Best of the past 20 years.

Who in your opinion have the best assets in the following categories? (Of the past 20 years.)

Best jab;
best right cross;
best hook;
best uppercut;
best chin;
best footwork;
best ring genralship;
best stamina;
best fundamentals;
fastest hands.

I know this is a bit short and sweet; but hoping to create some debate over who are the best fighters of the modern era in some key areas!

Best jab; Manny
best right cross; Manny
best hook; Manny
best uppercut; Manny
best chin; Manny
best footwork; Manny
best ring genralship; Manny
best stamina; Manny
best fundamentals; Manny
fastest hands. Manny

Saves D4 some time

rowley wrote:Best jab; Manny
best right cross; Manny
best hook; Manny
best uppercut; Manny
best chin; Manny
best footwork; Manny
best ring genralship; Manny
best stamina; Manny
best fundamentals; Manny
fastest hands. Manny

Saves D4 some time

jeff, if sam had included ' ducking ' as a defensive skill you could have nominated Floyd.

D4 would then think that Christmas had come early.

RJJ probably the fastest.
Best chin, maybe someone like Vitali?
Stamina - Margarito, Pacquiao, Calzaghe, Chavez must have good shouts.
Fundamentals - Maybe Calderon?

Find this really hard.

Best jab; Lewis
best right cross; N/A
best hook; Mosley
best uppercut; Lewis
best chin; Eubank
best footwork; Pacquiao
best ring genralship; Mayweather
best stamina; Margarito
best fundamentals; Calderon
fastest hands. Meldrick Taylor

Best jab; Lewis
best right cross; GMan
best hook; ODLHs left
best uppercut; Tyson
best chin; Vitali
best footwork; RJJ
best ring genralship; Hatton
best stamina; Chavez
best fundamentals; Surely they're all pretty solid at the basics?!
fastest hands. Judah

Roy Jones' footwork was awful coxy. Crossed his feet, lunged in, made all sorts of basic errors. His speed and atheticism/opposition allowed him to get away with it.

Scottrf

Unorthodox, didn't exactly get tagged much did he when in his "pomp". Just because he didn't look pretty it didn't make him any less effective. You can't have "awful" foot movement and evade punches the way he did, your balance is depicted where your feet are planted - like any sodding sport ffs.

He used reflexes to avoid punches not footwork. Just because noone was able to take advantage doesn't mean he was good at it. Without his speed of hand and reactions I don't think you'd be complimenting his footwork.

Scott

If his feet were all over the show his balance would've been off, it's a fundamental base of how to avoid punches especially with the amount of movement his upper body utilised.. It all comes from your base, it's not rocket science.

And moving on because i really can't be bothered with another RJJ debate, athleticism and balance comes from feet - end of.

Can you not debate without being patronising?

No need for 'it's not rocket science', 'end of' etc if you don't agree.

Ask any sportsman where their base for balance of upper body movement comes from. They won't say hips.

This where your wrong Coxy, Locche had incredible reflexes and balance but had zero foot movement

Best jab
___________

Cant believe how dumb some of you guys are, surely you'd all know by now that Holy's triple jab is a shoo in.

imperial

Were his feet in the right place though? In terms of balance?

Sorry guys, but if you stand with your feet together and try and sway around what happens? Versus having your feet and weight all perfectly balanced on your FEET and then try it - what happens?

Foot movement doesn't have to aesthetically like watching Ali, a matter of inches can prove the difference between having the right balance to avoid a punch by utilising an upper body sway or getting nailed.

coxy0001 wrote:Ask any sportsman where their base for balance of upper body movement comes from. They won't say hips.

Whitaker would plant his feet and move his upper body loads to avoid punches. With a strong core your feet don't always have to be in the best position.

best ring genralship; Hatton
---------------
Matthew, Coxy?

Fairly controversial pick and I'm not sure that Hatton ever truly demonstrated great ring generalship at all. Even against someone as limited as Macgee he struggled to impose his will and against Collazo he was forced out of his fight. As for his performances against Floyd and Manny, any sense of an understanding of ring generalship went completely out of the window.

