Who will win the 2012 Six Nations?

Will Wales overcome the dissapointment and show some consistency?

Will France show they are the best in the NH?

Will England show some steel and retain the Championship?

Will the Irish Golden Generation bow out with some style?

Will Scotland learn to score tries and deliver on their promise?

Will Italy surprise us all?

I would rate Ireland, Wales and France as possibles. Also depending on the fixtures. Do you know what they will be?

Too many variables to tell and home advantage still plays a massive part in the tournament. For instance

Ireland have England and France away
Wales have Ireland and England away
France have Wales away
England have France away (and the Calcutta Cup is in murrayfield)

On the basis of that i would suggest possibly France and England have the easier run of games. That being said Wales are looking like the best NH side at present (although who knows how France will look under Saint-Andre)
If Wales win in Dublin on the first week they will have terrific momentum. Then again we may well be talking about having the RWC winners in the competition. Who knows.

Some really tasty fixtures in next year's tournament: Ireland will want to right a few wrongs when Wales come to Lansdowne Road and Wales versus France in Cardiff should be a humdinger.

Stand, France should be rejuvenated under Saint-Andre and they're always in the mix whoever's at the helm. It'll be interesting to see how England fare whether there are changes in the coaching setup or not.

Cardiff Taffy wrote:Will Wales overcome the dissapointment and show some consistency?

Will France show they are the best in the NH?

Will England show some steel and retain the Championship?

Will the Irish Golden Generation bow out with some style?

Will Scotland learn to score tries and deliver on their promise?

Will Italy surprise us all?

It's impossible to say at this stage really. On Englands 6N and AI performance I honestly thought we would be the strongest NH side going into the RWC and finally showing some form. Ho Hum... we all know how that ended. 6 months (ish) away is a long time to go and a lot of domestic stuff to get out of the way first.

France, the World Champions, will probably finish bottom!

Wales need to keep improving, they still have a long way to go... But they should aim at a Grandslam.

France will be a new beast with St Andre in the drivers seat

Ireland will re organise, hopefully a few new faces in the team

Scotland will carry on the good work, they are close to being one of the better NH teams.

England, I dont know, it all ended a shambles. Lets see who coaches them and what players are retained.

Italy, they usually struggle the first year with a new coach as he generally tries to reinvent the wheel and Italian rugby suffers from it for the first twelve months

Yeah luckless

It is far too early to call. It will be very difficult for any team to do the Slam (as it always is).

i cant see a Slam personally but Wales in particular are a momentum team and if they can get some momentum they will be bloody difficult to stop

From an Irish point of view i would be happy if we blood a few new players and made the top half. I would be delighted with anything more than that but i do feel we need maybe 3/4 changes or new faces in the squad to begin rebuilding

It's going to be very interesting.

England could literally finish top or bottom.

biltongbek wrote:I would rate Ireland, Wales and France as possibles. Also depending on the fixtures. Do you know what they will be?

Yeah add England to the list. I don't think there's much between any of that 4 and they can all beat each other. Scotland and Italy are certainly capable of a few upsets but I don't think either will be challenging for the title.

Looking at the Fixtures you'd have to say Ireland have the toughest fixtures.

I'd be surprised if there was a GS next season.

Always such a great tournament and I agree it's too early to call really.
Good to test the mood though. For me the main contenders would be Ireland or Wales if RWC form continues.

biltongbek wrote:I would rate Ireland, Wales and France as possibles. Also depending on the fixtures. Do you know what they will be?

Yeah Biltong, the fixtures are the same every other year, so Wales has all the blue teams home this year (France, Italy, Scotland) and then all the blue teams away next year. We've managed the Slam both ways round, but for me the 'easiest' (it's never easy!) is when we have Ireland and England at home and the blue teams away.

maestegmafia wrote:

Scotland will carry on the good work, they are close to being one of the better NH teams.

Thanks for that Masteg, If Scotland can find a decent 12 I reckon we WILL be one of the better NH teams on Par with the others at least. We have a very good pack from 1 to 8,

Jackson is gaining experience and growing with every Test cap and Blair, Cusiter, Lawson and Laidlaw (my preference) all still with plenty of time left at scrum half the 9-10 axis might just start to become an area of strenght.

We have good back 3 options with Cuthbert, Danielli, S. Lamont, R. Lamont, Max Evans, Jones, Thompson, Hogg and soon Visser.

Good options at 13 with Ansbro, NDL, Scott, Bennet. We just need a good 12.

With nothing to really back it up I expect England to win all fo their home maches and away against Scotland.

With a loss to France I expect it to come down to points as a few other teams will be in the same boat. Probably a very close comp (or one team to storm it).

