PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 29 Jan 2020, 7:08 pm

Health warning:
My thread last week seems to have been contaminated somehow, not sure how but I, for instance, have been unable to open it since a couple of hours after I posted it.
Hopefully Davie's theory of some malicious word appearing in an ad is correct and the remainder of the board is as trouble-free as it appears.
Regardless, just a couple of notes this week in the interests of getting a thread moving:

1).A good week in San Diego for following "horses for courses" and local players - there's always good betting value to be found in keeping a judicious eye on those criteria. Certainly not foolproof but well worth consideration every week.

2).They said Leishman was the 13th Aussie to earn five PGA Tour wins. I certainly can't come up with 12 others:
Ferrier, Thomson (if they include his Open Championships), Crampton, Devlin, Norman, Elkington, Appleby, Ogilvy, Day, Scott, and I'm struggling after that! Two to go, and I must think they're older gents who I've forgotten.

3).The Waste Management Phoenix Open this week. I wonder how many pros WM sponsor other than Charlie Hoffman? Hoffman has had a lousy year or so but is one of a number of players who seem to have slumped but may be making a comeback. Steele is another. And will Bill Haas ever find his mojo again - seems to have been all downhill for him since his fatal Ferrari snafu?

4).And several others are clambering their way back from long-term injuries, Kevin Chappell among the best of 'em. Sean O'Hair has been finding some form on the Korn Ferry Tour and plays this week.
One wonders whether others will fully return, Camilo (rehabbing on the Korn Ferry), Van Pelt, Lovemark, fatties Knost & Stadler, Kirk, Hahn & Huh, Schwartzel and Luke Donald, almost all of whom are in this week's field . . . . . . .  

5). . . . . As is Dechambeau who gave himself brain surgery on the flight back from Dubai, has made a miraculous recovery and will be rushed along in Rounds 1 & 2 by Fowler and Finau, neither prolific winners, but at least like to get a move on. Rickie defends his title this week, probably a lousy price but is one of a number of course specialists here, along with Hideki, Woodland, Simpson, Steele and even Martin Laird (who must be teetering on the edge of seeing his playing "privileges slowly slip, sliding away).

6).The Seniors are rocking the casbah in Morocco with a putrid turn out from the American Champions Tour crew but a good turnout from European Tour veterans. Kinda surprised not to find Karlsson's name among them.

7).CBS unveiled their new commentating crew last week - thought Davis Love was better than I expected he'd be, but Mark Immelman is a tough listen. Quite like Trev but I'd imagine they'll be thinking long and hard about older brother Marky. I'd much prefer Matt Gogel or Oberholser but it seems Immelman has the connections. Oh well, perhaps he's auditioning to cover the Premier Golf League.

8).And, on that note, I wonder if the participation In Saudi of the likes of Koepka, Reed, Johnson and Mickelson (and perhaps some others) is linked to World Golf Group?
Anyone defecting to WGG had better not bellyache about anything or it'll be off to the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul for them.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26025
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Wed 29 Jan 2020, 7:14 pm

I know it's got a truly terrible sponsor, but the field for the Waste Management is pretty dire.

super_realist

Posts : 23846
Join date : 2011-01-29
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 29 Jan 2020, 7:43 pm

super_realist wrote:I know it's got a truly terrible sponsor, but the field for the Waste Management is pretty dire.


I think the sponsor is very good, albeit with a terrible name. One of the longest contracts on Tour but Saudi money has certainly hi-jacked some likely participants, including Koepka & Mickelson both former winners. And the international turn-out is unusually miserable.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26025
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Wed 29 Jan 2020, 9:09 pm

kwini... I'm able to see the Farmers thread just fine... on both my laptop and Android... logged in or logged out. Not sure what the tech issue would be.

robopz

Posts : 3325
Join date : 2012-04-23
Location : Texas

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Wed 29 Jan 2020, 9:18 pm

Kwini... yes... the other two Aussie 5+ winners are long ago...

Jim Ferrier - 18 wins 1940's thru early 1961
Joe Kirkwood Sr - 13 wins from the 1920s-30s

My bad... you had Ferrier

robopz

Posts : 3325
Join date : 2012-04-23
Location : Texas

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Wed 29 Jan 2020, 9:26 pm

And as for the World Golf Group and Saudi... this RE Phil from Geoff Shackelford... hmmmm....

