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Wallabies 2011 RWC Squad - Announced

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Wallabies 2011 RWC Squad - Announced Empty Wallabies 2011 RWC Squad - Announced

Post by Rob B Wed 17 Aug 2011, 9:22 am

Matt Giteau has been left out (according to his latest twitter message). Pretty big news. Played more than 90 tests. End of an era.

Wallabies squad:

Ben Alexander (Brumbies), Adam Ashley-Cooper (Brumbies), Berrick Barnes (Waratahs), Kurtley Beale (Waratahs), Luke Burgess (Waratahs), Quade Cooper (Reds), Rocky Elsom (Brumbies), Anthony Fainga'a (Reds), Saia Fainga'a (Reds), Will Genia (Reds), Scott Higginbotham (Reds), Rob Horne (Waratahs), James Horwill (Reds, capt), Digby Ioane (Reds), Sekope Kepu (Waratahs), Salesi Ma'afu (Brumbies), Pat McCabe (Brumbies), Ben McCalman (Western Force), Drew Mitchell (Waratahs), Stephen Moore (Brumbies), James O'Connor (Western Force), Wycliff Palu (Waratahs), Nick Phipps (Melbourne Rebels), David Pocock (Western Force), Tatafu Polota-Nau (Waratahs), Radike Samo (Reds), Nathan Sharpe (Western Force), Rob Simmons (Reds), James Slipper (Reds), Dan Vickerman (Waratahs).



MBT


Last edited by Rob B on Thu 18 Aug 2011, 2:05 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by chewed_mintie Wed 17 Aug 2011, 9:37 am

Looks that way, game set and match!

A shame really, funny as this Aus team may be drawing parallels with our 2003 team, great, outrageously quick back three, plays at pace but a flaky, flawed genius at 10 who cracks under pressure. Leaving out Gits also draws a parallel to us leaving out Merhtens. And we all know how 2003 finished. I look forward to a game changing interception thrown by Cooper!

Rel shame about Gits, I marked him in 2002 when he played for Canberra (shortly before he made his test debut) he was a
magician back them and it was clear he'd go places

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Post by formerly known as Sam Wed 17 Aug 2011, 10:08 am

I think Giteau needs the move to France to freshen himself up, the weight of expectation from the Aussie public is akin to what Wilkinson was burdened with before his move. A little less pressure and a star studded team will help him relax and help him rediscover his form. He's only 28 he could easily go away for 2 year and then come back refreshed and challenging for the 10 jersey again.

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Post by MBTGOG Wed 17 Aug 2011, 10:19 am

His big problem for me is his desperation to play 10 when his skills and style of play have always been suited better to the second five position.


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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 17 Aug 2011, 10:51 am

Presumably that means that Barnes is fit and will be included?

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Post by boomeranga Wed 17 Aug 2011, 11:02 am

Trying to pick a squad is difficult. Some positions there are goodish options, and some the cupboard is bare.

As a guess, backed up by years of playing Aussie rules, I think uncertainty around the back row, the likelihood the breakdown will be the the key battle, plus the jack of all trades nature of several of the backs, will lead to heavy on forwards and lean on backs.

Props: Alexander, Kepu, Slipper, Ma'afu (if I asked for one thing other than Dean Mumm to hear his calling and join the convent, it was no more Ma'afu)
Hookers: Moore, Taf, sfinger
Locks: Horwill, sharpe, Simmons, Vickerman
6: rocky, higgers
7: pocock, beau (c)
8: Samo, Palu, mcCalman
9: Genia, burgess, phibbs
10: Cooper, Barnes
Centers: Two Dads, McCabe, A Finger
Wings: Ioane, o'Beiber, Mitchell
15: Beale

I expect we won't see Beau, might see Daley, might see Turner, mightn't see Phibbs, might see Horne, might see Hodgeson, etc, etc. Most likely see no Beau, and Daley, Hodgeson, or Horne coming in.

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Post by boomeranga Wed 17 Aug 2011, 11:05 am

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Presumably that means that Barnes is fit and will be included?

There were tests today, but I cannot find any results of who may have got through and who not. Barnes has been playing club rugby though, so likely he is fit.

