How unprofessional was Roberto Duran

No question Duran was one of the most loved fighters of any generation a fighters fighter. He embodied Latin pride better then any fighter and was a hero to most. Duran's style of fighting has been the inspiration to many fighters after him and can be viewed as the greatest lightweight of all time. However the man was a disgrace out side the ring and as disrespectful as any fighter I have ever seen. Lets just clear a few things up here....

1) He never admitted to punching Ken Buchannon low effectivley ending their contest. Poor Ken still lives with the effects of that injury to this day yet Duran has stated that Buchannon was play acting in order to find a way out of the fight.

2) Never gave Leonard any credit after the 2nd fight where he was outboxed. Duran claimed he was humiliated and called Leonard's skill and movement cowardice and running he never gave Leonard the credit for being brave enough to fight his fight in the first bout. He then blamed his woeful performance on the fact that his manager had been offered a great deal of money to except the fight straight away leaving Duran little time to prepare. Now this fight was a re-match any fighter will remain disciplined enough to be in shape for the inevitable re-match.

3) Lied about No mas and is still lying to this day. Claims he had stomach cramps.

4) Admitted to not training for the Hearns slappage. Poor professionalism.

5) Never gave his opponants any credit after their fights a trait carried on by Julio Ceasar Chavez wholooked up to Duran.

Great fighter but a terrible human being.

Rolled like a drunk club fighter.

1) Buchanan punched him low too and was likely milking it for a DQ.
2) Standard, they didn't get on. Leonard admits Duran being underprepared was the reason for the timing of the fight.
3) Probably.
4) He was professional until after Leonard I.
5) Lot of boxers are the same.

Thats rubbish Leonard never admitted to that Scottrf.

Yes he did.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Thats rubbish Leonard never admitted to that Scottrf.

He did actually, it was in Roberto Duran's biography and Four Kings and was a direct quote from Leonard. Along the lines of "I knew he'd be the party man for a while afterwards so I wanted the rematch straight away."

It's on Legendary Nights too I believe.

Yes he did, onetwo, you should do some reading from time to time.

The Leonard camp rushed the rematch through as they'd had word of Duran's extravagant partying after the bout in Montreal. They figured getting him back in the ring so soon after ballooning in weight would affect him negatively.

That does not prove anything. So they knew he was a party animal so what! Duran could have said no. Leonard and his camp NEVER used that as an excuse.

Yep, Leonard and his camp knew Duran would balloon up in weight after the fight and timed the rematch as to give Duran little time to effectively lose a huge amount of weight.

One thing i've never liked about Leonard is he openly admits using sly tactics in his fights and acts like a little kid about it, maybe it stems from being touched up by his trainer!

So they knew he would have ballooned in weight, making his training camp much tougher and putting his body through unnecessary rigours. That suggests he may not have had time to get into optimum fighting shape.

It isn't rocket science.

To be fair to Leonard think someone in Duran's camp has admitted they were keen to take the rematch because they feared Roberto would never stop partying if they didn't. Can't blame Ray for it, smart thing to do. Duran is a great fighter, if someone like him is daft enough to give you a chance to get him at something other than his best you'd have to be an absolute fool not to take it and Ray certainly is no fool.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:That does not prove anything. So they knew he was a party animal so what! Duran could have said no. Leonard and his camp NEVER used that as an excuse.

The offer made to Duran for the rematch was a great deal more than he earned from the first, so he signed it.

It is fact that Leonard exploited the fact Duran was going to go and enjoy his victory a bit too much. You can't argue with it when it came from Leonard himself.

Give it up onetwo, agree with the above without retyping and repeating

I think Duran and Leonard did an ad for Pepsi or something aswell and Leonard said Duran was very pleasant, spent time entertaining Leonards children etc

You hear plenty of stories of Durans generosity also. Went to visit the dying De Jesus with his daughter in hospital at a time when AIDS victims were treated like lepers. Large doantions to various charities.

Definately not a terrible human being.

Most of these criticisms, or variants of them, could be levelled at the vast majority of great fighters since the dawn of the Queensbury age, and those which couldn't could be replaced by others.

Grossly unfair and unrepresentative to target Duran specifically.

Disagree with you windy Duran's case is quite unique.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Disagree with you windy Duran's case is quite unique.

Of course it isn't unique.

I could name a dozen high profile fighters off the top of my head at whom most of your charges could be levelled, and who could have various others levelled at them to substitute for the specifics of the ' No Mas ' incident.

This seems to be merely sensationalist jingoism designed to curry favour with Truss.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Thats rubbish Leonard never admitted to that Scottrf.

He certainly did.

This seems to be merely sensationalist jingoism designed to curry favour with Truss..

Whilst the general sentiment will certainly curry favour with Truss, onetwo's complete inability to go on the offensive when proven to be talking rubbish will not endear him to our chubby American friend. At being proved wrong, as onetow has been above, Truss would immediately have started calling other posters "muppets" and woud have cannily changed the subject by casually introducing the phrase "rolled like a drunk".

Must do better, onetwo.

