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Fantasy Fight: Lennox Lewis Vs. George Foreman

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Fantasy Fight: Lennox Lewis Vs. George Foreman Empty Fantasy Fight: Lennox Lewis Vs. George Foreman

Post by AlexHuckerby Thu 17 Nov - 10:27

Interesting fight for me this and difficult to really pick a clear winner. Both are a bit of a nightmare in truth in slightly different ways and I find it very difficult to honestly pick a clear winner. The reason for this is that a lot of people seem to think that these two match up better than most in terms of the best heavyweights in match ups right or wrongly. However how do we think these two would go?

Lewis was very cautious against the biggest punchers in his career and was usually on his best so I honestly couldn't see a Rahman coming where he slips in concentration. Whereas Big George is just that, a big huge monster coming at you however Lewis isn't a small guy and actually has a couple of dimensions on him in terms of height and reach and perhaps this could be a factor in the fight.

For me I would go with a Lewis UD but could see a KO at any time for Foreman.

How do you see this panning out?

*Prime for Prime of course.

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Post by Steffan Thu 17 Nov - 10:31

Foreman before the Ali loss wins this for me. He hits that suspect chin for KO victory

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Post by ShahenshahG Thu 17 Nov - 11:03

Young Foreman kills Lewis - Who can only win by punch perfect display. One mistake and he gets mullered. Foreman cuts off his body with those wild whacks and Lewis gasses and gets TKO aroung 6 rounds - any longer then lewis asserts his Jab and right cross. Can't see it happening. 70-30 Foreman

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Post by manos de piedra Thu 17 Nov - 11:22

I think Foreman knocks him out if they are both at peak. Lewis liked time and space to box, when he didnt get it I think he was vunerable. Mercer, Holyfield and Klitschko all gave him problems by carrying the fight to him. I think Foreman is more of a bulldozer than those guys and combine that with Lewis sometimes taking a while to ease into a fight means i would start George as favourite.

There is a tendancy sometimes to use Tua as an example of how Lewis might outbox Foreman from distance safetly but personally I think its a weak comparison as Foreman is far more advanced than Tua.

I would say Lewis may have the better fundementals and technique but I think Foreman is a bad match for him overall.

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Post by mikeymax71 Thu 17 Nov - 18:41

Foreman was strong and a destructive puncher but only in the early rounds and as long as you stood there in front of him. Technique wise he way behind Lewis on that front and I can not see Lennox standing there in front of him to be blasted like that. Also I think people forget how big a puncher Lewis is and for me he will the one who will be getting off first with his punches. Throughout his career Lewis has performed best against really threatening opposistion but also big up right fighter which George definitely fits in to both categories.

I see Lennox establsihing his jab in the first few rounds and keeping away from wild bombs coming from Foreman and by the 3-4 rounds landing regularly his right hand which will start slowing George down.

I see a tiring Foreman being stopped in 7-8 rounds.

For me George's legacy prior to Ali has been based too much on what he did to the late 'Smokin' Joe who was so much smaller than George, who throughout his whole career has struglled with fighters who have good fundamental skills and in Lewis he would face that but also someone who match him for size and considerable power of his own.

No doubt I expect a lot will disagree with me but this my opinion.

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Post by No1Jonesy Thu 17 Nov - 19:35

As formiddable a force as Foreman was he would lose this fight and lose it bad. I would see a complete shut out by Lewis to a late TKO... Foreman size and power would be nullified by Lewis's size and reach and he would be eating Lewi's jab and over hand rights / uppercuts all night

To say Lewis would tire - a peak Foreman was not tested into the later rounds until he met up with Ali and well it wasn't Ali that tired - and Lewis had that 12 round experience which included remaining strong throughout.

Steffan there was nothing suspect about his chin - he took some almighty shots and took them well - only once was he well & truly KO'd but when you caught by a punch with around 19 stone or whatever Rahman was bang on the chin - well its night night for anyone! With McCall he rose and beat the count but the ref waived it off

Until the Ali loss made George think about other tactis then just going in there and swinging to knock people out then he would not have had the ability to handle someone like Lennox in his prime because he just simply would not have had the experience but then again even after the Ali loss he wouldn't win but he'd be a bit more of a challenge although I wouldnt class that stage of his carrer as his prime fights.....

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Post by manos de piedra Thu 17 Nov - 19:59

Foreman only really tired because he punched himself out after wailing on opponents like Ali or Chuvalo who were abe to withstand enormous punishment. I dont think he tires out against Lewis unless Lewis manages to make him swing and miss or absorb a heck of alot of punishment which I dont think happens. If he does indeed manage to establish a jab that Foreman cant get past then I dont think Foreman tires out from trying to simply walk Lewis down.

Theres too many times where Lewis either got caught early or failed to establish significant superiority over lesser fighters that pressured him to make me think he wins this. Mercer, Bruno, Holyfield, Klitschko, McCall, Rahman - theres 5 fights where I think Lewis struggled. Granted he came through Klitschko, Mercer and Bruno but I feel if that had of been a peak Foreman walking him down then he doesnt survive. The Rahman and McCall fights show he could be caught cold early and taken out. Again something of a Foreman specialty.

