Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

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Post by super_realist on Tue 28 Jan 2020, 6:46 am

First topic message reminder :

dynamark wrote:Kobe beef isn't that a real thing.Not familiar with the gent but Basketball is a great spectator sport in that there is a score every few seconds and always a result .
Lowry has done very  well to say the least in view of the stick he gets.Good lad

Do you think so? It's certainly a great sport to play, but it's pretty boring to watch. 75% of the game is irrelevant. It only becomes slightly interesting in the last quarter when the match is won and lost. I thinks that's the problem with American sport. They concentrate so much on there being frequent scoring, that it becomes routine and lacks excitement when they do score.
I prefer moments of brilliance in sports rather than just constant routine points.

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Post by JAS on Thu 13 Feb 2020, 2:23 pm

beninho wrote:10th housing minister in 10 years, we wonder why the system is fricked up  and not getting any better.

....Because the majority of the electorate don’t want to contemplate alternatives?

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Post by dynamark on Thu 13 Feb 2020, 6:22 pm

Mac I did read some Trump bio books a good while ago(years) and to be honest very interesting in a capitalist way.I don't know enough American politic though.
I started a business when I was 24 very ambitious didn't mind a risk but now much more carefulI lost a ton of cash on a golf course project as it happens but got back on the bike and reset .My lad now 27 just starting something and I'm hoping to give him some guidance.
Too many folk happy to jog along with the system for me only get once life as far as I know.

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Post by McLaren on Thu 13 Feb 2020, 7:39 pm

dynamark wrote:I'm hoping to give him some guidance.

He is screwed.
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Post by super_realist on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 6:37 am

JAS wrote:
beninho wrote:10th housing minister in 10 years, we wonder why the system is fricked up  and not getting any better.

....Because the majority of the electorate don’t want to contemplate alternatives?
There is no alternative Jas. You can't seriously be suggesting that Labour are an electable alternative? You don't seem to accept that Labour have a big part to play in the state of British politics. Their only job is to provide a party who are a viable, electable party or at the very least an accountable and worthy opposition to the government. They aren't even close, yet you seem to ignore that constantly and are now hilariously blaming the electorate. Labour have been a laughing stock for years. You can't blame the electorate for that.

They'll never have an easier opportunity to be elected and they blew it twice.

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Post by beninho on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 7:44 am

JAS wrote:
beninho wrote:10th housing minister in 10 years, we wonder why the system is fricked up  and not getting any better.

....Because the majority of the electorate don’t want to contemplate alternatives?

A lot of people don't even consider we have a crisis. The biggest crisis to them, is if their property doesn't keep going up in value even without doing anything

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Post by JAS on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 8:20 am

super_realist wrote:
JAS wrote:
beninho wrote:10th housing minister in 10 years, we wonder why the system is fricked up  and not getting any better.

....Because the majority of the electorate don’t want to contemplate alternatives?
There is no alternative Jas. You can't seriously be suggesting that Labour are an electable alternative? You don't seem to accept that Labour have a big part to play in the state of British politics. Their only job is to provide a party who are a viable, electable party or at the very least an accountable and worthy opposition to the government. They aren't even close, yet you seem to ignore that constantly and are now hilariously blaming the electorate. Labour have been a laughing stock for years. You can't blame the electorate for that.

They'll never have an easier opportunity to be elected and they blew it twice.

JHC this gets more and more tiresome daily, here’s one...see if you can keep yourself occupied for a few hours by reading back through ALL my posts and try and find direct accusations of blame anywhere...good luck!

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Post by dynamark on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 6:17 pm

Mac - a proper keyboard warrior no need please.
Folk have different views and take different paths in their lives and I would not wish to crawl along the bottom of the pond expecting someone to help me out.Work hard pay your taxes vote when you get the chance and enjoy it.

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Post by I'm never wrong on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 8:27 pm

Man City out of Europe next two seasons - pending appeal.

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Post by McLaren on Fri 14 Feb 2020, 8:30 pm

I guess that means Pep out of Man City pending appeal.

(if he wasn't gone anyway)
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Post by JAS on Sat 15 Feb 2020, 8:03 am

I'm never wrong wrote:Man City out of Europe next two seasons - pending appeal.
What’s the difference between them & say PSG?

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Post by beninho on Sat 15 Feb 2020, 10:08 am

I'm not a fan of ffp in football, and definitely not at the champs league level. How are teams meant to join the elite rich, if they can't spend the money the elite rich have, a lot of which comes from the champs league.

It's a farce.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sat 15 Feb 2020, 10:35 am

beninho wrote:I'm not a fan of ffp in football,  and definitely not at the champs league level. How are teams meant to join the elite rich, if they can't spend the money the elite rich have, a lot of which comes from the champs league.