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Post by Coleman Wed 17 Aug 2011, 11:29 am

Rumour coming in cryptic from his own twitter yesterday, suprised now one picked this up sooner.

http://twitter.com/#!/giteau_rugby

Picked up by the Irish times too and the Sydney Morning Herald.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2011/0817/1224302590553.html

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-sport/giteau-set-for-stunning-world-cup-snub-20110817-1ixr9.html

Didnt see this coming, if its true. A lot more presure on Quadie without Gits in the sqaud.


Last edited by Coleman on Wed 17 Aug 2011, 11:39 am; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : Added some news links for reference. Also, without is all one word...)

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Post by Thomond Wed 17 Aug 2011, 11:30 am

No bang from Kid Dynamtie at this RWC then. Would be a shame if he didn't go.

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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Wed 17 Aug 2011, 11:37 am

Given that he missed out on the 3N squad for the last couple of matches I was expecting it - he's been below his best for a couple of seasons
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Post by Biltong Wed 17 Aug 2011, 11:38 am

Boomeranga, is Drew Mitchell fit? I was under the impression he was out.
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Post by Coleman Wed 17 Aug 2011, 11:41 am

Maybe this thread should be merged with the Australia World Cup thread?

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Post by bedfordwelsh Wed 17 Aug 2011, 11:43 am

Q the list of overseas clubs coming in for him then possibly.
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Post by Thomond Wed 17 Aug 2011, 11:43 am

He has signed a deal with Toulon.

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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Wed 17 Aug 2011, 11:44 am

Coleman wrote:Maybe this thread should be merged with the Australia World Cup thread?

Will do
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Post by Coleman Wed 17 Aug 2011, 11:47 am

Thomond wrote:He has signed a deal with Toulon.

Any idea when his contract is due to start? I'm sure that they'll be delighted if he can start playing from the begining of the season.

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Post by boomeranga Wed 17 Aug 2011, 11:58 am

He is running Biltong, but fit? Not sure. There are four or five guys all in the same boat. They would play if fit, but can they get fit?

The squad will be interesting as who makes it may signal how far he is willing to roll the dice to win. Of the question marks Mitchell, Palu, Samo, Horne, Timani, Robinson, Daley are to me signals he is going there to win, not bow out gracefully in a semi-final. Turner, mcCalman, Hodgeson are safer, but not players that will kick the door down.

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Post by Guest Wed 17 Aug 2011, 12:01 pm

Bit shocked aswell to see that Giteau may not be included.

Putting everything into Cooper's hands could prove costly, despite being a very good attacking player who can open the lines, he often get's frustrated and closed out by better teams, even though the Reds won Super 15 we seen Cooper get closed out often.

Australia are a good side but it's a massive deal where to play O'Connor and Ashley-Cooper, if you play them both at centre with Genia and Cooper at half-back that is some dangerous side. But if they do decide to go with something different they might look a bit jagged in some areas.

If Mitchell is fit he will start on the wing, I will suspect Beale will start at full-back hopefully.

9.Genia
10.Cooper
12.O'Connor
13.AAC

That's strong, even if Giteau was picked he probably wouldn't of started but it's still a shock to leave someone out of that calibre.

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Post by boomeranga Wed 17 Aug 2011, 12:14 pm

From all the speculation Carlton, it sounded like it was coming down to an either / or between Barnes and Gits. Deans is a known Barnes fan and maybe not so much for Gits.

There was also talk a few weeks ago (the Edan Park game maybe), that if Cooper went down or fell apart, JOC was the preferred choice.

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Post by Guest Wed 17 Aug 2011, 12:25 pm

O'Connor was very exciting at fly-half at the start of the Super 15 season.

Barnes has had problems so it might be a risk to take him aswell, Giteau has caps and experience but hasn't performed that well for a number of season's, but still a shock to see him excluded.

Australia are an exciting side, but the front row might be the biggest problem. Many often say that's there weakest position, they have a strong back row, strong backs but power in the scrum often lacks.

