Ireland v USA - Live Match Thread & Post Match Discussion

by **Pal Joey** Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:06 am

First topic message reminder :

Ireland v USA, Sunday 11/9 4:00pm (EST), New Plymouth

Ireland (15-1): Geordan Murphy; Tommy Bowe, Brian O'Driscoll, Gordon D'Arcy, Keith Earls, Jonathan Sexton, Conor Murray, Jamie Heaslip, Shane Jennings, Stephen Ferris; Paul O'Connell, Donncha O'Callagha; Mike Ross, Rory Best, Tom Court.

Res: Jerry Flannery, Tony Buckley, Donnacha Ryan, Denis Leamy, Eoin Reddan, Sean O'Brien, Andrew Trimble.

United States (15-1): Blaine Scully, Takudzwa Ngwenya, Paul Emerick, Andrew Suniula, James Paterson; Roland Suniula, Mike Petri, Nic Johnson, Todd Clever (capt), Louis Stanfill, Hayden Smith, John van der Giessen, Shawn Pittman, Phil Thiel, Mike MacDonald.

Res: Chris Biller, Matekitonga Moeakiola, Scott LaValla, Pat Danahy, Tim Usasz, Nese Malifa, Colin Hawley.

by **rodders** Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:30 pm

That would be worth trying Boyne but it won't happen on Kidneys Watch.

I hope Reddan and Sexton start against Australia but I think the criticism of Murray is harsh. I thought he played well all things considered he just made a few bad errors, like passing into touch and getting a kick charged down, and took the wrong option a few times.

His passing was good and he made some good half breaks. He's not quite ready for this level but I think he'll learn quick and hope he gets another chance against Russia.

by valjester Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:38 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I think the main difference on the 52nd minute was Reddan not ROG. I thought ROG and Sexton were pretty similar in this game.

I don't see how ROG could be our most valuable player that has to fall to Ross or POC or BOD (although beginning to rethink BOD)

we can't play Aus with ROG IMO. We need to hold on to the ball for long periods of the game even if we aren't going anywhere. I don't think ROG is the kinda guy to do this, I hope Sexton and Reddan start and all of a sudden sexton begins standing as flat as he was before he arrived at Carlton House.

I agree Ausker BOD is either out of sorts or has had a serious dip.
Darcy needs to go.

I felt Bowe was more likely to score there than Fla was at the back of that maul.

I though that reddan was poor enough when he came on tbh, threw one terrible pass behind everyone. Rog can't start, he cost us a chance of a try with a stupid kick in the opposition 22. Reddan and Sexton have to start next week.

Apparently bod is having trouble with motion in his shoulder, and that was the reason that earls was in the centre for a lot of the time yesterday and the reason that bod threw a few terrible passes. It is a huge worry for next week because australia are going to target us next week in the centres after seeing how well usa did against us there. And if we have to have a winger helping out in their australia will be able to pick us off out wide.

On the jennings issue, I thought he was average yesterday and I definitely wouldn't have him starting next week. Cullen will only start if poc is injured and doc will raise his game next week and have a stormer. He is becoming more inconsistent as time passes but doc always raise his game in big matches. I'd hope that ryan is on the bench though and if doc is playing poorly again for him to be replaced early. Heaslip had a good 1st half but disappeared in the 2nd. He will raise his game though, he tends to rise for the big occasion as well.

by **rodders** Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:41 pm

Val that could explain BOD's lack of form alright and why he's missing so many tackles. He and D'arcy haven't been as effective at the breakdown either.

If BOD isn't fit he shouldn't play though as in that form he'll be a liability against the Australian backs.

by dublin_dave Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:46 pm

haha. although some blatant wumming of the munster lads there i would have no issue with that side. Fat chance of it happening though

give sexton a shot with reddan. if he fails to deliver a performance rog to replace him for the italy game no issues. if he is dropped without being given a chance to play with the fella he won a hc with it will be harsh in extreme.

i suspect he will name following team:

backs: murphy,bowe,drico,darcy,earls,rog,reddan, forwards: healy,best,ross,donners,poc,ferris,sob,heaslip

bench will be: buckley,fla,cullen,leamy,murray,sexton,trimble

by valjester Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:48 pm

roddersm wrote:Val that could explain BOD's lack of form alright and why he's missing so many tackles. He and D'arcy haven't been as effective at the breakdown either.

If BOD isn't fit he shouldn't play though as in that form he'll be a liability against the Australian backs.

Its what I've been told and the source is nearly always right, its also on another forum. Bod only missed one tackle the other day but the biggest worry from it was that earls was out of position a few times on the wing because he was babysitting the centres. Australia will exploit this ruthlessly next week if we do it again.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:50 pm

You think he will go for Buckley over Court?!?

I think Ryan should be on the bench whether it is DOC or Cullen who starts.