Mitzvah Alert: Mickelson Plays Saudi Pro-Am With Premier Golf League Founders

The Scotsman’s Martin Dempster tells us the amazing coincidence of all amazing coincidences: Phil Mickelson was paired up in Saudi Arabia’s European Tour pro-am round with founders of the Saudi-backed Premier Golf League.

After playing with Majed Al-Sorour, CEO of the Saudi Golf Federation, Colin Neville, of The Raine Group, London financier Andrew Gardiner and one other man only identified as “Richard,” Dempster quotes Mickelson has fascinated by the league concept.

“It was fascinating to talk with them and ask some questions and see what their plans are. Where they started, how they started, why and just got their background, which was very interesting.

“I haven’t had the chance to put it all together and think about what I want to say about it publicly, but I do think it was an informative day for me to have the chance to spend time with them.”

Who says pro-am rounds are a waste of time!


https://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2020/1/29/mitzvah-alert-mickelson-plays-saudi-pro-am-with-premier-golf-league-founders

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/golf/phil-mickelson-fascinated-after-being-wooed-by-new-world-tour-group-1-5082710

robopz

Posts : 3325
Join date : 2012-04-23
Location : Texas

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 29 Jan 2020, 9:46 pm

Hadn't read anything about the WGG or the Premier League rubbish, but think anyone who jumps ship had better be careful for what they wish for.

I don't see the appeal of a litany of limited field events and certainly don't get the premise that the "League" should be built around TV and potentially excluding the fan experience. It might work for a few venues but the novelty will wear pretty thin.

But it certainly seems that it's turning into effective leverage as Tour purses are being jump-started upwards.


kwinigolfer

Posts : 26025
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Wed 29 Jan 2020, 10:19 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Hadn't read anything about the WGG or the Premier League rubbish, but think anyone who jumps ship had better be careful for what they wish for.

I don't see the appeal of a litany of limited field events and certainly don't get the premise that the "League" should be built around TV and potentially excluding the fan experience. It might work for a few venues but the novelty will wear pretty thin.

But it certainly seems that it's turning into effective leverage as Tour purses are being jump-started upwards.

I talked about the purse thing in the post you couldn't read in the other thread... I will repost below. But to add to that... The PGAT purses are looking to go up 60% in the next few years with this new broadcast deal. As of now without the majors or alt events, PGAT purses already average $8.4 mil... but make that $9.5mil if you add in the FEX bonus. If this new TV deal is as reported... the average will likely be more like $12-14mil per event in a few years.

- - - -

Repost from other thread:

RE world tours... Mac I don't mind you pasting what I say elsewhere. If I didn't want it public I wouldn't post it public.

To me the bottom line is this...

Without the top players... This has zero chance of ever getting off the ground. And Chubby Chandler is supposedly saying Tiger was approached and said no thanks. Rory is saying similar.

But another thing is becoming clear too. Some of the top players are frustrated at the bloat of the tour organization and less of the gross being directed at the TALENT than any other sport in America. (And I posted on how underpaid PGA tour players are for years now). But this new broadcast deal is an opportunity for the PGA Tour to bring its players compensation more in line with the percentages of other sports. If it doesn't, there's going to be more assaults on the PGA tour as time goes along. PAY THE TALENT WHAT THEY'RE WORTH, and they won't have to worry about competitive tours popping up.

But what's baffling about all this, The players in effect control the PGA tour now. That they haven't been demanding their due all along makes no sense. Because golf is more expensive to produce as a % of revenue, it's not likely golfers can ever get 50% of the gross revenues like you see in other major team sports... But they've been making less than 25% of the gross for too long, and deserve a bigger piece of the pie. This recent FedEx cup change is helping, but they're still more that needs to be done.

robopz

Posts : 3325
Join date : 2012-04-23
Location : Texas

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 30 Jan 2020, 1:43 am

robo,
Wouldn't you also think that the amount of money being generated by the Majors and Ryder Cup compared to pay-outs especially rankles the pros?
Having said all of which, the amount of endorsement revenue opportunities the very top players/personalities have access to, for the duration their careers are, plus lifelong bennies, significantly greater than most of those in other sports.

I'm assuming the smaller cut, greater share of purse for the winner, etc, etc, are baby steps towards responding to the outside pressures on the Tour.

I don't know! I've never figured out what motivates the rich to be obsessed to want to become filthy rich, and then complain about taxes, so much of this leaves me pretty cold. (And broke.)