Saint Andre as France coach doesn't worry me, i've seen nothing to make me think he'll be any better then Gatland or Kidney or even MJ (if still there). I expect it to be more of the same style with him in place, lots of kicking and structored defence, only attacking through the oppositions mistakes.

Radge, what sort of inside centre would you prefer to see: a hard-running Jamie Roberts type or a second playmaker?

Probably France or England 1st/2nd
Ireland 3rd
Wales 4th
Scotland/Italy fighting to avoid the spoon.

if the best team wins the 6N it will be wales. but we know that the best team doesnt always win

Wales
France
Ireland
Italy
England
Scotland

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Radge, what sort of inside centre would you prefer to see: a hard-running Jamie Roberts type or a second playmaker?

Dunno Luckless, I reckon that is perhaps the sort of mould we would be looking for, someone to front up well defencively and break the gainline to put someone like Ansbro, Evans, NDL in space to make the most of their talents. Morrison should be able to do that but for reasons best known to himself he slows down when he takes the ball into contact and never really breaks the gain line.

However there is merrit to having a smaller play making centre rather than another crash ball merchant. Personally I would like to see how Jackson does at 12 with Weir at 10. To be honest I'm not entirely sure what kind of 12 would best suit Scotland. One thing I know for certain is that I hope we have seen the last of the Parks/Morrison combo.

dogtooth wrote:if the best team wins the 6N it will be wales

Don't Wales normally finish 4th in the 6 Nations these days? A bit like in this world cup.

Cardiff Taffy wrote:Always such a great tournament and I agree it's too early to call really.
Good to test the mood though. For me the main contenders would be Ireland or Wales if RWC form continues.

What RWC form did Ireland show? As for the 6 Nations, I think they'll be in a transition due to bringing in a few new players and losing ones like O'Gara, O'Driscoll, O'Connel and others over the age of thirty maybe(there's a few).

I see it as a 3-course race between Wales, England and a PSA France.

Morgannwg wrote:
What RWC form did Ireland show? As for the 6 Nations, I think they'll be in a transition due to bringing in a few new players and losing ones like O'Gara, O'Driscoll, O'Connel and others over the age of thirty maybe(there's a few).

O'Gara, O'Driscoll and O'Connell are all contracted until 2013 as are the other 30 somethings (D'arcy, Ross and O'Callaghan). The rest of the team are in their 20's so there won't be that many changes to the starting line up.

I think Ireland did show some excellent form in the RWC, albeit not when it mattered most. But that's just, like, my opinion man.

"Some really tasty fixtures in next year's tournament"

A bit like last years then!

I personally think it'll be between Eng and Wales. Eng have their two hardest games at Twickenham and are likely to have an improved squad. France away isn't easy but think the lads will be after revenge and Paris brings out the best in them.

Morgannwg wrote:

Cardiff Taffy wrote:Always such a great tournament and I agree it's too early to call really.
Good to test the mood though. For me the main contenders would be Ireland or Wales if RWC form continues.

What RWC form did Ireland show? As for the 6 Nations, I think they'll be in a transition due to bringing in a few new players and losing ones like O'Gara, O'Driscoll, O'Connel and others over the age of thirty maybe(there's a few).

I see it as a 3-course race between Wales, England and a PSA France.

Their form was patchy, as it has been recently, but I thought there were moments. I'd pick them over France, Scotland or England at the moment. There will be tranisition and new caps perhaps but I wouldn't expect BOD or O'Connell to go just yet.

I see the biggest threats coming from Wales and England and have just erred on the side of England. They were actually playing decent Rugby until Johnston decided to revert to Wilkinson and play Tindal at IC.
I believe IF they go for a more attacking 10/12 then they would be the team to beat. The back three are such a threat.
Wales will hopefully complete their WC with a third place on Friday and will be raring to go come the spring. Having to travel to Landsdowne and Twickenham might prove too difficult though. I would expect them to beat the French and it could be a close call for the title.
As for Ireland, they will be a team in transition for the next year or so. We always struggle in the season where we travel to both London and Paris and I cannot see that changing for next season.
Unfortunately neither Scotland or Italy will be in a position to win the championship but either or both are quite capable of taking the scalp of any of the others so their games could have a major bearing on the eventual outcome.

HERSH wrote:"Some really tasty fixtures in next year's tournament"

A bit like last years then!

I think it will be very close. I genuinely think that the top 4 teams are very close together.

England are the reigning champs and will be fired up after a poor RWC.

France are RWC finalists (maybe champs ) and with Leivremont gone they might start playing to their potential.

