Ulster v Aironi HC Rnd3 Friday 09 December 2011 KO 19.30pm

Ulster have included new signing Stefan Terblanche in their matchday squad ahead of Friday's Heineken Cup round 3 fixture against Aironi at Ravenhill (kick off 7.30pm).

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The South African fullback arrived in Belfast over the weekend and is in contention to play some part against the Italians. The 36 year old has been drafted in on a short term deal as cover for Jared Payne who has been ruled out for the remainder of the season.
Declan Fitzpatrick is again ruled out with a neck injury suffered in the Glasgow game two weeks ago. Ruan Pienaar came through his 20 minute cameo against Scarlets on Friday unscathed and is back in contention for a starting place.

Paddy McAllister gets a start at loosehead in place of Tom Court with Court on the bench.

The Ulstermen shared a pool with Aironi in last season’s tournament and picked up 10 points from the two games, scoring ten tries in the process.

Ulster Match Day Squad to face Aironi, Friday 9th December, Ravenhill (kick-off 7.30pm)
(15-9): A D'Arcy; A Trimble, D Cave, N Spence, C Gilroy; I Humphreys, R Pienaar;
(1-8): P McAllister, R Best, J Afoa, J Muller (capt), D Tuohy, S Ferris, C Henry, P Wannenburg;
Replacements (16-23): A Kyriacou, T Court, A Macklin, L Stevenson, R Diack, P Marshall, P Jackson, S Terblanche
This season, Ulster currently sit in third place after two rounds, two points behind Clermont Auvergne and four behind leaders Leicester. Friday’s opponents Aironi are yet to register a point in this year’s competition.

Rava wrote:
So will Pienaar replace Marshall? Will Terblanche start at 15? What are the chances of Jackson starting ahead of Humphreys? Is it possible McLaughlin might contemplate a Marshall/Pienaar 9/10?

Yes, Yes, 0% and No.

Can you remember our surprise when McLaughlin choose O'Connor against Bath away two years ago?

Just saying....

Why is Luke Marshall in there?

My team would be

Court
Best
Afoa
Tuohy
Muller
Ferris
Henry
Wannenburg
Marshall
Pienaar
Gilroy
Cave
Spence
Trimble
D'arcy

Bench of McAllister, Macklin, Stevenson, Faloon, Brady, Humphreys (although i would be delighted to drop him), Terblanche, Whitten

I should add i think we might get away with leaving whitten out and having jackson there but probably no point.

The only decisions to be made are:

Who is 7 - I think it will be Henry.
Which half back will Pienaer replace - I think it will be Marshall
Who will play Gilroy or Danielli - I think it will be Gilroy
Who will play 15 - it wil lbe Tereblanche

If I had to pick one where I was wrong it would be a surprise of Pienaer at 10.

No idea why Luke Marshall is listed - just sloppiness by the club poster I suspect - they have simply listed every fit squad member, forgetting he is not in the HC squad.

Can we get the 4 try bonus point here? I don't think we've managed a single bonus point this season in either competition is that right?

Whilst i dont share Rodders reluctance about the Terblanche signing i think we do need D'arcys strike running if we are to get 4 tries. I would like to see us get a couple of early scores then maybe bring on Terblanche with aironi tiring and ping the corners, put our pack in a position to disrupt and work from there.

Rodders we havent got a WBP yet no. I think Connacht and Glasgow were the only 3 try games for us too. Maybe aironi as well though

I reckon Pienaar will start at 9 with iHumph at 10 and i would love to see Whitten at 12 rather than spence, Whitten can play crash ball as per gameplan, but also has great hands and and offloading game, more than spence has right now.

Terblanche i'm pretty certain will start, and i would also like to see Callum Black get a run, he played very well for the Ravens (he wont though)

Rodders to go back to your point on the Scarlets thread.

It has nothing to do with faith it is an assessment of the quality required.
We know we are never going to have 34 World beaters so you try and formulate a squad that maximises your chances given you budget and your requirement to select nearly all IQ players.

Ideally for every position you want something like - a player good enough to be in HC winning team, a good cover and a promising youngster coming through. You are never going to quite get that but that is a goal to strive for.

