PGA Tour: Florida Swing, Part 2: Bay Hill: More Notes from the Ballwasher

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Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 27 Feb 2020, 2:24 am

First topic message reminder :

1).The four tournament Florida Swing gets underway with the Honda Classic at PGA National - difficult enough for the pros but unforgiving to hackers.
Keith Mitchell is defending champ at the Honda Classic.
Francesco Molinari defends at Bay Hill.
Rory at The Players
And Paul Casey has won the past two Valspar Championships.

2).This is obviously a compressed part of the schedule - Justin Thomas won Honda a couple of years ago, but he's missing this week, no longer on his must do list.
princedrac reckons that only Riviera this year has had a stronger field in 2020 than in 2019.
Only FOUR top 60 Americans playing.
But SIX top 60 Englishmen.

3).I don't know what other long-time observers think, but it seems to me the Bermuda Greens experts have slightly less of an advantage than for previous generations.
No longer would Watson not be able to win in Florida while Trevino could never win in California.
Fer instance.
But Keith Mitchell may reveal himself to be an exception, so it'll be interesting to see how he fares this week.

4).The Top 50 from this coming Monday's owgr will qualify for The Players, then only five or six weeks before that will also be the benchmark for an Augusta invite. Time to get going for that one Poults. (Who should have won this a few years ago but for an untimely pandemic of the shanks.)

5).But on a more serious note, how will golf cope if China's germ warfare spreads more readily across the world? A conundrum that one doubts anyone (not Olympic organisers either) was thinking about a month ago. How will international players react if the US tries to close borders, as Trump TV advocated so strongly during the ebola outbreak? (Thank goodness for Cuba's doctors during that one - doubt they'll be called upon this time, not in the US anyway.)

6).High time a British golfer not called Rory (or Graeme) wins again on Tour, Casey was the last almost a year ago. Time for Fleetwood & Wallace to strut their stuff and for Poults and Rose to show they still have what it takes.

7).It's going to be breezy at Bay Hill, downright windy for Round 1 if Thursday's forecast is correct.

8).Francesco Molinari defends his thrilling win last March, but his only PGA Tour Top 20's since last year's Masters disappointment were at Portrush and Pebble Beach (US Open).

9).Non-Americans have won the past for Arnie Invitationals, Leishman & Day, Rory & Franny, and the International flavour extended all the way down the leaderboard last year, Keith Mitchell being the only American inside the Top Ten.
Including 2nd: Fitzpatrick
T3: Rafa C-B, Fleetwood
T6: Wallace, Rory

10).Hopefully Tommy can put last week's disappointment behind him, but don't overlook Henrik Stenson who has a fantastic record here without winning. Yet.


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Post by robopz on Tue 03 Mar 2020, 11:45 pm

beninho wrote:Could an event, not invite him?
if he is exempt by some means, which he is for most every regular event, they can't disinvite him unless he's officially suspended by the tour.

And Kwini, the Tour did express their "disappointment". IMO that's sufficient. Not suspending him is not "having it both ways".

And I just want to be clear... I AM NOT DEFENDING PIERCY ON THIS. Just not in a favor of the PGA Tour instituting a "PC Police" operation...

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Post by GPB on Tue 03 Mar 2020, 11:58 pm

PD put out a tweet the other day saying that TF has made 33 straight cuts.

16 of those events were no cut events.

And if you think he still would have made the cut in those WGCs, FEX Playoffs, and RtD Rolex events (Turkey, Nedbank and Dubai) think again.

Look at the 2019 HSBC, from 4 months ago.

TF was T72nd after 36 holes.

PD countered with an irrelevant comment. That all the World Class players play in that ~many no cut events. Whoosh, did he miss the point.

You cannot miss a cut that doesn't exist. I believe Morikawa has the current Made Cut streak with events that actually have cuts.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 04 Mar 2020, 1:48 am

robopz wrote:
beninho wrote:Could an event, not invite him?
if he is exempt by some means, which he is for most every regular event, they can't disinvite him unless he's officially suspended by the tour.

And Kwini, the Tour did express their "disappointment". IMO that's sufficient. Not suspending him is not "having it both ways".

And I just want to be clear... I AM NOT DEFENDING PIERCY ON THIS. Just not in a favor of the PGA Tour instituting a "PC Police" operation...


Not doing anything is pretty close to an endorsement of Piercy's filth. As said earlier, just playing to his base.

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Post by robopz on Wed 04 Mar 2020, 2:54 am

kwinigolfer wrote:Not doing anything is pretty close to an endorsement of Piercy's filth. As said earlier, just playing to his base.
If the Tour saying they were disappointed in his comments somehow translates as an endorsement of what he said/posted, then I guess better brush up on my English.

