Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

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Post by super_realist on Tue 28 Jan 2020, 6:46 am

First topic message reminder :

dynamark wrote:Kobe beef isn't that a real thing.Not familiar with the gent but Basketball is a great spectator sport in that there is a score every few seconds and always a result .
Lowry has done very  well to say the least in view of the stick he gets.Good lad

Do you think so? It's certainly a great sport to play, but it's pretty boring to watch. 75% of the game is irrelevant. It only becomes slightly interesting in the last quarter when the match is won and lost. I thinks that's the problem with American sport. They concentrate so much on there being frequent scoring, that it becomes routine and lacks excitement when they do score.
I prefer moments of brilliance in sports rather than just constant routine points.

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Post by beninho on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 8:43 am

You have no idea what my views on the NHS are, so leave that out"


"Do you really think that had there not been 10 years of austerity that the NHS would be all that much better at coping with the current situation? We need to stop pretending that the NHS is somehow the best system and that it just needs funding to make it better, we need to look more at how it is set up, rather than just throwing money into a black poorly managed hole."

So, we do know you views on the NHS!

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Post by super_realist on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 8:52 am

beninho wrote:
"Do you really think that had there not been 10 years of austerity that the NHS would be all that much better at coping with the current situation? We need to stop pretending that the NHS is somehow the best system and that it just needs funding to make it better, we need to look more at how it is set up, rather than just throwing money into a black poorly managed hole."

So, we do know you views on the NHS!

I can always trust you to not grasp a comment. This crisis has caught out and stretched every single health service in the entire world.
Of course I'd like a better health service and more money to be spent on it, just as I'd like the UK population to take it on themselves to put far less strain on the service through better life choices, but more money wouldn't necessarily have meant they were any better equipped to deal with an event of this size, furthermore something that can't be forecast like this means you don't have the expertise in the hospitals to deal with it, or the equipment. Stop looking through your hindsight spectacles because any armchair epidemiologist can do that.

We are where we are, and we are doing a lot better than many countries who put more resources into their health services, so you can't blame everything on a lack of funding or 10 years of austerity. Regardless of what had happened in the last 10 years, we'd still be crippled. It's not an excuse for lack of investment, but this is unprecedented and you ought to acknowledge that rather than point fingers because it doesn't help anyone.

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Post by beninho on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 9:11 am

Of course its unprecedented, no one doubts that.

Doesn't mean that I cant hold the view that austerity under the Tory government has had an impact in the NHS.

Doesn't mean i cant hold the view, that i dont think the government has handled this well.

Unsure what you mean about pointing figures not helping anyone.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 9:18 am

Sitting indoors criticising the government at this present time does not help anyone. I myself have tried to separate politics from this as much as possible because it blinkers people and they base their opinions on the who as opposed to the why.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 10:05 am

beninho wrote:Of course its unprecedented, no one doubts that.

Doesn't mean that I cant hold the view that austerity under the Tory government has had an impact in the NHS.

Doesn't mean i cant hold the view, that i dont think the government has handled this well.

Unsure what you mean about pointing figures not helping anyone.
picard Anyone can sit there and throw brickbats. Time for dogmatic "My politics are better than yours!" kind of debate isn't now. Have an opinion; fine. That's all it is though, uninformed opinion.
About time we grew up, don't you think? Actually, don't know why I bother to ask, given this social media 'everyone has an opinion and it's important' era. For 99% of the population: no, your opinion isn't important just now.
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Post by beninho on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 10:18 am

I'm not saying its important or anyone else has to agree. But I'm allowed an opinion. It has no impact on how I get on with it. It doesn't stop me helping people at threat of it or following government guidelines at work.

It's just an opinion. We all have them.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 10:39 am

What is that opinion based on? That's the issue.

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Post by beninho on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 10:47 am

In life generally we make opinions based on what we see, hear, read or know.

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Post by dynamark on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 10:47 am

Radio 5 was getting a bit repetitive on the climate issue.Cambell mentioned palm oil or orangutan every day. !
Cprbyn was interviewed by Laura K he didn't have to do the interview and didn't have to make those comments but it was par for the course as we say and suited the BBC as a headline .
Most media using inflamed terminology and asking silly questions to an extent . A week ago we were told the risk of infection was being in close company for 15 minutes with someone affected and now we are crossing the street so we don't even get close.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 11:09 am

beninho wrote:In life  generally we make opinions based on what we see, hear, read or know.