BOD being injured makes a lot of sense he hasn't played this bad defensively (USA, France games) in a long long time. He isn't necessarily missing tackles but he is losing a lot of ground in a lot of tackles. As soon as a guy looks to go outside him too he seems to be in trouble.

by valjester Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:52 pm

dublin_dave wrote:haha. although some blatant wumming of the munster lads there i would have no issue with that side. Fat chance of it happening though

give sexton a shot with reddan. if he fails to deliver a performance rog to replace him for the italy game no issues. if he is dropped without being given a chance to play with the fella he won a hc with it will be harsh in extreme.

i suspect he will name following team:

backs: murphy,bowe,drico,darcy,earls,rog,reddan, forwards: healy,best,ross,donners,poc,ferris,sob,heaslip

bench will be: buckley,fla,cullen,leamy,murray,sexton,trimble

Sexton has to start, especially if bod is carrying an injury. I don't think his poor showing can be blamed on the scrumhalfs though and it is unfair on them to blame them for it. Rog has played well with both tol and murray in the last year, murray was nowhere near as bad as has been made out. He was average and nervous but he will learn from the experience.

I'd say kearney and trimble will probably start and there might be a change in the centre. Court will definitely be on the bench and hopefully boss and ryan will be as well.

by valjester Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:54 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:You think he will go for Buckley over Court?!?

I think Ryan should be on the bench whether it is DOC or Cullen who starts.

BOD being injured makes a lot of sense he hasn't played this bad defensively (USA, France games) in a long long time. He isn't necessarily missing tackles but he is losing a lot of ground in a lot of tackles. As soon as a guy looks to go outside him too he seems to be in trouble.

Buckley is carrying a injury and court is a better player so I don't think buckley will get the bench slot.

If he wasn't bod he would be coming in for a lot more criticism. If earls, paddy of mcfadden had put in that performance on sunday their heads would be called for.

by **rodders** Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:59 pm

valjester wrote:
pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:You think he will go for Buckley over Court?!?

I think Ryan should be on the bench whether it is DOC or Cullen who starts.

BOD being injured makes a lot of sense he hasn't played this bad defensively (USA, France games) in a long long time. He isn't necessarily missing tackles but he is losing a lot of ground in a lot of tackles. As soon as a guy looks to go outside him too he seems to be in trouble.

Buckley is carrying a injury and court is a better player so I don't think buckley will get the bench slot.

If he wasn't bod he would be coming in for a lot more criticism. If earls, paddy of mcfadden had put in that performance on sunday their heads would be called for.

I agree on both points Val.

by Thomond Mon Sep 12, 2011 5:59 pm

Ok,one thing why are the Munster lads accuse of wumming when they say a Leinster player doesn't play great or they back up a Munster lad? They mightn't necessarily be wumming. I agree with you that DOC is underperforming,I think it would be suicide to play Cullen though. Now you have two second rows who do little work at the breakdown or around the park. Murray didn't have his best game yesterday and Reddan will probably start. Murray took steps yesterday which he usually doesn't.

Leamy shouldn't be on the bench. Even if he was poor yesterday,Jennings is the guy for 7 cover. Earls probably won't start on Saturday,Trimble deserves to on his performances. As of now I would be in favour of ROG starting. Sexton looked like a bag of nerves yesterday. His kicking wasn't good enough either,he showed flashes of creativity but not a lot. ROG wasn't great,but he did one thing yesterday for the 3rd try,he attacked the line at pace,Sexton was too flat all game.

by Sin é Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:02 pm

valjester wrote:I think the main difference on the 52nd minute was Reddan not ROG. I thought ROG and Sexton were pretty similar in this game.

I don't see how ROG could be our most valuable player that has to fall to Ross or POC or BOD (although beginning to rethink BOD)

It was something that happened at Carton House. Ferris congratulated ROG for winning it on Twitter. The neutral commentators seem to be able to spot how he lifts the team when he comes on.

Your point about dropping him for kicking the ball in the 22 is rubbish - 9/10 times that kicks results in a try.

EDIT: QUOTE is from PETE, not val.

by valjester Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:08 pm

Sin é wrote:
valjester wrote:I think the main difference on the 52nd minute was Reddan not ROG. I thought ROG and Sexton were pretty similar in this game.

I don't see how ROG could be our most valuable player that has to fall to Ross or POC or BOD (although beginning to rethink BOD)

It was something that happened at Carton House. Ferris congratulated ROG for winning it on Twitter. The neutral commentators seem to be able to spot how he lifts the team when he comes on.

Your point about dropping him for kicking the ball in the 22 is rubbish - 9/10 times that kicks results in a try.

I think you've made a mess of the quoting. And that type of kick doesn't result in a try 9/10 times. It was a poor kick and rog is usually better than that.

Thomond;are you saying that cullen for doc would lead to less work form the second rows at the breakdown and around the pitch because you think poc does little there? Poc's breakdown work is one of his biggest strengths.

by Sin é Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:10 pm

valjester wrote:
dublin_dave wrote:haha. although some blatant wumming of the munster lads there i would have no issue with that side. Fat chance of it happening though

give sexton a shot with reddan. if he fails to deliver a performance rog to replace him for the italy game no issues. if he is dropped without being given a chance to play with the fella he won a hc with it will be harsh in extreme.

i suspect he will name following team:

backs: murphy,bowe,drico,darcy,earls,rog,reddan, forwards: healy,best,ross,donners,poc,ferris,sob,heaslip

bench will be: buckley,fla,cullen,leamy,murray,sexton,trimble

Sexton has to start, especially if bod is carrying an injury. I don't think his poor showing can be blamed on the scrumhalfs though and it is unfair on them to blame them for it. Rog has played well with both tol and murray in the last year, murray was nowhere near as bad as has been made out. He was average and nervous but he will learn from the experience.