And as for Piercy's "base". I don't know who that is, but I'd bet ya dollars to donuts its a heck of a lot smaller today than it was a few days ago.

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Post by super_realist on Wed 04 Mar 2020, 7:51 am

Shotrock wrote:Robo - Perhaps the (mostly American) announcers, particularly the outspoken ones, alienate a few armchair QB's on forums like this, BUT the numbers clearly support healthy, growing contracts for broadcast rights on the Big Tour. I don't understand why some people watch "unwatchable" broadcasts. Maybe it's a pleasure/pain thing? Who knows.

Me, I sort of watch it for the golf.

And speaking of actual play, are you hearing any grumblings from the players about the reduced fields?




We watch for the golf, not the cringeworthy, state the obvious commentary. However, if we are going to criticise American coverage, then you need to look at how many shots are played out of sync, how much they focus only on the top three, how much they focus on Botox Woods, even when he's stinking the house out and how much they focus on Americans to the detriment of anyone who isn't.

The European Tour might not be as big a tour as the PGA, but they are far better at producing and broadcasting an event. Even the highlights on YouTube are considerably better.

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Post by beninho on Wed 04 Mar 2020, 7:53 am

My issue, is the claim that that he cant be suspended because he is self employed. But anyone who has a failed drug test can be banned.

In football, the premier league can ban players from appearing if they seem it as misconduct. Andre gray was banned for historical homophobic tweets, I think Dele has recently been charged aswell.

Surely, if you tweet something homophobic it's a shut and cut case of misconduct, and i would presume they have a code if conduct.

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Post by super_realist on Wed 04 Mar 2020, 8:00 am

beninho wrote:My issue, is the claim that that he cant be suspended because he is self employed. But anyone who has a failed drug test can be banned.

In football, the premier league can ban players from appearing if they seem it as misconduct. Andre gray was banned for historical homophobic tweets, I think Dele has recently been charged aswell.

Surely, if you tweet something homophobic it's a shut and cut case of misconduct, and i would presume they have a code if conduct.

I can't see how the claim he is self employed could trump the fact that he's a member of the PGA, which surely takes precedence. If he's broken their rules (providing they have them for things like this) then he ought to face punishment, at the very least for bringing the PGA into disrepute by association.

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Post by McLaren on Wed 04 Mar 2020, 10:59 am

robopz wrote:Wait a minute... So now we want Monahan and the Tour to regulate players personal beliefs and politics?  Wow... Who gets the draw the lines on that?  The new PGA Tour "thought police"  committee?  

The dumbass pic and his comments were Piercy's not the Tour's. He's not an employee, he doesn't work for them.  So it's HIS bed, let him lie in it. And if he loses sponsors and such over it, so be it.  

Piercy is free to say whatever he wants, that doesn't mean he gets to say whatever he wants without consequences.

And as we know most indiscretions the tour feels the need to intervene go on behind closed doors because the PGAT sells itself to sponsors as the squeaky clean honorable sport and publicizing player punishments wouldn't be good for this image. It would be nice to think that homophobia was one of the things that would have a player take a few weeks off.
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Post by McLaren on Wed 04 Mar 2020, 11:06 am

beninho wrote:My issue, is the claim that that he cant be suspended because he is self employed. But anyone who has a failed drug test can be banned.

In football, the premier league can ban players from appearing if they seem it as misconduct. Andre gray was banned for historical homophobic tweets, I think Dele has recently been charged aswell.

Surely, if you tweet something homophobic it's a shut and cut case of misconduct, and i would presume they have a code if conduct.

Yes, good points. I would be interested to know if the culture around sports star behavior is different in the US but in the current climate Piercy would have been banned for that if the PGAT was run in the UK.
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Post by robopz on Wed 04 Mar 2020, 12:04 pm

To be clear, private contractor or direct employee, the PGA tour has the right to issue discipline to either when warranted.  But the reality is they're going to handle somebody who's on the tours payroll differently than somebody who's not. ie members

Now that said... I don't know if you guys have even seen what he posted. It was BS, dumb and certainly "not funny".  But my gosh, if that rises to the level of suspension considering the putrid cesspool of political discourse we have going on over in this country these days... Then this really IS a scary scary world we live in...

 Now if there was a pattern of this, and he's been warned, and continued posting stuff like this anyway... Ok... That's another matter.  But that's not the case here. The Tour responsed, Piercy pulled it and apologized... But its still on him to suffer the fall out...