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26025
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Thu 30 Jan 2020, 2:53 am

Kwini... RE major money... oh HECK YES the paltry amount they're getting from the majors rankles the top pros.  When the USGA did their $100mil deal with FOX, it was an absolute crime for them to not immediately take the purse up to $20-25 mil. NBC gets the Open for $50 mil (and that's just US rights)... that should have been another $20+mil purse.  PGA ditto.  And I can even begin to fathom how much they're underpaid by the Masters.

I really think that was the impetus behind the FedEx Cup in the first place.  It was a way to get more money into the pockets of the top performers.

And as for "endorsements"... IMO that shouldn't factor.  The NFL doesn't pay some top QB $10 mil instead of $30 mil because he can make it up in endorsements. You pay them what they are WORTH based on they money they are making for you.  What they can make on top of that is their gravy.

You don't have near the pay scale problem in tennis. The likelihood of a top seed to make the at least the semi's in a major is maybe 2-3x that off golfers making the top-4 in a major  So the name stars who are driving the interest are getting a bigger piece of the pie.

And last... YES it's waaaay too much money. BUT... I'd rather the PLAYERS who are the reason all that money in golf is earned get their fair(er) share.

robopz

Posts : 3325
Join date : 2012-04-23
Location : Texas

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Thu 30 Jan 2020, 6:32 am

Paltry amounts? What world are you living in?
Golfers have to earn their money through finishing highly. It's completely different from team sports where you are tied to a team. They are "worth" what their position in the field dictates. Golfers in the PGA are paid plenty.

Personally I'd rather every sportsperson had performance related pay to encourage winning, so if you are in a team game, you earn a base salary which is topped up with win bonuses.
No decent golfer in the PGA is poor, let's stop this "it's hard being a PGA tour player" or "they're being exploited" nonsense attitude right now.if you aren't making money on the PGA, then you don't deserve to be on it and you'll deservedly lose your card.
It's not a charity to distribute wealth, it's a competition and those who do well reap the rewards.

super_realist

Posts : 23846
Join date : 2011-01-29
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by beninho on Thu 30 Jan 2020, 7:22 am

I listened to the recent NLU podcast, and they talked about the proposed new league, and also some of the issues top players are having on tour. The issue is the top players, the ones who attract the sponsors, the viewers and bring the money in, don't get paid for all that. They get paid the same as Carlos Ortiz or someone depending on the breakdown. Now if it was all pure sport then payment for achievement is fine, but as with most sports, it's way past that. Its entertainment as well. Its tv ratings, it's all the extras, and the big names don't get anything for it. In Europe or the middle east they can pay players to play. Maybe the pgatour should just accept that route, rather then the backhand way they do it anyway..RBC anyone?

beninho

Posts : 3920
Join date : 2011-01-28
Location : NW London

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Thu 30 Jan 2020, 7:54 am

I don't understand why anyone would think they should be paid for anything other than their endorsements and their prize money. Why should they get a dividend on top in recognition for being a top player on the tour or simply appearing? They're already rewarded by earning pots of money. How greedy are these guys? They need the tour, and the tour needs them. If they want money just for appearing, then they should be paying the tour for giving them the opportunity to be on it in the first place and be so wealthy. Works both ways.

The PGA pays a lot more than any other tour, so if you win on that tour, or even have a decent season, you're probably going to make more than you would on the ET or Asian tour with the "benefits" you might receive for turning up.

super_realist

Posts : 23846
Join date : 2011-01-29
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 30 Jan 2020, 1:12 pm

super_realist wrote:I don't understand why anyone would think they should be paid for anything other than their endorsements and their prize money. Why should they get a dividend on top in recognition for being a top player on the tour or simply appearing? They're already rewarded by earning pots of money. How greedy are these guys? They need the tour, and the tour needs them. If they want money just for appearing, then they should be paying the tour for giving them the opportunity to be on it in the first place and be so wealthy. Works both ways.

The PGA pays a lot more than any other tour, so if you win on that tour, or even have a decent season, you're probably going to make more than you would on the ET or Asian tour with the "benefits" you might receive for turning up.


super,
Don't you think, though, that it's not other golfers these guys are comparing their wealth to, it's athletes from other sports who are on mega multi-year contracts who will make in a few years more than Woods will make in his career - in official prizemoney (which I know is only a fraction of his riches) at any rate?