I'd say kearney and trimble will probably start and there might be a change in the centre. Court will definitely be on the bench and hopefully boss and ryan will be as well.

Why has Sexton to start if BOD is carrying an injury?

For the record, I posted that I thought Sexton & Reddan should start against Australia before the US game. Sexton is completely out of his comfort zone and isn't up to it I'm afraid at 10. Best thing Kidney could do is to play him at 12 and O'Gara at 10.

Its a bit predictable that Murray should pick up O'Leary's mantle in the blame game for Sexton's poor performance. It seems Murray can perform well with ROG and when the backrow get the finger out. The problem with Reddan (apart from always doing something hairbrained that results in the opposition getting a try), he is not physical enough and that is why Kidney has persisted so long with Tomas O'Leary.

by Boyne Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:12 pm

Why has Sexton to start if BOD is carrying an injury?

Because ROG has Katie Moss shoulders?

by Boyne Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:13 pm

Your point about dropping him for kicking the ball in the 22 is rubbish - 9/10 times that kicks results in a try.

And 9 out of 10 cats prefer whiskers. Doesnt mean ROG should start next week.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:15 pm

"Your point about dropping him for kicking the ball in the 22 is rubbish - 9/10 times that kicks results in a try."

Haha do you have the stats to back that up then?!?!
Hahaha!

Yeah I did think there was a lift when he came on but I think it was due to Reddan.

I also think people are exaggerating how badly Murray played, you could tell he was bricking it and made some silly mistakes but overall he made good decisions (took too long to make the decisions though) and his quality of pass was good.

I thought Sexton and ROG were about equal.

TOL never did anything hairbrained that resulted in a try and he has the physicallity to take the tackle and not pass.

by Sin é Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:15 pm

valjester wrote:
Sin é wrote:
valjester wrote:I think the main difference on the 52nd minute was Reddan not ROG. I thought ROG and Sexton were pretty similar in this game.

I don't see how ROG could be our most valuable player that has to fall to Ross or POC or BOD (although beginning to rethink BOD)

It was something that happened at Carton House. Ferris congratulated ROG for winning it on Twitter. The neutral commentators seem to be able to spot how he lifts the team when he comes on.

Your point about dropping him for kicking the ball in the 22 is rubbish - 9/10 times that kicks results in a try.

I think you've made a mess of the quoting. And that type of kick doesn't result in a try 9/10 times. It was a poor kick and rog is usually better than that.

Thomond;are you saying that cullen for doc would lead to less work form the second rows at the breakdown and around the pitch because you think poc does little there? Poc's breakdown work is one of his biggest strengths.

Sorry, fixed the quote.

If you think ROG can usually do better than that, why would you drop him for it? Off the top of my head I can see Earls, Tommy Bowe & Dougie Howlett all getting trys from a kick like that from ROG in the 22.

by valjester Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:16 pm

Sin é wrote:

Why has Sexton to start if BOD is carrying an injury?

For the record, I posted that I thought Sexton & Reddan should start against Australia before the US game. Sexton is completely out of his comfort zone and isn't up to it I'm afraid at 10. Best thing Kidney could do is to play him at 12 and O'Gara at 10.

Its a bit predictable that Murray should pick up O'Leary's mantle in the blame game for Sexton's poor performance. It seems Murray can perform well with ROG and when the backrow get the finger out. The problem with Reddan (apart from always doing something hairbrained that results in the opposition getting a try), he is not physical enough and that is why Kidney has persisted so long with Tomas O'Leary.

Because he is much more physical in the tackle than rog. Starting rog and sexton for the first time against aus would be suicidal.
Sexton was poor, it wasn't murray's fault though.
Reddan has hopefully got his brainfarts out of the way, there is nothing wrong with his defence he was very good away against france when we where under a lot of pressure.

by Sin é Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:22 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:"Your point about dropping him for kicking the ball in the 22 is rubbish - 9/10 times that kicks results in a try."

Haha do you have the stats to back that up then?!?!
Hahaha!

Yeah I did think there was a lift when he came on but I think it was due to Reddan.

I also think people are exaggerating how badly Murray played, you could tell he was bricking it and made some silly mistakes but overall he made good decisions (took too long to make the decisions though) and his quality of pass was good.

I thought Sexton and ROG were about equal.

TOL never did anything hairbrained that resulted in a try and he has the physicallity to take the tackle and not pass.

Even you must have heard the phrase 9/10, 3/4 etc. etc. Wink

by Sin é Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:28 pm

valjester wrote:
Sin é wrote:

Why has Sexton to start if BOD is carrying an injury?

