I've re-watched THE trilogy

no, not star wars episodes 1-3, they're still as bad as you remember.
ive watched all 3 fights again. boys (and girls) im sorry ive made another marquez/manny topic, but i had to put my 2 cents in. this is a forum for discussion after all.

1st.
marquez gave manny a boxing lesson. manny's 1st round won the fight for him - i scored it a 10-6 unlike the judge, in which case it would have been an official win for manny.

my score: 113-114 to manny.
last round close, could have been a 10-10, which would have been a DRAW for me. remember its all about points, not rounds, it doesnt matter that marquez boxed mannys ears off, manny put him down 3 times.

2nd.
a win for marquez.
think i scored it to marquez winning by a point, maybe 2. again the knockdown made it closer than it should be.
if any fight was a robbery it was this, however such a 'close' fight doesnt deserve a robbery title.

3rd fight:
manny: 10 9 9 10 9 10 9 9 9 10 10 10 114
marquez: 9 10 10 9 10 9 10 10 10 9 9 10 115 (or 114 as i cant make my mind up about rd 12 so i scored it even).

on first watch i scored it a draw with the chance of leaning towards manny. after listening to your outrage, and the outrage of many other boxing experts, former boxers, current boxers i had to watch again and see if i was just hungover while watching it for the first time.

notes on 3rd fight:
1st - very close. i scored it for manny, marquez was warming up and manny seemed to earn the round.
3rd. manny finished strong but marquez landed the better shots. judges could easily give it to manny.
4th. reverse of the 3rd, marquez ends strong but it think manny did enough.
5. wow, big round for marquez. he was picking off manny for fun.
6. close round, i gave it to manny.
7. marquez all day for me.
8.again, close and judges could have gone the other way, i gave it to marquez but manny followed a similar trend by finishing strong and possibly catching the judges eye.
9. marquez lands some great shots, again manny finishes strong. marquez round. but very close.
10. marquez was winning, but manny AGAIN pipped it.
11. close once more....had manny winning. however HBO had it for marquez. its the only round they gave to marquez that i didnt have.
12. cant pick a winner. gave it 10-10. if it was manny's round which i have no problem with, its a even for me this round.

here's a link to the full 3rd fight - hbo version.
http://sosoboxing.com/boxing-video-watch-online/manny-pacquiao-vs-juan-manuel-marquez-iii/

closing thoughts: no robbery for any fight but my heart goes out to marquez. he should be remembered as being manny's match and one of the best fighters of my lifetime. what a boxer the man is - as a result this makes manny very good also for handling him. without his huge power, there wouldnt have been any need for a 2nd fight, never mind 3rd.

i have no issues with you lot saying in an idiot, i quite like a heated discussion, keeps things interesting. if we didnt all have an opinion, things would die around here.

Probably a fair assessment of the fights, Oasis.

like i said i dont think the last fight was a robbery but i scored it to marquey 115-113 but the judge that scored it with manny winning 8 rounds to 4 needs shooting.

He really does, Alex, how he arrived at those scores I'll never know.

A round either way, for me, depending on how you were looking to score rounds.

generally speaking i go for cleaner work but it depends on just how much clean work and how much the other guy works.

marquez beat manny twice, sturm beat macklin, hopkins beat calzaghe, thats how i saw them. if 3 professional judges cant agree, what chance have we got

Being fairly generous to Pacquiao I scored it 116-112 in Marquez's favour and having rewatched the fight stand by that score, other than work rate which wasn't really very effective he was bested in each and every criteria of scoring a fight. The first two were very close on the scorecards with the first seeing Marquez outbox Pacquiao very decisively but that first round made a huge difference with the second being almost impossible to split it.

Have it 2-0-1 to Marquez with the third fight in my opinion being one of the worst bits of judging i've seen in recent years along with Lara/Williams and Martinez/Cintron.

Lance wrote:marquez beat manny twice, sturm beat macklin, hopkins beat calzaghe, thats how i saw them. if 3 professional judges cant agree, what chance have we got

Sturm beat Macklin? I thought Macklin got shafted in that fight.

I'd agree Oasis. 3 for me a good close fight, probably to Marquez but I could see an argument for Manny. Anyway - Manny-JMM4 is around the corner...

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Being fairly generous to Pacquiao I scored it 116-112 in Marquez's favour and having rewatched the fight stand by that score, other than work rate which wasn't really very effective he was bested in each and every criteria of scoring a fight. The first two were very close on the scorecards with the first seeing Marquez outbox Pacquiao very decisively but that first round made a huge difference with the second being almost impossible to split it.