But I DO agree with you that keeping the essence of the Tour together serves both players and their tour.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26025
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 30 Jan 2020, 1:15 pm

Meanwhile, not point in talking up Sean O'Hair's return to action if he doesn't show up: w/d.

And it will be the proverbial Chamber Of Commerce conditions awaiting the pros in Phoenix, hopefully with a mere zephyr (or breezier?) to keep the pros guessing.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26025
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by McLaren on Thu 30 Jan 2020, 1:15 pm

Is this Premier golf league thing a bit like when a footballer wants an inflated pay check or transfer and there are lots of stories floating around about how much other people would pay for their services?

As robo has pointed out the top players feel they deserve more pay and maybe a rival group offering to pay more might just spook the PGAT into increasing the purses? Although I doubt the PGAT will be guaranteeing $25m minimum per year like the PGL claims the players will get.


Anyway, whatever the veracity of the situation the Guardian is reporting that the budget for the PGL is 1 billion with heavy investment from the Saudis.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2020/jan/30/saudi-involvement-golf-war-pga-premier-golf-league


And who could have predicted getting in bed with the Saidis would have been bad for the game?

In some ways if this PGL isn't just a lark to get more money out the PGAT for the players the ET is surely the entity most at risk here? They only need to lose 5 or so of the top players to the PGL and the ET becomes bereft of talent worthy of attracting any sort of audience.
McLaren
McLaren

Posts : 14582
Join date : 2011-01-27

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by McLaren on Thu 30 Jan 2020, 1:18 pm

Kwini

I think your point to super probably nails the disquiet among PGAT players, for a UK comparison you can see why a world class golfer would expect more per year than someone sitting on the bench at a mid table EPL team.
McLaren
McLaren

Posts : 14582
Join date : 2011-01-27

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Thu 30 Jan 2020, 1:46 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:
super_realist wrote:I don't understand why anyone would think they should be paid for anything other than their endorsements and their prize money. Why should they get a dividend on top in recognition for being a top player on the tour or simply appearing? They're already rewarded by earning pots of money. How greedy are these guys? They need the tour, and the tour needs them. If they want money just for appearing, then they should be paying the tour for giving them the opportunity to be on it in the first place and be so wealthy. Works both ways.

The PGA pays a lot more than any other tour, so if you win on that tour, or even have a decent season, you're probably going to make more than you would on the ET or Asian tour with the "benefits" you might receive for turning up.


super,
Don't you think, though, that it's not other golfers these guys are comparing their wealth to, it's athletes from other sports who are on mega multi-year contracts who will make in a few years more than Woods will make in his career - in official prizemoney (which I know is only a fraction of his riches) at any rate?

But I DO agree with you that keeping the essence of the Tour together serves both players and their tour.

Who cares about other sports? It's pretty arrogant of any golfer to think that they ought to get paid the same as actual, proper sports which are followed by millions more people.
I'd class golf as a sport of medium appeal and so its absurd to think that they should be paid in the same bracket as sports like football, F1, boxing or the American centric sports which are watched by millions.
The bottom line is golf is not that big a sport in comparison  so it's silly to expect to be paid the same and very naive that any golfer should see their game as remotely comparable to the top viewed sports. To look at it another way, should a professional sailor or table tennis player be paid the same as a golfer?
Pay is subject to supply and demand of the viewing audience and golf just isn't very popular and thus it doesn't attract as much money.
Golfers are lucky to get paid what they do.

super_realist

Posts : 23846
Join date : 2011-01-29
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by beninho on Thu 30 Jan 2020, 2:11 pm

If table tennis, sailing, bar billiards or tiddleywinks was able to secure a $700m a year tv deal for US network coverage alone, then comparing those sports may be worthwhile. But a deal this size puts golf into the same scope as big sports. This isn't driven by Kisner, Ortiz or Webb Simpson.

Bit like cricket with the ipl ramping big money on players. I would like to see a team league over a number of weeks, with players attached to franchises, like the ipl.

beninho

Posts : 3920
Join date : 2011-01-28
Location : NW London

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Thu 30 Jan 2020, 2:14 pm

700m is a million miles behind the money in football and cricket.
Just how greedy are these golfers? They walk, they aren't athletes and they swing a club at full lick about 30 times over 5 hours. They are extremely lucky to get as much as they do considering the lack of interest in the game.

super_realist

Posts : 23846
Join date : 2011-01-29
Location : Edinburgh

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 30 Jan 2020, 2:36 pm

Mac,
Re: Your European Tour comments: Don't you think that ship has sailed, sad to say?

