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England Team for MS

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lostinwales
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Post by Portnoy Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:04 pm


Johnson makes 13 changes in team to face Wales 11 August 2011

England Team to face Wales
Player Club
15 Ben Foden Northampton Saints
14 Chris Ashton Northampton Saints
13 Mike Tindall (C) Gloucester Rugby
12 Shontayne Hape London Irish
11 Mark Cueto Sale Sharks
10 Toby Flood Leicester Tigers
9 Richard Wigglesworth Saracens
1 Alex Corbisiero London Irish
2 Steve Thompson London Wasps
3 Dan Cole Leicester Tigers
4 Louis Deacon Leicester Tigers
5 Courtney Lawes Northampton Saints
6 Tom Wood Northampton Saints
7 Hendrie Fourie Sale Sharks
8 Nick Easter Harlequins
Replacements
Player Club
16 Lee Mears Bath Rugby
17 Matt Stevens Saracens
18 Tom Palmer Stade Francais
19 James Haskell Ricoh Black Rams
20 Danny Care Harlequins
21 Charlie Hodgson Saracens
22 Matt Banahan Bath Rugby


Corbisiero and Cueto the only survivors from last weekend's win against Wales
Tindall returns and takes the captaincy

England Team Manager Martin Johnson has handed the captaincy to Mike Tindall ahead of this weekend’s clash with Wales in Cardiff. Capped 70 times for his country, the Gloucester centre, who first led England at the Millennium Stadium in this year’s RBS 6 Nations, is one of 13 changes made to the starting XV that secured a 23-19 victory over Wales at Twickenham last weekend.

Only Alex Corbisiero and Mark Cueto start for a consecutive week as Johnson rotates his squad ahead of Rugby World Cup selection on August 22. Richard Wigglesworth gets the nod at number nine, partnering Toby Flood in a back line which otherwise replicates that which started all but one of England’s 2011 RBS 6 Nations matches.

Northampton Saints flanker Tom Wood, who won his first cap in England’s 26-19 win over Wales back in February, joins Hendre Fourie and Nick Easter in a back row starting together for the first time. Fourie collects his second England start and wins his first cap away from home.

Looking ahead to the game Martin Johnson said: “Last weekend’s match was hugely competitive and we expect more of the same as we prepare to travel to the Millennium Stadium. We took a lot out of Saturday’s game and this weekend gives the selected players their opportunity and a chance for us to improve our overall performance.”


Last edited by Portnoy on Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:22 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : edit)
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Post by screamingaddabs Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:06 pm

If that's right the Robshaw out cry on here will be deafening...
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Post by leachy15 Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:06 pm

15 Ben Foden - Northampton Saints
14 Chris Ashton - Northampton Saints
13 Mike Tindall (C) - Gloucester Rugby
12 Shontayne Hape - London Irish
11 Mark Cueto - Sale Sharks
10 Toby Flood - Leicester Tigers
9 Richard Wigglesworth - Saracens
1 Alex Corbisiero - London Irish
2 Steve Thompson - London Wasps
3 Dan Cole Leicester - Tigers
4 Louis Deacon - Leicester Tigers
5 Courtney Lawes - Northampton Saints
6 Tom Wood - Northampton Saints
7 Hendrie Fourie - Sale Sharks
8 Nick Easter - Harlequins

Replacements
16 Lee Mears - Bath Rugby
17 Matt Stevens - Saracens
18 Tom Palmer - Stade Francais
19 James Haskell - Ricoh Black Rams
20 Danny Care - Harlequins
21 Charlie Hodgson - Saracens
22 Matt Banahan - Bath Rugby

Can I ask if Ben Youngs is injuried? Just I haven't heard anything about him of late?

This is from the RFU website.

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Post by Portnoy Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:07 pm

screamingaddabs wrote:If that's right the Robshaw out cry on here will be deafening...

http://www.rfu.com/News/2011/August/News%20Articles/110811_Eng_team_Wal.aspx
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Post by screamingaddabs Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:12 pm

Cool, it looks fairly official then.