Daley and Slipper are good emerging players, aswell as Saia and TPN but the time wouldn't be right for them. Locks are on form and Horwill and Sharpe could play pivotal roles, Simmons im guessing will be next in line plus McCalman can play at second row aswell.

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Post by boomeranga Wed 17 Aug 2011, 12:27 pm

True Carlton. I think we are near, but probably not quite there.

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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Wed 17 Aug 2011, 12:29 pm

Gits does still have his fans. Tim Horan tweeted the other day that he wanted Giteau to go as utility cover for the whole backline, including 9.
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Post by AsLongAsBut100ofUs Wed 17 Aug 2011, 12:29 pm

carlton5 wrote:Bit shocked aswell to see that Giteau may not be included.

Putting everything into Cooper's hands could prove costly, despite being a very good attacking player who can open the lines, he often get's frustrated and closed out by better teams, even though the Reds won Super 15 we seen Cooper get closed out often.

Australia are a good side but it's a massive deal where to play O'Connor and Ashley-Cooper, if you play them both at centre with Genia and Cooper at half-back that is some dangerous side. But if they do decide to go with something different they might look a bit jagged in some areas.

If Mitchell is fit he will start on the wing, I will suspect Beale will start at full-back hopefully.

9.Genia
10.Cooper
12.O'Connor
13.AAC

That's strong, even if Giteau was picked he probably wouldn't of started but it's still a shock to leave someone out of that calibre.
I confess that I think McCabe has done a good job at 12, and it would be riskier to ditch him for O'Connor imo. Might we even see Barnes appearing at 12?

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Post by Rob B Wed 17 Aug 2011, 12:37 pm

Deans has a lot of utility backs on his hands and so he will likely use Barnes as a back up 10 - whether he is on the bench or picked at 12. O'Connor and Beale can also play FH if injuries require. Gits has lost his spark and there are other options that were not there previously.

Here is my prediction - a bit radical beause it is an 18/12 forwards/backs split - mainly because numerous backs can play in more than one position allowing them to take more in the forwards (which they need):

Props: Ben Alexander, Sekope Kepu, James Slipper, Salesi Ma'afu.

Hookers: Stephen Moore, Tatafu Polota-Nau, Saia Faingaa.

Locks: James Horwill, Nathan Sharpe, Dan Vickerman, Rob Simmons.

Backrows: Rocky Elsom, David Pocock, Scott Higginbotham, Radike Samo, Ben McCalman, Wycliff Palu, Hodgson

Scrumhalves: Will Genia, Luke Burgess.

Inside Backs: Quade Cooper, Berrick Barnes, Anthony Faingaa, Adam Ashley-Cooper, Pat McCabe.

Outside Backs: Kurtley Beale, Digby Ioane, James O'Conner, Drew Mitchell, Lachie Turner.

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Post by OzT Wed 17 Aug 2011, 12:43 pm

Is Ben Robinson def out now? Was only a couple of years ago when him and Alexander was shoving other packs back

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Post by Guest Wed 17 Aug 2011, 12:45 pm

[quote="AsLongAsBut100ofUs"]
carlton5 wrote:

I confess that I think McCabe has done a good job at 12, and it would be riskier to ditch him for O'Connor imo. Might we even see Barnes appearing at 12?

God knows what i've done there still getting to grips with this website, doubt they would ditch O'Connor he will most likely play 12 he is an incredible player great attacking skills brilliant defence. McCabe was impressive in Super 15, but I prefer him at full-back or on the wing, he may even start a game on the wing at the World Cup, Mitchell is still an injury worry to be fair I think he is even out of the World Cup, maybe someone could clear that up Smile

Ioane was brilliant for the Reds, he scored some very important tries. Australia have competition for places and due to Mitchell being possibly injured, Barnes possibly injured to due to concussion risks and Giteau being excluded Aussie's might have to change things around. Genia and Cooper will definitely be included, O'Connor and Beale will be aswell but with these doubts over certain players I could see these possible back lines happening.

9.Genia
10.Cooper
11.Ioane
12.Fainga'a
13.AAC
14.O'Connor
15.Beale

9.Genia
10.Cooper
11.Turner/Morahan
12.O'Connor
13.AAC
14.Ioane
15.Beale

9.Genia
10.Cooper
11.Ioane
12.O'Connor
13.AAC
14.Beale
15.McCabe

Think Morahan, Fainga'a, McCabe could definitely feature also Horne might be included as back-up for outside centre.