And, given that I'd think you agree that it has, how many ET-centric golfers would make the Top 48 leading attractions for the "League". I can't think of any under 40.


ben,
If the Tours say "my way or the highway" there's no significant attraction that's likely to be left, even if guys like Koepka, DJ, Reed, BDeC, Sergio, Henrik jump ship - basically: Who cares?

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26025
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by I'm never wrong on Thu 30 Jan 2020, 2:53 pm

I am imagining parallels with a European football league.

I'm never wrong

Posts : 2196
Join date : 2011-05-26
Location : Just up the road, and turn right at the lights.

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by McLaren on Thu 30 Jan 2020, 8:53 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Mac,
Re: Your European Tour comments: Don't you think that ship has sailed, sad to say?

And, given that I'd think you agree that it has, how many ET-centric golfers would make the Top 48 leading attractions for the "League". I can't think of any under 40.


The gap between the ET and the PGAT is obviously quite big in terms of cash and OWGR points but it seemed like the ET was somewhat maintaining its status in terms of public and media interest until quite recently.  I think the Masters and Open leaving the BBC has shown us just how little interest the public have in seeking out golf coverage when the BBC don't incorporate two of the Majors into their news cycle. The bbc has further shown its disdain for golf by axing Andrew Cotter and Iain Carters golf podcast, which was actually quite popular.

This is anecdote of course, but what I have noticed in the last year or two is that watching and following the pro game among golfers (those playing the game) has decreased quite a lot. It is now quite rare to come across someone, even in a golf club, who is an avid follower of the game.

Anyway, I think what I am trying to say is the ship has probably at least taken in the anchor if not quite sailed. It is hard to see how more people can become interested in watching the ET when it is stuck behind skys exceptionally dull pay wall.

As for ET players the PGL might want, I can think of Fleetwood, Matty Fitz, Wallace and maybe Eddie pep. EDIT probably shouldn't have forgotten fat bob
McLaren
McLaren

Posts : 14582
Join date : 2011-01-27

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 30 Jan 2020, 10:55 pm

A few different things going on there Mac, but I don't necessarily think that being a golfer makes you a golf fan. Even the guys I'd play with and go to tournaments with didn't really know most of the players one from another.
Conversely, as in most other sports, I doubt that many avid fans are decent players, whether athletes, footballers, cricketers, you name it. But you've seen a trend and that must be respected.

My obit will read that I was below average in every sport I played (and loved playing) but a pro as a fan. Thanks to my graduation from the Fratton Park School of Fine Arts. Lots of people are like that, not anoraks, but twig on to something they find compelling.

And I doubt that they're the target audience for the WGG PL people. More likely to be the Hooray Henry personality fair weather crew. And they are very fickle.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26025
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 30 Jan 2020, 10:57 pm

Anyway:
News flash: J.B.Holmes leading in Phoenix: v2 golf board thrilled.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26025
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 31 Jan 2020, 1:12 pm

robopz wrote:Kwini... RE major money... oh HECK YES the paltry amount they're getting from the majors rankles the top pros.  When the USGA did their $100mil deal with FOX, it was an absolute crime for them to not immediately take the purse up to $20-25 mil. NBC gets the Open for $50 mil (and that's just US rights)... that should have been another $20+mil purse.  PGA ditto.  And I can even begin to fathom how much they're underpaid by the Masters.

I really think that was the impetus behind the FedEx Cup in the first place.  It was a way to get more money into the pockets of the top performers.

And as for "endorsements"... IMO that shouldn't factor.  The NFL doesn't pay some top QB $10 mil instead of $30 mil because he can make it up in endorsements. You pay them what they are WORTH based on they money they are making for you.  What they can make on top of that is their gravy.

You don't have near the pay scale problem in tennis. The likelihood of a top seed to make the at least the semi's in a major is maybe 2-3x that off golfers making the top-4 in a major  So the name stars who are driving the interest are getting a bigger piece of the pie.