And what about when we lack the basic understanding of the subject matter?

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Post by beninho on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 11:14 am

Then that doesn't stop people having an opinion. Look at Brexit.

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Post by beninho on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 11:39 am

It got us out of the EU. People were allowed a vote on that.

An opinion is a lot less then a having a vote.

Do you think that everyone has a full understanding of everything that they have an opinion on?

What I was responding to seems to have vanished.

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Post by McLaren on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 12:33 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:That's all it is though, uninformed opinion.

Do you really think the opinion that "austerity damaged the NHS" is uninformed? I have a sneaking suspicion that 5 minutes on a google scholar search (or whatever acedemic search engine you use) would turn up plenty of articles that could answer the question.
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Post by dynamark on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 12:34 pm

See Boris has done a Blackadder and jumped out of the trench and got out into no mans land .
Might make the rest of us think yes that could be any of us.
Typical example of the media speech -Laura K just said 'for the time being Mr Johnson will be TRYING to run the government response'

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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 12:58 pm

dynamark wrote:See Boris has done a Blackadder and jumped out of the trench and got out into no mans land .
Might make the rest of us think yes that could be any of us.
Typical example of the media speech -Laura K just said 'for the time being Mr Johnson will be TRYING to run the government response'



From what the BBC printed, that's NOT what she said!

"BJ has been in close contact with the gov't's chief scientist and all of the people in charge of TRYING to handle HOW the gov't's various responses are going."
Quite a different meaning if you actually take the trouble to read it.

You should come over here dyna and try to put a spin on Drumpf's nonsense . . . . . . . . you'd have a fine old time defending his virus is a hoax garbage.

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Post by dynamark on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 1:22 pm

Hi Kwini- I havnt been able to rerun pretty sure what I watched live(naf all else to do) but the point is the use of the word trying as opposed to just will be puts a negative in there that isn't relevant and is purely for impact.
Another one they have been quoting is Northwick park hospital Wembley/Harrow( next to a couple of decent golf facilites) had to declare a major incident for a day last week and they then move as planned as usual cases to nearby facilities.This one has been reused for days tp put the hospitals are flooded message out.
I doubt Mr Trump would need me ,Im good but maybe not that good ,I would like to meet the man though maybe a fourball with yourself and John Daly.

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Post by beninho on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 1:31 pm

Hospitals are flooded in this area, borthwick park is just done the road. We are seeing people being discharged from hospital earlier then planned in order to free up spaces. Also big issues with rough sleepers.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 1:31 pm

dynamark wrote:Hi Kwini- I havnt been able to rerun pretty sure what I watched live(naf all else to do) but the point is the use of the word trying as opposed to just will be puts a negative in there that isn't relevant and is purely for impact.
Another one they have been quoting is Northwick park hospital Wembley/Harrow( next to a couple of decent golf facilites) had to declare a major incident for a day  last week and they then move as planned as  usual cases to nearby facilities.This one has been reused for days tp put the hospitals are flooded message out.
I doubt Mr Trump would need me ,Im good but maybe not that good ,I would like to meet the man though maybe a fourball with yourself and John Daly.



I'll stick with the twosome dyna, you and me, although you could ask Mr Birchenall to join us. thumbsup

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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 2:16 pm

The US "Religious Right" (not really religious, just bigotted racists) will be thrilled to know a leading condom (I know, doesn't bear thinking about) manufacturer has been forced to close due to corona; they turn out about 20% of the world's supply apparently.

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Post by McLaren on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 2:20 pm

Kwini

How are you feeling about things, the picture we are getting of the US situation looks bleak?
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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 2:23 pm

McLaren wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:That's all it is though, uninformed opinion.

Do you really think the opinion that "austerity  damaged the NHS" is uninformed? I have a sneaking suspicion that 5 minutes on a google scholar search (or whatever acedemic search engine you use) would turn up plenty of articles that could answer the question.
Not relevant and/or too general/simplistic in current context. If you want to overly simplify things to justify a political bias, go ahead.
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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 2:25 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:The US "Religious Right" (not really religious, just bigotted racists) will be thrilled to know a leading condom (I know, doesn't bear thinking about) manufacturer has been forced to close due to corona; they turn out about 20% of the world's supply apparently.
Maybe they can re-purpose and make other forms of PPE?
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Post by beninho on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 2:25 pm

Been reading about New Orleans, and how only a month ago they had Mardi gras now it's pretty rife. Just seems bonkers looking back.