Lewis had a good jab, but Ive thought its been somewhat overrated over the years. Good enough to dominate lesser fighters at times like Tua but he struggled to establish it in many fights also and I think much of its origins come from the near punch perfect performance over Tua which while impessive does not really translate into consistently dominating behind it. Bruno, Mercer, Klitschko and Holyfield for example all found ways past it quite regularly. And a bulldozer like Foreman is certainly a bigger handful and far more dangerous.

Lewis strength for me was his ability to mix his jab with good combination punching and variety - especially by heavyweight standards. In pure jab terms I dont think his jab was as dominating as Holmes or Wlad, but he had much better all around punching and wasnt as reliant on the jab as the other two. So when his jab didnt work like against Bruno he could rely on uppercuts, overhands and combinations.

I actually think if he adopts a Tua like gameplan in which he tries to establish the jab and box behind it almost exclusively - its a surefire way to lose against Foreman who I think sooner or later batters down the door. If Lewis does win I think he needs to to be more agressive and use his variety. Mix up the jab with big overhands from distance, uppercuts up close etc and refuse to be bullied by Foreman. Box from the back foot by all means, but do it aggressively like we saw Marquez do against Pacquiao.

Its not a fight I see going the distance because Im convinced trying to outbox Foreman to a D i a safety first approach is the wrong thing to do. I think you need to use his aggession against him. Ali did it in his own way, Lewis would have to do it in another style and try to take Foreman out as hes coming in rather than soak up punishement and rope a dope. I think he has the size and power to take Foreman out early himself if Foreman is too careless walking him down.

But ultimately I give Foreman the advantage because theres just too many fights where Lewis was made too uncomfortable by people bringing the fight to him and getting up close and personal. Lewis liked to box at a set tempo from distance and Foreman is completely the opposite. I see it being over inside 5 as Foreman gets to Lewis as takes him out. I certainly cant envisage a scenario mentioned above where Lewis wins this easily. Hes capable of winning of course, but I have him underdog and certainly cant see him winning easily.

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Post by Colonial Lion Thu 17 Nov - 20:21

manos de piedra wrote:Foreman only really tired because he punched himself out after wailing on opponents like Ali or Chuvalo who were abe to withstand enormous punishment. I dont think he tires out against Lewis unless Lewis manages to make him swing and miss or absorb a heck of alot of punishment which I dont think happens. If he does indeed manage to establish a jab that Foreman cant get past then I dont think Foreman tires out from trying to simply walk Lewis down.

Theres too many times where Lewis either got caught early or failed to establish significant superiority over lesser fighters that pressured him to make me think he wins this. Mercer, Bruno, Holyfield, Klitschko, McCall, Rahman - theres 5 fights where I think Lewis struggled. Granted he came through Klitschko, Mercer and Bruno but I feel if that had of been a peak Foreman walking him down then he doesnt survive. The Rahman and McCall fights show he could be caught cold early and taken out. Again something of a Foreman specialty.

Lewis had a good jab, but Ive thought its been somewhat overrated over the years. Good enough to dominate lesser fighters at times like Tua but he struggled to establish it in many fights also and I think much of its origins come from the near punch perfect performance over Tua which while impessive does not really translate into consistently dominating behind it. Bruno, Mercer, Klitschko and Holyfield for example all found ways past it quite regularly. And a bulldozer like Foreman is certainly a bigger handful and far more dangerous.

Lewis strength for me was his ability to mix his jab with good combination punching and variety - especially by heavyweight standards. In pure jab terms I dont think his jab was as dominating as Holmes or Wlad, but he had much better all around punching and wasnt as reliant on the jab as the other two. So when his jab didnt work like against Bruno he could rely on uppercuts, overhands and combinations.

I actually think if he adopts a Tua like gameplan in which he tries to establish the jab and box behind it almost exclusively - its a surefire way to lose against Foreman who I think sooner or later batters down the door. If Lewis does win I think he needs to to be more agressive and use his variety. Mix up the jab with big overhands from distance, uppercuts up close etc and refuse to be bullied by Foreman. Box from the back foot by all means, but do it aggressively like we saw Marquez do against Pacquiao.

Its not a fight I see going the distance because Im convinced trying to outbox Foreman to a D i a safety first approach is the wrong thing to do. I think you need to use his aggession against him. Ali did it in his own way, Lewis would have to do it in another style and try to take Foreman out as hes coming in rather than soak up punishement and rope a dope. I think he has the size and power to take Foreman out early himself if Foreman is too careless walking him down.

But ultimately I give Foreman the advantage because theres just too many fights where Lewis was made too uncomfortable by people bringing the fight to him and getting up close and personal. Lewis liked to box at a set tempo from distance and Foreman is completely the opposite. I see it being over inside 5 as Foreman gets to Lewis as takes him out. I certainly cant envisage a scenario mentioned above where Lewis wins this easily. Hes capable of winning of course, but I have him underdog and certainly cant see him winning easily.