Wales were the form NH team in the RWC and were very unfortunate not to be in the final.

Ireland showed they were still a force to be reckoned with by turning over Australia and thumping Italy but it could be hard for some of the older guys to raise themselves after another WC disappointment but it they can they'll be in the mix.

iso wrote:Wales
France
Ireland
Italy
England
Scotland

roddersm wrote:
O'Gara, O'Driscoll and O'Connell are all contracted until 2013 as are the other 30 somethings (D'arcy, Ross and O'Callaghan). The rest of the team are in their 20's so there won't be that many changes to the starting line up.

I think Ireland did show some excellent form in the RWC, albeit not when it mattered most. But that's just, like, my opinion man.

Cardiff Taffy wrote:
Their form was patchy, as it has been recently, but I thought there were moments. I'd pick them over France, Scotland or England at the moment. There will be tranisition and new caps perhaps but I wouldn't expect BOD or O'Connell to go just yet.

For the calibre of some of Ireland's players I think the team has been in poor form all year. rodders, they're contracted to the IRFU, so please correct if I'm wrong this does not gaurantee they will play for Ireland but gaurantees they will play in Ireland until 2013? The 30 somethings (BOD, ROG, POC, DOC and D'Arcy) are the exact players I would drop. They're showing poor form and I don't feel they have anything left to offer, perhaps they're past it even? I would definitely expect O'Driscoll to retire and then maybe consider a player/coach role at Leinster for the next couple of years. The Province's will remain strong though.

Going back to what was mentioned about Ireland's form. It's been poor, not patchy. The win over Australia was tactically spot on but every Ireland player still had to perform and they did just that. Before that they had lost four games in the RWC warm-ups and struggled to put USA away. After Aus they then struggled to beat Italy failing to get the bonus point wins. Ireland over a year ago would have put at least 40, maybe even 60 points on both teams. Soundly beaten by Wales in the quarter final, a team they have had a decade of dominance over whilst the core of players in that Ireland remained the same. Would you consider that Aus win a one-off and now Ireland need to build a new core of players? I certaily do.

So they may have a hard time in the 2012 Six Nations but still have enough to put Scotland and Italy away. Wales, England and France will be more settled. It'll be interesting to see if Wales have become more consistent.

France on 2% England on 25%. If I knew how, I'd love to be a bookie for you lot.

Morgannwg wrote:

roddersm wrote:
O'Gara, O'Driscoll and O'Connell are all contracted until 2013 as are the other 30 somethings (D'arcy, Ross and O'Callaghan). The rest of the team are in their 20's so there won't be that many changes to the starting line up.

I think Ireland did show some excellent form in the RWC, albeit not when it mattered most. But that's just, like, my opinion man.

Cardiff Taffy wrote:
Their form was patchy, as it has been recently, but I thought there were moments. I'd pick them over France, Scotland or England at the moment. There will be tranisition and new caps perhaps but I wouldn't expect BOD or O'Connell to go just yet.

For the calibre of some of Ireland's players I think the team has been in poor form all year. rodders, they're contracted to the IRFU, so please correct if I'm wrong this does not gaurantee they will play for Ireland but gaurantees they will play in Ireland until 2013? The 30 somethings (BOD, ROG, POC, DOC and D'Arcy) are the exact players I would drop. They're showing poor form and I don't feel they have anything left to offer, perhaps they're past it even? I would definitely expect O'Driscoll to retire and then maybe consider a player/coach role at Leinster for the next couple of years. The Province's will remain strong though.

Going back to what was mentioned about Ireland's form. It's been poor, not patchy. The win over Australia was tactically spot on but every Ireland player still had to perform and they did just that. Before that they had lost four games in the RWC warm-ups and struggled to put USA away. After Aus they then struggled to beat Italy failing to get the bonus point wins. Ireland over a year ago would have put at least 40, maybe even 60 points on both teams. Soundly beaten by Wales in the quarter final, a team they have had a decade of dominance over whilst the core of players in that Ireland remained the same. Would you consider that Aus win a one-off and now Ireland need to build a new core of players? I certaily do.

So they may have a hard time in the 2012 Six Nations but still have enough to put Scotland and Italy away. Wales, England and France will be more settled. It'll be interesting to see if Wales have become more consistent.

They are paid for and employed by the IRFU. i cant see any of them not being used. They dont have to be selected but the IRFU arent going to want others in their place provincially if they are paying them.

The only one that will lose their place internationally of the big three is ROG most likely. I think you are being slightly harsh about Ireland in the pool stage. We humped italy, we certainly didnt struggle and won our pool. That being said overall i think you are right in that we do need to start to phase some guys out and bring new ones in. hopefully starting this 6N!