The assessment has ben made of D'Arcy is that he fills the good cover slot for 15 but he is not good enough to be in a HC winning side. That is simple a playing assessment and one I agree with. This does not mean he is not considered a valuable member of the squad - he wouldn't have been given a contract if he wasn't.
Cover players should get plenty of game time over a full season given injuries, internationals and the resting of players.

I do agree that picking Danielli in front of him was plain stupid and a mistake.

I don't want to sound too anti-Terblanche. I think it was a smart bit of business and I believe he is a valuable addition in an area we lack depth and experience.

However I don't want to see him over used at the expense of developing our own players and right now I'm more excited by the players we already have than Stefan Terblanche.

So.. is Luke Marshall in the HEC squad or what?

I think there will be more than enough games to use both Terblanche and D'arcy. As i mentioned on the other thread i think we are more likely to see Marshall and Jackson get some gametime if they are flanked by pienaar and Terblanche which would be a good thing.

We really need a confident on form Humphreys!! He'll play ...and should.
I think Pienaar will get the nod, if nothing else, because he needs match time. (Granted though, Marshall has been a bright light in this inconsistent season so far. I guess he has learnt from Pienaar.)
Also after that experiment with Danielli at 15 which can't have helped D'arcy's confidence, I can't see him being dropped either, especially for a cover guy who has just arrived, albeit one with immense experience. Terblanche to make a late cameo from the bench.

I do still worry about 12 & 13. Maybe losing Wallace, Marshall & Payne was a killer for consistency so far this season because perhaps both Spence & Cave are / would be out of position at 12. They are great players so I do see Mcl dilemma...'well I have to play them both!'

I traveled a long way to make the Leicester game and I was of course thoroughly disappointed mostly because I thought the forwards got enough ball to win, we just seemed to have a lack of penetration in the backs and moving side to side.
Whether its confidence, poor execution of planned moves or even badly designed backs moves in training......who knows.
One things is sure, especially after watching Leinster destroy Cardiff....they make fewer handling errors....So maybe thats all it is for Ulster. Maybe one day it will all go right and we tonk someone by 40 and then move on!

I can't see a team looking much different to below..
Court/Best/Afoa
Tuohy/Muller
Ferris/Henry/Wannenburg
Pienaar/Humphries
Spence/Cave
Trimble/Gilroy/D'arcy

Bench e.g. PaddyMc, Macklin, Brady, Stevenson, Diack, Marshall, Whitten, Danielli/Terblanche

Standulstermen wrote:I think there will be more than enough games to use both Terblanche and D'arcy.

Yeah there should be but I suppse I'd like to see D'arcy get a run of games to see how he develops and then use Terblanche from the Bench to steady the ship. I know that won't happen but I think D'arcy deserves a fair crack at the 15 jersey to see if he can hold onto it. In my eyes he's the incompenent with Payne out and it should be his jersey to lose or Terblanches to wrest from him.

Standulstermen wrote:I think there will be more than enough games to use both Terblanche and D'arcy. As i mentioned on the other thread i think we are more likely to see Marshall and Jackson get some gametime if they are flanked by pienaar and Terblanche which would be a good thing.

Agreed. The best backline to play with Marshall/Jackson would probably include Pienaar, Cave, Trimble, Danielli and Terblanche. Then our HEC backline should be Marshall, Pienaar, Wallace, Spence, Gilroy, Trimble and D'Arcy/Terblanche. Both of those backlines have a good ratio of inexperience and experience.

Hi Guys,
Can you really see Humprhies being dropped??
Granted he hasn't had much form but I just don't see that happening.
He is still the best 10 we have....when he hits form.

Atm I think he is a liability in the Ulster team. Pienaar would probably be a much better option at 10.

RF09 wrote:Hi Guys,
Can you really see Humprhies being dropped??
Granted he hasn't had much form but I just don't see that happening.
He is still the best 10 we have....when he hits form.

No i dont think he will be dropped but i dont think he should have immunity from being dropped either which is what his continued selection is bordering on.

If D'arcy had played the number of poor games iHumph had i dare say most of the Ulster faithful wouldnt want him in the squad again. The double standards applied to some players annoys me but fortunately on here is usually a haven of sense (except when i get annoyed)

Ulster really need winning bonus points in the next two games though and humphries is the type of player youd want to have in that position. Granted hes not on form but he does make things happen. Hopefully with piennar there to steady the ship and kick the points the pressure will be off him and he can get back to playing some good stuff.