For the record, I posted that I thought Sexton & Reddan should start against Australia before the US game. Sexton is completely out of his comfort zone and isn't up to it I'm afraid at 10. Best thing Kidney could do is to play him at 12 and O'Gara at 10.

Its a bit predictable that Murray should pick up O'Leary's mantle in the blame game for Sexton's poor performance. It seems Murray can perform well with ROG and when the backrow get the finger out. The problem with Reddan (apart from always doing something hairbrained that results in the opposition getting a try), he is not physical enough and that is why Kidney has persisted so long with Tomas O'Leary.

Because he is much more physical in the tackle than rog. Starting rog and sexton for the first time against aus would be suicidal.
Sexton was poor, it wasn't murray's fault though.
Reddan has hopefully got his brainfarts out of the way, there is nothing wrong with his defence he was very good away against france when we where under a lot of pressure.

Sexton & Reddan started together against SA & New Zealand last November. I'd be pretty sure that Reddan's performance in those games (but particularly against New Zealand) decided Kidney that O'Leary was his only hope and why he has tried to pair Sexton & O'Leary.

by Sin é Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:33 pm

valjester wrote:
Sin é wrote:

Why has Sexton to start if BOD is carrying an injury?

For the record, I posted that I thought Sexton & Reddan should start against Australia before the US game. Sexton is completely out of his comfort zone and isn't up to it I'm afraid at 10. Best thing Kidney could do is to play him at 12 and O'Gara at 10.

Its a bit predictable that Murray should pick up O'Leary's mantle in the blame game for Sexton's poor performance. It seems Murray can perform well with ROG and when the backrow get the finger out. The problem with Reddan (apart from always doing something hairbrained that results in the opposition getting a try), he is not physical enough and that is why Kidney has persisted so long with Tomas O'Leary.

Because he is much more physical in the tackle than rog. Starting rog and sexton for the first time against aus would be suicidal.
Sexton was poor, it wasn't murray's fault though.
Reddan has hopefully got his brainfarts out of the way, there is nothing wrong with his defence he was very good away against france when we where under a lot of pressure.

If you want someone to tackle, put them in the backrow. Someone needs to conduct the orchestra. It says a lot that Eddie O'Sullivan (O'Gara's old coach) didn't target O'Gara 'poor' defence.

by valjester Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:42 pm

Sin é wrote:
valjester wrote:
Sin é wrote:

Why has Sexton to start if BOD is carrying an injury?

For the record, I posted that I thought Sexton & Reddan should start against Australia before the US game. Sexton is completely out of his comfort zone and isn't up to it I'm afraid at 10. Best thing Kidney could do is to play him at 12 and O'Gara at 10.

Its a bit predictable that Murray should pick up O'Leary's mantle in the blame game for Sexton's poor performance. It seems Murray can perform well with ROG and when the backrow get the finger out. The problem with Reddan (apart from always doing something hairbrained that results in the opposition getting a try), he is not physical enough and that is why Kidney has persisted so long with Tomas O'Leary.

Because he is much more physical in the tackle than rog. Starting rog and sexton for the first time against aus would be suicidal.
Sexton was poor, it wasn't murray's fault though.
Reddan has hopefully got his brainfarts out of the way, there is nothing wrong with his defence he was very good away against france when we where under a lot of pressure.

If you want someone to tackle, put them in the backrow. Someone needs to conduct the orchestra. It says a lot that Eddie O'Sullivan (O'Gara's old coach) didn't target O'Gara 'poor' defence.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that sexton started yesterday. Every player has to tackle, the bolded is pure nonsense. Sexton is perfectly capable of running a backline.

by Sin é Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:57 pm

valjester wrote:
Sin é wrote:
valjester wrote:
Sin é wrote:

Why has Sexton to start if BOD is carrying an injury?

For the record, I posted that I thought Sexton & Reddan should start against Australia before the US game. Sexton is completely out of his comfort zone and isn't up to it I'm afraid at 10. Best thing Kidney could do is to play him at 12 and O'Gara at 10.

Its a bit predictable that Murray should pick up O'Leary's mantle in the blame game for Sexton's poor performance. It seems Murray can perform well with ROG and when the backrow get the finger out. The problem with Reddan (apart from always doing something hairbrained that results in the opposition getting a try), he is not physical enough and that is why Kidney has persisted so long with Tomas O'Leary.

Because he is much more physical in the tackle than rog. Starting rog and sexton for the first time against aus would be suicidal.
Sexton was poor, it wasn't murray's fault though.
Reddan has hopefully got his brainfarts out of the way, there is nothing wrong with his defence he was very good away against france when we where under a lot of pressure.

If you want someone to tackle, put them in the backrow. Someone needs to conduct the orchestra. It says a lot that Eddie O'Sullivan (O'Gara's old coach) didn't target O'Gara 'poor' defence.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that sexton started yesterday. Every player has to tackle, the bolded is pure nonsense. Sexton is perfectly capable of running a backline.