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Post by navyblueshorts on Wed 04 Mar 2020, 1:18 pm

robopz wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
robopz wrote:Only thing I could say to that Kwini... The American broadcasters & golf media can't hold a candle to the European side in jingoism.  Man talk about a bunch of who can dish it out but can't take it...  Here's looking at you Huggin, Lynch, Carter, Murray, etc, etc...

So... If we think the issue isn't what Azinger actually said, but instead its he wasn't sufficiently "woke enough" or qualifying enough, or ego massaging enough in the way he said it... then it's hard to disagree on that point at least.
Laugh laughing Azinger thinks that because pop was military, that makes him some sort of hard man. He's an A-grade, archetype prat. Maybe he thinks he has to somehow stand out as a commentator in a field of beige rubbish? Is he trying to be harder/more controversial than Chamblee? Who knows? I doubt he has the self-awareness to know wtf he's doing.

Excellent player in his day. Shame about the rest.
IMO analyst today are in no win situation. Either they're "beige" as you put it, or they're willing to speak their mind.  But beware the latter, cuz its sure to raise somebody's hackles.  See Johnny Miller, Nick Faldo, McCord... Etc...
Yeah; true enough. There are better ways to state a point though. Azinger is just being spiky for its own sake. He (and others) can make the same points in a less deliberately controversial fashion I'm sure. That they choose not to says a lot about them.
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Post by Shotrock on Wed 04 Mar 2020, 2:19 pm

I absolutely think the networks enjoy a bit of controversy. Attention like this hardly ever negatively impacts ratings.

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Post by robopz on Wed 04 Mar 2020, 3:27 pm

Shotrock wrote:I absolutely think the networks enjoy a bit of controversy. Attention like this hardly ever negatively impacts ratings.
on something like this? Absolutely...:-)

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Post by McLaren on Wed 04 Mar 2020, 3:39 pm

Don't know if anyone else on here listens to the McKellar golf podcast but they were discussing how it was the tone of Zingers comments that wrankled a lot of people.

It comes out weekly'ish and is worth listening to if you don't already. It is hosted by Lawrence Donegan and usually features John Huggan.
https://www.mckellarmagazine.com/podcast/


I don't get the magazine but I imagine that would be of interest to some on here.
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Post by GPB on Wed 04 Mar 2020, 4:14 pm

Mac- I don't see a podcast on the screen that was made AFTER Zinger's comment on that page. Last one I see is #32 dated Feb 25th. I am always looking for podcasts about golf that doesn't involve instruction or architecture

But again. Really. Its not what he said but how he said it? I'll re.peat my statement from earlier. Cry me a River. Snowflake City! Get me WHAAAABURGER and an order of Cries.


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Post by McLaren on Wed 04 Mar 2020, 4:18 pm

GPB

I subscribe to it through my podcast app on my phone, I just posted the site for info. It showed up this morning (UK time) for me.


But how you say something matters, in zingers case it was the difference between making a stale point about the PGAT being a bigger beast than the ET, and it coming off like he was relishing belittling Westwood and other top Europeans wins. I have no particular liking for European golfers but I will happily highlight where US (PGAT) exceptionalism sounds ridiculous.

And as Super has pointed out to me many times I am hyper woke, so we might as well throw snowflake into the mix.
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Post by McLaren on Wed 04 Mar 2020, 4:27 pm

Another thing I learnt from the McKellar podcast this morning was that DJ has pulled out of contention for a US Olympic spot. He apparently didn't mention corona virus as a reason but how lucky is it for the top players to have another potential pandemic to cover up the fact they just can't be arsed with the Olympics.
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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 04 Mar 2020, 4:47 pm

McLaren wrote:Another thing I learnt from the McKellar podcast this morning was that DJ has pulled out of contention for a US Olympic spot. He apparently didn't mention corona virus as a reason but how lucky is it for the top players to have another potential pandemic to cover up the fact they just can't be arsed with the Olympics.


But how will he justify his decision if the Olympics are rescheduled??!!
(Would think DJ & Koepka would be among the first to jump to any new golf venture.)

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Post by McLaren on Wed 04 Mar 2020, 6:00 pm

Kwini

So do you think those wishing to play in the PGL will pull out the Olympics?
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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 04 Mar 2020, 6:20 pm

McLaren wrote:Kwini

So do you think those wishing to play in the PGL will pull out the Olympics?

Mac,
Not a clue.
Just thinking aloud that there's probably a profile of guys who may find PGL attractive. Koepka has pretty much intimated that he'll play golf for the highest bidder.

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Post by beninho on Wed 04 Mar 2020, 7:57 pm

Just saw a bit of the old boys golf. Bernie, probably more right wing then Sanders, won. But how is he still putting like that?