Why are England players baking in the background of the site though? Headscratch

I think the team looks pretty much as expected except for the lack of Robshaw. I assume Sheridan is still injured as I'd like to see how his form is. Is Banahan our 12 cover as well as 13?

Hodgson probably needs some time to show if we should take him, I reckon he may only get 10 minutes or so though unfortunately

Yes I believe Youngs is still recovering from Knee surgery.


Last edited by screamingaddabs on Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by dummy_half Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:13 pm

First the good news - no Payne either on the field or the bench.

Would have preferred to see Monye given a go instead of Cueto, and Robshaw at least being on the bench. Otherwise not too unhappy.

Much closer to the recent first choice XV than last week, so I expect an improved performance.

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Post by MBTGOG Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:13 pm

Leachy, the topics have been merged so as not to make a pile up.

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Post by yappysnap Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:13 pm

More gutted that he's stuck with Cueto, where are Sharples or Monye?! Not even on the bench ffs!

And you can guarantee he'll be playing that back three against Ireland as well so that's their chances out the window.

Seriously Cueto again? It is so depressing.

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Post by flyhalffactory Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:13 pm

Bl00dy hells bells that a tasty looking 15, and same for the bench.

Its going to be a cracker
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Post by screamingaddabs Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:15 pm

Oh yeah, no Monye or Sharples. Odd....
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Post by Portnoy Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:19 pm

screamingaddabs wrote:Oh yeah, no Monye or Sharples. Odd....

Just an alternate outfit prior to probably electing the RWC top squad for Dublin.
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Post by screamingaddabs Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:24 pm

Portnoy wrote:
screamingaddabs wrote:Oh yeah, no Monye or Sharples. Odd....

Just an alternate outfit prior to probably electing the RWC top squad for Dublin.

Fine to put forward an alternative outfit as you say, but he hasn't given any game time to Monye yet and only a few minutes to Sharples. As I expect a full strength team for Ireland I think it's odd that he hasn't tried these two in this game. That means they either won't be in the final squad or he will put them in the final squad with either very little or no game time. If it's the former then I suppose that's fair enough, but I just find it odd that he isn't looking at them in this game (especially Monye who he seems to like).

I think the team looks quite good though, I'm not whingeing about it (much Smile)
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Post by yappysnap Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:24 pm

Does Wood usually play 6 for Saints?

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:25 pm

yappysnap wrote:More gutted that he's stuck with Cueto, where are Sharples or Monye?! Not even on the bench ffs!

And you can guarantee he'll be playing that back three against Ireland as well so that's their chances out the window.

Seriously Cueto again? It is so depressing.

Playing the first choice in his position becauyse hes short of gametime isnt that stupid. This ones clealry about getting the first choice backs together as a unit.
Would like to see one of Monye or Sharples given a start in the 3rd game though

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Post by beshocked Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:26 pm

Surprisingly not too disappointed with that team. Very predictable. Only changes I would make would put in Robshaw instead of the overrated Hendre Fourie and Charlie Sharples or Ugo Monye instead of Cueto.

Good to see Stevens on the bench so he can pummel the Welsh scrum when he comes on.

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Post by yappysnap Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:26 pm

Shame Simpson didn't get the bench spot either. Anyone think he'll get a look in for the Ireland game? Will Youngs be fit by then?

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:27 pm

As a Welshman I'm not happy to see Lawes, Ashton and Foden back. I still think Flood can be got at and we should be looking to rattle him, but we'll have to watch for Chris Ashton running off him.

Here's to a cracking match!

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Post by screamingaddabs Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:29 pm

When does he announce the World Cup Squad? Is it before the Ireland game or after?
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Post by Manu's Boxing Coach Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:30 pm

Pretty happy with the team. Disappointed not to see Simpson, just think Wigglesworth is a slightly conservative option and Simpson could add some real dynamism and pace to the squad. But Wigglesworth has his chance to prove me wrong.

Would have had Robshaw instead of Fourie but still wouldn't take either to New Zealand. But sure this will cause havoc on here.