Just on the quick leonard rematch, there was over 5 months between the 1st and 2nd fight, Looking at boxrec, 5 months was a long layoff for both boxers (up to that point in their careers), they were both used to fighting every few months. 10-12 week training camp, + another 2 months partying,...It was hardely an immediate rematch.

What I disllike about Leonard, is that he is always so keen to get on camara and tell the world how smart he was, immediate rematch, Stealing rounds against Hagler... If he kept his mouth shut, I'd respect him more for his incredible boxing ability. In someways he almost takes the shine off his greatest performances.

superflyweight wrote:

This seems to be merely sensationalist jingoism designed to curry favour with Truss..

Whilst the general sentiment will certainly curry favour with Truss, onetwo's complete inability to go on the offensive when proven to be talking rubbish will not endear him to our chubby American friend. At being proved wrong, as onetow has been above, Truss would immediately have started calling other posters "muppets" and woud have cannily changed the subject by casually introducing the phrase "rolled like a drunk".

Must do better, onetwo.

Agreed nobody has even been told to go and get five other posters to make it a fair fight yet, schoolboy error that.

Like the use of the phrase "curry favour" in reference to TRUSS. For the life in me, I can't imagine why anyone would WANT to curry favour with the great oaf though.

Must do better, onetwo. - seems highly unlikely that will ever happen

Back to pretending you're a poster on ESB onetwo

(who was it he claimed to be until Windy contacted him and showed him up?)

jimdig wrote:Just on the quick leonard rematch, there was over 5 months between the 1st and 2nd fight, Looking at boxrec, 5 months was a long layoff for both boxers (up to that point in their careers), they were both used to fighting every few months. 10-12 week training camp, + another 2 months partying,...It was hardely an immediate rematch.

What I disllike about Leonard, is that he is always so keen to get on camara and tell the world how smart he was, immediate rematch, Stealing rounds against Hagler... If he kept his mouth shut, I'd respect him more for his incredible boxing ability. In someways he almost takes the shine off his greatest performances.

i agree jim, its like he's rather be credited with being a trickster than a great fighter... clearly his chip on the shoulder is an intellectual one.

Most would rather claim the opponent had all the advantages, srl does the opposite

coxy0001 wrote:Back to pretending you're a poster on ESB onetwo

(who was it he claimed to be until Windy contacted him and showed him up?)

That's nothing on Ghosty claiming to be editor of Classic Rock magazine.

Scottrf wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:Back to pretending you're a poster on ESB onetwo

(who was it he claimed to be until Windy contacted him and showed him up?)

That's nothing on Ghosty claiming to be editor of Classic Rock magazine.

!?!??

Is Ghosty banned? Was never the same after Azania got "mod" status and then preceeded to be the biggest WUM on here.

milkyboy wrote:

jimdig wrote:Just on the quick leonard rematch, there was over 5 months between the 1st and 2nd fight, Looking at boxrec, 5 months was a long layoff for both boxers (up to that point in their careers), they were both used to fighting every few months. 10-12 week training camp, + another 2 months partying,...It was hardely an immediate rematch.

What I disllike about Leonard, is that he is always so keen to get on camara and tell the world how smart he was, immediate rematch, Stealing rounds against Hagler... If he kept his mouth shut, I'd respect him more for his incredible boxing ability. In someways he almost takes the shine off his greatest performances.

i agree jim, its like he's rather be credited with being a trickster than a great fighter... clearly his chip on the shoulder is an intellectual one.

Most would rather claim the opponent had all the advantages, srl does the opposite

Exactly milky, I never thought it through properly but I think you hit the nail on the head, he seems to have a chip on his shoulder about how his intelligence is perceived.

coxy0001 wrote:Back to pretending you're a poster on ESB onetwo

(who was it he claimed to be until Windy contacted him and showed him up?)

Oh do tell?

Must admit my own sad ways in taking joy when OneTwo is caught out.
Still haven't forgiven him for a rather derogatory article he wrote about your's truly on the old 606!!

coxy0001 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

coxy0001 wrote:Back to pretending you're a poster on ESB onetwo

(who was it he claimed to be until Windy contacted him and showed him up?)

That's nothing on Ghosty claiming to be editor of Classic Rock magazine.

!?!??

Is Ghosty banned? Was never the same after Azania got "mod" status and then preceeded to be the biggest WUM on here.

I don't remember who it was but I do remember himbeing shown up as a liar when the person he claimed to be apparently claimed otherwise. It's a sad state of affairs when even one's own alter-egos want no association with you.

I believe Ghosty was banned, yes. Not sure if it was permanent. Shame if it was.

For the record I never curry favour with TRUSS windy. Don't you think it possible that more the 1 person can dislike a certain fighter?

All my points are valid.

badgerhands my article about you on the old 606 was in jest.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:badgerhands my article about you on the old 606 was in jest.

As are most of your articles it would appear.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:For the record I never curry favour with TRUSS windy. Don't you think it possible that more the 1 person can dislike a certain fighter?
All my points are valid.

badgerhands my article about you on the old 606 was in jest.

It's more to do with the fact that you two seem to hold exactly the same views about everything which leads us to think you're either the same person or an utterly pathetic suck up!