Morgannwg: Stand has already answered the one about the contract.

I think you are being extremely harsh. All of the players mentioned have produced some excellent rugby recently, particularly O'Connell who had been one of the best 2nd rows in the competition.

I think D'arcy may struggle to keep his place and O'Callaghan may find himself not being an automatic pick next season.

One sub par performance against Wales and a scrappy opening performance apart Ireland played some of their best rugby in years in the RWC, so I think we will still be competitive in the 6N, even if England, France and Wales maybe have a slightly better chance at the title IMO.

Somebody book mark this and bring it back on the eve of the Italy/France Grand Slam decider.

I honestly cant believe people are voting for Ireland and Scotland ahead of France. Wales have a good chance of beating, england less so as they are away but i cant get over that poll.

France a team in disarray have made a RWC final. imagine what they could do if they like the coach!

I realise my opinion sounds harsh, but it is only my opinion. O'Connel is a great player, I just wasn't sure if he is going to retire or not. I do think it's definitely time for Ireland to move on from ROG, BOD, DOC and D'Arcy though. The pool was won, but it was only ever a two-horse race. Beating Aus was magnificent but I still feel it was a one-off when relfecting on the form of the whole year, that includes all other RWC games in which I don't think Ireland were as good as they can be.

They may struggle in 2012, but it will be to there benefit eventually. I've been impressed with some of the backs at Ulster so why not try out a new midfield?

Oui i like zis coach. It has its own Michelin star restaurant, crimson crushed velvet seats with gold trim and a hole in ze floor as a toilet! Tres bien!

I've been impressed with some of the backs at Ulster...

You don't understand, there's a quota system in place. It's a long story...

Glas a du wrote:France on 2% England on 25%. If I knew how, I'd love to be a bookie for you lot.

I think that is more to do with very few French posters on here.

At this moment in time it is too early to say who will win, or have a chance of winning the 2012 6ns.

I do believe that all teams will have players retiring and new players coming through, so unless we see how the players coming in to the teams perform.

So being an English man of course i would like to see England win.
But who(player wise) will be coming in to the Englang team, who will be the head coach of England 2012 6ns?

So it will be a question of how the new players coming in to the respective teams. And how well they perform?

Morgannwg wrote:I realise my opinion sounds harsh, but it is only my opinion. O'Connel is a great player, I just wasn't sure if he is going to retire or not. I do think it's definitely time for Ireland to move on from ROG, BOD, DOC and D'Arcy though. The pool was won, but it was only ever a two-horse race. Beating Aus was magnificent but I still feel it was a one-off when relfecting on the form of the whole year, that includes all other RWC games in which I don't think Ireland were as good as they can be.

They may struggle in 2012, but it will be to there benefit eventually. I've been impressed with some of the backs at Ulster so why not try out a new midfield?

Many people on here werent convinced Ireland would beat Italy. To win the pool the way they did was why they were favourites for the QF. That being said i think Wales have shown the way in terms of blooding youngsters and giving youth its head.

Ireland wont go mad with the changes because the 6N is our bread and butter and too important to sacrifice entirely. You mention D'arcy and DOC though who will (imo) begin to be phased out now and ROG will (hopefully) now be replaced by Sexton. Thats not an indictment on him before the Munster lads are on to me.

I think and hope we will see Spence in the 6N in place of D'arcy and Gilroy wont be too far away. I would take a couple of years of mediocrity in order to get these young guys involved but im not sure many casual fans or the IRFU would agree

Sometimes teams need a kick up the bakcside- all this lovey dovey press for the welsh may not help matters, on the other hand england have to repay there fans back abit- i personally cant see any team winning GS this time, and any of the big 4 can win.

but offcourse i am english so that is how i am going for

I would say France for the following reasons:

- Players. They have a fantastic pool of players from which to choose.

- New Coach. I've seen Gatland, Kidney and Lievremont come in and deliver instead results. I expect PSA to do the same as teams will have to try adapt to the changes he will bring.

- Kind fixture schedule. The French start at home to Italy. Another home match against Ireland before a trip to Edinburgh. Back to Paris against England and then a final match against Wales. A kind fixture schedule IMO with key home matches.

PSA has cut his coaching teeth in England. During the honeymoon period that will be seen as an asset, but as things go wrong it will be the stick that's used to beat him.

Glas a du wrote:PSA has cut his coaching teeth in England. During the honeymoon period that will be seen as an asset, but as things go wrong it will be the stick that's used to beat him.