Thought Sharpes would have started considering the hype there was coming from England about him. But only a slight annoyance, Ashton, Foden and Cueto is still a very good back three.

Looking like a strong team and should be aiming for a win.

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Post by propdavid_london Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:30 pm

I'm a little dissapointed -

Would have preferred Monye/Sharples instead of - Cueto/Banahans incolvement.

Corbisiero get another crack. No chance for PDJ. (on a + im glad there is no Wilson or Payne)

No second chance for Botha!

No second chance for Flutey or Tuilagi!

Fourie over Robshaw - although glad 1 of them gets a chance.

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Post by Islingtonv2 Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:31 pm

Since Monye and sharples aren't in the 22 can we assume neither will go to the world cup? bit surprised if that is the case as it leaves us a little light on back 3 cover. Disappointed theres no simpson or robshaw otherwise its a very strong side.

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Post by screamingaddabs Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:34 pm

As the world cup squad gets announced before the Ireland game, can we assume that Robshaw and Monye are definitely staying at home?
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Post by wales606 Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:35 pm

Strong England team, I just hope Gatland selects a strong Welsh team to face them - otherwise we could be in trouble.
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Post by munkian Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:36 pm

Oh God hurry up and announce the Welsh squad, this looks a strong English side, my backside is having contractions Shocked
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Post by Manu's Boxing Coach Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:37 pm

Islingtonv2 wrote:Since Monye and sharples aren't in the 22 can we assume neither will go to the world cup? bit surprised if that is the case as it leaves us a little light on back 3 cover. Disappointed theres no simpson or robshaw otherwise its a very strong side.

Banahan, Tuilagi and Armitage can all play on the wing but if we do lose Ashton to injury the back three will look a tad slow.

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Post by yappysnap Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:38 pm

Was kind of expecting to see Flutey get a chance inside Tindall too, does any one think he may not be going to the WC then, or will he be played against Ireland maybe...

So many questions!!

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Post by Portnoy Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:41 pm

We don't know who's carrying training knocks.

I find it impressive that we can put out a convincing shadow side.

Nobody is excluded as yet from the Ireland game.
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Post by screamingaddabs Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:43 pm

True Portnoy, but if they play in the Ireland game then they are definitely in the world cup squad as the world cup squad is announced before the game. If they haven't played yet then they will have to have REALLY impressed in training to make the cut down squad without playing.


Last edited by screamingaddabs on Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:43 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : grammar)
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Post by robbo277 Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:44 pm

I think we have to name our squad a week on Monday (which I think is the 22nd), and we play Ireland the Saturday afterwards.

Judging by what Johnson has done, I can't see anyone who hasn't got game-time in these two matches (with the possible exception of Sheridan and Youngs) getting into the England squad.

Based on Johnson's selections, I think something like:

Sheridan/Wilson, Corbisiero, Stevens, Cole
Hartley, Thompson, Mears
Lawes, Deacon, Palmer, Shaw/Fourie (a lot depending on just how fit Moody is)
Croft, Wood, Haskell, Moody, Easter
Youngs, Care, Wigglesworth
Wilkinson, Flood
Hape, Flutey, Tindall, Tuilagi
Cueto, Ashton, Banahan
Foden, Armitage

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Post by formerly known as Sam Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:44 pm

Banahan, Tuilagi and Armitage can all play on the wing but if we do lose Ashton to injury the back three will look a tad slow. .

Manu is certainly no slouch. Has played wing in the age groups and for Tigers before cementing himself in the 13 shirt.

on a + im glad there is no Wilson or Payne

Wilson played well when he came off the bench last week. Certainly a better performance than Corbisiero managed. I get the impression that Corbs is on his last chance and another mediocare showing will see him dropped in favour of the more reliable Wilson with Sheridan making the squad as well.

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Post by Geordie Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:46 pm

Yeah dont be so sure who Johnno puts out against Ireland either.

If Wood nails this game...then he HAS to be above Moody (despite Wood playing at 6)

If Easter fails to show...then Haskell could very well start at 8 against Ireland.