It's a farce.

The elite rich being Man City already Doh

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Post by I'm never wrong on Sat 15 Feb 2020, 11:21 am

beninho wrote:I'm not a fan of ffp in football,  and definitely not at the champs league level.
If you don't have something like FFP then it will be the same teams always winning the leagues and cups etc. No chance for the "lesser" teams to do a Leicester. Then the Champions League will consist of the same teams every year - like the oft mooted "European League". I want to see a mix of teams, variation of matches etc.

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Post by beninho on Sat 15 Feb 2020, 1:00 pm

What teams qualify for the champs league from England. Usually, the teams who qualified previously. These teams then get, sh£tloads in payments from UEFA and tv rights, and the thing generally goes round and round. And is generally the same in the big leagues in Europe

What lesser team has won the champs league, maybe Porto? But then they are in the Portuguese big 3 and always in Europe.

How does a club break into it, you have to spend, spend, spend. Like city have had to do over 10years or so. Then you risk the whole ffp.




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Post by beninho on Sat 15 Feb 2020, 1:01 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
beninho wrote:I'm not a fan of ffp in football,  and definitely not at the champs league level. How are teams meant to join the elite rich, if they can't spend the money the elite rich have, a lot of which comes from the champs league.

It's a farce.

The elite rich being Man City already Doh

Didn't really get the point. City have had to spend to join the big table, then keep spending to stay at the head. City have done this to join the big boys.

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Post by McLaren on Sat 15 Feb 2020, 1:20 pm

FFP is more about how the clubs are funded rather than making it easier for new clubs to join the super rich sphere. FFP is not ideal but it is the only system that stops entities like theAbu dhabi royal family ploughing GDP sized amounts of cash into European clubs. As imperfect as FFP is it keeps the disparity between the rich and poor shocking but not game breaking (so far).
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Post by Soul Requiem on Sat 15 Feb 2020, 1:25 pm

beninho wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
beninho wrote:I'm not a fan of ffp in football,  and definitely not at the champs league level. How are teams meant to join the elite rich, if they can't spend the money the elite rich have, a lot of which comes from the champs league.

It's a farce.

The elite rich being Man City already Doh

Didn't really get the point. City have had to spend to join the big table, then keep spending to stay at the head. City have done this to join the big boys.

I got the point, you like seeing needless spending in football. Out of interest what team do you follow?

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Post by beninho on Sat 15 Feb 2020, 1:46 pm

Wycombe Wanderers.

And yourself?

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sat 15 Feb 2020, 2:37 pm

I don't follow it any more because of the ridiculous money. I find it strange however that any sports fan can justify such spending.

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Post by beninho on Sat 15 Feb 2020, 3:47 pm

You stopped following because of money? Who was your team and when did you knock it on the head?

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Post by kwinigolfer on Sat 15 Feb 2020, 3:53 pm

I would say that, if there are no FFP controls, the next stage is a US-style franchise system, probably on a pan-Europe scale.
Then you're really taking sport away from the fans and making it potentially uncompetitive, again a la US sport.

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Post by McLaren on Sat 15 Feb 2020, 7:13 pm

Kwini

I hope you can see this in the US, but I thought you might find this interview of Paul Krugman by krishnan guru-murthy quite interesting. It covers some of the ideas we discussed recently about people voting against their own interests.

http://waystochangetheworld.libsyn.com/economist-paul-krugman-on-zombie-ideas-the-us-presidential-election-and-brexit
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Post by kwinigolfer on Sat 15 Feb 2020, 7:33 pm

McLaren wrote:Kwini

I hope you can see this in the US, but I thought you might find this interview of Paul Krugman by krishnan guru-murthy quite interesting. It covers some of the ideas we discussed recently about people voting against their own interests.

http://waystochangetheworld.libsyn.com/economist-paul-krugman-on-zombie-ideas-the-us-presidential-election-and-brexit


Mac,
Thanks, I'll look forward to watching it. Paul Krugman is brilliant - he and Robert Reich should be laying down all Democrat economic policy.

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Post by dynamark on Sun 16 Feb 2020, 11:38 am

I doubt any of us here know the full story /rules on footy FFP but rugby were brave enough to take a hit at Saracens recently on a similar theme .Leicester tigers were top dogs in rugby for a while because they had large crowds and wealthy backers.Man U have always been a huge club financially but Man City needed huge investment to hit that level.
Difficult but rules is rules

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Post by George1507 on Sun 16 Feb 2020, 12:20 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:I would say that, if there are no FFP controls, the next stage is a US-style franchise system, probably on a pan-Europe scale.
Then you're really taking sport away from the fans and making it potentially uncompetitive, again a la US sport.