Agree

England tend not to like Murrayfield too much either - we need to square things after 2 weeks ago

I really should know better but I think Wales have a great chance, I think Ireland will lose a few to retirement. Wales play them away first and it is winnable though again it is a 50/50 game and they do owe us one, but a good start out there will give us confidence.

Our second game is Scotland at home, Scotland have been awful this tournament, and show no sign of worrying any of the other top 4 teams. I can see Wales putting them to the sword to be honest, Wales can potentially dominate up front as well as smash them behind.

Our third game is England away.
England will spend the rest of the season looking for scapegoats and hammering their players confidence, as well as a possible major review of their coaching team which will take time to bed in. I don;t think we will win this game as England will probably squash us up front like they have done already 3 times this year, but you never know.

Our 4th game is Wales against Italy and frankly without their brilliant coach Nick Mallett you do wonder what they will achieve.
Their main strength is their scrumage, but with Fabio Ongaro being 34 (hooker 76 caps), Andrea Lo Cicero being 35 (main back up prop 86 caps), Salvatore Perugini being 33 ( loose head 80 caps) you wonder if they will be around next season. I just don't think Italy has the calliber of players coming through in their traditional strongest area to trouble anyone next season.
Everything Italy do is based around their scrum if those players do retire then Martin Castrogiovanni will be all alone at loose head, with a very average Leonardo Ghiraldini at hooker, I'm not really sure who could cover Italy's tight head.
I had to Google their new coach Frenchman Jacques Brunel because I had no idea who he was, and found out he was an assistant coach in the French national team, as well as being the lucky coach who benefited from all the investment at Perpignan, but if you are able to buy any players you want because you have loads of money then you should be fairly successful so the jury is out.

The final game is France at home and you can bet the French wont want to come to us after what happened a few days ago!

Morgannwg wrote:I realise my opinion sounds harsh, but it is only my opinion. O'Connel is a great player, I just wasn't sure if he is going to retire or not. I do think it's definitely time for Ireland to move on from ROG, BOD, DOC and D'Arcy though. The pool was won, but it was only ever a two-horse race. Beating Aus was magnificent but I still feel it was a one-off when relfecting on the form of the whole year, that includes all other RWC games in which I don't think Ireland were as good as they can be.

They may struggle in 2012, but it will be to there benefit eventually. I've been impressed with some of the backs at Ulster so why not try out a new midfield?

No you have made some valid points. I too would like to see some changes too but as the older guys are still contracted generally still playing well I wouldn't expect to see wholesale changes come the 6N, especially if Kidney is still in charge. Theres a few guys who didn't quite make the RWC squad or are injured who I'd expect to see back too like Wallace, Jones, Tuohy, O'Leary, Fitzgerald etc.

As an Ulsterman I'm glad you are impressed with some of our backs, and there is some good talent around the provinces but I think they will be introduced gradually over the next few years. I'm not saying that is the best way but that is what I would expect to see.

I think a lot of how Wales go will depend on whether or not Gatland stays- I think the WRU are confident of keeping him, but a call from the All Blacks could change everything.

I expect Ireland to win 4 games, losing away to France but winning our home games. I'd say France will sneak it. New coach factor.

All this might sound harsh because Wales are far and away the best team in the NH, but thats the thing about the 6N. It has a habit of surprising us. Should they hold onto Gatland they may well start as favourites but a new-look France and a hopefully less inhibited Ireland will be there or thereabout if history has taught us anything.

Wales because they've already blooded the youngsters and the youngsters are performing very well, or France cos they will be utter humiliated by a rampant New Zealand in the final and will want to take it out on us. Wales, though, finally, cos they've stared on a new trajectory already that works, whilst others have yet to start them.

It has been said, but it's way too early to say who will do what in the six nations. Just look at the competition only a few months ago and look what happened in the RWC; England won it and couldn't get past the 1/4's, France got beaten by Italy and are in the final, Ireland could barely beat Scotland and Italy and only had one real performance of note and they beat the tri nations champions and Wales have also gone from mediocrity to being widely held to be, at the very least, the form team from the NH. Honestly, hand on heart, who would have bet a significant amount of money on any of that happening? Prior to the world cup the vast majority of people said England would beat France, SA will beat Ireland and Australia will beat Wales in the 1/4's. Just goes to show you can't predict this game....

It could all change back to the exact same or different in a few months time. For my money, I'd back France as well. They have a new coach (we've seen what that did with Gatland and Kidney) and the kindest fixture list. Added to that, they'll have got to a final playing shoite. Play well and they could easily do something special. I don't think anyone would be surprised if any of the regular four contenders won it though, and that's exactly what you want. What's the six nations if it doesn't have surprises and drama!!