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Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 04 Mar 2020, 8:52 pm

beninho wrote:Just saw a bit of the old boys golf. Bernie, probably more right wing then Sanders, won. But how is he still putting like that?


He's pulling their plonker ben, Scott McCarron also.

Back to Florida and the forecast for Bay Hill tomorrow is for strong winds and waterballs.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 12:18 pm

It looks as if Molinari's title defence is over before it starts.
Can't find official confirmation of that, but he's disappeared from the "leaderboard".

EDIT: Here we go: Bad back for Franny according to initial reports. Which must make him a bit dodgy for The Players, where he has several strong finishes.

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Post by I'm never wrong on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 5:59 pm

Just seen on TV a lady checking Phil’s clubs on the first tee. She seemed official or possibly media related. Wasn’t counting them, she was finding out exactly what each club was then writing them down on a form. I wouldn’t have let her (or anyone) anywhere near my clubs.

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Post by beninho on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 6:03 pm

Just checked scores to see Rory top. He is easily playing the best golf in the world. Just checked the owgr site, and his run since the British open is something else. You also forget he won not long ago in China.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 6:06 pm

I'm never wrong wrote:Just seen on TV a lady checking Phil’s clubs on the first tee. She seemed official or possibly media related. Wasn’t counting them, she was finding out exactly what each club was then writing them down on a form. I wouldn’t have let her (or anyone) anywhere near my clubs.


Each player has his clubs checked, not for any conformance issue but for registering what equipment each player is using. Nothing sinister about this but it happens (I believe) before play begins at every PGA Tour event.

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Post by Shotrock on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 6:08 pm

Clearly the World #1 and in stride. This is the year he finally gets his green jacket. And maybe a gold medal for Ireland?

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Post by I'm never wrong on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 6:48 pm

Thanks Kwini. I suppose she might have asked and Phil said "Help yourself"

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Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 7:26 pm

Shotrock wrote:Clearly the World #1 and in stride. This is the year he finally gets his green jacket. And maybe a gold medal for Ireland?


Sure Rory is acceptable to the NBC crew. Though if Tyrrell Hatton improves his early position (T3), imagine Zinger will have an aneurysm.
Poults going nicely but Tommy off to a slow start.

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Post by Shotrock on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 7:34 pm

American announcers like Irish golfers. Typical of the British press, however, to continue their anti-Finnish ways! Shocked

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Post by beninho on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 8:03 pm



Just because the mention of Finland always makes me think of this clip. Not hold related but very funny.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 9:30 pm

The only American to win Bay Hill, other than Tiger Woods, in the past 15 years is Matt Every, who has multiple wins there to go with his multiple Tour suspensions.
And now he's cruised into T2, with six holes left to play. Keep your nose clean Matt, don't let all this good work go to pot.

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Post by beninho on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 9:38 pm

Think it's more don't let it go up in smoke for Every.

On par 3s, when they make them longer, 220/230 yards, do they ever think about what the green was designed for. A higher lifter club and higher shot. Rather then lower 6 irons?

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Post by beninho on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 9:51 pm

J Lindberg, Titleist and footjoy all drop Piercey.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 10:00 pm

beninho wrote:J Lindberg, Titleist and footjoy all drop Piercey.


Woh Hoo!
He's always come across as a miserable, entitled sod - good that there are some adults in sponsors' boardrooms. Will the Tour take the hint?


Uncanny how well Every plays here . . . . . . . .

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Post by GPB on Thu 05 Mar 2020, 11:14 pm

Every does t always play well at the API. After his win in 2015, Every has gone MC, T62, MC, MC in the last four years at Bay Hill.

The NoLayingUp podcast recently interviewed South African Eric Van Rooyan.

His comments about the Presidents Cup (beginning a little after the 36 minute mark) contradict many of the comments from some of the Prez Cup critics on this board

NLU: Is the Prez Cup bigger than American treat it
EVR: Absoultely

(and then goes on about how disappointed he was not to make the team, and he lobbied to EE for a Captains Pick)

And how disappointed he was not to make the team..

https://player.fm/series/no-laying-up-golf-podcast

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Post by robopz on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 12:56 am


99.9% likely that was Darrell survey... They've been doing that at every tournament for decades. It's original purpose was for the equipment manufacturers to be able to verify they're paid staff was actually playing the correct equipment.  They do on the European tour also.  When you see those Titlest ads or something that says 97 competitors playing our ball at Bay Hill... Or some company claims the most used driver on Tour... That's the data where those claims come from.

Edit... Oops originally posted this as a reply under the wrong post... This was about the lady checking clubs on the tee...