Standulstermen - Yeah, double standards you are probably right.
But its maybe more acceptable in his case because, lets be honest, we all know how good he CAN play...we have seen him win games for us before... just as an example his kicking display v Bath last year away.
Of course we don't want too many of those moves such as the juggled dummy against Connacht that ended up on the floor. That would have made me laugh if it was by someone not wearing an ulster shirt!

I still think if it all clicks we could give someone a hiding..

Did Humph play bad against clermont and leicester? Honestly cant really remember, but is it not kinda true that humph more than anyone seems to turn up when its vital.

Heres hoping.

Against Clermont not too bad but against Leicester missed 2 crucial kicks at the wrong time which ended up, at the very least costing us a bonus point maybe more.

I'd give him a 6 against Clermont and a 5 against Leicester.

My ratings being 7 - Good, 6 - Average, 5 - Below standard required

I think Ihumph is playing very well in spells. He's pulling out big plays which are putting us in the position to win games.

However he's backing this up by making critical errors at key times which are keeping the opposition in games and at worst costing us results.

Piennar should be taking the kicks this weekend though so should be alright on that front

Yeah I think Pienaar will make a big difference. I feel sorry for Marshall though because he has been one of our best players. The combination with him and IHumph just doesn't work though imo.

As I have said elsewhere we are being crucified because we have had no decision makers at 9,10,12 or 15 - although an honourable mention to Marshall who has done his best.

This is why Pienaer is so key and hopefully Tereblanche is a talker/decision maker as well. 2 out of 4 is better than 0 out of 4.

geoff998rugby wrote:As I have said elsewhere we are being crucified because we have had no decision makers at 9,10,12 or 15 - although an honourable mention to Marshall who has done his best.

This is why Pienaer is so key and hopefully Tereblanche is a talker/decision maker as well. 2 out of 4 is better than 0 out of 4.

Cannot agree more strongly with this.

Although to be honest to I haven't actually seen enough of Terblanche to make a full assessment.

I don't think any of us are in a position to assess fully what impact Terblanche may or may not have. The one thing for sure is he is a proper 15 so hopefully he can bring a wealth of experience to the back three in that position. It was obvious in Paynes first game that his organisational skills were right up there. I remember him organising Gilroy and Whitten at several set pieces and the young guys looked hungry to learn. Hopefully this is what Terblanche will bring to the table and when he leaves, be it in March or May, it will have been a worthwhile exercise.
Any of the young guys in the squad with aspirations should be hanging off this guys coat-tails while he is here.

So the coaches should ditch one of the better performing backs from the last game in favour of a guy just off the plane who doesn't know anybody's name much less their game and he himself hasn't been playing for a month?

If Terblanche starts it'll show the coaches haven't the first notion of what is wrong far less any idea of how to fix it.

I was tlaking generally about the impact of Terblanche over the three/six months he will be here.
I sincerely hope he isn't starting on Friday. He will be in the matchday squad though.

I have no issue with him being in the squad at all. specialist full back cover that can also cover centre.

I see Pienaar has come out publicly and said he is looking to extend his time with us (which geoff already mentioned i know). Nice to see he is well settled here anyway

Personally id like to see D'arcy start the game at 15, he had a pretty good outing against the Scarlets and is so dangerous with ball in hand. Terblanche for me should get the last 20 mins to show us what he can offer or if D'arcy isnt making a decent impact have him on before.
10 is the real dilema for us, we all saw last season how much better Humphs plays when Pienaar is at 9, but lately he has been making some key errors in games for Ulster. I still dont think Pienaar at 10 works as well as when he plays 9. I can see Brian starting Pirnaar at 9 and Humphs at 10, which is going to be harsh on Marshall but we need to win and to do so our best players have to be on the pitch!!!!

Will this be the strongest team we have yet been able to field? Pienaar, most of the Ireland boys (1F, Best, Trimble, Court), Muller, Afoa, Terblanch. Missing only Wallace and Payne. Maybe we'll start to see some of our considerable potential realised.