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Post by Shotrock on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 2:31 pm

One MAJOR difference here is that the US Health System is a for-profit industry and money is made on treatment, not on prevention. Couple that with a CEO that not long ago called this a democratic media hoax and lots of areas of VERY unprepared.

That said, the area I am in (suburban Philadelphia) is "stay at home" and the vast majority are doing as asked. I'm hearing the apex my mid-late April. I rarely wish time away, but I do right now!

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Post by McLaren on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 2:33 pm

Navy

Not sure I get what you are saying. Do you think reduced spending as a percentage of GDP on our healthcare system vs other western European countries is just my bias or did it really happen under austerity?

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Post by McLaren on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 2:34 pm

Shotrock wrote: I rarely wish time away, but I do right now!

Yes, I think this is a feeling pretty much everyone can empathise with at the moment.
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Post by Soul Requiem on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 2:35 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
McLaren wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:That's all it is though, uninformed opinion.

Do you really think the opinion that "austerity  damaged the NHS" is uninformed? I have a sneaking suspicion that 5 minutes on a google scholar search (or whatever acedemic search engine you use) would turn up plenty of articles that could answer the question.
Not relevant and/or too general/simplistic in current context. If you want to overly simplify things to justify a political bias, go ahead.

What is it with people thinking that throwing money at a problem is the solution?

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Post by beninho on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 2:39 pm

If the problem is years and years of cuts to budgets throwing money at it will generally be more helpful.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 2:39 pm

McLaren wrote:Kwini

How are you feeling about things, the picture we are getting of the US situation looks bleak?


Very uncertain Mac.
Mrs kwini works in the local Medical Centre, biggest hospital in the US for 100 miles around, but they've cleared the decks for an influx of patients that has yet to materialise, eerily quiet. On the other hand, there's a "health & rehab" nursing centre 600 yards away from my keyboard which has been the local petri dish for contamination, six deaths at last count already.
My daughter is a teacher up by the Quebec border and their school year has closed 3 months early.
And my lad lives in Brooklyn yet he and his lady feel quite safe staying down there.
Lots of self-isolation going on, quite well observed locally I would say.


With regard to ben's comment about Mardi Gras, it sounds like Atalanta vs Valencia @ San Siro except a fortnight later - remember, that was when the White House was calling the whole thing a "hoax".
Fortunately, they're also saying we'll be open for business by Easter . . . . . . . . .

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Post by Soul Requiem on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 2:51 pm

beninho wrote:If the problem is years and years of cuts to budgets throwing money at it will generally be more helpful.

That is to assume that budget cuts are the issue as opposed to mismanagement. Throwing money is only helpful if done in the right way.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 2:54 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
beninho wrote:If the problem is years and years of cuts to budgets throwing money at it will generally be more helpful.

That is to assume that budget cuts are the issue as opposed to mismanagement. Throwing money is only helpful if done in the right way.


R Soul,
Are you therefore saying that the governments of the past ten years would have felt incapable of investing money "in the right way"? Makes sense to me . . . . .

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Post by beninho on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 3:20 pm

If cuts are made year on year, you lose the opportunity to blame management.

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Post by JAS on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 4:41 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
McLaren wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:That's all it is though, uninformed opinion.

Do you really think the opinion that "austerity  damaged the NHS" is uninformed? I have a sneaking suspicion that 5 minutes on a google scholar search (or whatever acedemic search engine you use) would turn up plenty of articles that could answer the question.
Not relevant and/or too general/simplistic in current context. If you want to overly simplify things to justify a political bias, go ahead.

What is it with people thinking that throwing money at a problem is the solution?

Hang on a minute...I don’t think anybody is saying throwing money is the solution. We’re not well enough informed to properly define a future solution. What is patently obvious though is why we need a solution (whatever it may be) in the first place is because starvation of cash flow on (needless) ideological grounds caused the system to be weakened/holed below the waterline. Now a real crisis has come along and we’re discovering (well it’s dawning on many that have had their heads in the sand) that we’re holed below the waterline and now totally dependent on heroic efforts. Britain being Britain, were not short of heroes but Christ did we really want to be starting the fight from our knees? Many are starting the fight from a MUCH better position e.g. Denmark? Sweden? Norway?