Harsh, Badger. You should read his Illuminati thread, it's a beauty, and deadly serious.

To be honest Tina it confused me, can't decide whether to be scared of them or the new world order, or both, or neither.

I think the message is, don't trust anyone jeff. Especially cows, birds and Bruce Forsyth.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:Harsh, Badger. You should read his Illuminati thread, it's a beauty, and deadly serious.

Is OneTwo David Icke?

I feel guilty, now, for having dragged Truss into a ruck not of his making and which really was nothing to do with him.

All I was driving at is that Truss, who is very much his own man and always stands up for his views, has often contributed highly controversial threads which have spawned spirited debate and passionate exchanges. Just seems odd that ONETWO often echoes these views, somewhat less convincingly, some time later.

If I'm wrong, I'm happy to apologize, ONETWO. It just seems that way, sometimes.

Either way, ONETWO and TRUSS certainly aren't the same person.

To prove Windy's point about how easy it is to do this with anyone lets take Ali shall we

Never gave Foreman a rematch

Used to hold opponents round the back of the head which is cheating

Called Frazier some shameful thnings and never apologised for this.

Didn't train properly and lost to an eight fight novice. Unprofessional

Great fighter but a horrible human being.

rowley wrote:To prove Windy's point about how easy it is to do this with anyone lets take Ali shall we

Never gave Foreman a rematch

Used to hold opponents round the back of the head which is cheating

Called Frazier some shameful thnings and never apologised for this.

Didn't train properly and lost to an eight fight novice. Unprofessional

Great fighter but a horrible human being.

Now try with Anthony Small

I'm good but not that good Manos.

rowley wrote:To prove Windy's point about how easy it is to do this with anyone lets take Ali shall we

Never gave Foreman a rematch

Used to hold opponents round the back of the head which is cheating

Called Frazier some shameful thnings and never apologised for this.

Didn't train properly and lost to an eight fight novice. Unprofessional

Great fighter but a horrible human being.

I know it was sarcasm Rowley but an element of truth about your post sir.
I think Ali treated Frazier really badly. Used him and abused him.

Ali is like the reverse Tyson. Ali had surface charm, Tyson was all animal on the surface. But when you dug deeper, you end up liking Ali a lot less, and liking Tyson a lot more.


Ali gets a pass for a lot of things for some reason

Agree Cribb, do think he deep down means well but there has been an almost deification of him which doesn't fit the facts. Think the problem is he is put on such a pedestal almost anyone would fall short of the standards some set for him. Think he was certainly naive in his youth, particularly in some of his NOI pronouncements. But as you say he was no kid by the time of the Frazier fights and so can't just get a pass on some of his comments.

Not sure if you have read Mark Kram's Ghosts of Manilla, didn't agree with every thing he says but the book is a fascinating counter balance to the usual Ali biographies that tend to be pure hagiographies.

Thanks Rowley, shamefully I haven't but thanks for the recommendation I shall I have look out for that one, agree with your comments


I personally believe that when Ali looked at Frazier he essentially saw himself: an uneducated, southern, black man, struggling to make a living with his fists. Ali scapegoated Frazier because Joe mirrored back to him the very things that he felt ashamed of in himself. He cruelly picked on Frazier due to his own misgivings about himself. Im certainly happy Joe bettered Ali in the FOTC Ali tried to make himself seem more sophisticated than Joe, but Muhammad was no brainchild either, not by a long shot.

I see both guys as victims of racism, and I do give Ali credit for fighting hard against it, but I think it's a shame that he hurt one of his own in the process.

Am I alone in thinking one reason people go easy on Ali is because he's stricken with Parkinson's? Same as not speaking ill of the dead.

Crikey balti, after Robinson got his kicking earlier this week it's Ali now, does appear the gloves are truly off on here this week.

rowley wrote:Crikey balti, after Robinson got his kicking earlier this week it's Ali now, does appear the gloves are truly off on here this week.

Mother Teresa's turn tomorrow.

tcribb wrote:

rowley wrote:Crikey balti, after Robinson got his kicking earlier this week it's Ali now, does appear the gloves are truly off on here this week.

Mother Teresa's turn tomorrow.

BALTI has already done her (no pun intended).

You know what I mean though; people see the state of Ali now and it's a tragic thing no-one would wish on anyone, whatever they've done (with the possible exceptions of Michael Bay and the one who's not the gay one off Pineapple Dance Studios).

tcribb wrote:
I see both guys as victims of racism, and I do give Ali credit for fighting hard against it, but I think it's a shame that he hurt one of his own in the process.

The way I see it, Ali was fighting racial inequality, but was himself an active racist.

In the documentary about the Thrilla in Manilla he talks (in high spirits) about how he spoke at a Klu Klutz Klan rally! He agreed with them in that he believe white and black shouldn't mix ... shocking stuff.

Joe Frazier actively helped Ali out after prison (if I remember including financial help), and petitioned for his boxing liscence to be re-instated only for Ali to turn around and use racist language against him.

The documentary (which is so interesting even my wife sat through all of it) does not cover Ali in glory ...