I think missing Wallace/Marshall/a 12 is a huge blow to Ulster. We will not be fielding our strongest team without one of these 2. Does this show we could do with signing another 12 perhaps?

Spence is considered our 2nd 12 and whitten is there aswell. We definitely do not need to sign any 12's

Don't you mean third after Marshall? Spence is not a good 12. Forgot about Whitten though *facepalm* I honestly would select Whitten over Spence if we persist on using him at 12. Whitten's strength is what Ulster are trying to use Spence for right now - crash ball. However he also has better hands.

Let's see what difference Pienaar makes. Arguably he may be more important to us than Paddy(?)

It's a shame Marshall has been injured - like others have mentioned, it would have been nice to give him a lash with Pienaar, iHumph and Cave on the pitch (and Payne, as well). Lots of experience to surround him with, rather than playing him with Jackson and P. Marshall.

Whitten and Cave looked a pretty good combination under He Who Must Not Be Named a couple of years ago.

No but at the start of the season Spence was preferred to marshall at 12. That sends a clear message to me. Either they didnt trust marshall and wouldnt risk him with the internationals out or they consider spence better than him in the position

True - that really bugged me actually. I remember being very annoyed about that. Marshall did not get enough gametime at the beginning of the season.

Well whats done is done. Spence showed glimpses of what he can do last week so i hope the coaches take note and use him in wider channels. Marshall will probably get gametime against Leinster fitness permitting

I think from what we have seen views have changed re the cover 12. I think it was Spence, I think that if fit and in the squad it would now be Marshall. The selection of Spence over Marshall, for 12, earlier in the season was dumb and shows up the conservatism I was complaining about yesterday.
One thing is for sure 12 is one position not even under the remotest consideration of getting an outsider in.


As for being ready well Afoa did alright being rushed here over 10/11 time zones - by comparison Tereblanch has just gone round the corner. He knows 2/3 players well and I have seen enough of him to know he is a class act. I don't know but I would be amazed if he was not a talker as well and our backs desperately need talking to.

As for Pienaer here is the latest quote -
"I've loved my time here, my future is being decided soon as there are a number of offers on the table but I'm really looking to extend my time here."

Has there ever been a more obvious come and get me plea.

The Great Aukster wrote:So the coaches should ditch one of the better performing backs from the last game in favour of a guy just off the plane who doesn't know anybody's name much less their game and he himself hasn't been playing for a month?

If Terblanche starts it'll show the coaches haven't the first notion of what is wrong far less any idea of how to fix it.

I agree Aukster.

Afoa straight of a plane did well

geoff998rugby wrote:Afoa straight of a plane did well

Absolutely.

Geoff I'm not a prop but to me scrummaging is scrummaging, the backline and particular back 3 have to play as a unit. There's no way Terblanche can possibly slot into our backline as cohesively as D'arcy just of the plane. He won't know the back moves or be familiar with the players around him.

He might be a great communicator but what is he going to communicate if he doesn't know our patterns of play and tactics?

geoff998rugby wrote:

As for Pienaer here is the latest quote -
"I've loved my time here, my future is being decided soon as there are a number of offers on the table but I'm really looking to extend my time here."

Has there ever been a more obvious come and get me plea.

I sincerely hope that Management don't feic this up and someone steps in and snaps this guy from under our noses!
Geoff is there any danger, though that the Goose will stop laying the golden eggs shortly?

The money issue we have is that Central Contract are being cut back both in number and in the case of some of the older players reduced.

This means the players will expect/hope the provinces pick up the slack.
Having said that I think Trimble, Ferris, Best will be unaffected.
So we are left with Paddy, possibly, losing his Central contract and Tom Court taking a pay cut.

Having said all that I don't think money is the main concern. I think it comes down to where do we want our, if rumours are true, 4 NIQ players for next year.
The club appear to be very worried that we could be very short in the back row. I believe that besides Muller and Afoa they have decided that we need 2 for the back row or the half backs.

Of course we already have two at the club - Pienaer and Wannenberg.
To consider alternatives to Wannenberg I understand - to not sign Pienaer would be madness

Have we considered signing Peter Stringer out of interest? It looks like his Munster days are numbered.