Have it 2-0-1 to Marquez with the third fight in my opinion being one of the worst bits of judging i've seen in recent years along with Lara/Williams and Martinez/Cintron.

I can't agree with that, Ghosty. I had Marquez by 3 rounds when I first watched it, but upon watching it a second time had him by 1 round, so it can't be classed in the same bracket as Lara/Williams, which was a total and utter robbery.

This article on Eastside mentions that, actually http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=29899&more=1

I've found that since the fight that people have watched the fight trying to give rounds to Pacquiao rather than judging it for what it was, the compubox stats that came out have further complicated things suggesting the fight was closer than it actually was.

The HBO commentary is ludicrously biased towards manny. If it's not Steward banging on endlessly about his speed, defensive abilities, footwork, power blah blah its lampley raving every time mannys throws a punch regardless of whether he's in range or not - some of marquez' best shots go uncommented on. And dont get me started on lederman, that guy has no idea how to score a fight - just looks for aggression and nothing more.

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:The HBO commentary is ludicrously biased towards manny. If it's not Steward banging on endlessly about his speed, defensive abilities, footwork, power blah blah its lampley raving every time mannys throws a punch regardless of whether he's in range or not - some of marquez' best shots go uncommented on. And dont get me started on lederman, that guy has no idea how to score a fight - just looks for aggression and nothing more.

Would that be Jim "Bang! Bang! Bang, bang, bang!" Lampley?

It's best to watch it with no commentary, given that Ricardo on Primetime was completely biased toward Marquez - these people really do sway your opinion on a fight!

[tquote="BALTIMORA"]

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:The HBO commentary is ludicrously biased towards manny. If it's not Steward banging on endlessly about his speed, defensive abilities, footwork, power blah blah its lampley raving every time mannys throws a punch regardless of whether he's in range or not - some of marquez' best shots go uncommented on. And dont get me started on lederman, that guy has no idea how to score a fight - just looks for aggression and nothing more.

Would that be Jim "Bang! Bang! Bang, bang, bang!" Lampley?[/quote]
that actually made me laugh out loud.

how i messed up the quote thing i have no idea

I wonder how much he's paid and what type of qualifications he needed to conjure up such a gem of a commentary.

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:The HBO commentary is ludicrously biased towards manny. If it's not Steward banging on endlessly about his speed, defensive abilities, footwork, power blah blah its lampley raving every time mannys throws a punch regardless of whether he's in range or not - some of marquez' best shots go uncommented on. And dont get me started on lederman, that guy has no idea how to score a fight - just looks for aggression and nothing more.

Lederman does what HBO tell him to do, HBO are making a fortune out of Pacquiao on PPV's. Marquez wins and HBO lose out on a lot of money and the fabled Mayweather fight.

HBO dont make much money hosting the fights they have a set amount on how much they can make from a PPV. In terms of profit from the PPV it is very little, I was listening to the CEO of HB0 talk about how PPV is hurting boxing.

Strongback wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:The HBO commentary is ludicrously biased towards manny. If it's not Steward banging on endlessly about his speed, defensive abilities, footwork, power blah blah its lampley raving every time mannys throws a punch regardless of whether he's in range or not - some of marquez' best shots go uncommented on. And dont get me started on lederman, that guy has no idea how to score a fight - just looks for aggression and nothing more.

Lederman does what HBO tell him to do, HBO are making a fortune out of Pacquiao on PPV's. Marquez wins and HBO lose out on a lot of money and the fabled Mayweather fight.

So why did he call for Sturm in the Sturm-DLH fight? That would have killed the Hopkins-DLH fight.

oxring wrote:

Strongback wrote:

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:The HBO commentary is ludicrously biased towards manny. If it's not Steward banging on endlessly about his speed, defensive abilities, footwork, power blah blah its lampley raving every time mannys throws a punch regardless of whether he's in range or not - some of marquez' best shots go uncommented on. And dont get me started on lederman, that guy has no idea how to score a fight - just looks for aggression and nothing more.

Lederman does what HBO tell him to do, HBO are making a fortune out of Pacquiao on PPV's. Marquez wins and HBO lose out on a lot of money and the fabled Mayweather fight.

So why did he call for Sturm in the Sturm-DLH fight? That would have killed the Hopkins-DLH fight.

too true. far too many conspiracy theories flying about.