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Post by Soul Requiem on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 4:49 pm

JAS wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
McLaren wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:That's all it is though, uninformed opinion.

Do you really think the opinion that "austerity  damaged the NHS" is uninformed? I have a sneaking suspicion that 5 minutes on a google scholar search (or whatever acedemic search engine you use) would turn up plenty of articles that could answer the question.
Not relevant and/or too general/simplistic in current context. If you want to overly simplify things to justify a political bias, go ahead.

What is it with people thinking that throwing money at a problem is the solution?

Hang on a minute...I don’t think anybody is saying throwing money is the solution. We’re not well enough informed to properly define a future solution. What is patently obvious though is why we need a solution (whatever it may be) in the first place is because starvation of cash flow on (needless) ideological grounds caused the system to be weakened/holed below the waterline. Now a real crisis has come along and we’re discovering (well it’s dawning on many that have had their heads in the sand) that we’re holed below the waterline and now totally dependent on heroic efforts. Britain being Britain, were not short of heroes but Christ did we really want to be starting the fight from our knees? Many are starting the fight from a MUCH better position e.g. Denmark? Sweden? Norway?

Lower populations and less overseas through flow help massively there.

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Post by dynamark on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 6:02 pm

Kwin I don't know if you were aware Alan Birch had heart attack year or so ago got lucky with Nurse in the building where he was at the time Im not sure hes ever played our game but for sure a splendid individual some great stories many involving Frank Worthingtons exploits .-you can imagine.
BBC have just done it again Clive Myrie saying that now these ministers have been 'incapacitated'.
We have to deal with what we have in front cannot run our services on what may happen once every 20 years .have you ever seen a road accident with 6 police cars and think what do they do the rest of the time .there is an ambulance station close to me and yesterday must have been 20 vehicles parked up so Im thinking yes we have the resource if we need it.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 6:07 pm

dyna,
Yup, I was aware of Birch's heart attack, wasn't it during your Premier Champ year? Quite a team that AB & FW played on.

At least the Beeb didn't say the ministers had been decapitated . . . . . . . . (wish some of ours had been).

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Post by JAS on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 6:32 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
JAS wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
McLaren wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:That's all it is though, uninformed opinion.

Do you really think the opinion that "austerity  damaged the NHS" is uninformed? I have a sneaking suspicion that 5 minutes on a google scholar search (or whatever acedemic search engine you use) would turn up plenty of articles that could answer the question.
Not relevant and/or too general/simplistic in current context. If you want to overly simplify things to justify a political bias, go ahead.

What is it with people thinking that throwing money at a problem is the solution?

Hang on a minute...I don’t think anybody is saying throwing money is the solution. We’re not well enough informed to properly define a future solution. What is patently obvious though is why we need a solution (whatever it may be) in the first place is because starvation of cash flow on (needless) ideological grounds caused the system to be weakened/holed below the waterline. Now a real crisis has come along and we’re discovering (well it’s dawning on many that have had their heads in the sand) that we’re holed below the waterline and now totally dependent on heroic efforts. Britain being Britain, were not short of heroes but Christ did we really want to be starting the fight from our knees? Many are starting the fight from a MUCH better position e.g. Denmark? Sweden? Norway?

Lower populations and less overseas through flow help massively there.
Lower pops...ok, less overseas throughflow, well obviously if the populations are lower, however there is just a whiff of moving goalposts in your response. The simple fact is that ALL of those countries have for some time placed a much higher priority on health and social provision than we have. Anecdotal obviously but I worked in Sweden 3 years ago and saw their healthcare provision close up.

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Post by beninho on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 6:51 pm

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/27/advice-on-protective-gear-for-nhs-staff-was-rejected-owing-to-cost#click=https://t.co/mO0YDo5Swk

But it's not about the money saving...

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Post by Soul Requiem on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 6:53 pm

beninho wrote:https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/27/advice-on-protective-gear-for-nhs-staff-was-rejected-owing-to-cost#click=https://t.co/mO0YDo5Swk

But it's not about the money saving...

I'm sure they foresaw this happening back in 2017.