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Post by robopz on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 12:59 am

beninho wrote:J Lindberg, Titleist and footjoy all drop Piercey.
Bingo... As I said... His bed, he can lie in it.

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Post by robopz on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 1:11 am

Deleted...


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Post by robopz on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 1:14 am

Deleted... Sorry, having posting issues on my phone tonight... My bad


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Post by robopz on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 1:14 am

kwinigolfer wrote:Woh Hoo!
He's always come across as a miserable, entitled sod - good that there are some adults in sponsors' boardrooms. Will the Tour take the hint?
Before this, my guess is you would have really liked Piercy if you had ever met him. He's a real nice guy, he doesn't treat the little people like little people. Hangs out with fans around events and such, gets along with pretty much everybody, despite his politics.

As for Tour action on Piercy... My guess is 99.9% he gets a strongly worded letter from the tour, if not direct communication for Monahan... 25% he gets a fine to go along with it.  1% they'll take any further action.  I don't think the Tour has joined the kneejerk outrage society... at least not yet...

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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 2:24 am

robo,
We followed him at Turning Stone about 2009, something like that, a tournament that he could well have won. Fell apart on the back nine and behaved like the proverbial spoiled brat.
Always had him down as a wonderful ball-striker, but that day he came across as an arrogant t0ssp0t and haven't seen anything since to change that image.
As they say, you only get one chance to make a first impression. Sounds like members of that group he belongs to, which I'd never heard of before, are off the charts. Playing to his base.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 11:25 am

kwinigolfer wrote:The only American to win Bay Hill, other than Tiger Woods, in the past 15 years is Matt Every, who has multiple wins there to go with his multiple Tour suspensions.
And now he's cruised into T2, with six holes left to play. Keep your nose clean Matt, don't let all this good work go to pot.
Laugh Laugh Laugh clap
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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 11:38 am

Further to all that:
Interesting piece on golfchannel.com about Matt Every and his habit/therapy:

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/again-top-bay-hill-matt-every-pushing-back-tours-marijuana-stance



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Post by robopz on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 2:13 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Further to all that:
Interesting piece on golfchannel.com about Matt Every and his habit/therapy:

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/again-top-bay-hill-matt-every-pushing-back-tours-marijuana-stance


I believe Every has a lot more support on that cannabis thing among fellow players than people might think... I wouldn't be one of them, but they are out there in bunches.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 2:28 pm

robopz wrote:
kwinigolfer wrote:Further to all that:
Interesting piece on golfchannel.com about Matt Every and his habit/therapy:

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/again-top-bay-hill-matt-every-pushing-back-tours-marijuana-stance


I believe Every has a lot more support on that cannabis thing among fellow players than people might think...  I wouldn't be one of them, but they are out there in bunches.
Sure you're correct.

“My short-term memory isn't very good,” he said. “That is a strength sometimes.”

Yeah, or maybe a long-term effect of jazz cabbage usage. Ditto, anxiety.

All that aside, the rules may need looking at, but he shouldn't ranting about how, having been caught breaking them, he's been hard done by. By all means have a toke, but there may be consequences.

Like his take on CBD though: "...I've tried other options. Snake oil. I mean, CBD oil, whatever."
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Post by robopz on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 4:34 pm

Well... Maybe Every didn't get enough toke last night. He goes from first round leader to +8 after 11 holes and +1 overall. Cut looks like it's going to be +2. Or +3

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Post by beninho on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 4:57 pm

Was Every medically prescribed cannabis, or was he just blazing up like a teenager? Isn't it legal in most states anyway?

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Post by GPB on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 5:29 pm

Well, there goes Fleetwood's made cut streak. 76-76. If Morikawa can make the cut, he will be have the longest active made cut streak on the PGATour. but other than a T7 at a very short field Tournament of Champions and T10 at Safeway, he has not had a Top 20 finish since his win at Reno-Tahoe. Good playing, but nothing outstanding.

robopz wrote:Well... Maybe Every didn't get enough toke last night. He goes from first round leader to +8 after 11 holes and +1 overall. Cut looks like it's going to be +2. Or +3

Every is now at +2, currently inside the cut line, but it is definitely trending towards +2.

Wonder when the last time a 1st round leader missed the cut.

I know it happened when Rod Pampling was the solo first round leader at Carnoustie in 1999 with a 71 He missed the cut by three shots after shooting 86 in the 2nd round.

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Post by I'm never wrong on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 5:29 pm

Poulter probably missing the cut. He's qualified for The Players, but I don't know how far he will drop. Wondering if he will survive to get into the Matchplay. Currently 56 OWGR. (He's also qualified for The Masters, The Open and PGA but not US Open as yet.)

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