Excellent analysis of a hypothetical clash between the two there, I would largely agree with that. I would have to disagree on the Wladimir Klitschko part mind, but in terms of how the fight between Lewis and Foreman would pan out and their respective strengths and weaknesses I think you are spot on. Foreman a decent favourite for me but Lewis retaining the potential to upset the apple cart if he can catch Foreman coming in. Totally agree that a Tua game plan is reduntant in this and it would be folly to try and rely on simple outjabbing a wrecking machine like the 1970s Foreman.

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Post by Fists of Fury Thu 17 Nov - 20:35

Good to see you back posting, Colonial.

Cracking analysis, manos, and I agree with the majority of what you are saying. It'd certainly be a nail biter, and I make Foreman a 55/45 favourite, so maybe a tad closer than you have it yourself.

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Post by HumanWindmill Thu 17 Nov - 20:55

manos' excellent analysis has rendered anything I would say superfluous.

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Post by Mr Bounce Thu 17 Nov - 21:01

Foreman himself said Lewis would have beaten him. That said, I reckon it would be close unless Foreman landed a massive punch, which he often did.

However, a lot of people are not giving Leis credit for his chin - he has been hit by many shots that would poleaxe lesser fighters - he took some thunderous shots from Mercer, Tua, Klitschko and Holyfield and hardly blinked. The 2 shots that felled him were perfectly timed so no shame there. Carelessness, not chinny-ness in my opinion. If it';s at "Prime" I say Lewis has a better than average chance.

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Post by Colonial Lion Thu 17 Nov - 21:51

Fists of Fury wrote:Good to see you back posting, Colonial.

Cracking analysis, manos, and I agree with the majority of what you are saying. It'd certainly be a nail biter, and I make Foreman a 55/45 favourite, so maybe a tad closer than you have it yourself.

Many thanks Fists, completely agree this would a great fight. I would probably see Big George as maybe a 1/3 favourite in this so Lewis a little more of an underdog than yourself.

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Post by Sugar Boy Sweetie Thu 17 Nov - 22:03

Not much to add to the analysis, worth mentioning that George himself has said Lewis was the best HW ever and that he wouldn't beat him.
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Post by manos de piedra Thu 17 Nov - 22:08

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:Not much to add to the analysis, worth mentioning that George himself has said Lewis was the best HW ever and that he wouldn't beat him.

He also said Vitali would beat him and was as good or better as any past champion in history. Im not sure hes the most credible guy to take at face value although it does come across as humble.

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Post by ShahenshahG Thu 17 Nov - 22:14

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:Not much to add to the analysis, worth mentioning that George himself has said Lewis was the best HW ever and that he woule sort of dn't beat him.

Nice george gets battered

George of Joe annihilating fame is the one Manos is talking about.

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Post by Sugar Boy Sweetie Thu 17 Nov - 22:31

George was dangerous early, Lennox got caught cold twice in his career so obviously there's a factor that favours George. All very well annihilating a much smaller guy like Frazier, but Lewis was 6'5" with the 3rd longest reach in boxing history (I think!). Different kettle of fish. Who's the physically stronger man? It's close, and although George was a huge puncher Lennox wasn't far behind - his power could be devastating and is often overlooked. If George can't blow him away in four rounds does he have a plan B? Because Lewis will start adding power punches to his boxing and could start having George in trouble. I'd go with George as favourite I think, but not sure it's as cut & dry as some suggest.
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Post by huw Thu 17 Nov - 22:36

I would actually say Lennox has the tools to beat George.

Lennox's footwork although good would suddenly make him look like a dancer against George.

George was one dimensional (still a great) and I just think Lennox would think too much for him.

I would expect him to be able to throw punches on George's way in and move away just as George starts swinging.

If he could survice the first three rounds I see it being comfortable.

I would say 65/35 in favour of Lewis.

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Post by manos de piedra Thu 17 Nov - 22:42

I understand the reasons given for a Lewis win but really dont get how people think it would ever be easy or comfortable at any stage. A peak Foreman would be needless to say better than anything Lewis faced. I just find it hard to look past a whole host of fights that Lewis was uncomfortable in from guys pressuring him and taking the fight to him who were for the most part lesser fighters that carried less threat. Im not sure if Mercer or Holyfield had the power George had that those would be wins for Lewis for instance.

I definately would not rule Lewis out, but would be shocked if he found it easy or comfortable.

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Post by No1Jonesy Thu 17 Nov - 22:45

manos de piedra wrote:Foreman only really tired because he punched himself out after wailing on opponents like Ali or Chuvalo who were abe to withstand enormous punishment. I dont think he tires out against Lewis unless Lewis manages to make him swing and miss or absorb a heck of alot of punishment which I dont think happens. If he does indeed manage to establish a jab that Foreman cant get past then I dont think Foreman tires out from trying to simply walk Lewis down.