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Post by Rob B Wed 17 Aug 2011, 12:46 pm

OzT wrote:Is Ben Robinson def out now? Was only a couple of years ago when him and Alexander was shoving other packs back

He's out - he had surgery yesterday

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Post by OzT Wed 17 Aug 2011, 12:51 pm

Tough luck on him, hope it goes well for him.

I thought we may miss Deew Mitchel's physicality for the RWC, but much happier now as we seem quite well represented in the wing departmert

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Post by Rob B Wed 17 Aug 2011, 12:54 pm

OzT wrote:Tough luck on him, hope it goes well for him.

I thought we may miss Deew Mitchel's physicality for the RWC, but much happier now as we seem quite well represented in the wing departmert

Agree it will be interesting to see if he can force his way into the 15 - I doubt it though. Deans will want O'Connor, Ioane and Beale on the park and despite most fans wanting JOC to play 12, I cannot see Deans moving him at RWC time. Bench for Mitchell I think.

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Post by OzT Wed 17 Aug 2011, 12:56 pm

No need for Drew now, not even on the bench.

Still awaiting this hidden find from the outback that Deans has found, some monster that can prop and run the hundred in sub 10, with silky handling skills......

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Post by Guest Wed 17 Aug 2011, 12:59 pm

OzT wrote:No need for Drew now, not even on the bench.

Still awaiting this hidden find from the outback that Deans has found, some monster that can prop and run the hundred in sub 10, with silky handling skills......

Didn't know Matt Banahan was Australian Headscratch

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Post by Rob B Wed 17 Aug 2011, 1:00 pm

Based on their last 2 perforamances I would be happy to settle for silky hands...

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Post by Full Credit Wed 17 Aug 2011, 1:08 pm

I don't think you could have O'Connor at 12 next to Cooper. While he's quite an accomplished defender I think a lot of teams would fancy sending some serious firepower down that channel. If Cooper's our option at 10 then you need a rock-solid defender at 12, either McCabe or Faainga. I think if you're going to bring O'Connor in off the wing to play at 12 you would need a Barnes type at 10.

I'd be quite happy to not see McCalman in the side. I don't think he's shown us anything in the international arena. While Higginbotham's not a natural 8 I'd rather see him running around out there if I had to. Obviously Palu if fit with Samo as a backup. I'd also have Beau Robinson in for Hodgson.

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Post by Rob B Wed 17 Aug 2011, 1:16 pm

Full Credit wrote:I don't think you could have O'Connor at 12 next to Cooper. While he's quite an accomplished defender I think a lot of teams would fancy sending some serious firepower down that channel. If Cooper's our option at 10 then you need a rock-solid defender at 12, either McCabe or Faainga. I think if you're going to bring O'Connor in off the wing to play at 12 you would need a Barnes type at 10.

I'd be quite happy to not see McCalman in the side. I don't think he's shown us anything in the international arena. While Higginbotham's not a natural 8 I'd rather see him running around out there if I had to. Obviously Palu if fit with Samo as a backup. I'd also have Beau Robinson in for Hodgson.

Agree - but Robbie plays favourites. These are marginal players who always find themselves in the mix: Hodgson, McCalman (neither should be near a gold jersey), Barnes (don't disagree with him but no star IMO) , Horne (I fear he will be picked).

If they don't take a 18/12 split, then it will be a toss up between Palu and Samo - McCalman and Hodgson probably already have their boarding passes - a shame.

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Post by OzT Wed 17 Aug 2011, 1:42 pm

Nice one Carlton5

Smile

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Post by Rob B Thu 18 Aug 2011, 1:31 am

James Horwill named as captain.

I didn't predict this, but certainly advocated it. A brave and correct decision.

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Post by Rob B Thu 18 Aug 2011, 1:36 am

The announced squad: I got 28 right. Phipps is going; Hodgson is not. Horwill captain.