And last... YES it's waaaay too much money. BUT... I'd rather the PLAYERS who are the reason all that money in golf is earned get their fair(er) share.
Different ball park, but I thought that sort of thing was a well accepted US model viz. tipping etc making up for employers paying a pittance in catering, bars, service industry etc?
navyblueshorts
navyblueshorts

Posts : 8616
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Off with the pixies...

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 31 Jan 2020, 1:17 pm

McLaren wrote:Is this Premier golf league thing a bit like when a footballer wants an inflated pay check or transfer and there are lots of stories floating around about how much other people would pay for their services?

As robo has pointed out the top players feel they deserve more pay and maybe a rival group offering to pay more might just spook the PGAT into increasing the purses?  Although I doubt the PGAT will be guaranteeing $25m minimum per year like the PGL claims the players will get.


Anyway, whatever the veracity of the situation the Guardian is reporting that the budget for the PGL is 1 billion with heavy investment from the Saudis.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2020/jan/30/saudi-involvement-golf-war-pga-premier-golf-league


And who could have predicted getting in bed with the Saidis would have been bad for the game?

In some ways if this PGL isn't just a lark to get more money out the PGAT for the players the ET is surely the entity most at risk here?  They only need to lose 5 or so of the top players to the PGL and the ET becomes bereft of talent worthy of attracting any sort of audience.
They'll (the players who climb on board with it) deserve all the brickbats coming their way, if this is true and it gets off the ground. The again, what ethics did many of the pros ever demonstrate? Money, money, money!
navyblueshorts
navyblueshorts

Posts : 8616
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Off with the pixies...

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 31 Jan 2020, 3:41 pm

It looks like another spectacular morning in the Arizona desert, a bit parky perhaps for the early starters but imagine scores will be low again as the day warms up.
Very little European interest except for Jon Rahm, for whom this is pretty much a home game.
Others, Cappelen, Knox, Laird, Bjerregard, Straka all need good rounds just to play the weekend.


Transfer Deadline Day today, but no word yet on anyone abandoning any Tour to join WGG. Though perhaps those in Saudi are on loan?

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26025
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 31 Jan 2020, 9:08 pm

robo,

Do you ever hear anything from your moles within PGAT HQ about any further challenge to the Tour's tax exempt status?
Would have thought that, with increasing money sloshing around would come increased scrutiny . . . . . .


Another MC for Jordan Spieth; he'll miss the WGC-Mexico unless he registers a decent result next week and he's falling faster than today's stock market so a place in the WGC-MatchPlay field could be in jeopardy.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26025
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 12:29 pm

Major Medical Extensions:
Colt Knost played his final start on his MME this week, missed the cut and promptly retired.

I think Luke Donald might also have played his final MME start and he missed the cut too. Wonder what he'll do, apart from hoping his Top 25 position in Career Earnings isn't overtaken by season's end.


Good day yesterday for Scots Knox & Laird: a pair of 67's, cut made and obviously a chance to move forward to a strong finish. They need one, especially Laird.
Missed cut for Hovland and Bjerregard (who is seeing the perils of "double-dipping").

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26025
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 2:08 pm

Kwini... Luke Donald had previously declared he would play out of the top 25 career earnings category for the balance of the year if he did not meet the terms of his major medical. He has to finalize that decision this week if he is to remain in the field for Pebble Beach. (He's currently listed as an entry in the major medical category, but he has lost that with the MC this week). So his options are: 1) play under career top 25. 2) rescind his choice to play out of top 25 and take a risk it will be available next year while trying to get sponsors exemptions. But he has to make the choice before he makes his next start. With JT & Brooks closing in on him from underneath on top-25 list, doesn't make sense he would change his mind on the top 25.

and as far as any inside I have on PGA tour and their concern about tax exempt status... I got nothing since before this last tax law change RE Entertainment expenses which doesn't appear to have had much of an effect on the tour. I got no clue if anything else is pending or if they are worried that something might be.

robopz

Posts : 3325
Join date : 2012-04-23
Location : Texas

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 2:20 pm

I heard on a podcast that the Major Medicals went 17 players deep this week. Only 5 players from the KFT shuffle made the field based on their KFF status.

PGATour Medical exemption page lists 24 players with Major Medicals going into this week. Down to 21 after Luke, Colt and Mullinax used their last one this week.

Mahan has one start left on his Minor Medical and he is in the field next week

JT will probably pass Luke this year, but I don't see anyone else passing him, so he should retain his Top 25 Career Money List exemption since he is #24 right now.