I'd be more inclined to go for someone like Floyd or Hopkins.

Where was the weight being based on then Scott? His knees which were hovering above the ring mat?

Everything in terms of balance comes from your feet. Brake a toe and a 2 year old kid could shove you over.

Best jab; Lewis, bowe
best right cross; Morales,
best hook; Tyson
best uppercut; Lewis
best chin; vitali, eubank, oscar,
best footwork; mayweather
best ring genralship; mayweather
best stamina; pacquiao
best fundamentals; Barrera, Marquez, 
fastest hands: jones jr, pacquiao

That's just a few off the top of my head.

superfly

I was thinking in more the "bully" mould, interpreted the question about holding ring position etc. Naturally he'd bully and force himself on most opponents, didn't say he managed to avoid getting nailed in the process! Was a good example of a brawler forcing himself on most fighters though, and lets not forget Collazo was massive for the weight.

I just interpreted it as bossing the centre of the ring, cutting corners off etc.

Morning Super

Lovely to see you take the trip across to 606v2, have you embraced fatherhood yet??

Jimmy Stuart wrote:Morning Super

Lovely to see you take the trip across to 606v2, have you embraced fatherhood yet??

You beat me to it, Jimmy.

Great to see you here, superfly. Hope all's well.

coxy0001 wrote:Everything in terms of balance comes from your feet. Brake a toe and a 2 year old kid could shove you over.

No, feet are only the start of your balance, it comes from your core as well. Roy wasn't always balanced anyway. Cross your feet and a weak punch can put you over. Crossing your feet is what he did.

I'd agree Hopkins or Mayweather above Hatton for ring generalship. Pressing the fight isn't ring generalship, as Floyd showed against Oscar. It's more about dictating the pace of the fight, putting yourself in situations where you are effective and your opponent isn't, minimising their success.

I see your point, coxy. Hatton, at his best, had a knack for imposing his will on an opponent. I suspect that was more to with his need to fight in a particular way though and less to do with his adaptabilty ang ring generalship.

Jimmy/Windy - thanks for the welcome. Have been a member for some time but it's all been a bit hectic lately. Still got a few months until the birth of junior flyweight but mrs superfly's got me attending classes and reading books already.

Will be making an effort to get on here more though.

Best jab; Lewis
best right cross; Tyson
best hook; De La Hoya
best uppercut; Lewis
best chin; Vitali, Holyfield
best footwork; Mayweather
best ring generalship; Hopkins
best stamina; Pacquiao
best fundamentals; Calderon
fastest hands; Jones

superflyweight wrote:I see your point, coxy. Hatton, at his best, had a knack for imposing his will on an opponent. I suspect that was more to with his need to fight in a particular way though and less to do with his adaptabilty ang ring generalship.

Jimmy/Windy - thanks for the welcome. Have been a member for some time but it's all been a bit hectic lately. Still got a few months until the birth of junior flyweight but mrs superfly's got me attending classes and reading books already.

Will be making an effort to get on here more though.

Ha good to hear Super !

Make the most of it mate, because you'll be bloody knackered and penniless for the next 30 years.

All worth it though.

Superflyweight: Still got a few months until the birth of junior flyweight but mrs superfly's got me attending classes and reading books already.
-----
Super, me and Mrs Sugar Boy had our first Sweetie Jr back in November, he's 4 months now and thriving. It's a truly amazing thing, you're a lucky guy - treasure every moment mate. Good luck to you & mrs superfly.

Best jab; Wlad or Lewis
best right cross; Gman
best hook; Tyson
best uppercut; Lewis
best chin; Margarito
best footwork; Mayweather
best ring genralship; Mayweather
best stamina; Pac man
best fundamentals; Calderon
fastest hands. Taylor

I like your a list, stick and move.

But Tyson was past his best by the 1990s and onwards. I believe De La Hoya and Trinidad's left hooks were both more effective/lethal in the modern era.

Agreed sam

Although for me i think you're hard pressed to beat DLHs left hook. Still remember the shot he landed on Quartey and Lampley going bonkers about "finding" the left hook from knowhere.