Theres too many times where Lewis either got caught early or failed to establish significant superiority over lesser fighters that pressured him to make me think he wins this. Mercer, Bruno, Holyfield, Klitschko, McCall, Rahman - theres 5 fights where I think Lewis struggled. Granted he came through Klitschko, Mercer and Bruno but I feel if that had of been a peak Foreman walking him down then he doesnt survive. The Rahman and McCall fights show he could be caught cold early and taken out. Again something of a Foreman specialty.

Lewis had a good jab, but Ive thought its been somewhat overrated over the years. Good enough to dominate lesser fighters at times like Tua but he struggled to establish it in many fights also and I think much of its origins come from the near punch perfect performance over Tua which while impessive does not really translate into consistently dominating behind it. Bruno, Mercer, Klitschko and Holyfield for example all found ways past it quite regularly. And a bulldozer like Foreman is certainly a bigger handful and far more dangerous.

Lewis strength for me was his ability to mix his jab with good combination punching and variety - especially by heavyweight standards. In pure jab terms I dont think his jab was as dominating as Holmes or Wlad, but he had much better all around punching and wasnt as reliant on the jab as the other two. So when his jab didnt work like against Bruno he could rely on uppercuts, overhands and combinations.

I actually think if he adopts a Tua like gameplan in which he tries to establish the jab and box behind it almost exclusively - its a surefire way to lose against Foreman who I think sooner or later batters down the door. If Lewis does win I think he needs to to be more agressive and use his variety. Mix up the jab with big overhands from distance, uppercuts up close etc and refuse to be bullied by Foreman. Box from the back foot by all means, but do it aggressively like we saw Marquez do against Pacquiao.

Its not a fight I see going the distance because Im convinced trying to outbox Foreman to a D i a safety first approach is the wrong thing to do. I think you need to use his aggession against him. Ali did it in his own way, Lewis would have to do it in another style and try to take Foreman out as hes coming in rather than soak up punishement and rope a dope. I think he has the size and power to take Foreman out early himself if Foreman is too careless walking him down.

But ultimately I give Foreman the advantage because theres just too many fights where Lewis was made too uncomfortable by people bringing the fight to him and getting up close and personal. Lewis liked to box at a set tempo from distance and Foreman is completely the opposite. I see it being over inside 5 as Foreman gets to Lewis as takes him out. I certainly cant envisage a scenario mentioned above where Lewis wins this easily. Hes capable of winning of course, but I have him underdog and certainly cant see him winning easily.

To say he only tired because he punched himself ou is fair but it has as much credibility as saying Ali was the 1st person who was going to take him to the final bell because he could handle Foreman's come forward swinging approach. IMO Lewis also has the ability to see off Foreman's early attacks and shipping his own punishment which means again Foreman would be dragged into the latter part of the fight which he has fallen short on through fatigue. Lewis would bring more to tiring Foreman then just simply expecting it from Foreman trying to walk him down...

The examples you have mentioned of Lewis falling short on establishing his dominance early is a bit of a wild statement. Styles make fights and although he may have looked a bit ragged he figured them out and pulled through. The names of Holyfield and Klitschko - well Lewis was robbed against one and was an old man in the other so using them doesn't really justify your argument. The Rahman n McCall fights - well I believe McCall fight was stopped by the Ref too early although some people feel different and granted he was well and truly pole axed by Rahman but we're discussing a prime on form Lewis that is not complacement for the sake of this argument which is what he brought against the most dangerous fighters so on that basis the two fights you mentioned does not show this. When Lewis has that respect for the fighter ala Rahman 2 / Ruddock and Golota you see how the fights differ

I never once solely put the jab down as the reason Lewis would dominate George, but as you did acknowledge previously; Lewis does have combinations and uppercuts he does use to his full advantage. Foreman will bring a come forward style but Lewis may not have as strong a punch as him as I do believe Foreman is one of if not the hardest puncher in history but he aint far off and he is every bit as big and strong and more athletic.

I don't for one instant believe he would underestimate George nor put him in the same category as Tua and neither will Steward so I don't believe he would bring the same fight to the table. He may use similer tactics at points but Steward is smart enough to realise that a bigger effort would be needed and Lewis was ring smart enough to adopt and apply any strategy.

As long as Lewis does not get tagged within the 1st 5 rounds which I believe an in form and on top of his game Lewis can achieve whilst landing his own shots which again I believe he would then I believe from then on it will either be a late stoppage or UD due to the only fight going the distance where he didnt have it all his own way in Ali he just couldnt hack the later rounds

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Post by Fists of Fury Thu 17 Nov - 22:47

Anyone suggesting it would be easy or comfortable for either fighter is talking right out of their harris. Hypothetical matchups are often done so because they are between two truly elite fighters from differing eras...they're meant to be very difficult to call.