Backs - Kurtley Beale, James O'Connor, Drew Mitchell, Digby Ioane, Adam Ashley-Cooper, Rob Horne, Pat McCabe, Anthony Faingaa, Berrick Barnes, Quade Cooper, Nick Phipps, Luke Burgess, Will Genia.

Forwards - Ben McCalman, Radike Samo, Wycliff Palu, David Pocock, Rocky Elsom, Scott Higginbotham, James Horwill (c), Rob Simmons, Nathan Sharpe, Dan Vickerman, Ben Alexander, Sekope Kepu, James Slipper, Salesi Ma'afu, Stephen Moore, Saia Faingaa, Tatafu Polota-Nau.

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Post by aucklandlaurie Thu 18 Aug 2011, 1:39 am

Very true,watching Rocky over the last couple of games this always looked the correct move,and dont discount the possibility that he will now kick on without the captaincy mantle.
This is also a good move for the Wallabys going into a test at Suncorp,Horwill has really lifted his game in the last year,especially in front of the locals.
Dont know why we are all concerned about this World cup,There's still plenty of legs in this Tri nations....

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Post by Pal Joey Thu 18 Aug 2011, 3:17 am

I think it's a move in the right direction. Horwill has all the makings of a great captain and the players will no doubt respect his leadership.

Wallaby Squad

RD has bitten the bullet and named 6 currently/recently injured players who should be fit within the next 3 weeks. Palu, Barnes, TPN, Slipper, Mitchell and Horne.

I must admit I'm surprised by the relegation of Rocky (just didn't think RD would do it despite growing concerns from inner circle and fans) but it is definitely the right decision; and a brave one which is good to see - it will free him up to concentrate on his game more.

All in all, I'm pretty happy to see that squad of 30 for the last Tri Nations match at Suncorp and the RWC.
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Post by Rob B Thu 18 Aug 2011, 3:32 am

Here is my take on the squad:

- Horne very lucky to be there - hardly played this year and I think he is barely test quality. Just do not get it at all - but he is one one of Robbie's pets so.....He has kept Lachie turner out and Lachie is very unlucky - he has trained with the squad the whole time

- There is a long list of long term injured players in the squad - I wonder just how many will make it back to form in time. TPN, Palu, Horne, Mitchell in particular are very risky selections

- No special No7 back up. Hodgson not picked - I agree with that but then neither was Beau Robinson picked. Looks like Higgin may have to cover 6 and 7, unless Palu is being considered as a potential flanker

- Rocky's spot at 6 is under threat and I think that is why he lost the captaincy. I'm sure he will play next week at 6 but there are now plenty of options in the backrow.

- Vickerman - very lucky to be there - just fail to see how he has made any impact. Then again Timani blew his chance against Samoa.

-With Samo and Palu named, don't understand why McCalman is there - looks like he will be a training tackle bag.

- if people get fit it is a much much better squad than 07. Something not every side can claim.

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Post by Gunner Thu 18 Aug 2011, 4:03 am

Big call to change horses at this stage of the race.
If things turn sour for Wallabies will there be divisions in the squad?
Big big call from RD.
You do have to wonder why this wasnt done at the start of the season.
You cant imagine its a spur of the moment decision.
Anything to do with RD re-signing with ARU a few days ago?

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Post by boomeranga Thu 18 Aug 2011, 4:15 am

Im happy enough with most of that, if they all get fit anyway.

The only reason I can see for taking Horne is that he is not convinced McCabe and Ant are genuine options for 13 at international level, and doesnt consider Digby as an option there now that he is defending for Quade. He must have wanted a specialist as backup. Lachie is my wifes favourite player so I'm expecting something quite bitter for dinner tonight, but to me he just hasnt asserted his case very well over the past 18 months. He's very quick, and solid defensively, but I cant remember the last time he beat a man.

No backup to Pocock is a suprise, especially as he has picked three 8's, with two 6's who could cover. Ben McCalman does seem to be the spare wheel. However thinking through what I know of other squads, there may not be a lot of genuine fetchers there. Still, if we come up against Broussow, McCaw, Warburton without Pocock, it may prove painful. No go Beau remains a head scratcher.

