Jan 2020 - 21:40

Good looking leaderboards in BOTH deserts... OK OK

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Post by kwinigolfer on Sat 18 Jan 2020 - 21:47

Mac is certainly right about one thing, this event was a five rounder until about 2012 when it was shortened to 72 holes with a 54-hole cut.
I believe I'm correct in saying that one year Johnny Miller held a 72 hole lead in two tournaments (this and Las Vegas) without winning either.

Be that as it may, things so far have been right up Rickie Fowler's street as he shares the 36-hole lead with robo's protege, Scheffler.
Early days yet though, but not too early to suggest that many of the Europeans (Molinari, Bjerregard, Laird, Norlander among others) in the field are going to have to pull their fingers out today to make the cut. But happy to see Noren continue his better form, and he's already played the more difficult (everything's relative) Stadium Course - hope Alex can keep his foot down.

Another day of ideal scoring weather so expect the cut to be about -7.

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Post by super_realist on Sat 18 Jan 2020 - 23:37

robopz wrote:From my experience... Those who go out of their way the most to criticize others for silly meaningless reasons (religion, clothes, family, friends, body type, nationality, mannerisms, etc...).... Are more than likely to be the ones with the the highest self-esteem issues of their own. Just sayin'

Why do you have a lot of experience about that, and what qualifications do you have to determine their self esteem? None.

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Post by beninho on Sun 19 Jan 2020 - 0:19

super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:it's common for American religious people to be caught out with rent boys.

I am sure it has happened by what is your justification for saying "common"?

Ted Haggard, George Rekers, Steve Wiles, Mark Foley, Glenn Murphy Junior, could go on Mac. Just takes a little Google. Usually people who have publically been anti gay.

Some questions.

We know you have a keen interest in religion. But these people you've, I have no idea or really care who they are, are these people you are aware of? You have known information on religious people who have had a bit of man o man action? Or did you Google it, to get some names in the hope of backing up your wild claim?

Kwini, sorry for getting involved in the derailing of your thread.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 19 Jan 2020 - 3:50

No problem Ben!

The Amex Cup cut is now at -8 with the -7's destined for an early departure.
Fingers crossed the -8's make it, but birdies are flying so you never know.

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Post by McLaren on Sun 19 Jan 2020 - 18:35

I see the backstopping issue has reared its head again. This time Na was caught on mic willing Knox's shot from a bunker to catch his ball sitting next to the pin.

https://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2020/1/18/sighkeven-na-roots-for-his-backstopping-ball-to-help-another-player?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

This issue doesn't really bother me but it seems to really rile others, but the strike rate of backstop balls actually helping seems to be far too low to worry about it.

Shackleford suggests in the link above that it is about a misguided camaraderie.



One reason to care might be this portion of rule 15

15. a
Ball on Putting Green Helping Play
Rule 15.3a applies only to a ball at rest on the putting green, not anywhere else on the course.

If a player reasonably believes that a ball on the putting green might help anyone’s play (such as by serving as a possible backstop near the hole), the player may:

Mark the spot of the ball and lift it under Rule 13.1b if it is his or her own ball, or if the ball belongs to another player, require the other player to mark the spot and lift the ball (see Rule 14.1).
The lifted ball must be replaced on its original spot (see Rule 14.2).
In stroke play only:

A player who is required to lift a ball may play first instead, and
If two or more players agree to leave a ball in place to help any player, and that player then makes a stroke with the helping ball left in place, each player who made the agreement gets the general penalty (two penalty strokes).

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Post by robopz on Sun 19 Jan 2020 - 21:10

Mac... The problem with the rule you quoted above, it requires an agreement between two players to leave the ball with the purpose of it being a potential aid. So unless there was communication between the two players prior to Knox playing to leave the ball FOR THAT PURPOSE, then it's not a penalty. Doesn't make it right, but it's not a penalty The way the rules are written.

I still hate to see these things though. I hadn't seen it on the PGA tour in quite a while since it became such an issue last year. But it's pretty clear now it's still going on...

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Post by beninho on Sun 19 Jan 2020 - 21:43

Like a lot of things that rile others, I am not that bothered by the back stopping. If you are bothered by slow play how you then think lots more shots should be marked, which would slow it down further. But, no real issues with it.