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Post by manos de piedra Thu 17 Nov - 23:03

No1Jonesy wrote:
manos de piedra wrote:Foreman only really tired because he punched himself out after wailing on opponents like Ali or Chuvalo who were abe to withstand enormous punishment. I dont think he tires out against Lewis unless Lewis manages to make him swing and miss or absorb a heck of alot of punishment which I dont think happens. If he does indeed manage to establish a jab that Foreman cant get past then I dont think Foreman tires out from trying to simply walk Lewis down.

Theres too many times where Lewis either got caught early or failed to establish significant superiority over lesser fighters that pressured him to make me think he wins this. Mercer, Bruno, Holyfield, Klitschko, McCall, Rahman - theres 5 fights where I think Lewis struggled. Granted he came through Klitschko, Mercer and Bruno but I feel if that had of been a peak Foreman walking him down then he doesnt survive. The Rahman and McCall fights show he could be caught cold early and taken out. Again something of a Foreman specialty.

Lewis had a good jab, but Ive thought its been somewhat overrated over the years. Good enough to dominate lesser fighters at times like Tua but he struggled to establish it in many fights also and I think much of its origins come from the near punch perfect performance over Tua which while impessive does not really translate into consistently dominating behind it. Bruno, Mercer, Klitschko and Holyfield for example all found ways past it quite regularly. And a bulldozer like Foreman is certainly a bigger handful and far more dangerous.

Lewis strength for me was his ability to mix his jab with good combination punching and variety - especially by heavyweight standards. In pure jab terms I dont think his jab was as dominating as Holmes or Wlad, but he had much better all around punching and wasnt as reliant on the jab as the other two. So when his jab didnt work like against Bruno he could rely on uppercuts, overhands and combinations.

I actually think if he adopts a Tua like gameplan in which he tries to establish the jab and box behind it almost exclusively - its a surefire way to lose against Foreman who I think sooner or later batters down the door. If Lewis does win I think he needs to to be more agressive and use his variety. Mix up the jab with big overhands from distance, uppercuts up close etc and refuse to be bullied by Foreman. Box from the back foot by all means, but do it aggressively like we saw Marquez do against Pacquiao.

Its not a fight I see going the distance because Im convinced trying to outbox Foreman to a D i a safety first approach is the wrong thing to do. I think you need to use his aggession against him. Ali did it in his own way, Lewis would have to do it in another style and try to take Foreman out as hes coming in rather than soak up punishement and rope a dope. I think he has the size and power to take Foreman out early himself if Foreman is too careless walking him down.

But ultimately I give Foreman the advantage because theres just too many fights where Lewis was made too uncomfortable by people bringing the fight to him and getting up close and personal. Lewis liked to box at a set tempo from distance and Foreman is completely the opposite. I see it being over inside 5 as Foreman gets to Lewis as takes him out. I certainly cant envisage a scenario mentioned above where Lewis wins this easily. Hes capable of winning of course, but I have him underdog and certainly cant see him winning easily.

To say he only tired because he punched himself ou is fair but it has as much credibility as saying Ali was the 1st person who was going to take him to the final bell because he could handle Foreman's come forward swinging approach. IMO Lewis also has the ability to see off Foreman's early attacks and shipping his own punishment which means again Foreman would be dragged into the latter part of the fight which he has fallen short on through fatigue. Lewis would bring more to tiring Foreman then just simply expecting it from Foreman trying to walk him down...

The examples you have mentioned of Lewis falling short on establishing his dominance early is a bit of a wild statement. Styles make fights and although he may have looked a bit ragged he figured them out and pulled through. The names of Holyfield and Klitschko - well Lewis was robbed against one and was an old man in the other so using them doesn't really justify your argument. The Rahman n McCall fights - well I believe McCall fight was stopped by the Ref too early although some people feel different and granted he was well and truly pole axed by Rahman but we're discussing a prime on form Lewis that is not complacement for the sake of this argument which is what he brought against the most dangerous fighters so on that basis the two fights you mentioned does not show this. When Lewis has that respect for the fighter ala Rahman 2 / Ruddock and Golota you see how the fights differ

I never once solely put the jab down as the reason Lewis would dominate George, but as you did acknowledge previously; Lewis does have combinations and uppercuts he does use to his full advantage. Foreman will bring a come forward style but Lewis may not have as strong a punch as him as I do believe Foreman is one of if not the hardest puncher in history but he aint far off and he is every bit as big and strong and more athletic.

I don't for one instant believe he would underestimate George nor put him in the same category as Tua and neither will Steward so I don't believe he would bring the same fight to the table. He may use similer tactics at points but Steward is smart enough to realise that a bigger effort would be needed and Lewis was ring smart enough to adopt and apply any strategy.

As long as Lewis does not get tagged within the 1st 5 rounds which I believe an in form and on top of his game Lewis can achieve whilst landing his own shots which again I believe he would then I believe from then on it will either be a late stoppage or UD due to the only fight going the distance where he didnt have it all his own way in Ali he just couldnt hack the later rounds

In fairnness though thats a pretty one sided analysis of Lewis where your giving Lewis the benefit of the doubt in almost every regard.