Vickerman is really a case of last man standing rather than having demanded the spot. I was hopeful at the start of the year that Kane Douglas may have come on, but he had a pretty poor season. Still these four are all better options than Mumm and Chisolm who this time last year looked certainties, so can't complain.

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Post by doctor_grey Thu 18 Aug 2011, 5:03 am

Do you think it will be Beale or O'Conner as the injury cover for Cooper at 10?

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Post by boomeranga Thu 18 Aug 2011, 5:13 am

Personally I think it will be Barnes, O'Connor, then Beale Doctor.

It is a pretty versatile squad, with one glaring exception:

1. Alexander, Slipper, Kepu
2. Moore, TPN, Fainga’a
3. Alexander, Slipper, Kepu, Ma’afu
4. Horwill, Vickerman, Simmons
5. Sharpe, Vickerman, Simmons
6. Elsom, Higginbotham, Samo, McCalman, Horwill
7. Pocock
8. Palu, Higginbotham, Samo, Elsom, McCalman
9. Genia, Burgess, Phipps
10. Cooper, Barnes, O’Connor, Beale
11. O’Connor, Mitchell, AAC, McCabe
12. McCabe, Fainga’a, Barnes, O’Connor,
13. AAC, Fainga’a, McCabe, Horne, Ioane
14. Ioane, Mitchell, AAC, McCabe
15. Beale, AAC, McCabe, O’Connor, Barnes

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Post by Rob B Thu 18 Aug 2011, 5:23 am

boomeranga wrote:Im happy enough with most of that, if they all get fit anyway.



No backup to Pocock is a suprise, especially as he has picked three 8's, with two 6's who could cover. Ben McCalman does seem to be the spare wheel. However thinking through what I know of other squads, there may not be a lot of genuine fetchers there. Still, if we come up against Broussow, McCaw, Warburton without Pocock, it may prove painful. No go Beau remains a head scratcher.

.

I think a no 7 back up is based on their assessment of the way games are being played this year and also how they will be played in the RWC. Fetchers are smaller faster blokes there to steal the ball. I sense they want bigger more imposing blokes because the tackle contest will be more physical and more counter rucking driving players off the ball. I think the refs are clamping down on traditional ball stealing - Pocock got pinged 3 times against the ABs and as a result is looking more quiet and he was quiet-ish against the Boks. They were also driven off the ball a lot against England at Twickenham and Samoa this year.

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Post by Rob B Thu 18 Aug 2011, 5:28 am

With all things to do with Robbie it all comes pretty late. But better late than never in my view.

I think they have decided that Rocky's spot in the team is under threat and it would be pretty embarrassing dropping the captain during the RWC.

The transition therefore is underway.

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Post by boomeranga Thu 18 Aug 2011, 5:42 am

So unless you are proven an elite level fetcher, you may not be worth the spot? It would explain things.

I suspect that if Pocock was injured for an important week, and we needed one, it is more likely that Horne or someone else will be found to be more injured than was previously thought, and and a replacement sent over.

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Post by nganboy Thu 18 Aug 2011, 7:57 am

Gunner wrote:Big call to change horses at this stage of the race.
If things turn sour for Wallabies will there be divisions in the squad?
Big big call from RD.
You do have to wonder why this wasnt done at the start of the season.
You cant imagine its a spur of the moment decision.
Anything to do with RD re-signing with ARU a few days ago?

Probably fair enough to not do it at the start of the season / end of last season considering they had some successes mixed in with their failures. Also Horwill wasn't a standout at the end of last year. Personally i though Sharp would get it.
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Post by Ozzy3213 Thu 18 Aug 2011, 8:03 am

It's a good decision, the captaincy was clearly weighing heavily on Rocky, and Horwill has done a great job as captain of the Reds.

Bad timing though. Should have been done prior to the Samoa game.
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Post by Biltong Thu 18 Aug 2011, 8:20 am

It looks a decent squad.

I hope Deans knows which players are best in their respective positions, there is always a danger of how to combine the back line.

You need creativity and control at 9 and 10, strong defensive midfield, great positional play in the back three. So the combinations are vital.
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