I am dissapointed that Robshaw is nowhere...but we are developing alot of competition in our backrow.

I do agree that some of the nailed on starters for the WC are in this team though - Foden, Ashton etc.
Says good things for Corbisieru.

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Post by SneakySideStep Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:47 pm

yappysnap wrote:Was kind of expecting to see Flutey get a chance inside Tindall too, does any one think he may not be going to the WC then, or will he be played against Ireland maybe...

So many questions!!

Flutey was one of the few players who came on during the early MJ years and I think he feels a loyalty to give him a go. He had his chance last week but looked off the pace. I'll be surprised if he gets more gametime for England before the 6N (at the earliest) and only if he shows some scintillating club form in that time.

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Post by screamingaddabs Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:47 pm

robbo277 wrote:I think we have to name our squad a week on Monday (which I think is the 22nd), and we play Ireland the Saturday afterwards.

Judging by what Johnson has done, I can't see anyone who hasn't got game-time in these two matches (with the possible exception of Sheridan and Youngs) getting into the England squad.

Based on Johnson's selections, I think something like:

Sheridan/Wilson, Corbisiero, Stevens, Cole
Hartley, Thompson, Mears
Lawes, Deacon, Palmer, Shaw/Fourie (a lot depending on just how fit Moody is)
Croft, Wood, Haskell, Moody, Easter
Youngs, Care, Wigglesworth
Wilkinson, Flood
Hape, Flutey, Tindall, Tuilagi
Cueto, Ashton, Banahan
Foden, Armitage

I agree, sounds like about the team to expect.
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Post by propdavid_london Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:50 pm

Sam - that could be the case re:Corbis. Its still a shame that some players just arent getting a chance - or, perhaps as an earlier poster said. Some of these guys we want to see might be performing in training, and fringe players are the ones being tested in gametime.

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Post by Portnoy Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:50 pm

To be honest, I have no real aspirations for September.

It's 2015 that I'm harbouring my hopes for.
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Post by propdavid_london Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:54 pm

robbo277 wrote:I think we have to name our squad a week on Monday (which I think is the 22nd), and we play Ireland the Saturday afterwards.

Judging by what Johnson has done, I can't see anyone who hasn't got game-time in these two matches (with the possible exception of Sheridan and Youngs) getting into the England squad.

Based on Johnson's selections, I think something like:

Sheridan/Wilson, Corbisiero, Stevens, Cole
Hartley, Thompson, Mears
Lawes, Deacon, Palmer, Shaw/Fourie (a lot depending on just how fit Moody is)
Croft, Wood, Haskell, Moody, Easter
Youngs, Care, Wigglesworth
Wilkinson, Flood
Hape, Flutey, Tindall, Tuilagi
Cueto, Ashton, Banahan
Foden, Armitage



I agree that this side looks likely - also higlight those players that have previous WC experience (that MJ probably likes) -

Sherridan, Stevens, Thompson, Mears, Deacon (?), Shaw, Moody, Easter, Wigglesworth, Wilko, Flood, Tindall, Cueto

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Post by Geordie Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:54 pm

Portnoy....

I have been saying that all along....this WC is too soon...but we should have a corking side by 2015.....

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:55 pm

screamingaddabs wrote:True Portnoy, but if they play in the Ireland game then they are definitely in the world cup squad as the world cup squad is announced before the game. If they haven't played yet then they will have to have REALLY impressed in training to make the cut down squad without playing.

I didnt realise that. So yeah no Monye or Sharples.
Indeed it looks like the squad is essentialy set as people had predeicted before these games, with only a couple of borderline calls strill to make.

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Post by dummy_half Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:58 pm

Robbo

Think you've pretty much nailed the squad there - as you say, a choice between taking Shaw as the 4th 2nd row or Fourie as the 6th back row forward (my suspicion is Fourie will travel).

The other place up for grabs is between Tuillagi and Sharples or Monye, but Manu got a full game whereas Sharples got a few minutes and Monye hasn't been seen, so you have to think Manu is the more probable choice.