ICYMI, PGATour has recently added some WTF rankings on their Stat page.

https://www.pgatour.com/stats/categories.RATR_INQ.html

GPB

Posts : 6594
Join date : 2012-02-10
Location : Midwest, USA

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 2:32 pm

super_realist wrote:Paltry amounts? What world are you living in?
Golfers have to earn their money through finishing highly. It's completely different from team sports where you are tied to a team. They are "worth" what their position in the field dictates. Golfers in the PGA are paid plenty.
YES... PALTRY amounts. All 4 of the majors have had HUGE increases in direct revenue in recent years from new broadcast agreements, sponsor sales, tickets and merchandise of which they've only passed a small fraction on to the players. You PAY THE TALENT their fair share... PGA Tour is paying roughly 29% of gross income to the players in purses and retirement benefits (and that needs to be higher too). But there is not one major paying even 20% of gross to the players. Players are being cheated by the majors who under pay the players by 40-100% and instead direct the money to the "suits" in headquarters of the PGA of A, USGA, R&A and for the Masters to buy up half the real estate in Augusta, GA...


robopz

Posts : 3325
Join date : 2012-04-23
Location : Texas

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 2:46 pm

GPB wrote:I heard on a podcast that the Major Medicals went 17 players deep this week.  Only 5 players from the KFT shuffle made the field based on their KFF status.

PGATour Medical exemption page lists 24 players with Major Medicals going into this week.  Down to 21 after Luke, Colt and Mullinax used their last one this week.

Mahan has one start left on his Minor Medical and he is in the field next week

JT will probably pass Luke this year, but I don't see anyone else passing him, so he should retain his Top 25 Career Money List exemption since he is #24 right now.

ICYMI, PGATour has recently added some WTF rankings on their Stat page.

https://www.pgatour.com/stats/categories.RATR_INQ.html
Actually it's a "little" better or worse... depending on how you look at it.

One of the Major meds must have WD'd as it went to 16 actually playing.

In the final field there were only FOUR WTF grads that made it in via their WTF status (3 if you don't count Sheffler). But... I think 9 WTF guys ended up making the field total by all avenues incl. 3 with SE's of various types and 2 via prior week top-10s. I count 31 WTF players who entered but did not make the field via priority.

As for Career top-25... JT is currently abt $2.5 mil behind Luke Donald... Na $4.3 mil... Brooks $5.9 mil.

robopz

Posts : 3325
Join date : 2012-04-23
Location : Texas

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 2:52 pm

SO'H was the 17th MME, dropped out on Tuesday.

Tks for Lukey update.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26025
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 2:52 pm

Hadn't noticed that the Champions Tour is in Morocco this week and not a co-sanctioned event with the StaySure Tour.  Looks like Quigley is going to win, and along with Uncle Dana would make them (I think) the first Uncle/Nephew combo to win "Official Events" after the formation of the Senior Tour.  It looks like Sam Snead's wins are unofficial.


Last edited by GPB on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 2:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

GPB

Posts : 6594
Join date : 2012-02-10
Location : Midwest, USA

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 2:57 pm

Robo, Are you counting EVERYTHING?

I know the FOX/USGA contract includes the purses for the Women's and Senior US Opens (as well as the amateur events which obviously have no purses).

GPB

Posts : 6594
Join date : 2012-02-10
Location : Midwest, USA

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 2:58 pm

GPB... notice on that STATS page you listed. For the first time the PGAT is actually listing top-50 all time winners. (https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.ATR727.html) I'm glad they did that, shows how many discrepancies there are on the INCORRECT Wiki list... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_golfers_with_most_PGA_Tour_wins)

robopz

Posts : 3325
Join date : 2012-04-23
Location : Texas

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 3:10 pm

GPB wrote:Robo, Are you counting EVERYTHING?