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Post by beninho on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 7:02 pm

What the people who advised what should be stockpiled in case if a pandemic? Or the government who said it would cost to much money and didn't want to spend on the extra protective clothing?

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Post by I'm never wrong on Fri 27 Mar 2020, 8:33 pm

This might be old news and obvious, but do people know that they can "pause" Sky Sports? All you are doing is pausing the payments as you still receive the channels (with repeats on).

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Post by dynamark Yesterday at 8:25 am

Beni there is an awful lot of rough sleeping in the Wembley area for some reason Our company has a big problem with finding them in basements and bin stores in blocks of flats. I would guess if you are begging for want of a better word the lack of folk about may make that even harder and encourage them into what shelter and accommodation is being offered.
Cant help with the sky issue but im looking at youtube to watch classic short sport stories.

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Post by beninho Yesterday at 9:24 am

https://twitter.com/mattuthompson/status/1243486916311465984?s=19

Are we allowed to accept the views from a medical journal. Or is that not allowed either?

Also, anyone seen the YouTube clip of mps cheering after rejecting the vote to increase nurses salary. All but 1 tory voted against it. Yet, we now have people clapping the nhs after voting tory. Hope these people actually have their eyes opened.

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Post by Soul Requiem Yesterday at 11:22 am

beninho wrote:https://twitter.com/mattuthompson/status/1243486916311465984?s=19

Are we allowed to accept the views from a medical journal. Or is that not allowed either?

Also, anyone seen the YouTube clip of mps cheering after rejecting the vote to increase nurses salary. All but 1 tory voted against it. Yet, we now have people clapping the nhs after voting tory. Hope these people actually have their eyes opened.

Is that the same Lancet that erroneously linked the MMR jab with autism and caused social panic?

Your continued insistence on making this a political issue sums you up.

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Post by dynamark Yesterday at 12:01 pm

2 researchers from Imperial college London one predicts 6000 deaths and the other 250000 you wonder who pays these guys .6000 related to CV would be a right result in some regards(probably around 750000 die each year in normal times) plus some economic and social 'cost'
I see Bright House is looking like folding which lets face it no bad thing and some of the restaurant chains in trouble were running on empty anyway fighting the takeaway trade

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Post by beninho Yesterday at 12:54 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
beninho wrote:https://twitter.com/mattuthompson/status/1243486916311465984?s=19

Are we allowed to accept the views from a medical journal. Or is that not allowed either?

Also, anyone seen the YouTube clip of mps cheering after rejecting the vote to increase nurses salary. All but 1 tory voted against it. Yet, we now have people clapping the nhs after voting tory. Hope these people actually have their eyes opened.

Is that the same Lancet that erroneously linked the MMR jab with autism and caused social panic?

Your continued insistence on making this a political issue sums you up.

Your weird head in sand defence of anything slightly critical of the tories sums you up. We obviously have different opinions on many things, but I didn't have a I play with my 2inch cock over nurses not having the salary increased like the tory boys.

beninho

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Post by beninho Yesterday at 12:57 pm

Anyone seen the video of Boris a few weeks ago saying how he was shaking everyone's hands. And no he has a virus, what a buffoon.

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Post by beninho Yesterday at 1:00 pm

Soul, are you a brexiteer?

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Post by Soul Requiem Yesterday at 1:06 pm

beninho wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
beninho wrote:https://twitter.com/mattuthompson/status/1243486916311465984?s=19

Are we allowed to accept the views from a medical journal. Or is that not allowed either?

Also, anyone seen the YouTube clip of mps cheering after rejecting the vote to increase nurses salary. All but 1 tory voted against it. Yet, we now have people clapping the nhs after voting tory. Hope these people actually have their eyes opened.

Is that the same Lancet that erroneously linked the MMR jab with autism and caused social panic?

Your continued insistence on making this a political issue sums you up.

Your weird head in sand defence of anything slightly critical of the tories sums you up. We obviously have different opinions on many things, but I didn't have a I play with my 2inch man sausage over nurses not having the salary increased like the tory boys.

Ah no are you starting to crack and now resorting to insults?

I'm starting to think you lack any sort of intelligence.

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Post by beninho Yesterday at 1:11 pm

Was that an insult in the same post about resorting to insults.

You are a tory fanboy, we get it..

I'm just not buying the cant criticise or question the government line.

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