Personally I think US sports are pretty competitive. The Nats won the World Series - hasn't happened before. And the Chiefs won the Superbowl - hasn't happened since 1970.
If you mean that you can't get into the league through promotion, then yes, that's true. It's a franchise.

In the FA Cup there were 16 winners in the 20 years between the wars. In the 20 years this century there have been 7. Football in Britain is just about a handful of clubs that win things, and the rest just move up and down the leagues hoping to keep the wolf from the door.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 16 Feb 2020, 12:28 pm

George1507 wrote:
kwinigolfer wrote:I would say that, if there are no FFP controls, the next stage is a US-style franchise system, probably on a pan-Europe scale.
Then you're really taking sport away from the fans and making it potentially uncompetitive, again a la US sport.

Personally I think US sports are pretty competitive. The Nats won the World Series - hasn't happened before. And the Chiefs won the Superbowl - hasn't happened since 1970.
If you mean that you can't get into the league through promotion, then yes, that's true. It's a franchise.

In the FA Cup there were 16 winners in the 20 years between the wars. In the 20 years this century there have been 7. Football in Britain is just about a handful of clubs that win things, and the rest just move up and down the leagues hoping to keep the wolf from the door.


George,
But on the other hand, you can maintain a so-so franchise for decades without the penalty of relegation; or you can stack the deck for a couple of years, than start all over again with uncompetitive teams, a la the Bawston Red Sox, the Miami Marlins (who might at last be good this year).
And half the teams (not quite in the NFL) make the play-offs rendering the "regular" season pretty much academic. MLB not quite there yet but under new proposals they soon would be.
(PS: The Nationals were in Montreal until recently - that's right, your Newcastle franchise can be relocated to Tunbridge Wells if the economy suits . . . . . . )

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Post by Shotrock on Sun 16 Feb 2020, 3:26 pm

The Nationals run was really amazing last year ... wild card play in, winning on the road, losing at home. I do wish there was relegation in baseball; at least give it a try.

Looks like there will be another (outside the 20 years) PL winner this year. Cue the American Musical song "YNWA".

Meanwhile Rory in beast mode ... hope he can finish it off.

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Post by pedro on Sun 16 Feb 2020, 8:49 pm

Football FFP sanctions seem to be as random as slow play penalties in golf.

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Post by JAS on Mon 17 Feb 2020, 7:40 am

pedro wrote:Football FFP sanctions seem to be as random as slow play penalties in golf.

FFP in European football is a random sham. Trouble is with football there’s way too much Oligarch money swilling around, add to that uefa officialdom with pockets like tarts handbags, what do we think is going to happen. The sub plot here is Juve are known to want Pep, wonder who’s working behind the scenes pushing Man City into the corner...call me conspiracy theorist.

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Post by super_realist on Mon 17 Feb 2020, 7:53 am

kwinigolfer wrote:
McLaren wrote:Kwini

I hope you can see this in the US, but I thought you might find this interview of Paul Krugman by krishnan guru-murthy quite interesting. It covers some of the ideas we discussed recently about people voting against their own interests.

http://waystochangetheworld.libsyn.com/economist-paul-krugman-on-zombie-ideas-the-us-presidential-election-and-brexit


Mac,
Thanks, I'll look forward to watching it. Paul Krugman is brilliant - he and Robert Reich should be laying down all Democrat economic policy.

Haven't you learnt anything from Dominic Cumming and Alistair Campbell Kwini? Having one or two people make the decisions is always problematic and myopic.

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Post by George1507 on Mon 17 Feb 2020, 8:51 am

kwinigolfer wrote:
George1507 wrote:
kwinigolfer wrote:I would say that, if there are no FFP controls, the next stage is a US-style franchise system, probably on a pan-Europe scale.
Then you're really taking sport away from the fans and making it potentially uncompetitive, again a la US sport.

Personally I think US sports are pretty competitive. The Nats won the World Series - hasn't happened before. And the Chiefs won the Superbowl - hasn't happened since 1970.
If you mean that you can't get into the league through promotion, then yes, that's true. It's a franchise.

In the FA Cup there were 16 winners in the 20 years between the wars. In the 20 years this century there have been 7. Football in Britain is just about a handful of clubs that win things, and the rest just move up and down the leagues hoping to keep the wolf from the door.