It seems to me he is not able to do both at the same time. You are the one who suggested that Sexton has to start because of BOD's injury! Are you implying that O'Gara doesn't tackle from your comment that 'every player has to tackle'. Have you ever noticed that its the forwards who generally make most tackles? Well, it looks like Sexton was doing Heislip's for him on Saturday as he probably put more tackles in that game than in any other international he has played on. No wonder the backline suffered. It didn't help as well that he kept going on the inside rather than trying to get the ball out to the wings/fullback.

I'm sure Sexton is well capable of running a backline - its just we haven't seen too much of it at international level and we can't afford to be missing kicking opportunities like he did against the US. All the heads drop around him when that happens. If they had built a score they might have been a bit less anxious about scoring the 4th try.

by **rodders** Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:01 pm

Can someone please remind me of what ROG contributed when he came on that certain people think he was so much better than Sexton?

The main contribution that I can recall from O'Gara was him kicking the ball away in a great attacking position and initiating that stupid backline move which lead to Emericks intercept try.

by Sin é Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:10 pm

roddersm wrote:Can someone please remind me of what ROG contributed when he came on that certain people think he was so much better than Sexton?

The main contribution that I can recall from O'Gara was him kicking the ball away in a great attacking position and initiating that stupid backline move which lead to Emericks intercept try.

Well, he got the field position for Best's try. He also initiated the move for Bowe's second try - a lovely flat pass to BOD who passed to Bowe.
He also lifted the team when he came on - at last someone was going to kick their hard earned points.

by **rodders** Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:17 pm

Sin é wrote:
roddersm wrote:Can someone please remind me of what ROG contributed when he came on that certain people think he was so much better than Sexton?

The main contribution that I can recall from O'Gara was him kicking the ball away in a great attacking position and initiating that stupid backline move which lead to Emericks intercept try.

Well, he got the field position for Best's try. He also initiated the move for Bowe's second try - a lovely flat pass to BOD who passed to Bowe.
He also lifted the team when he came on - at last someone was going to kick their hard earned points.

Sexton had the assist for Bowes 1st try, a rolling maul set Best up and BOD and Bowe himself set up the Bowes 2nd. ROG was 1 from 2 on kicks so wasn't perfect with the boot by any means.

The USA were clearly tiring when ROG came on and Sexton was playing the match outside an inexperienced 9. I don't think you can compare the two performances but certainly I didn't see much improvement come from ROG's introduction.

by Sin é Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:39 pm

roddersm wrote:
Sin é wrote:
roddersm wrote:Can someone please remind me of what ROG contributed when he came on that certain people think he was so much better than Sexton?

The main contribution that I can recall from O'Gara was him kicking the ball away in a great attacking position and initiating that stupid backline move which lead to Emericks intercept try.

Well, he got the field position for Best's try. He also initiated the move for Bowe's second try - a lovely flat pass to BOD who passed to Bowe.
He also lifted the team when he came on - at last someone was going to kick their hard earned points.

Sexton had the assist for Bowes 1st try, a rolling maul set Best up and BOD and Bowe himself set up the Bowes 2nd. ROG was 1 from 2 on kicks so wasn't perfect with the boot by any means.

The USA were clearly tiring when ROG came on and Sexton was playing the match outside an inexperienced 9. I don't think you can compare the two performances but certainly I didn't see much improvement come from ROG's introduction.

1) You didn't ask me what Sexton did.
2) I said that O'Gara got the field position for the rolling maul for Best's try.
3) I think you need to rewatch Bowe's try again - O'Gara had as much a say for that try as BOD did.
4) I don't think O'Gara would have missed the sitters under the posts that Sexton did. He missed one kick from the sideline and that was difficult enough and his first kick of the game.

Conor Murray maybe an inexperienced 9, but I fail to see how that should have lead to Sexton missing so many of his kicks - or maybe you think he was a bit worried that Conor Murray would start taking them as well. If Sexton felt a need to complain, it should be about the lack of protection his Leinster team mates in the backrow afforded his inexperienced team mate.

Look, everyone seems to think Reddan is the answer - but the Sexton & Reddan pairing are as capable of losing against Australia as they were when they started against South Africa and New Zealand last autumn - and I think Sexton could kick back then.

As for the tiring US players - Emerick looked fine for his try. Reddan or Bowe couldn't put a finger on him and they were very fresh.

by Gibson Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:46 pm

Lads, this may seem way left of field from me. But. We haven't a chance in hell of beating Oz with good, open, running rugby. So, ROG in and play like Munster - pin em back, grind them down up front and take our resultant penaltys. Then, get Sexton back for Italy after we beat Oz. Everyone's happy.

by mckay1402 Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:48 pm

bloody hell this game is going on for ages...

by Gibson Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:49 pm

Mcckay,
Its not even half-time yet man. We're Irish. guinness

by **rodders** Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:49 pm

Sin all weekend top class kickers were missing kicks that they would normally have got including Dan Carter, James Hook, Jonny Wilkinson, Chris Patterson and Filipe Contepomi.

Do you think all these guys should be dropped too?