I could say that if Foreman fought Ali in a different climate, or with tighter ropes, or didnt punch himself out, or the ref didnt count too fast etc

Im not saying Lewis didnt beat Holyfield of Klitschko or Mercer or Bruno but they all made him struggle employing aggressive tactics which Foreman is sure to employ. And I think Foreman carries a higher threat level overall due to his power. Both men I would say are capable of taking the other out but I think Foreman is probably the more dangerous in that regard. Especially early on where Lewis has been vunerable before.

I think Lewis is capably of winning for similar reasons to yourself but think he needs to employ the right tactics and I make Foreman the favourite overall.

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Post by superflyweight Thu 17 Nov - 23:27

I think I categorically went for Lewis when we did the old heavyweight tournament on 606 and I can't for the life of me remember why I was so convinced (it may ahve been that archbritishchris was backing Lewis and I wanted to wind him up).

Saying that, I still lean towards Lewis in this one. Going peak for peak, the first incarnation of Foreman (pre-Ali) never had to deal with anyone with Lewis' physical attributes combined with boxing skills and despite his prodigious power, woudl have been going into the ring with a bigger man with more rounded skills and a thunderous right hand almost the equal of anything that Foreman could throw.

As manos mentioned above, Lewis was more than just a jab and his ability to throw hurtful combination punches whilst in close paired with his strength in the clinches would eventually wear George down and I see a late stoppage. Yes, Lewis could be a slow starter and he did get caught cold by Rahman and McCall, but George did tend to telegraph his punches and Lewis had the ability to see them coming.

Lewis starts as the slight favourite but I'm not ruling out a ko victory for Foreman. Can't imagine it ever going to the cards unless we're talking about 40+ Foreman in which case Lewis wins a wide UD.

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Post by kevchadders Thu 17 Nov - 23:31

Lewis's loses over Rahman and McCall was down to a lackadaisical approach, and in a mythical match up with Big George, he would take him very seriously. So the only version of Lewis he would be facing would be the focused version we seen against the likes of Tyson/Holy/MCCall/Ruddock/Grant etc.

One think I will say about Lewis is that he handled the big men very well indeed, especially the one who where considered a threat to him.

Personally I'm torn between who to pick, the version of George who Ali took on was a beast of a fighter, but he was still young in heavyweight terms and didn't have too much fight experience past 6 rounds. I assume the version of Lewis we go for is the one with Steward in his corner?

Some good analysis and I do agree with a lot of the views on how George catching up with him and stopping him at some point in the fight... but, maybe due to me growing up watching Lewis, there is something which just tells me that under Steward's guidance he would find a way to soak up the best George had to offer and win on points or via late KO.

Ahhhggggg cant decide.

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Post by huw Fri 18 Nov - 0:04

manos de piedra wrote:I understand the reasons given for a Lewis win but really dont get how people think it would ever be easy or comfortable at any stage. A peak Foreman would be needless to say better than anything Lewis faced. I just find it hard to look past a whole host of fights that Lewis was uncomfortable in from guys pressuring him and taking the fight to him who were for the most part lesser fighters that carried less threat. Im not sure if Mercer or Holyfield had the power George had that those would be wins for Lewis for instance.

I definately would not rule Lewis out, but would be shocked if he found it easy or comfortable.

I think I'm the guilty one with the 'comfortable' comment. I think Lewis would find it comfortable if he survived the first three rounds, that is when George is incredibly dangerous. I just don't see him being able to do anything different if the trying to smash Lewis wasn't working. Lennox was a thinking fighter and I feel he would have him worked out and pull clear with a late stoppage.

However, the first three rounds would be far from comfortable for Lewis.

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Post by manos de piedra Fri 18 Nov - 0:10

huw wrote:
manos de piedra wrote:I understand the reasons given for a Lewis win but really dont get how people think it would ever be easy or comfortable at any stage. A peak Foreman would be needless to say better than anything Lewis faced. I just find it hard to look past a whole host of fights that Lewis was uncomfortable in from guys pressuring him and taking the fight to him who were for the most part lesser fighters that carried less threat. Im not sure if Mercer or Holyfield had the power George had that those would be wins for Lewis for instance.

I definately would not rule Lewis out, but would be shocked if he found it easy or comfortable.

I think I'm the guilty one with the 'comfortable' comment. I think Lewis would find it comfortable if he survived the first three rounds, that is when George is incredibly dangerous. I just don't see him being able to do anything different if the trying to smash Lewis wasn't working. Lennox was a thinking fighter and I feel he would have him worked out and pull clear with a late stoppage.

However, the first three rounds would be far from comfortable for Lewis.

Id agree that Foreman was at his most dangerous early on but still dont think Lewis wold ever find it comfortable at any point unless Foreman gasses completely. I doubt this would happen though unless Lewis showed durability and a willingness to soak up punishment beyond what I would credit him for. Even with fat and old George Foreman you couldnt afford to take him lightly for a second as one mistake could be the end of you as Michael Moorer found out.