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Post by McLaren on Mon 20 Jan 2020 - 4:35

Ben

And as I said above it rarely helps, in fact I can only remember seeing one incident where it did. It was a bunker shot but can't remember the details.
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Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 20 Jan 2020 - 8:09

robopz wrote:Mac... The problem with the rule you quoted above, it requires an agreement between two players to leave the ball with the purpose of it being a potential aid.  So unless there was communication between the two players prior to Knox playing to leave the ball FOR THAT PURPOSE, then it's not a penalty.  Doesn't make it right, but it's not a penalty The way the rules are written.

I still hate to see these things though. I hadn't seen it on the PGA tour in quite a while since it became such an issue last year. But it's pretty clear now it's still going on...

Agree 100% but, as others have suggested, it's a non-issue until it really IS an issue. Like so many things.

Impressed with Landry & Ancer today, Ancer in particular is turning in to quite the player - will be very surprised if he doesn't win this year.

Finau & Fowler, yes, and Casey, fell way short, while a couple of Division Two Europeans, Straka & Cappelen, earned Top Tens.

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Post by super_realist on Mon 20 Jan 2020 - 13:49

Re back stopping. The ball is considerably smaller than the hole, if you can't put it in the hole, what makes anyone think they are likely to hit a ball used as a backstop?

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Post by super_realist on Mon 20 Jan 2020 - 13:52

beninho wrote:
super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:it's common for American religious people to be caught out with rent boys.

I am sure it has happened by what is your justification for saying "common"?

Ted Haggard, George Rekers, Steve Wiles, Mark Foley, Glenn Murphy Junior, could go on Mac. Just takes a little Google. Usually people who have publically been anti gay.

Some questions.

We know you have a keen interest in religion. But these people you've,  I have no idea or really care who they are, are these people you are aware of? You have known information  on religious people who have had a bit of man o man action? Or did you Google it, to get some names in the hope of backing up your wild claim?

Kwini, sorry for getting involved in the derailing  of your thread.
I'd heard about a couple of them, googled the rest. It wasn't difficult as everyone knows how hypocritical all religious people are and there's loads of examples of the religious being rabidly anti gay only to be caught out with a rent boy.
Anyway, I was only yanking GPB's chain as he's so easy to wind up.

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Post by McLaren on Mon 20 Jan 2020 - 19:33

Super

The hole might be bigger than the ball, but the ball and hole combined are bigger than just the hole. Although as we keep mentioning it seems like more of a ritual practice to show rapport with your playing partner rather than actually saving shots.
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Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 21 Jan 2020 - 20:24

Some stars coming out to play this week at Torrey Pines in the "Farmers", Rory, Rosey, Xander, Tiger, Sick Bay Day.
And a Pasty faced young Cornishman, Harry Hall, who has Monday Qualified.

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Post by McLaren on Tue 21 Jan 2020 - 21:11

It will be interesting to see how McIlroy plays, despite not winning a major last season he seemed to be well on the way to reestablishing himself as the top dog. Another season of 2019 form and he would probably regain the #1 spot. Not sure how to get the site to do it for me, but by my calculations Rory got 470 OWGR points in 2019 while Koepka got 382.

Obviously the played a different number of events but that form again this year would probably see Rory overtake Koepka if Koepka didn't win majors.
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Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 21 Jan 2020 - 21:32

McLaren wrote:It will be interesting to see how McIlroy plays, despite not winning a major last season he seemed to be well on the way to reestablishing himself as the top dog. Another season of 2019 form and he would probably regain the #1 spot.  Not sure how to get the site to do it for me, but by my calculations Rory got 470 OWGR points in 2019 while Koepka got 382.

Obviously the played a different number of events but that form again this year would probably see Rory overtake Koepka if Koepka didn't win majors.


Mac,
Go to the owgr.com site; you'll find all you need to know.


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Post by McLaren on Tue 21 Jan 2020 - 23:13

Kwini

Don't think they have the calendar year totals. But pretty sure I added them up correctly.
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Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 21 Jan 2020 - 23:26

McLaren wrote:Kwini

Don't think they have the calendar year totals. But pretty sure I added them up correctly.

I'm sure if you drilled into the history, and got your comptometer out, you'd be able to figure these things out.