Sexton did not have his best game but didn't get great service. O'Gara wasn't great either and was poor against England too.

I think we should stick with Sexton against Australia because the game suits his abilities better and if he plays well he's better than O'Gara is.

by dublin_dave Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:59 pm

What would your backline be to play aus sin e? I know you dont rate reddan

Rog was better than sexton but nowhere near as made out on here. We were pretty poor and rudderless with rog on field also. I remember one neat kick pinning them back and a decent pass for bowe try.

Missed kicks are a feature of world cup so far. Sexton has had yips in past we know but kick pctgs are low so far

if poc must have donners beside him surely sexton deserves a go with reddan worked well the last outing. Both are key units

by dublin_dave Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:06 pm

Mckay. wait until kidney names team. Remember a 600reply post after team was named for one of 6nations games for the old board

In the words of the bachman turner overdrive, you aint seen nothing yet. Think announcement is tomorrow

by mrsuperclear Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:08 pm

roddersm wrote:Sin all weekend top class kickers were missing kicks that they would normally have got including Dan Carter, James Hook, Jonny Wilkinson, Chris Patterson and Filipe Contepomi.

Do you think all these guys should be dropped too?

Sexton did not have his best game but didn't get great service. O'Gara wasn't great either and was poor against England too.

I think we should stick with Reddan (I assume you mean Sexton) against Australia because the game suits his abilities better and if he plays well he's better than O'Gara is.

That's based on us being able to do what to Australia exactly? On us having a backline that can secure a bonus point against the worst team in the competition? Oh wait. There seems to be this wonderful theory that playing Sexton will result in a truck loads of try's and us playing wonderful rugby. It's complete nonsense to suppose this current Irish team coached by Gaffney can do that or that ROG would do any worse than Sexton in my opinion. I think O'Gara is playing better and with more confidence based on the warm up's and yesterday and therefore he should start. I wouldn't get any more technical than that. I highly doubt it will make any difference to us beating Australia though so I won't fight you over it...

by Sin é Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:15 pm

roddersm wrote:Sin all weekend top class kickers were missing kicks that they would normally have got including Dan Carter, James Hook, Jonny Wilkinson, Chris Patterson and Filipe Contepomi.

Do you think all these guys should be dropped too?

Sexton did not have his best game but didn't get great service. O'Gara wasn't great either and was poor against England too.

I think we should stick with Reddan against Australia because the game suits his abilities better and if he plays well he's better than O'Gara is.

Wilko got 3 kicks and he was regarded as having a complete shocker. By the way, he is taking the criticism on the chin.
Carter got 4.
Paterson got 5.
Hook got 4.
Sexton got 2 - so he was the worst kicker around. Contepomi was injured and wasn't kicking - but he did nail a penalty early on.

I'm sure they would be dropped if they had competent kickers on the bench.

by Sin é Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:22 pm

dublin_dave wrote:What would your backline be to play aus sin e? I know you dont rate reddan

Rog was better than sexton but nowhere near as made out on here. We were pretty poor and rudderless with rog on field also. I remember one neat kick pinning them back and a decent pass for bowe try.

Missed kicks are a feature of world cup so far. Sexton has had yips in past we know but kick pctgs are low so far

if poc must have donners beside him surely sexton deserves a go with reddan worked well the last outing. Both are key units

I'd move Sexton to 12, O'Gara at 10 and Murray at 9 - having a more experienced outhalf will help him. ROG hopefully will tell Heislip to get the finger out. I'm easy between Trimble/Earls though I think Earl's kicking game might edge it for him. If Kearney is not fit, I'd put Earls at fullback.

And just to repeat again in case I'm accused of some provincial bias - up to Saturday I had Sexton & Reddan as the starting pair against Australia.

by valjester Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:43 pm

Sin é wrote:
valjester wrote:
Sin é wrote:
valjester wrote:
Sin é wrote:

Why has Sexton to start if BOD is carrying an injury?

For the record, I posted that I thought Sexton & Reddan should start against Australia before the US game. Sexton is completely out of his comfort zone and isn't up to it I'm afraid at 10. Best thing Kidney could do is to play him at 12 and O'Gara at 10.

Its a bit predictable that Murray should pick up O'Leary's mantle in the blame game for Sexton's poor performance. It seems Murray can perform well with ROG and when the backrow get the finger out. The problem with Reddan (apart from always doing something hairbrained that results in the opposition getting a try), he is not physical enough and that is why Kidney has persisted so long with Tomas O'Leary.

Because he is much more physical in the tackle than rog. Starting rog and sexton for the first time against aus would be suicidal.
Sexton was poor, it wasn't murray's fault though.
Reddan has hopefully got his brainfarts out of the way, there is nothing wrong with his defence he was very good away against france when we where under a lot of pressure.

If you want someone to tackle, put them in the backrow. Someone needs to conduct the orchestra. It says a lot that Eddie O'Sullivan (O'Gara's old coach) didn't target O'Gara 'poor' defence.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that sexton started yesterday. Every player has to tackle, the bolded is pure nonsense. Sexton is perfectly capable of running a backline.