George,
But on the other hand, you can maintain a so-so franchise for decades without the penalty of relegation; or you can stack the deck for a couple of years, than start all over again with uncompetitive teams, a la the Bawston Red Sox, the Miami Marlins (who might at last be good this year).
And half the teams (not quite in the NFL) make the play-offs rendering the "regular" season pretty much academic. MLB not quite there yet but under new proposals they soon would be.
(PS: The Nationals were in Montreal until recently - that's right, your Newcastle franchise can be relocated to Tunbridge Wells if the economy suits . . . . . . )

Yes, I know all about that. I lived in NY for a few years, and the parents of some of my friends there had been Dodgers or Giants fans, to see them uprooted (right after good years) and moved 2800 miles west (that was before my time of course) but they followed the Mets from their inception onwards. My pals still go to watch the Dodgers and Giants in the hope they get crushed. Some serious history there.

And when in LA, I was never sure whether the Raiders were LA or Oakland..LA...Oakland. The Rams moved from St Louis, to LA and back, and back. And the Chargers started in LA, then moved to San Diego, and are now back. So in not too distant history there has been 0, 1, 2, and 3 NFL teams in LA.

Don't get me started on the LA Lakers. Los Angeles - famed for its lakes. Shocked

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Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 17 Feb 2020, 9:52 am

Or Utah, famed for its Jazz!

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Post by pedro on Mon 17 Feb 2020, 10:55 am

Strange thing with these US teams. Imagine if Manchester City moved to... well... never mind.

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Post by Roller_Coaster on Mon 17 Feb 2020, 11:06 am

pedro wrote:Strange thing with these US teams. Imagine if Manchester City moved to... well... never mind.

Imagine if Manchester United moved to Manchester.

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Post by dynamark on Mon 17 Feb 2020, 2:57 pm

If you have ever been to old Trafford there are few locals there.More chance of being sat next to a fella from Japan .But its a global brand . Liverpool I believe is similar a lot of irish

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Post by Soul Requiem on Mon 17 Feb 2020, 3:08 pm

dynamark wrote:If you have ever been to old Trafford there are few locals there.More chance of being sat next to a fella from Japan .But its a global brand . Liverpool I believe is similar a lot of irish

That simply isn't true and is just a lazy comment to make.

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Post by beninho on Mon 17 Feb 2020, 3:21 pm

We have a prime minister who is sticking with his advisor who has some damn right crazy views.

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Post by JAS on Mon 17 Feb 2020, 4:40 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
dynamark wrote:If you have ever been to old Trafford there are few locals there.More chance of being sat next to a fella from Japan .But its a global brand . Liverpool I believe is similar a lot of irish

That simply isn't true and is just a lazy comment to make.

How do you know? Is there some kind of crowd census?

Some teams do have a bigger “non-local” support than others but how do you define/measure it and be able to say one way or the other? I used to follow one of the old firm and going up the a77 on a Saturday you could be forgiven for thinking most of their support came from Northern Ireland with all the NI based supporters buses. Once near the ground however you realised that there was a significant contingent from NI but it was nowhere near the majority.


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Post by Be_the_ball on Mon 17 Feb 2020, 6:28 pm

dynamark wrote:If you have ever been to old Trafford there are few locals there.More chance of being sat next to a fella from Japan .But its a global brand . Liverpool I believe is similar a lot of irish

There are Irish supporters at most EPL grounds, and a lot of other grounds too. Theres a very big Leeds UTD support base here too. Liverpool I would say is the biggest supported club (and Jesus they are insufferable at the moment).
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/english-soccer/how-english-football-is-still-the-biggest-draw-for-irish-fans-1.4012936

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Post by beninho on Mon 17 Feb 2020, 8:53 pm

The number 10 advisor been got rid of. How did it take so long!

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Post by super_realist on Tue 18 Feb 2020, 7:50 am

JAS wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
dynamark wrote:If you have ever been to old Trafford there are few locals there.More chance of being sat next to a fella from Japan .But its a global brand . Liverpool I believe is similar a lot of irish

That simply isn't true and is just a lazy comment to make.

How do you know? Is there some kind of crowd census?

Some teams do have a bigger “non-local” support than others but how do you define/measure it and be able to say one way or the other? I used to follow one of the old firm and going up the a77 on a Saturday you could be forgiven for thinking most of their support came from Northern Ireland with all the NI based supporters buses. Once near the ground however you realised that there was a significant contingent from NI but it was nowhere near the majority.


Life must be unbearable in Northern Ireland if you'd leave your front door to watch either half of the Ugly Sisters. It looks grim in Ulster, but to pick Glasgow as an alternative shows just how bad it must be there.