A relentless young George from the 70s would be a real handful in my view and Lewis would have to be close to punch perfect to avoid the blitz.

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Post by hogey Fri 18 Nov - 0:15

This is one fight where i could not pick a winner, but it would be a fight i would love to see.

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Post by Haito Fri 18 Nov - 0:29

This would all depend on Lewis's start for me. As Manos has pointed out Lewis could be a slow starter which for me would be extremely dangerous against a timebomb like big George. If Lewis isn't on top of his game from the opening bell then I think George would take full of advantage and stop Lewis by the 4th-5th.

If Lennox started well though and got behind his jab and didn't get complatent and frustrated George I think Foreman would start to get eratic and would make mistakes as the fight went into tthe later rounds as he tired which I think Lewis would punish.
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Post by ShahenshahG Fri 18 Nov - 0:32

welcome back mate

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Post by Haito Fri 18 Nov - 0:40

Cheers Shah. Good to see so many good familiar posters are here.
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Post by superflyweight Fri 18 Nov - 0:42

Welcome back, Haito.

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Post by ShahenshahG Fri 18 Nov - 0:46

Yeah - we got a decent amount on here - started picking up lately. look in the trash talk section - we were just talking about old school people and you turned up.

Begone! SATAN

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Post by Haito Fri 18 Nov - 1:09

cheers superfly. A nice coincidence then Shah, Yeah had a look around and there sems to be a fair few regulars I'm familiar with over here. Have popped on here a few times in the past but only sporadically. Hoping to post more regular now though.
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Post by Fists of Fury Fri 18 Nov - 2:25

Greetings, Haito.

All we need now is froch_carl and we have got the complete set Wink

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Post by Nico the gman Fri 18 Nov - 3:22

Big Lewis fan but Big Bad George was a wrecking machine and was capable of knocking any fighter out early on,non of Foreman's punches were feel out punches they were destructive bombs, never mind what he did to Frazier look at what he did to Norton.
Lewis could hit but Foreman was only ever stopped once, so his chin could never be questioned, no-one could knock him out when he was in his mid 40s, so in his prime its Big George by early KO.

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Post by Lance Fri 18 Nov - 4:41

Foreman used to tire, and he knew it, it wasnt just against Ali. part of the reason he fought so aggressively was because he knew if he couldnt get the guy out of there, he was very vulnerable in the later rounds. he got massive adrenaline rushes going into the ring, which gives you strength for a while, but there is nothing more tiring than when your adrenaline rush finishes. the reason he was able to make a successful comeback and fight until his mid forties, was the fact he no longer got the same excitment being in the ring, and could pace himself better. if he couldnt get lennox out of there, he would be tko late on. i was fortunate enough to have this conversation with him a couple of years back. great guy in person, he doesnt do himself justice when he commentates


Last edited by Lance on Fri 18 Nov - 6:25; edited 1 time in total

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Post by horizontalhero Fri 18 Nov - 5:40

I don't think that it's beyond the realms of possibility that Lewis could be the one to score an early ko in this match up- if Jimmy young can put George on his arse then so can Lewis. When at his best , and when he felt the opponent was dangerous -such as in ther Ruddock and Grant fights he got them out of there fast. George's punches were pretty wild and I see Lewis landing faster straighter shots through the middle as George walks forward. For me Lewis is the worst opponent for Foreman, the likes of Norton and Frazier where made for him- Frazier attacked in straght lines and Ken retreated in straight lines- suicide against a bigger, stronger slugger, but I don't think Lewis could be manhandled like that.

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Post by Jukebox Timebomb Fri 18 Nov - 6:00

Foreman is not going to like fighting guys bigger than he is. Lewis by wide UD.

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Post by hazharrison Fri 18 Nov - 9:32

Which Lewis are we talking about? The best version was 34 -- that's pretty old to be dealing with a young monster like Foreman.

The older, better schooled Lewis gets stopped late -- the young, wide open version early. Foreman proved against Ron Lyle he could triumph in a knock down, drag out affair. Lewis folded both times he was dropped hard.

Foreman would get to him at some point. He nearly killed Ali. He'd eat a lot of jabs in doing so but Foreman's chin was concrete. Foreman, Frazier et al were on a higher level than Lewis, Holyfield etc, also.

Lewis tends to be overrated on these boards. He only just about reached greatness -- and it took him forever to get there.

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Post by manos de piedra Fri 18 Nov - 9:36

Its pretty hard to pin down Lewis peak years but I would say around 1998-2000 was when he posted his best performances arguably and is when I consider him at his best.


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Post by rapidringsroad Fri 18 Nov - 13:37

It is a hard one to pick this one Alex. Foreman looked unbeatable early on in his career which I suppose was his Peak, Lewis on the other hand looked to me quite ordainary until Manny Steward got hold of him. But when you look at who beat Big George after Ali, Jimmy Young, Morrison Shannon Briggs and he refused Axel Shultz a rematch after their close bout, as well as losing to Holyfield ,both past their peak I'll admit but for me it's 55/45 to Lennox.