It seems to me he is not able to do both at the same time. You are the one who suggested that Sexton has to start because of BOD's injury! Are you implying that O'Gara doesn't tackle from your comment that 'every player has to tackle'. Have you ever noticed that its the forwards who generally make most tackles? Well, it looks like Sexton was doing Heislip's for him on Saturday as he probably put more tackles in that game than in any other international he has played on. No wonder the backline suffered. It didn't help as well that he kept going on the inside rather than trying to get the ball out to the wings/fullback.

I'm sure Sexton is well capable of running a backline - its just we haven't seen too much of it at international level and we can't afford to be missing kicking opportunities like he did against the US. All the heads drop around him when that happens. If they had built a score they might have been a bit less anxious about scoring the 4th try.

My 'every player has to tackle' comment was in reply to you saying that tackling was for backrowers.

Sexton has shown on plenty of occasions that he can run a backline, he has also shown if necessary he can play the corners. At this stage his kick is longer than rogs and for most of the season he was kicking at a high %. He isn't used to the new ball, not the only one to struggle with it, he will be better against australia. And before you say using the ball is an excuse, Rog has used that 'excuse' on plenty of occasions.

He won't miss as many against aus and he will mix up his game more.

by Sin é Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:58 pm

valjester wrote:
Sin é wrote:
valjester wrote:
Sin é wrote:
valjester wrote:
Sin é wrote:

Why has Sexton to start if BOD is carrying an injury?

For the record, I posted that I thought Sexton & Reddan should start against Australia before the US game. Sexton is completely out of his comfort zone and isn't up to it I'm afraid at 10. Best thing Kidney could do is to play him at 12 and O'Gara at 10.

Its a bit predictable that Murray should pick up O'Leary's mantle in the blame game for Sexton's poor performance. It seems Murray can perform well with ROG and when the backrow get the finger out. The problem with Reddan (apart from always doing something hairbrained that results in the opposition getting a try), he is not physical enough and that is why Kidney has persisted so long with Tomas O'Leary.

Because he is much more physical in the tackle than rog. Starting rog and sexton for the first time against aus would be suicidal.
Sexton was poor, it wasn't murray's fault though.
Reddan has hopefully got his brainfarts out of the way, there is nothing wrong with his defence he was very good away against france when we where under a lot of pressure.

If you want someone to tackle, put them in the backrow. Someone needs to conduct the orchestra. It says a lot that Eddie O'Sullivan (O'Gara's old coach) didn't target O'Gara 'poor' defence.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that sexton started yesterday. Every player has to tackle, the bolded is pure nonsense. Sexton is perfectly capable of running a backline.

It seems to me he is not able to do both at the same time. You are the one who suggested that Sexton has to start because of BOD's injury! Are you implying that O'Gara doesn't tackle from your comment that 'every player has to tackle'. Have you ever noticed that its the forwards who generally make most tackles? Well, it looks like Sexton was doing Heislip's for him on Saturday as he probably put more tackles in that game than in any other international he has played on. No wonder the backline suffered. It didn't help as well that he kept going on the inside rather than trying to get the ball out to the wings/fullback.

I'm sure Sexton is well capable of running a backline - its just we haven't seen too much of it at international level and we can't afford to be missing kicking opportunities like he did against the US. All the heads drop around him when that happens. If they had built a score they might have been a bit less anxious about scoring the 4th try.

My 'every player has to tackle' comment was in reply to you saying that tackling was for backrowers.

Sexton has shown on plenty of occasions that he can run a backline, he has also shown if necessary he can play the corners. At this stage his kick is longer than rogs and for most of the season he was kicking at a high %. He isn't used to the new ball, not the only one to struggle with it, he will be better against australia. And before you say using the ball is an excuse, Rog has used that 'excuse' on plenty of occasions.

He won't miss as many against aus and he will mix up his game more.

Not much point of Sexton's kick is longer than O'Gara's if he is not going to put it between the posts from under the posts. They have had the ball to practice with since the Autumn internationals so it must be something to do with playing in New Zealand - maybe the noise during the kicks is getting to him.

ROG hasn't used the excuse of the ball on this occasion. It was slightly different then as well - Italy away was the only game in the 6Ns when there was a different ball used.

by valjester Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:02 pm

Sin é wrote:

Not much point of Sexton's kick is longer than O'Gara's if he is not going to put it between the posts from under the posts. They have had the ball to practice with since the Autumn internationals so it must be something to do with playing in New Zealand - maybe the noise during the kicks is getting to him.

ROG hasn't used the excuse of the ball on this occasion. It was slightly different then as well - Italy away was the only game in the 6Ns when there was a different ball used.

He has used it on tours of new zealand before. They haven't had the match balls the whole time and to say the noise got to him is a load of s**t. He has played in much louder, and more intense, atmospheres than yesterday.

by Standulstermen Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:02 pm

The reason we got Bowes 2nd try was because Ferris had been softening the tacklers up all afternoon and he drew 3 defenders in leaving the space fro Bowe and BOD's exchange.