Tito's, although great, doesn't quite cut it against DLHs for me personally.

Thanks samevans1

I see your point about Tyson, but I think Tysons hooks even in the mid 90s were still cable of destroying opponests which is why I picked him above Tito and De La Hoya

DLH's was a fantastic punch.

Particularly at Lightweight/Light-Welterweight; where he was an absolute beast. I still remember some of the shots he landed on Ruelas, Hernandez, Leija et al and shudder!

I think you are right about Tyson having a devestating left hook mate; but the caliber of opponent DLH and Trinidad were toasting with there's at the time was better.

Best jab; Harold Shipman
best right cross; David Beckham
best hook; Abu Hamza
best uppercut; Sinead O'Conner
best chin; David Coulthard
best footwork; Heather Mills' carpenter
best ring generalship; Purple Aki
best stamina; Lindsay Dawn Mckenzie in 'Passenger 69'
best fundamentals; Kelly Brook
fastest hands. Judah

I beg to differ, Shawn Michaels; Bo Selecta Craig David has a far better chin than david Coulthard.

worst chin? Gail Platt?

Deidrie Rachid? Or is that her neck more than her chin?

Mo Slater?

samevans1 wrote:I think you are right about Tyson having a devestating left hook mate; but the caliber of opponent DLH and Trinidad were toasting with there's at the time was better.

Oscar and Tito definatly fought the better guys but I think Tyson also had an excellant right hook which De La Hoya and Tito didn't have to the same level

I would certainly rate Tyson as probably having the best hook of the 80s; I just don't think his opposition/success level warrants being included as the best of the last 20 years.

Why does opposition matter? Surely what matters is if you think his punching had faded?

Scottrf

Can you give me some top level opponents that Tyson sparked/staggered with the left in the 90s? I don't mean to argue, but was his hook 'that' good in the 90s, which is the basis of this article?

Compared to DLH who pretty much flattened most of his KO opponents with his left etc... For me there's no comparison if you stick to the last 20 years, as the article suggests.

Michaels, Sean wrote:worst chin? Gail Platt?

Also, worst cleavage. That picture in the Sun still gives me nightmares.

If he had a great hook in the 80's, then unless you think his punch faded he probably still had it, regardless of what he opposition was.

Can you give me some examples of him knocking around top level opposition then please Scott

Unless you want to include Foreman in the list because he knocked out the chinless wonder Moorer?

Did I say he had the best hook?

Best jab; Marco Antonio Barerra
best right cross; Julian Jackson
best hook; Felix Trinidad
best uppercut; Ricardo Lopez
best chin; Wayne McCullough
best footwork; Manny Pacquiao
best ring genralship; Floyd Mayweather/Bernard Hopkins
best stamina; Joe Calzaghe
best fundamentals; Juan Manuel Marquez
fastest hands: Manny Pacquiao

Cheers

Rodders

Good list Rodders.

Pretty much all great shouts in my opinion; Barrera is a bit of a different one for jab though!

samevans1 wrote:Good list Rodders.

Pretty much all great shouts in my opinion; Barrera is a bit of a different one for jab though!

Thanks Sam, nice article mate.

It was a difficult one jab, I was originally going to say Bowe, but at the top level it was short lived, Lewis was another obvious choice but he pawed with it at times, then I was thinking of who controlled figthers with the jab and Barrera systematically broke down Naz, Tapia, Sanchez, Salud off the jab, once he tweaked his style his jab along with Oscar De La Hoya's was the best in the business at the time IMO.

Cheers

Rodders

I always though Ike Quartey had a fantastic jab; even De La Hoya had trouble with him.

samevans1 wrote:I always though Ike Quartey had a fantastic jab; even De La Hoya had trouble with him.

Yeah great shout Sam, I think if Ike believed in himself and lets his hands go a little more that night he could've pulled it off, how about a slightly controversial pick how about Sven Ottke's jab ? I know not everyone's cup of tea, but he churned out some results and had decent boxing ability whatever anyone says.

Cheers

Rodders