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Post by AlexHuckerby Fri 18 Nov - 14:01

As for this being comfortable at any stage for either man is ludicrous to me, even late on Lewis cannot switch off, everyone seen what happened to Moorer and that was against a 45 year old version! For me Lewis gets through a couple of scares and manages to box his way to victory but it would be very hard for him.

I don't read anything into Lewis being taken out early twice at all into this fight. On paper that sounds stupid I know, however I've got to be honest that wasn't the same Lennox, that was a Lennox prone to a lapse in concentration because he was beating his man so easy and they were "inferior" opponents. There's no chance Lewis ever has this mind set so being caught cold doesn't happen, but no doubt about it George had the ability to put the hurt into Lewis early middle or late.

In truth it's a fight I could see ending at any second because of both mens power, yes Foreman had only been stopped once and had a fantastic chin, but LEwis could knock anyone out, these guys are mahoosive Heavies, but I don't think the stoppage happens, Lewis survives and comes out with a hard fought decision.

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Post by HumanWindmill Fri 18 Nov - 20:25

Shouldn't be forgotten, though, that Lewis was all over the shop in the first round of the Briggs fight. No doubt that Lewis was a great heavyweight, but I don't believe we can simply sweep under the carpet the fact that he could be caught and could be stunned and hurt.

That would be fatal against Foreman.

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Post by manos de piedra Fri 18 Nov - 20:41

Im always a bit confused by the attitude that a fully focused Lewis doesnt ever seem to get taken out. Its like once Lewis makes up his mind that hes not going to get knocked out then theres zero chance of it happening. McCall, Rahman, Briggs, Klitschko all had him knocked out or in trouble early. He would most likely take Foreman with the utmost seriousness but Im sure Foreman would have his own say about whether Lewis gets taken out or not. I would maintain hes especially vunerable early and was often a slow starter.

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Post by Fists of Fury Fri 18 Nov - 21:04

I asked this question of George Foreman and Lennox Lewis via Twitter.

No response from Lennox as yet, but George unsurprisingly backed himself to lose.

@GeorgeForeman: @606v2boxing I was a sucker for right hands; Lewis threw them like Bob Gibson; I pick Lewis.

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Post by The Galveston Giant Fri 18 Nov - 21:07

Respect to Big George, too nice to say otherwise.
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Post by ShahenshahG Fri 18 Nov - 21:08

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c29-5PqJuG4

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Post by manos de piedra Fri 18 Nov - 21:10

Fists of Fury wrote:I asked this question of George Foreman and Lennox Lewis via Twitter.

No response from Lennox as yet, but George unsurprisingly backed himself to lose.

@GeorgeForeman: @606v2boxing I was a sucker for right hands; Lewis threw them like Bob Gibson; I pick Lewis.

Ask him how hed fare against a peak Ruiz.

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Post by ShahenshahG Fri 18 Nov - 21:13

manos de piedra wrote:
Fists of Fury wrote:I asked this question of George Foreman and Lennox Lewis via Twitter.

No response from Lennox as yet, but George unsurprisingly backed himself to lose.

@GeorgeForeman: @606v2boxing I was a sucker for right hands; Lewis threw them like Bob Gibson; I pick Lewis.

Ask him how hed fare against a peak Ruiz.

lol

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Fri 18 Nov - 21:19

HumanWindmill wrote:Shouldn't be forgotten, though, that Lewis was all over the shop in the first round of the Briggs fight. No doubt that Lewis was a great heavyweight, but I don't believe we can simply sweep under the carpet the fact that he could be caught and could be stunned and hurt.

That would be fatal against Foreman.

Disagree with this one, Windy. He looked ragged, but I don't think he was genuinely hurt, much the same as the Akinwande 'knockdown' didn't hurt him at all. I don't think Lewis respected Briggs and I remember the rumours of the time that Shannon had spent a fair bit of time training in the local nightclubs, even though it was his biggest ever fight. Lennox looked clumsy and un-coordinated that night but I don't think he was actually 'hurt' in the normal understanding of the word.

For what it's worth, I think Lewis would win a decision against Foreman, but I say that with no great confidence. I think he would be able to survive the first half of the fight by tying George up and leaning on him, as I think Lewis would be more bothered by a straighter puncher, and then establishing his own arsenal in the second half on a tiring Foreman.

Mind the windows Tino.
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Post by HumanWindmill Fri 18 Nov - 21:25

Fair enough, Tino.

I respect your take on things, and it is certainly up for interpretation as to how hurt Lewis actually was. I felt he looked a bit ragged after getting clocked, but maybe I need to watch it again.

What is certain, though, is that he was clocked, and that, had it been Foreman and not Briggs, he would have been a very lucky man to see the round out.

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