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Post by McLaren on Tue 21 Jan 2020 - 23:46

I did. Hence the totals posted above.
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Post by robopz on Wed 22 Jan 2020 - 1:05

World Golf Hall of Fame.... Kind of late fixing their screw up.... But better late than never. Tiger Woods will be in the Hall of Fame in 2021, unanimously... Book it.

https://twitter.com/GolfCentral/status/1219679297440567299?s=19

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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 22 Jan 2020 - 1:28

robopz wrote:World Golf Hall of Fame.... Kind of late fixing their screw up.... But better late than never. Tiger Woods will be in the Hall of Fame in 2021, unanimously... Book it.

https://twitter.com/GolfCentral/status/1219679297440567299?s=19

They don't have any other good (male) candidates so they can gorge themselves on a Tiger Coronation . . . . . . .
'Course, they'd be up the creek if he had a relapse and had to go back to Mississippi for an extended stay . . . . . .

Seriously, can't imagine who else they'd put in, certainly in the male pros section. Furyk perhaps? Tho' can't imagine why anyone would want to be honoured in his shadow.

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Post by robopz on Wed 22 Jan 2020 - 5:12

kwinigolfer wrote:
robopz wrote:World Golf Hall of Fame.... Kind of late fixing their screw up.... But better late than never. Tiger Woods will be in the Hall of Fame in 2021, unanimously... Book it.

https://twitter.com/GolfCentral/status/1219679297440567299?s=19

They don't have any other good (male) candidates so they can gorge themselves on a Tiger Coronation . . . . . . .
'Course, they'd be up the creek if he had a relapse and had to go back to Mississippi for an extended stay . . . . . .

Seriously, can't imagine who else they'd put in, certainly in the male pros section. Furyk perhaps? Tho' can't imagine why anyone would want to be honoured in his shadow.
before this change, The only new guys they had eligible coming up were
2021: Harrington, Furyk, Duval, Bjorn, KJ, Allenby....
2023: Westwood, Justin Leonard, Shingo Katayama.

Guys still in their 50's eligible from past classes but haven't got in include: Calc, IBF, Maj, Janzen, Craig Parry, Daly, Clarke, Cabrera, Jaidee.

Only ones I see in all that that are worthy are Harrington for sure, most likely Westwood, and maybe Elkington... kinda longshot Furyk.


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Post by robopz on Wed 22 Jan 2020 - 5:23

This listing is rather "tedious"... but it was my best shot at identifying who were eligible to be placed on the ballot the end of the year (but I added Westy's win).  This is based on the OLD age eligible classes... now anybody born in 1975 will be eligible for the NEXT class...

This shows the qualifying wins that made them eligible.  Note the players in ORANGE. They are only eligible because the WGHoF made the PLAYERS same as majors for qualifying criteria.  Again... this is not a list of who will get in... just a list of who's eligible for consideration to be placed on the "Players ballot"

PGA Tour: "The American Express": Notes from the Ballwasher Hof-ne11


Last edited by robopz on Wed 22 Jan 2020 - 23:01; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Edited chart to indicate NEW age breaks announced January 2020)

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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 22 Jan 2020 - 9:06

Great chart!!!!

Can't believe Weiskopf is not in.

Agree Padraig is a cert, and I reckon Furyk will be too. Though would still not be surprised if they were stood aside for the coronation.

Can't see any of the 50- or 60-something two Major guys getting in if Fuzzy has been passed over. (Lee Janzen something of a forgotten man in all this, which may suit him, dunno.)
And don't you think Westwood is kind of a Montgomerie-like figure, literally these days unfortunately? I'd think the backlash against Montgomerie will make them think twice before voting for Lee. DC maybe?
Don't think Elkington has made too many friends since his playing career wound down, but perhaps he's active doing worthy things in Houston?

Hope they add another architect or two however!

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Post by Shotrock on Wed 22 Jan 2020 - 21:36

Great chart Robo.

Kwin - Can't imagine anyone would care if they were inducted the same time as Tiger Woods.

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Post by robopz on Wed 22 Jan 2020 - 22:26

I updated/replaced the chart above HOF Chart with the NEW "Class Eligibility" breakdowns... NO changes on who is eligible or what they have done to be eligible... this just changes they year they are eligible to be inducted...

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