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Post by super_realist on Tue 18 Feb 2020, 8:04 am

When will these people stop blaming the government for flooding? What do people expect them to do? It's not their responsibility in most cases.
Rivers belong to the land owner, not the council. It's the land owners responsibility to keep the water course clear of obstructions and debris, not the government or local council. The council is only responsible for surface water in towns outwith the boundary of people's property.

"Dredging" also does nothing and simply gives you an tiny increase in capacity, it's the low height of the bank which is most important. A river naturally has a capacity for only a very small increase in volume, that's why they don't occupy the floodplain 99% of the time. These rivers would flood regardless if the amount of water in the last few days fell.
Buy on a floodplain and you've only got yourself to blame. That's the only thing you can blame the council for, granting building permission on a suspect area, but most of these properties predate the Flood Prevention Act

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Post by beninho on Tue 18 Feb 2020, 8:53 am

Newspapers showing themselves up again over the Caroline Flack situation. Previously reporting how she could of killed the guy, now it's all just a small issue that has been overblown. And people seem to be saying she shouldn't have been prosecuted due to her celebrity status. It's a tragic story, but it all came from her own actions unfortunately.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Tue 18 Feb 2020, 9:19 am

beninho wrote:Newspapers showing themselves up again over the Caroline Flack situation. Previously reporting how she could of killed the guy, now it's all just a small issue that has been overblown. And people seem to be saying she shouldn't have been prosecuted due to her celebrity status. It's a tragic story, but it all came from her own actions unfortunately.

Terrible thing to happen but I do wonder what people expect the CPS to do, were it the other way round and it was a man leaving his partner bloodied and bruised I doubt people would be complaining about their decision. It's also based on public disorder and the effect (very little in reality) it has on neighbours. The love island generation are up in arms about the media and their handling of it but what they fail to understand is that the tabloids do what they do because it sells papers and consumers buy them because of it. There's also the issue that love island itself is basically a gossip column in television form, if you're against the papers you can't really be for such gutter TV.

Depression and ultimately suicide are horrible things but people need to realise the role they play in it with regards to those in the media spotlight.

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Post by beninho on Tue 18 Feb 2020, 9:25 am

The vast majority of social media I have read is backing up the cps decision, which is good.

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Post by JAS on Tue 18 Feb 2020, 11:36 am

beninho wrote:Newspapers showing themselves up again over the Caroline Flack situation. Previously reporting how she could of killed the guy, now it's all just a small issue that has been overblown. And people seem to be saying she shouldn't have been prosecuted due to her celebrity status. It's a tragic story, but it all came from her own actions unfortunately.

I did read somewhere at the weekend that the Sun was frantically backtracking through its website deleting articles where it was having a pop at her. I’d take the view that nobody knows what was in the girls head but one things for sure, whatever demons she did have they would have flourished under the media intrusion. The Sun and the likes of it are up to their necks in promoting the kind of culture the troubled media stars struggle to cope with. For them to then turn round and start pointing the finger at the CPS is pathetic. It’s really not the CPS’s remit to be picky and sensitive to individuals.

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Post by super_realist on Wed 19 Feb 2020, 7:56 am

beninho wrote:The vast majority of social media I have read is backing up the cps decision, which is good.

For once I agree with you Beninho. The issue here is that the CPS are duty bound to prosecute on the grounds that backing down on the request of the injured party could mean this has been encouraged by the accused.
Flack clearly had mental problems in retrospect, but a violent act cannot go unpunished and it would have been absurd to let her off on the basis of celebrity or gender. You can't blame the CPS, you can't really blame the papers either. I sincerely doubt that any punishment would have been severe, in fact I would imagine it would be nothing more than a suspended sentence once her team had provided evidence of mental health issues. Her killing herself was not because of the law or the papers, it was her own mental state and should not be considered as linked.

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Post by beninho on Wed 19 Feb 2020, 8:05 am

I read someone say people with mh issues should not be held accountable. Well it's one way to decrease the prison population, as a vast number of inmates suffer some form of mh condition. But it's clearly a bonkers view.

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Post by beninho on Wed 19 Feb 2020, 8:07 am

Saw the Brits last night for my yearly reminder I'm out of touch with music. Though a great performance by Dave, and from what I've heard he is very good. And a good performance from Stormzy. And for you Scots, Capaldi represented with a bottle of buckfast.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Wed 19 Feb 2020, 8:09 am

beninho wrote:I read someone say people with mh issues should not be held accountable. Well it's one way to decrease the prison population, as a vast number of inmates suffer some form of mh condition. But it's clearly a bonkers view.

There are so many people who don't understand what mental health is and the social media generation seem to think sadness and depression are the same thing when they're not. It's a problem no doubt but not to the extent that it is made out to be.

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