It was however beautifully exploited by ROG who is on form and in fairness is making his tackles as far as i can see. He also deserves stick for that kick at the end. Trimble is getting lambasted for booting it from his own 22. ROG booted it on the opposition 22!!! I would still go with ROG next week though. we cannot afford to miss kicks against Oz, end of story.

To be honest i am massively against Trimble in the centre as it ballsed him up before. That being said he is probably a better option than D'arce at the moment.

What we need to do in attack is have Ferris, SOB and Heaslip (particularly the two former) running screens and then have Trimble and Bowe running in behind.

by mrsuperclear Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:17 pm

Standulstermen wrote:The reason we got Bowes 2nd try was because Ferris had been softening the tacklers up all afternoon and he drew 3 defenders in leaving the space fro Bowe and BOD's exchange.

It was however beautifully exploited by ROG who is on form and in fairness is making his tackles as far as i can see. He also deserves stick for that kick at the end. Trimble is getting lambasted for booting it from his own 22. ROG booted it on the opposition 22!!! I would still go with ROG next week though. we cannot afford to miss kicks against Oz, end of story.

To be honest i am massively against Trimble in the centre as it ballsed him up before. That being said he is probably a better option than D'arce at the moment.

What we need to do in attack is have Ferris, SOB and Heaslip (particularly the two former) running screens and then have Trimble and Bowe running in behind.

Exactly Stand! The backrow, aside from Ferris, was fairly anonymous yesterday. And never mind dummy runs in attack, if we can't even secure our own possession against the U.S.,what in the hell will Pocock and Co. do to us? Scary thoughts....

by Thomond Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:42 pm

I agree with what Gibson said. ROG is the many for the OZ game,we play open rugby we will be crucified. We currently do not have the skill levels to play like this. Too many unforced errors. Cup rugby and some luck then maybe.

by **rodders** Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:14 pm

Thomond wrote:I agree with what Gibson said. ROG is the many for the OZ game,we play open rugby we will be crucified. We currently do not have the skill levels to play like this. Too many unforced errors. Cup rugby and some luck then maybe.

If we boot the ball away we'll be crucified. If ROG get's isolated we'll be crucified. If ROG ships the ball along the backline, like he's been doing all season, we'll be crucified.

Did anyone see how easy Emerick picked up that intercept? Yes D'arcy threw the pass but anyone who's done any analysis on O'Gara will see how predictable he has become in open play.

Sexton at least can play off the cuff and take the ball into contact. He'll keep the Australian defence honest and commit defenders.

Who is suggesting we throw the ball around? Some of you seem to think Sexton has been throwing the ball around kamakaze style and ROG has been putting in commanding controlled performances. I'm not sure what rugby you've been watching but ROG has been spreading the ball to the touchline all season, without much success and bar a few virtuoso cameo displays hasn't put in a top display in an Ireland shirt in a couple of seasons, whereas Sexton was the driving force in Leinsters HEC victory and at the helm for Irelands only top performance in the past 2 seasons.

by Thomond Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:22 pm

Sexton can't kick to the coners,the kid is a bag of nerves,I'm one of his biggest supporters but he doesn't appear to be mentally ready for this WC. He was the driving force of the HC win,this is a big step up. I have seen him lead for Ireland in one game.

Rodders,I have seen Munster more than you have so don't go spouting that BS that you're a better fan than me. ROG is still capable of hitting the corners like no one in world rugby. Our lineout is a big weapon against OZ. I'm expecting a big performance and I know we can deliver,I would be in favour of ROG starting but I will back Sexton to the hilt if he plays.

We're all Ireland fans it's time to leave the provincial rubbish to the side.

by Glas a du Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:24 pm

We're all Ireland fans it's time to leave the provincial rubbish to the side.

that'll be the day... music

by Rava Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:25 pm

Rory Best should start the game against Australia.
1. The scrum is much more effective when he is in the front row.
2. Darts were straight and true. All jumpers hit.
3. His all round performance in the loose was as good as any on Sunday.
4. He scored a try.

Discuss!!

by Thomond Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:26 pm

Glas,world peace will increase by 41.9% if my vision is realised. Rava,I'm not Best's biggest fan but he played well yesterday and de Fla was poor so I would be happy with him starting.

by Glas a du Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:33 pm

I think your best team is

15-9 Murphy, Trimble, BOD, Wallace, Fitzgerald, Sexton, Boss
1-8 Court, Best, Ross, DOC, POC, Ferris, Jennings, Heaslip.

However, I think that BOD and Heaslip are in need of a rest after the Australia game.

by Thomond Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:35 pm

Jennings shouldn't be in that team,was a passenger yesterday and in most Ireland matches. Court over Healy is interesting!

by Tayto Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:35 pm

Sexton blew it end of.

If I was going to select him it would only be at 12 (anyone is better than Darcy) Time to bring down the curtains on this fella.
Healy for Court
O Brien for Jennings
ROG for Sexton
Trimble for Earls
Sexton for the superstar Darcy
Earls for Murphy

A big red hot poker to shove up Heaslips rear end to get playing and working around the park.

That just might do

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