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Post by propdavid_london Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:02 pm

Not that I'm dismissing the WC - but we could have a very young, but experienced team post WC in the 6N.



Corbs

Hartley

Cole

Lawes

Botha

Croft

Robshaw

Easter (replaced be a younger model asap)

Youngs

Flood

Sharples

Hape (Trinder maybe)

Tuilagi

Ashton

Foden



Some the older players may continue for a season or so - Deacon, Palmer (if he returns to England), Mears, Stevens,

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:07 pm

Here's who you'll be facing on Saturday:

James Hook; George North; Jamie Roberts, Gavin Henson; Shane Williams; Rhys Priestland, Mike Phillips; Paul James, Lloyd Burns, Craig Mitchell, Luke Charteris, Alun Wyn Jones, Dan Lydiate, Sam Warburton, Toby Faletau

Replacements: Huw Bennett, Ryan Bevington, Josh Turnbull, Justin Tipuric, Tavis Knoyle, Scott Williams, Aled Brew

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Post by munkian Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:10 pm

Goddamn injuries !!
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Post by yappysnap Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:14 pm

Henson in eh? Shame Phillips is still at 10 for you, is Jones injury bad or is Gats just trying out the youngsters at 10?

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Post by robbo277 Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:15 pm

I never mind seeing Hook at fullback. In this case I sense it is needs-must, and he could rotate with Priestland during the game. Other than that the backline looks strong. First choice front row is still missing though, I don't rate Charteris that highly and I think Faletau had a poor game last week, so I think England could get the edge in the forwards and hopefully win the game there.

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Post by munkian Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:16 pm

Phillips at 10 ? Shocked Christ, that would be scary.

I'm guessing Wellies/Byrne/Geth and Adam are being bubble wrapped
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Post by Mr Bounce Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:26 pm

"Some the older players may continue for a season or so - Deacon, Palmer (if he returns to England), Mears, Stevens"

This is a daft statement - Stevens is 28 and 29 in October.

Very disappointed not to see Simpson there but I guess he'll be one of those not going on the plane. Has deacon played at a World Cup??

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Post by formerly known as Sam Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:03 pm

Some the older players may continue for a season or so

Surely they should continue until a younger player proves they are better and that they deserve the shirt more.

Has deacon played at a World Cup??.

Nope, he was only 22 and behind Kay and MJ at Tigers in 2003 where England took Johnson/Kay/Grewcock(replaced by Shaw because of injury) and I think injured for the 2007 RWC where England took Shaw/Kay/Borthwick for both 2003 and 2007 additional cover was taken in the form of Martin Corry (he covered 4,5,6,8).

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Post by Geordie Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:04 pm

PropDavid

Next 6n team could look someting like

1 Corbs / Marler
2 Hartley
3 Cole / Stevens
4 Palmer
5 Lawes
6 Croft
7 Wood
8 Haskell

9 Youngs / Care/ Simpson
10 Flood
11 Banahan
12 Allen
13 Tuilagi
14 Ashton
15 Foden

I wouldnt forsee HUGE changes...the actual team is pretty young as it is.

Only really the centres needing big changes and dilema over the front row.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:09 pm

MJ clearly has Corbisiero in his sights for a place, and the pack looks pretty much as expected. I'm surprised Robshaw isn't at least on the bench, but Fourie is the preferred option at 7 and MJ is sticking to his guns.

I'm not surprised by the backs except for Cueto. With Sharples and Moyne still in the squad, I'd have thought one of them would get a game.

Looking at the two teams, I'd predict England to win by 5.

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Post by propdavid_london Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:29 pm

Bounce - OK, so Stevens still has a few seasons left in him (hes been rested for the last 2yrs). Suffice to say that there are some very good yong props in the pipeline for England or already in the setup -

Corbis, PDJ, Marler, Mullan ect. sure there are more

No.2's, Hartley, Grey, George ect.



Geordie - Wood and Croft both in the same backrow! Not sure that would work (very mobile though)



Looking at the teams picked for this weekend, I would say that England look stronger on paper - but, that doesnt always translate for an away fixture and a big crowd at the MS.

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