I know the FOX/USGA contract includes the purses for the Women's and Senior US Opens (as well as the amateur events which obviously have no purses).
No I'm not counting everything... but "supposedly" 60% of the reported $100 mil USGA contract was value attributable to the Men's US OPEN. That would be $60 million (NBC was paying $42 mil for just the men's US Open before)... And that's before a single secondary sponsorship, ticket, parking, suite or piece of merchandise is sold.  And that doesn't include INTERNATIONAL broadcast rights either.  Men's U.S. Open should be paying in the $25 million range (or more) for the players to be getting their fair share.    And NBC is paying $50 mil for the OPEN in US domestic rights...  CBS even more with the PGA (again, just domestic)...  Masters nobody knows for sure, but even with limited broadcast hours and commercial time it's been estimated their CBS deal is north of $60 mil domestic, and it supposedly has the largest international distribution...

robopz

Posts : 3325
Join date : 2012-04-23
Location : Texas

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 4:15 pm

12 US Amateur Winners.  Picture taken in 1986

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher EPqDlEMX0AAg0Ez?format=jpg&name=small



How many can you name.  I got 6, (4 in back row, Middle two in the front)

Answers:
standing L-R Jerry Pate, Jay Sigel, Lanny Wadkins, Steve Melnyk, Fred Ridley, Hal Sutton. Seated L-R Vinny Giles, Charles Coe, Deane Beman, Jack Nicklaus, Bill Campbell, Labron Harris. Picture was from 1986 US Am

GPB

Posts : 6594
Join date : 2012-02-10
Location : Midwest, USA

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 4:35 pm

It looks like Dick Enberg behind Nicklaus - how did that happen??!!

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26025
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 4:48 pm

GPB wrote:12 US Amateur Winners.  Picture taken in 1986

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher EPqDlEMX0AAg0Ez?format=jpg&name=small



How many can you name.  I got 6,  (4 in back row, Middle two in the front)
I got same as you 4/2... I should have got six in the back... Never would have got the others in the front

robopz

Posts : 3325
Join date : 2012-04-23
Location : Texas

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 4:53 pm

6 for me too, the bloke on the front right hit the first shot I ever saw at a Ben Hogan Tour event. He'd certainly changed a bit.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26025
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Sat 01 Feb 2020, 4:55 pm

I should got all of them in the back row too. Forgotten that Masters Chairman won a US AM.

GPB

Posts : 6594
Join date : 2012-02-10
Location : Midwest, USA

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 9:09 pm

Amazing stat that CBS showed on Tony Finau.
Over the last four years, he has the most runner up finishes - 5
Top 5's
Top 10's
Top 25's
of any player without a win.


European interest in Phoenix: Waning.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26025
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 11:01 pm

Play Off - Will Finau add to that stat?

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26025
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 02 Feb 2020, 11:17 pm

Yup.

Webb Simpson has turned into a really good player, much better than plenty who get much more ink. Good for him.
Plus he's a course specialist there.

kwinigolfer

Posts : 26025
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by pedro on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 11:04 am

Waste Management?
https://www.golfchannel.com/news/report-underage-man-arrested-stealing-alcohol-waste-management-phoenix-open

pedro

Posts : 6794
Join date : 2011-01-27

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 2:00 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Yup.

Webb Simpson has turned into a really good player, much better than plenty who get much more ink. Good for him.
Plus he's a course specialist there.
Agree... And Webb has some quality wins on that 6-win resume... A major, Players, and a playoff event... That win puts him tied 175 on the all-time PGA tour wins list. Granted not even close to Hall of Fame stuff, but how would any of us like to be in the all time top 175 career wise in the history of whatever it is we do? He's a solid.

robopz

Posts : 3325
Join date : 2012-04-23
Location : Texas

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 03 Feb 2020, 2:11 pm

Rob Bolton seems to confirm that Luke Donald is burning his one-time "Top 25 in Career Earnings" special exemption for the remainder of this season.
And, if this little bonus doesn't grease the wheels towards a Top 125 position this season, he has another freebie (not really, he's earned it after all) coming for 2020/21: "Top 50 in Career Earnings".

I haven't seen Luke specifically say there are only a few courses remaining on Tour that he can still compete on (as Kevin Na and Chris Stroud have stated), but it must also be true of Donald. His season stats are pretty awful:
Total driving: 219th out of 229
Greens in Reg: 198th
Strokes gained putting: 171st
Total scrambling: 203rd

Whilst he hasn't played enough rounds for this to be a fair representation for the year, not necessarily anyway, it's clear that his one-time genius from around and on the green has plumbed to journeyman levels.

He's playing this week at Pebble Beach and has played well at some upcoming venues, Riviera, Honda, Innisbrook, even TPC, but he needs some really good finishes; and fast.


kwinigolfer

Posts : 26025
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Vermont

Back to top Go down

PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher Empty Re: PGA Tour: Phoenix Open: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum